S01E11 - Dealing with Injuries

This week's episode is from Botox and Burpees Episode 1 Season 7. One of the most important topics we covered, we talk about the dreaded I word in sports and fitness - injuries. How to avoid injuries, how to deal with injuries, and actually how to get the most out of an injury.

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@crossfit #crossfit #fitness #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #crossfitgames #crossfitgames #clean #fitness #crossfit

TRANSCRIPT
Sam Rhee: [00:00:00]  Okay. So the next topic that, we should really cover is injuries, because I think that's one of the biggest things that people are scared of about CrossFit. It's, I've had my share of injuries. You've had your share of injuries. Yep. This is something that we should never shy away from talking about  and I think we should approach it head on. So tell me your thoughts about just straight up injuries and CrossFit. So 
David Syvertsen: [00:01:10] I think that anything you do at an intense rate repetitively over and over high volume is going to lead to. you being vulnerable to more injuries abs and let's take cross it out of it.
some of the worst injuries I've had have been from high volume running and believe it or not, like back when I was 21 to 25, that used to be my cardio fix. I had a three, I had a three and a half mile loop. I 
Sam Rhee: [00:01:37] can't believe it. 
David Syvertsen: [00:01:38] I had a three and a half mile loop from my house through Ridgewood, up through middle park Hills.
And I used to do it three to four times a week. And I went after it, like I did that loop and under 19 minutes, one time and I've never been, I remember being so happy about that, but, that was really like the worst my niece I've ever felt was when I ran a lot and it was just, it was too much and I probably don't run correctly.
Like I have a lot of people that tell me now. And I really don't run that much anymore calf and Achilles issues that will pop up and, w I didn't know, a cross. It was when I was running like that. So I think, but it was at an intense rate and I did it over and over, and it was high volume.
And, I think that, you can relate this to F 45 orange theory, CrossFit, your global gym. So when you're doing too many of the similar moving patterns over and over, and something is a little off, right? Whether it be your mobility, your stability, the quality of your movement. your midline stability, like you can't breathe.
a lot of this stuff is done with a high heart rate. You can't breathe well, so you can't stabilize your core, blah, blah, blah. You lose track of different, stability patterns with your joints that can lead to an injury. And it's usually not one lift or one workout that got you there. It was just the song.
if you picture a rope, like these ropes that are hanging in the gym right now, if you just cut one thread every single day, eventually it snaps. That's usually what happens with an injury, a serious one, right? Whether it be, a knee or shoulder or back. And, over the course of the years, like it can really start to bang you up a little bit.
And I do think crossing can get you hurt. I do. And I say that right now, I think running can get you hurt. The worst injury I've had over the past four years is planning out a football game with the guy from ISA. I was like, I literally thought I snapped my Achilles. Like I couldn't walk. And it was a calf injury, but it's not the football that hurt me.
I was training such high volume right at the time. Yeah. And, my calves are a wreck and anyway, but. A lot of what I did prior to that game is what heard it. That was just what kind of put it over the edge. So 
Sam Rhee: [00:03:32] now you've gotten so much smarter about dealing with this. And so what do you do? So the risk.
Okay. So it's not the injuries or the risk of injury is inevitable in any high intensity sport that you do for sure. And let's face it. CrossFit is. Something that lends itself to especially competitive individuals working in a group environment, they're, it's measurable and repeatable, so you're putting numbers up, right?
And so people will tend to push things maybe beyond what they think they should, they ought to. So what is it that now we can do to help that or mitigate it? 
David Syvertsen: [00:04:12] I'm going to, I'm going to quote, dr. John Hartman on this, but this makes so much sense to me. And he said this to me a long time ago. you can't burn the candle from both sides.
So what we mean by that is if you're, if you are going to come here and literally just put yourself through the blender every day, more power to you. if anything, I admire people that do that because it takes a lot of discipline to come in and work your butt off every day. 
