S01E16 - Body Image vs Performance

Our next episode is a discussion about athletes who focus on body image versus athletes who focus on performance in the gym. Are your goals to look good or to perform well? We discuss the pros and cons of each, and how they compatible or incompatible these goals are with each other.

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S01E16 BODY IMAGE VS PERFORMANCE TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: All right. Welcome back to the HerdFit podcast. I am coach David Syvertsen. I am here with Dr. Sam Rhee. We have a very interesting topic today. One that I think most people kind of struggle with. More often than they'll probably admit publicly. The, and that is the battle between your body image and performance when it comes to exercise and working out.

I've talked to a lot of people about my goals. I know my I've talked to a lot of people about their goals. I know my own goals, and I do think everyone has a mix of both, they, especially within CrossFit, but even for those that are listening, that don't do CrossFit. I have a couple of cousins that listen that don't do CrossFit.

That's why I said that. I'm like, why do they don't all have to be about cross it. But I do think a lot of people work out because they want to look a certain way and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yeah.

[00:00:48] Sam Rhee: All of us do to a certain degree, and I think I like this topic because there's so much to unpack in this one. I bet you will hit different aspects of it in the future as well. But boy, I mean self-esteem body image, confidence, confidence. Performance.

[00:01:04] David Syvertsen: Yeah. I remember thinking like, well, I think I started working out for that reason. Right. Like when I first started to like really work out, I think I was 19, 19 years old and I just, I wanted to look different.

[00:01:16] Sam Rhee: I think every high school boy who starts working out. Yeah.

[00:01:19] David Syvertsen: That's the reason for sure. Yeah. You get that, you know, they get that first bicep chest pump after, after chest and biceps day, like am nice. But I. A w we have to make sure before we really dive into the weeds on this, that neither one of us really have negative thoughts towards either one.

We're not judging anyone that is simply here just wants to look good. You know, if that's the only reason you work out more power to you if you're only here to work out because you want to perform a certain way, nothing wrong with that.

[00:01:47] Sam Rhee: Absolutely not. I think If you look at athletes in general, I was just thinking about it.

You know, for example, Serena Williams or Tom Brady, do you think their self image is based on how they look or what their athletic performance is? Right? It's on their athletic performance 100%. And you know, and then there are, there are tons of other athletes out there. You have to look good in order to to feel good about yourself.

Right. But the good thing is, is that CrossFit allow me as you to do both at the yeah.

[00:02:13] David Syvertsen: And I think a lot of exercise programs do and I want to get, what is body image? Like, what are we talking about? Like what is looking good? Because at the end of the day, it's a very subjective term and that's what I'm going to kind of get into later in terms of how dangerous this can get.

But I hope. You know, we can all be on the same page, that body image and looking good versus looking bad is what you think of yourself. You know, what do you want? Is it low body fat? Is it big muscles? Like I know a lot of guys, especially that they don't want to be cut up. They want to just be. They want to have, like, they want their shoulders, big, their chest big they're their, you know, their quads and hamstrings to be huge.

Like they don't really care about how many ads you can see when you take off the shirt where I also know some guys that are the complete opposite. They don't want to get too big. And I know a lot of women, they don't want to get too big, but they want to look lean.

[00:02:59] Sam Rhee: I think, you know, I do a lot of on-ramping for beginners.

And I think one of the most interesting things is asking people, you know, athletes, why are they looking to start CrossFit? Right. I think it's for both reasons. I think there are a lot of people who say, I don't like my gut. I don't like, you know, the way I look, I look doughy. Right. Then there are others who are like, I used to be a really good athlete.

Right. I used to perform really well. Now I don't.

[00:03:27] David Syvertsen: Yeah, they're used to hitting certain metrics. Like whether it's on the football field, baseball field, the softball field, like they're used to performing at a certain level that makes them feel good or they get attention for it. And I think that that's one of the draw.