Sam Rhee: [00:04:34] I love it. It just feels so great.
David Syvertsen: [00:04:36] It feels great. And you get the endorphins that come from it, but also like your fitness level, your capacity gets higher. You're like, I'm really impressed by people that do that. I really think it's admirable, but if you think. That your work is done. When you walk out of here, you will get hurt eventually because the amount of stuff that you do, the other 23 hours a day is going to impact whether or not you get a serious injury, like a muscle strain here and there, your wrist jammed up a little bit.
Like I jammed my wrist the other day, falling on the ground, let's not take that for what, you can tweak something walking down stairs. So I don't want to get into it, but I'm saying like the stuff that's really repetitive and causes like severe injuries. Almost always.
I think it's has more to do with your lifestyle outside of the gym than it does what you're doing here. if you sit at your desk nine hours a day, hunched over, and then you come in here and you half-assed the warmup every single day for two to three years, like I will bet money. On the fact that you're going to do something your shoulder I'll bet I'll put money on it.
All right. If you are the person that's like we're stretching and mobilizing, you're looking at the sky wondering when the one-off silver, so you can get your workout on, get your heart rate up. You're going to get hurt if you are eating foods that cause inflammation. If you're drinking every night, if you're constantly trying to impress yourself as you only sleep five hours a night, because you're, you're such a hard worker you're going to get hurt like your body.
Has a threshold. Yours is different than mine. Mine is different than what it used to be mindset for them in that persons. But you have to always be putting thought and effort into how to take care of your body so that when you do work out, you can actually maximize again, we bring up economics maximize that hour to bring your fitness to the next level.
But if you think that you can go eat Skittles and Starburst. After you work really hard here when your body's in a depleted state. Yeah. Good luck tomorrow. 
Sam Rhee: [00:06:24] you can, if you're 18, probably. 
David Syvertsen: [00:06:25] Yeah. Yeah. When you're 20, I like when I started that was like, Hey, go work out, get messed up, living in Hoboken.
But I'm really cognizant of what I'm eating after a workout because that is when my body's in the most depleted state. That's when your body's like begging for something, nutrients, protein, and. Very few times. Am I going to go have a bad unhealthy meal after I do that? And what's, what is the common thought behind working hard here?
I quote my brother, Aaron, I love him for saying this. He goes, dude, I do cross it so that I can eat whatever I want. 
Sam Rhee: [00:06:57] I can eat sun chips. 
David Syvertsen: [00:06:58] He loves sun chips and subway. like I, I really feel strongly about the people that are notoriously banged up and. It could have, there could be a lot of reasons behind it.
It could be like a lot of people you don't know their training age when they're training age to me is. What did they do from age 10 to 25? A lot of these people played sports in college and they train their butt off, like where you have some people who like never been to a gym before. So they have not beat up their joints. but for the most part, if you're coming here and you don't have a plan on what to do when you're out of here, that is going to cause the injury more than. The squat snatch, and how much mobility are you doing on your own? I'm busy. you know what I am too.
And I'll say this I'm probably busier than you are. I find time to do that. the accessory work, the sh the single limb work that, like this upcoming Thursday, we have the workout with all the single leg work. Like I can, I've been doing this for seven years. I can say this with confidence.
There's almost no energy on those days because it's boring. Yeah. But I'll tell you what, the more you do that, the less likely you're going to get hurt. If you put thought effort and energy into that, you will get hurt much less often. 
Sam Rhee: [00:08:08] I usually CA classify injuries into different categories. Like you said, there's the every day maybe I caught a clean badly and so my wrist is a little sore and those are the things that happen every day. For anything you could do that like at home, it's like a paper cut type thing. Like it just happens. And those you have to just chalk up to everyday life. Yeah. I think training age is very important. We have people who played football in college who, had a high rep type of a.
exertions like pitchers and so forth and, or who always have had chronic issues with something. And then they come here and that's something that is, a double-edged sword in the sense that those people I've known some of them, they actually got the rehab, their injuries, doing 
David Syvertsen: [00:08:52] all my CrossFit, 
Sam Rhee: [00:08:53] for sure.
I'm thinking of, the dude who can like. Lift crazy amounts above his head. 
He was, he had a crap ass back 
and he is now basically rehabbed it to the point where you never would've thought that he had a back injury. so I think, there are those athletes that you have to watch out for.
and listen, if you come with something like that, you're just gonna have to be super. We're careful 
David Syvertsen: [00:09:18] with that. 
Sam Rhee: [00:09:19] then there are the injuries that come, through CrossFit and I've had a couple where, You feel something. Yep. And you don't do it, something about it. And I think that's very common.
Yes. A lot of us enjoy working out. Like you said, put ourselves through the blender, maybe we feel a little something, I've done that in the back and 
David Syvertsen: [00:09:36] I'm like, Oh, 
Sam Rhee: [00:09:37] that feels a little tight. And then I'm like, Oh, but I can just, it's not so bad. So I'll just do it. I'll just finish it.
I'll finish the workout. And then I'll, and then, there's a workout I really want to do the next day. And then I'll do that. And pretty soon. and on top of it, I'm not doing the things outside the gym that I ought to be. And then pretty soon I wake up and I can't move like I am on my back is on fire.
I can barely get out of bed. It's hard for me to go to work. And suddenly I'm like, Oh man, this CrossFit thing. Yeah. and then, and then you do the PT and the MRI and all this stuff. And everyone's, I think a lot of us have gone through that and 100%, and then, and in my experience, as long as there's not anything structurally of issue. These are all issues that are completely avoidable. And when you say, what you do outside the gym matters, that's where outside the gym matters. they always say you don't get fit by being in the gym. You get fit by being in the gym. And then what you do after you recover 
David Syvertsen: [00:10:34] 23 hours versus one hour.
Sam Rhee: [00:10:35] And I think, 
David Syvertsen: [00:10:36] that's, it's frustrating from outside. Like I would say. That's one thing that's really weighed on me. 
Sam Rhee: [00:10:41] I hear that in your tone. 
David Syvertsen: [00:10:42] Yeah. Like I, I ever since I read this book, Adam and told me to read extreme ownership by Jocko and, there's a lot of good in there. The biggest thing that I got out of that book was whatever's going on wrong in your life is your fault.
Shut up about everything else. So I tried to relate that to myself as an athlete, but also as a coach or if you're someone that's like constantly hurt. Or someone that got hurt before you point the finger at something or someone make sure you did everything right. And I, I feel very strongly about the fact that it frustrates me to no end that it, the first reaction to something that going wrong is pointing the finger.
And I can tell you right now, issues that I've had, let's say like my calves and Achilles have been like my. No pun intended Achilles for so long. It's not because of anything other than the fact that I have not done enough work down there on my own. Like whenever I go to Hartman and I'm like, Hey man, this is an issue right now.
It's really bothering me. He goes, yeah. Have you been scraping your feet? The answer is always no. And that's something that always helps me is just like a little scraping my feet and taking care of myself. And then I'm like, Oh, I just don't have the time. I have a kid. I have the gym, blah, blah, blah.
But then I'm like, you know what? I watched football for four hours yesterday. I, at the time I chose not to do it, And. When I re when someone comes up to me and says man, I'm really, I can't get past this injuries. Like I that's, the first thing I want to say is, are you literally doing everything you could?
I took a food sensitivity tests. That's not cheap. And, I now know foods that really can cause a lot of inflammation. And when your inflammation, when you have inflammation, you feel tight, you feel like crap, you start compromising movement patterns, and then you hurt something. Yeah. And it's because I, didn't eat well that previous weekend, 
Sam Rhee: [00:12:28] I think people need to make those choices.