That's what I really mean about performance. When you are exercising for performance, especially at a place like CrossFit, especially at a place where they write down your results on a whiteboard every day for the entire world to see. That's where they they're drawn to that because if they work hard and do well, you know, they see compared to other people they're doing really well.

I think

[00:04:04] Sam Rhee: the good thing is, is that CrossFit is unique as an exercise, modality, that and PR and performance modality, where we can look at both things. Like, for example, if you're a powerless. Most of them are not particularly involved with aesthetics. Right. It's mostly functioned, right? How much can you dead lift bench?

[00:04:25] David Syvertsen: And I do think a lot of them are proud of how they look.

[00:04:27] Sam Rhee: Well, they. But that look is shows that they can perform, right. The performance drives the look, right. And then there are, and then if you look at the other end with bodybuilding, it's all about a certain aesthetic, but it doesn't, they don't really care what their performance is in the gym.

Right. It's just how developed do these certain muscles look? Yes, but in CrossFit we have the luxury of being able to. Be functional. Yes. Perform go for scores, but it makes us

[00:04:58] David Syvertsen: look. Yes. Good. Yes. Yeah. I know. I always some friends and family that I have outside of bison, they just do stuff on Instagram.

You know, when they see people from our agenda, like who are these people? You know? And it's like, a lot of them are pictures, so they don't even see the performance aspect. They might see a heavy barbell or, you know, someone on top of a pull-up bar, like, how'd you get up there? Did you jump? Like now they pulled themselves up there, but they it's the look, they look amazing, but they're also performing these outstanding feats of, of fitness that, you know, to be honest, most people can not do.

[00:05:32] Sam Rhee: And I think also the aesthetic is changing. And the stereotype of CrossFit is because there are a lot of women who think CrossFit looks bulky, blah, blah, blah. But then now you look at these games, athletes, and you look at a Haley Adams, right? Is she bulky?

[00:05:44] David Syvertsen: Yeah. No,

[00:05:45] Sam Rhee: she's not bulky

at all. She's skinny. Yeah.

[00:05:47] David Syvertsen: If you saw her walking down the street in New York city with fully clothed and everything, right. You wouldn't think anything about bulk, right? So when even cross your mind, right.

[00:05:55] Sam Rhee: So. I think, you know, the more people learn about CrossFit, the more we see these athletes, the more we see that some of the stereotypes about body image are not true.

[00:06:05] David Syvertsen: Right. So I do think that. We should talk about some of the dangers of chasing after bought a certain look or a certain body image, and also the dangers of chasing after performance. I think there's pros and cons to both. And I think that you guys can realize right now that Sam and I are kind of on the same page that cross, it does allow for the pursuit of both simultaneously.

But I do think. If you really put someone into the corner and said like, all right, pick one, which do you care more about? You'll have everyone has one way they lean more towards. Absolutely. All right. And again, I'm going to say this the second time. There's nothing that's right or wrong about either one of them, but I do think we should just have a conversation.

Yeah. Some of the negatives that can come from chasing after body image, in some of the negatives that can come after a performance and then we'll get into the positives. You know, let's give him mine. I'm talking to a plastic surgeon right here and I'm talking to an athlete, a meathead. Yeah. Again, I think this is a good topic for a seminar to discuss one of the dangers I have for chasing body image.

And I'll be honest with that. This I I've I've struggled with this in the past and I've gotten past this as I've gotten deeper to the sports. So this is more like pre cross it, but. I was, I was chasing after very superficial gratification that I thought I would get from other people. Right. Like you walk into a room or you go somewhere and it's like, oh, you look amazing.

Like that made you feel good. Right? Like that. The second you got that feeling from someone, or you felt like someone was like a girl was checking you out, even though she probably wasn't. Probably not. Probably not, but you know, you, you start putting a lot of thought and energy into that. Like how do you look?

You know, if if you take your shirt off, how do you, like, you know, we can probably get into a funny conversation about that, but that, that's what I. For a long time, I would say from like age 18 to 23, before I really got into performance related CrossFit. That was that, that I think that drove me

too much.

I think it drives everybody. And I think no matter how old you are validation from others particularly about how you look. Is always in the back of your mind. There are very few people I can think of that truly do not get that little dopamine hit or, or that feeling when someone compliments you on your looks, right.

What is social media for most people, it's posting a body image and getting likes because of it. Right? So there's no doubt that. And there's nothing wrong with it. Like we're, we're built to be human. We're built to socially interact. And we, we like praise and, and a lot of praise is often directed towards our physical appearance.

It can be extremely negative if you start. Overvaluing it right. Or changing what you do because of it in, in some self defeatist or negative ways. Right. But you know, how deep have people gone down that rabbit hole of just because they cared about something that means

nothing. And I. The, I hope that everyone gets us at some point.

Like, I, I do think we've put so much thought and energy into what others think that at the end of the day, I really, I do strongly believe most people don't really care that much about how good or how bad you look. They might notice it, but you're the one that's going home and thinking about it all night, where the people.

You're stressing about, do they think I look good? Do I think that they thought about it for about seven seconds and then they went on to their own

[00:09:38] Sam Rhee: life. I mean, listen, I choose clothes that I think, make me look good. And, but, you know, and, and so, and people do things. In their behavior to make themselves look good for others.

Right. But how far do you take that? Where you're chasing that? What you called it superficial gratification, right? That ultimately is not helping you. Right? I think most of us have to take a good look at ourselves and say, okay, we do care about ourselves. We do care about what others think of us and how we look.

How far down that rabbit hole, are we going? Yeah. And

[00:10:13] David Syvertsen: I think that it's hard to, to self answer that, right? Like I think it helps to have some people in your life that whether they're friends, family, training, partners, coaches, people, that aren't going to be overly biased towards or against you to just be honest about, like, I think it's a good conversation to have, you know, and it's an uncomfortable conversation to have, you know, like if I, if I've asked Sam this several times and I've always said this, I have a unique friendship was saying.

You know, where I do feel like we can be very honest with each other, even to the point where one of us kind of gets annoyed at that, at that initial answer. But we know that we're both there for each other and the intentions are to help you out. And I've had Sam say a few things to me over the past years, like.

I'll I'll ask them a tough question that is uncomfortable, probably him for, to answer. And I think it's important to have someone in your life, right? Am I, am I overdoing this right now? I

[00:11:00] Sam Rhee: wonder how many times he gotten annoyed by my,

[00:11:03] David Syvertsen: by the way you say that the next time.

[00:11:07] Sam Rhee: But you're right. You're right.

And,

[00:11:08] David Syvertsen: and having real people in your life, having real people in your life, I think is really important because I, I see this all the time at bison all the time. And I'm telling you, when I say all the time I could ever. Is, I think people get so judgmental of themselves, like when they're in a mindset, Where they feel like they look good.

They come in, they're smiling. They warm up, they take the warm up seriously. They're in tune with what? The coaches, they work hard. They move well. They're given high fives after class. I'm like, and that's like ideal, right? When they're not happy with themselves because they're, they're up five pounds. They went on vacation, they gain five, 10 pounds.

They feel fluffy. They, they log. Low energy, negative mindset. They don't say hi to anybody. They don't warm up that well, they don't try that hard and they get hurt. And then it's all of a sudden, they go down to this again, like you said, a rabbit hole where everything around them is negative and it's simply because they just feel like a little fluffy or they're, you know, they don't want.

Where a certain thing or do a certain movement because it makes them like, you know, when I see, I don't want to get too personal with people, but like, I'm not going to go to the internet. I'm not going to go there, but like the, the, there are, yes, there are ways that people carry themselves very different.

When I know that they're lacking confidence. And I think at the end of the day, it's I want the almost go to that person and say like, Hey. No, one's looking at you, right? They're all, they're all working out. You know, like let's not keep like tucking your shirt in case someone might see the bottom of your stomach.