So you are a very high level. So there's a difference between fitness and sports competition. Yes. Sport. and somewhat, sometimes we blur that as, intense athletes who want to push ourselves. Because let's face it. We put, we push ourselves because we see the results that we're going to get better for sure.
But I also know now that if I did not do my best outside the gym, I shouldn't try to hit one 85, do one 85 shoulder to overhead. And I'm going to do one 65 or one 55. And I think that. there are some athletes in our gym who almost never get injured right now. it's hard to find that balance where you're still pushing yourself and challenging 
David Syvertsen: [00:13:17] yourself to straddle the line.
Sam Rhee: [00:13:19] And I think that comes with experience where, you're not just coasting, you're actually challenging yourself, but you're also not redlining to the point where, you know what I didn't do so great last night, this is what I need to do to avoid injury. And I think, Listen, this is part of the learning process in CrossFit as well, is figuring out where that boundary is for you.
Yep. And you might get burned a little bit on one side. If you touch that iron and it's too hot for you. Fine. But most of us will do that once or twice and then figure out where we need to, 
David Syvertsen: [00:13:51] and I'll tell you what, that's why I like the open for. Even from the majority of our gym is here for fitness, not for sport, yes, you have some people that don't know what they're here for. They're just, they want to be the best score on the board that day. And the rest of their lifestyle does not support a competitive lifestyle. So they ended up getting hurt. I like the open because you, we can say Hey guys, the six weeks leading up to, and during the open, let's make some personal sacrifices.
Let's say don't drink. Because it's going to cause inflammation, it's going to impact your recovery. It's going to impact your sleep and your sleep is the one you recover. All right. Let's say, you're gonna put it extra time. It's accessory work. Let's say you're going to watch one less episode of Netflix and do some mobility at home like that.
That's where I liked the open and how it re you know, especially the time of year. Now that they're putting it back February, March, it can really put you into this lifestyle of everything I do for the next six to eight weeks. Should support what I'm doing at the gym and six to eight weeks at a 52 weeks in the year.
Don't tell me it's a long time. Don't tell me it's hard. and I think I have had people do that in the past and I've helped them. I've guided them through that and I've seen them from watch what happens to their bodies and how they felt day to day. And that's when they were like, dude, I want to live like this all the time.
Not because my scores are good, but it was, my body feels good. And it's it's a, it's an all encompassing lifestyle. And again, we bring up the difference between CrossFit and other programs. there is no F 45 open. There is no orange theory open. And I, the open itself is a discussion for another time.
But I think it's important. To sum that up, that you find a pocket of time throughout the year. I don't care when it is. I like it being on the rip around the open, but it doesn't have to be where you really put six to eight weeks in of pure dedication to your health and fitness lifestyle and, see what you learn and see if it's a lifestyle that you like.
Sam Rhee: [00:15:42] I'd love that mainly because I'm. It's like an experiment with my body. So when I do that, I'm saying, and I tried that with all sorts of stuff. We did paleo for awhile and I was like, okay. So what happens to my body? If I do this, what happens if I, don't eat like crap and I do this, 
David Syvertsen: [00:15:59] but it's gotta be all in, Not this five days on 
Sam Rhee: [00:16:02] two days off crap. Yeah. And we've had challenges. Where, what is it? What happens if you drink? X amount of water, for, amount of 
David Syvertsen: [00:16:08] listening in the world. 
Sam Rhee: [00:16:09] And I will tell you that the fact that we, as a group are challenging ourselves in different ways to find what works for our body.
Is fantastic because we never experiment with our bodies. Our bodies are one of the most arguably the most important thing that we own. And yet we don't actually challenge ourselves in many ways to see what works. I will tell you that water challenge. Yeah. my wife drinks almost as much. She's so regular about it because she did.
And she's I like 
David Syvertsen: [00:16:42] how I feel. 
Sam Rhee: [00:16:43] I liked my performance. I like the way I look. I like my skin. I like all of this and the fact that, 
David Syvertsen: [00:16:48] And I'm not just saying this because you're here, but are there two people in our gym that have seen progress? Like you two, in my opinion, there aren't and it's little things like that you experimented with.