And you know, when you go upside down, like nobody's looking, dude, you know, like, it's okay if you put a little weight on just, but I think if, if how you look as changing, how you work out and then it's changing how you act when you go home and you have to make that food decision, I think that's when you know, being chasing after body image is a really

[00:13:00] Sam Rhee: dangerous thing.

Good point. Yep. I would agree with.

[00:13:03] David Syvertsen: So the last thing I'll say negative of body images, fake results. And I'm going to say funny. So I did a actually want to do an episode on this one. At one point I did, I'm not a huge like juice cleanse guy, but I have a coach now and he told me to do a cleanse because I had some, just had some physical, mental issues last spring.

And I did a S a five day cleanse and our detox, where if you want to call it where I didn't eat for five days and. Other than just like this, like sear that you put in water and I've had a few people do it from here and it was more about getting some inflammation out of my system. De-stressing my body and sleeping better, all that good stuff.

Right. And it helped. And I lost 16 pounds in five days, which is a lot. And then it's not a weight loss gimmick, you gain eight back the second day you're eating. So don't, don't go down that path. But. I remember how like looking in the mirror after those days, I'm like, holy crap. Like, I look like ripped right now.

I haven't looked that ripped. I think in, since I don't even know when maybe ever. That's not a real result, right? If I was like obsessed with wanting to look that way, I'd be like, dude, I'm going to do this all the time. As miserable as it is to not eat for five days straight. If I really cared that much about my body image, which I don't, I care about performance.

I did this to help my performance and it did kickstart some good performance for myself. That that's a dangerous thing. That's why I don't really push these. Like, don't eat cleanses on some people because you are honestly, you're going to. You're going to see a lower number on the scale, but is that a real result?

[00:14:40] Sam Rhee: That is a very light version of what some people go through in terms of. How they mismanaged their body, how they mistreated, you can go all the way down eating disorders.

[00:14:52] David Syvertsen: Yes. I mean, I could see where an eating disorder can, can

[00:14:55] Sam Rhee: start from. Right. Right. Because if you saw a little bit of a result from something that you did, right.

Wow. Doing so much more of it, right. Must be better. Right. Like I'm going to the beach

[00:15:04] David Syvertsen: next week. I'm not going to eat this way. You know, like it's, you're really not supposed to do those, those things that much, like you could a 24 hour fasting, 36 hour fast, and you can do that every week, but it's not for the sake of looking

[00:15:15] Sam Rhee: better.

And, and so you have to realize when these behaviors become detrimental. Yeah. But that's where our rational side has to come up. Because our animal brain will say, oh, I look better. Right. The must do more. Right. Right, right. And you have to think about it and say, listen, this is

[00:15:33] David Syvertsen: clearly not healthy.

Having good people in your life. No, you trust you, you trust. And we'll be honest with you. You know, I think that's one of the biggest missing components to friendships and healthy relationships is hard. Honesty stuff you

[00:15:46] Sam Rhee: don't want to hear and support. They, you know, that if you know that people. I think you're great and you look great and they can be honest with you about that.

And you believe them. That that means a lot.

[00:16:00] David Syvertsen: I agree dangerous of, of chasing after performance or over chasing performance. I think this is more common in cross it, but tell me if I'm wrong. W when you're only chasing after performance, Yeah, I think it, it usually leads to over-training and what over-training leads to essentially injury.

[00:16:19] Sam Rhee: I think, well, if I say you're wrong, well, you get annoyed with me. So I think one of the things that I see about CrossFit athletes I don't want to say it's an addiction, but working out brings a lot of joy to people and being able to perform at a high level brings a lot of joy to people. And I can think of a couple of 6:00 AM MERS who freaking.

It's so hard for them not to work out. Yeah. And so they will come rain or shine. To perform because they know they can perform and they will push it past whatever morning signs they might see. And

[00:16:57] David Syvertsen: I've done that

[00:16:58] Sam Rhee: several times and at that. And so have I, and at that point, you, you take a small thing and you make it a big thing.