And you've that you're like, wow, this is actually working for me. This is not just like a textbook saying. And I wish more people could take that in because drinking water, it's not hard. It's simple. It's just you have to, it's gotta be on your mind all the time. 
Sam Rhee: [00:17:13] what's so funny is that I've heard this same concept echoed Andy stump recently as podcast.
He does the same thing now. And I was like, where did he get that idea? It's not a it's not, there's no copyright on the idea and the people who actually do it though, find real benefits. So the fact that people are. We are experimenting with ourselves and trying different things and being positive.
Makes and many of those changes stick with us. Yep. Makes us better. And that's the part that I really love and injuries are part of that when you have an injury and you're, trying to figure out like what works well, plantar, fascial, scraping works for you. I've tried, physical therapy.
This works for me, that works for me, yoga mobility. Like everyone has to experiment with their body because let's face it. None of us are going to be uninjured for the rest of our lives. 
David Syvertsen: [00:17:58] The worst thing you can do is ignore the outside the gym stuff and just you know what? I'm just gonna work harder when I get there again, admirable, I respect it.
That you'll come here and work hard, but that's, it's not good enough. And if anything, that will lead you to the injury, You have to think outside the box, right? 
Sam Rhee: [00:18:17] Yeah. I would say that every injury, I don't want to say they're good, but they've certainly gotten me to focus on my body in a way that I never did before that injury.
And I will say that, listen, some injuries are serious and structural and major issues, but, barring that. most and even listen, I've known people here who've had back surgery and they've taken that experience and spun it. Like you said, owner owned it. They've made it. They become better people in the sense that they know themselves better because of it.
David Syvertsen: [00:18:50] They had to go a few steps back and take the steps from, 
Sam Rhee: [00:18:53] and I would say, I bet you, if you asked doc, John Hartman, do you know your body now better than before you had all of these knee issue and. Like completely, he is. And not that you would wish that on anyone, but the fact that you go 
David Syvertsen: [00:19:06] through that expense part of life, 
Sam Rhee: [00:19:08] And all of us are going to get injured in some way, it could be a car accident. It could be some other, major medical issue, but your body's going to get hurt in some way. You don't know how, and if you don't know how to deal with it on some level, that's, if, or rather, if you are more in tune with your body, you're going to be able to deal with it in a much better way.
And what better way to. Figure out what that line is in the pursuit of fitness and getting better and getting healthier and getting stronger. And that's the part where I think, we're like, Oh, injury is bad. Yeah. yeah. But you know what? that's being human.
Yeah. Stress is bad 
David Syvertsen: [00:19:43] too, but you're going to go through it. You've gotta be able to cope with it. So the people I know in my life right now that don't know don't cope with stress well, and it's just always a dramatic event, it's because they. They haven't approached that stress the right way.
It was just like, Oh my gosh, I'm angry. I'm upset. I'm just going to throw my head through the wall. And I hope people feel bad for me instead of you just sitting there and be like, all right, what can I learn from this? What am I going to do if this happens again? I'm like right now I am prepared.
For the next time this happens or that I know exactly what I'm going to do. if you told me like, Dave, your cat, you're gonna hurt your cat tomorrow and you can't train for the legends comp for the next six weeks. You can't do any jumping or running. I already know I'm going to do it.
And that's because I've been through that before. And I still got fitter during those times of injuries 
Sam Rhee: [00:20:26] and conversely, you know what not to 
David Syvertsen: [00:20:29] do right. To get to that. I know my limitation 
Sam Rhee: [00:20:31] and you have gotten, and yet you can still fitness and get stronger and be better. And that's the other thing for me too, is I've learned how to.
as I've gotten older, I've not necessarily gotten my numbers have been so much better, but my recovery is better. So every workout I do, I know my injury risk of injury is a little bit less because I know how to recover from it better. Yep. 
David Syvertsen: [00:20:55] Maybe I should be the one to say this on your podcast because you probably won't, but you made the age online qualifier last year, lets men, you were one of the top 200 men in your age group age 50 to 54 in the world.
w with the sport of CrossFit. And if we're, if you want me to be honest about this, I think if that is, those are the fittest people in the world, the people that rank high in CrossFit, they're not the best runners. They're not the best lifters. They're not the strongest, they're not, but they are the fittest people in the world.
And you went from some guy that didn't know how to count wall balls and couldn't squat on wall balls, and couldn't hit the wall on wall balls to one of the 200 fittest people in your age group, in the world. And that's an accomplishment that. you really, you bled your way there because prior to that happening, I remember at old bison, at 59, you had a wrist issue.
You had a knee issue at the same time, every F in time you walked in through that back door to work out at 6:00 AM, like you were barely walking and you had tape, like you were going to a boxing match against Floyd Mayweather. Like I'm like, what is this guy doing here? But you took those experiences from being banged up.
And you adjusted, we had to adjust for you like a lot, but you still worked hard and you learn from it. And now and now look at you, you're the guy at the gym, dude, if I can look like that, when I'm in my fifties, I made it well it's because you did not let adversity take you off the track and you took that shit head on and now look at you, 
Sam Rhee: [00:22:21] I appreciate that. Yeah. I 
David Syvertsen: [00:22:23] have to say, send me a check 
Sam Rhee: [00:22:24] for that. I was about to say thanks for that endorsement. I will say, That took, a lot of guidance and role modeling, from you and from the gym. And right. And the only reason I got to where I was last year was the, the programming and the peaking right now that was really a blend of going from fitness to a sport for me.
And that was a unique experience. I will say this also. Is that's one of the reasons why I think CrossFit is so awesome is because it can take an athlete and take them from just fitnessing into knowing what it's like to be competitive for sure. And that's why, and we should talk about it some other time about competitions and all that, because these are the sort of experiences that.
I was never a particularly good ha high school athlete or had any, my training age is probably zero. If you wanted to look at it from, how many years I was a competitive about anything, but everyone should have that experience. And the fact that. me at age 50 can take, that experience and ride it.
It wasn't you're right. It wasn't easy. And it was extremely 
David Syvertsen: [00:23:33] through a lot of people on the outside don't 
Sam Rhee: [00:23:34] know what you want, on many levels. but that is, a special experience, that I think you can hang your hat on that, 
David Syvertsen: [00:23:41] man. you should be proud of that. I'll say it, you should be really proud of that because there are a lot of people that want to do that.
That didn't or couldn't or whatever reason, and I just think that's a huge accomplishment that took a lot of drive ambition, dedication, consistency, you name it. And, but you never would have experienced it. And like you're a successful guy outside of this place. And so it's not like you needed that for your self worth.
But you never would have experienced that. if you didn't put yourself in, only CrossFit 
Sam Rhee: [00:24:11] could have given me that experience, that's a good way to do it. There's no other sport out there that I would have that would have allowed me to try to push as much as I did. And, it's one of those things.
And that's why I do think about injury a lot because when you do run that, when you max out like that, it's exhilarating because you're pushing so hard. 
David Syvertsen: [00:24:27] Yeah. You're finding your boundaries 
Sam Rhee: [00:24:28] and, and to have to also understand what it's like, To mitigate injury and avoid it. Yep. I got so much better at it.
And, yeah. And I think all the things that you said about taking ownership of it, doing everything that you need to do outside of the gym is, it's vital. 
David Syvertsen: [00:24:45] It's vital. It's not important. It's vital 
Sam Rhee: [00:24:47] and forget if you're a competitive athlete or if you're just living your life, that's something that you need to do every day.
David Syvertsen: [00:24:53] Yes, absolutely. 
Sam Rhee: [00:24:55] That's awesome.