Yes. And I think we all get burned several times before we realize. How to deal with it.

[00:17:12] David Syvertsen: Yeah. I strongly agree with that. I didn't know that especially morning people, you know, and those are our biggest classes. Right. And I think, again for you anti CrossFitters, that haven't seen the light yet. You know, most, most fitness classes are busier in the morning than they are at night.

And I think part of that is routine kids jobs, but I also think it's a great way to start your day. If it's something that kind of gives you like a boom. And confidence. So if you're a performer, right, you're here for performance. You want to get after it. It makes you feel good. When you go out and destroy a wad where, you know, if you're competitive and you're beating other people in the class, or you PR something, or you do movements that you used to not be able to do.

And you're kind of really getting after it, it makes you feel good. And for the rest of the day, whether you love or hate your job, it's almost like the rest of the day never can be that bad because you started. In a really, you know, accomplished manner. You know,

[00:18:02] Sam Rhee: I have a perfect example for you. I just told you about it this past week.

The workout with the overhead squats run a row. Yes. And I had tweaked my left calf last week and I was taking it easy. It was, it was getting better. And but I know. That sort of combo, you know, doesn't necessarily make it feel great. So, but I really wanted to do this workout because I'm pretty good at overhead squats.

Right. So I did the workout. I'm very, very good at over at

[00:18:32] David Syvertsen: squats. I appreciate

[00:18:34] Sam Rhee: it. So. Yeah. So yeah, I was leaning into my strengths, not working on my weaknesses. Let's put it that way. So I was working out late with Jason great athlete. He's getting better every year, cause I drop in on quietly to, oh my God.

So he's like stealth, but you know, I drop in on the eight, 15:00 PM class every so often where he, you know, he's a fixture and it's just you know, basically the two of us and athlete and I start the run and I I'm pushing off my left foot and I feel that left calf tighten up again. And I'm like, oh man.

And I was like, okay. So the smart thing to do would be to walk back in, set a run. Yeah. Sub in the bike instead of the run. And I said, well, first of all, then I will not be able to compare my score to Jason. I will. I know I can beat him on this. I started slow on the first round, but it was. Four rounds. And I said, yeah, and five, a certified knife, four, four.

And I said, you know what? I know I'm going to be able to beat them at the end because I can do the heavier overhead squats. So I basically heel ran. Yes.

[00:19:39] David Syvertsen: So many times I've had Catholics

[00:19:41] Sam Rhee: on the four hundreds. And, and, and I just so that I could one beat him to say that I could finish the workout. Cause I really wanted to finish under time cap.

I did, I did both. I beat and Jason's like, good job. He went home next day. He's working out next day. I'm like,

[00:19:58] David Syvertsen: I can't work out two straight days off, two days off.

[00:20:02] Sam Rhee: And so I basically classic example of dangers of performance.

[00:20:08] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Yeah. Mean my next two points were doing things you can't handle or recover from.

All right. I'm going to get that in a little bit, but also just becoming too competitive if you're only here for performance. Right. And that's, those are, that's an example of both happening at once. What I mean, doing things you can't handle or recover from, I think right now, I think people need to know that doing a workout RX or going after a workout.

That's fine. But if you can't recover. Like, if you have a weekly plan to work out Wednesday, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. All right. If you go after this workout on Tuesday. Crush it really hard. You're really sore, but you're so sore that you can't work out Thursday even after your rest day, Wednesday.

That means that's not a good job. Agree. All right. So now, and we can both say that we've done this several times. There's people in our agenda to do this all the time is it seems to me they're not looking at it from a weak perspective. They just want to go after it hard today. And something happens because they did that and they can't work out for three days.

You know, so even though you crushed the workout, it doesn't matter because you didn't recover from it. Recovery is part of the workout. I think we, we need to kind of accept that recovery is part of your workout. If your recovery does not occur to the point where you can't work out. You know, you need to change things, you know, and,

[00:21:30] Sam Rhee: and you know what, listen, we have both said multiple times, we're guilty of the same thing.

We're not telling people, or we're never

[00:21:38] David Syvertsen: talking down to anybody

[00:21:39] Sam Rhee: like weed. I'm still just this past week. I'm still doing the same thing. Yeah. It's, it's a hard lesson that I have to keep trying to beat into myself, which

[00:21:48] David Syvertsen: is why we're talking about it. Yeah. And I think it's going to, again, why did we start the podcast?

Help people out so many at ourselves, especially ourselves. All right. Anyway. So now let's get into, let's get away from all this negative crap. Okay. The positives of changing after body image, there's a lot. And I think there's maybe even more than performance. I have one of the biggest things let's talk about.

This is just increased confidence. And if you're happy with how you look or you think you're your. If you're happy that you're on the right path, looking the way you want to look. Right. Like if I ever chase after, look my, I just want to look like I work out, you know, like I don't don't need to be the biggest don't need to be the leanest.

Don't need to have the lowest body fat. I just always, I always want to look like, all right, that guy works out. You're fit. Yeah. And part of that. And it's, I know it's the industry I'm in, I'm in the gym industry. So I always feel like it's ultra important. If you're going to be in the gym industry, you need to look like you work out.

Like I hate, you know, w when, you know, someone's really in the fitness industry and they look like they've never done anything in their entire life. I just don't get it. And. It makes me more confident. Day-to-day like I, Brian, the Carlo told me Brian DiCarlo is one of the very few people in the shin that have known me since I was in elementary school.

And he knew me. We put sports together, junior high, high school. We knew, you know, captain shots a little bit after high school, not a lot. And now he works here and he goes like, you are so different than you were in high school. Oh,

[00:23:13] Sam Rhee: you are certainly the best version of yourself now than any pictures I've ever seen.

[00:23:17] David Syvertsen: Yeah. And it's, and it's, and it, and a big part of it is, you know, older getting mature, caring less about what other people think, blah, blah, blah. But it, it, part of it is like, I'll be honest with you. It's how I, I feel like I look better. And it's, I, I look more, I look healthier, I look fitter and, you know, I, I don't want to say that's been my fueled, my fire, but it's definitely a part of the equation and increase confidence.

I always want, I want people to be as confident as possible. I really do. Yes. There are people that are overconfident. I'd rather deal with that than someone that's not confident enough, I

[00:23:50] Sam Rhee: would say most. So the first thing is, is that, you know, I can relate to you in terms of, you said being in the fitness industry and looking fit, right?

Like, I will say that as a plastic surgeon looking fit yeah. Establishes way more legitimacy to, when I talk to people about body contouring or how they look right then before, and I've had a couple people say, Yeah. I saw someone else and they were really like unhealthy and they looked disheveled and they'll say, okay, I'll do liposuction on you.

And they're like, Hmm, like interesting. It's a little weird. Yeah. So the the other thing is, is having more confidence about yourself is extremely important. And I will tell you I don't, I don't blow smoke up people's butts, but yeah, I do often make it a point when I see someone who has made a lot of improvement in the gym to go out of my way and tell them so, right.

Because honestly, When other people, like we talked about other people noticing. Yeah. When someone does notice that you've made a lot of progress, it can be very uplifting. Yeah. Especially when you put the time in every day and you don't sh you know, that, you know, maybe you don't see the progress for yourself as much.

Right. When you do get someone who says, listen, you, you look

[00:25:05] David Syvertsen: great. Yeah. Like what have you been doing? Like what, like what have you changed

[00:25:08] Sam Rhee: exactly. That that can be one of the biggest ones. You can have, that's a good point. Yeah. And, and having that increased confidence and knowing that you are perceived as looking fit, right.

Allows you to feel confident in what you wear, how you act, even how you carry yourself. I would say, interact with other people, how you interact with other people. I will say one of the things I love about our gym and our athletes is. I mean not to brag, but I think they carry themselves differently.

I think they feel more comfortable about their bodies and not because half of them were like barely any clothing. I think they just, they just are very comfortable with their bodies and, and being able to feel confident about how you look

[00:25:53] David Syvertsen: it does, it can usually does bring out the best it projects. Well, yeah.

Now another thing that comes from chasing after body image, I actually think. You know, when you see, when it comes to your diet, if you're really chasing after a look, you know, and we have to keep in mind the sensitivity of like eating disorders and starving yourself. Like the, what I talked to you guys about when I did that five day detox, you know that aside.

Okay. I think that if you're really chasing after it, look, it probably makes you put a lot more attention. On eating rights, because you can, we've talked about all time. You can be the hardest worker here for an hour, a day and come every day. But if you don't do stuff well outside the gym, you won't, you will not see it in your look.

And I think that if someone really wants to look a certain way, they want to be lean. They want to look at what their shirt off or the famous line that I hate is I want to look good naked, but if you do. You know, you're you have to eat well outside the gym. Yeah.

[00:26:51] Sam Rhee: I mean, I remember it was interesting. I read an article about these fitness models and how they live their life.

And they said before, shoot, if I go, I, I can't drink alcohol or I can't go on a, on a weekend vendor. I can't eat, you know, I really severely limit my diet to healthy stuff. And when you're a fitness model, it's not like a regular model. Like you have to. Really healthy, like a ton of protein that you have to eat, eat.

Yeah. Like you have to eat real food and real quantities and you know what, like zone style type of eating. And, and when I read that, I said, these guys They worry about what they're doing in the gym, but before shoots, they really focus on what they're doing outside the gym. Right. And if those professionals have to do that well, then, you know, that's just a small part of what we have to do on a daily life.

And if listen, if you want to go on a weekend bender, that's, that's great. But just know, you know, you do that every weekend or more often than not like it's going to add up. You shouldn't think that your body's going to look as awesome as it could

[00:27:53] David Syvertsen: agreed. Last one on the positives of body image. I actually think that when you're really looking at body image, I think it's going to help you recover day-to-day and.

I'll tell you what I mean by that. I think it's, you're going to be putting a little bit more attention on your diet. Like we just said, and a lot of attention on your diet does help recovery. But I also think with like what you're doing exercise wise, right? Like if you are only chasing after a look, now you, do you want some longer, we've talked about this Sam in regard to performance, but I also think it helps a lot of body image.

Longer endurance type workouts, where you're burning calories for a long time. You're not going through one minute spurts and then a four minute rest AK like a heavy lifting session. Right? I think when you are moving your body for a long time, you're circulating a lot of blood. It's going to help increase, you know, the, the outlook of your body from, from a, you know, from that superficial perspective, rather than.

You know, just trying to go hard for two minutes, breathe really heavy, get the heart up to 1 95 and then come back down. I think what it can do is it's going to open the door to that kind of fitness where you can, there are so many benefits to long slow workouts, especially if you're across it or because you don't do them in classes that

[00:29:04] Sam Rhee: often I think a good example is Matt Frazier.

So he had, you know, when he won his five CrossFit games, champion ships, he. Look the way he did, because he wasn't comparing, he didn't care so much about his body image. He was, he was training for performance, eating for performance. Yep. Working out for performance. Now that he's quit, if you've ever saw his Instagram.

Yeah. He looks more ripped. Yeah. More defined. He actually hit a PR on his deadlift because he doesn't have to worry about. 15 other metrics that he, you know, that he has to chase, he can just focus on it. He can just focus on whatever he wants to. And a lot of it right now is, and so he's probably, if you asked him healthier now than he ever was chasing his five championships.

And not that you know, we should try to be Matt Frazier, but it, it, when you are focusing on your health for your body image, that's completely different than Performance like for you, for, for Matt Frazier to get to where he was, he sacrificed a lot. And didn't give one wit about,

[00:30:10] David Syvertsen: yeah. And it's we all we've said this before the, the further into the sport, you get the further away from health you're getting that's.

Exactly. And I think you need to, everyone needs to kind of keep that in front of their head. Positives of chasing after performance. One thing I like about chasing out the performance is in my opinion. All right. It's the results are much more objective. You know, we can talk about Matt Frazier P getting a deadlift PR, right?

That's an objective. I hit a PR H I've never done this before. And fitness to me is always, what can you do with your body fitness to me is not what you look like. And I think what you look like can be a positive bullet point under what, what you're actually doing, but because w you know, all the stuff that is encompassing.

Pursuing performance. But if someone hits a PR, whether it be a time and a workout or a weight on a lift, that is again, a confidence booster, it's an objective result that nobody can argue against because I'll tell you what, there are people that probably think they look good that there's someone out there that probably doesn't think they look good.

Right. And so it's subjective. I just think like looking good is very subjective where. APR is as objective as you can get.

[00:31:25] Sam Rhee: Yes. I think from a self-esteem standpoint, it's so much easier to say I hit 300 pounds on my back squat. Yeah. And therefore I am a performer, you know, I am performing, I am an athlete.

I am a strong person and those are. Metrics that I think almost all of us in the gym look at, right. We base our self-esteem on how fast was our Fran time? How fast was it compared to so-and-so right. Did you

[00:31:53] David Syvertsen: qualify for this? Did

[00:31:54] Sam Rhee: you qualify for that? Right. And that's a lot. It's true. You, you can work on those.

And it's a lot clearer than do I look better than I did a year ago? Do I look better than that person? Yeah. How many compliments am I supposed to be getting about my look? Yeah. And I do enjoy getting objective results. I think it does. It does play a big role in terms of how I look at myself and my self-esteem.

I was, I was thinking about this. I was going to ask you a question. But I mean, there are, there are some limits to both. So for example, I was going to ask you a theoretic, so yeah, if you could hit a 300 pound snatch, but it meant adding three or four inches of fat on your waist at that time. Three or four inches a lot.

Okay. All right. What are two would you do

[00:32:37] David Syvertsen: it right now? Yeah, right now I would bring a hundred pounds a lot. Not a gut, like a little gut. Yeah, I think so. I mean, Can I ask a question? Yeah. Did I lose any muscle ups? You know, did I lose no other performance?

[00:32:49] Sam Rhee: You just look a little crappier and you're

[00:32:51] David Syvertsen: good.

I would right now for what I'm trying to pursue, I would, because especially the snatch, like that's like something that's holding me back so far. Right. But I'll say once I'm done competing and I've talked to Ashley. Yeah, I, the thing is I'm a little different in that. Not better or worse, I'm just like, I really want to qualify for things.

You're very performance focused. I am 100% performance focused, but I might be done with that next year. Like we've, I've had discussions with Ash about that. Like I I'm, I'm all in right now in a year until the end of next year is online qualifier. You know, I think she's looking forward to the day where like, Hey, just going to work out at the class once a day, five days a week.

And that's it, you know, none of this like plan around this plan around that going early this time, going back at this time. And at that point, I probably would not.

[00:33:36] Sam Rhee: So it's funny because I think it would be a good litmus question to ask a lot of athletes. Like, that's a good question. Would you drop 75 pounds on your heaviest lift?

If you could

[00:33:44] David Syvertsen: lose and honestly, And when I see what people say when I'm done competing, I think that's a great question, Sam. I really do. But I'll say this, if I'm not trying to qualify for like the highest level in the sport, then I would say I'd rather. Lose some off my snatch and my muscle-ups and maybe be a little slower and, and, you know, feel a little better.

Look a little better. I

[00:34:04] Sam Rhee: think half the, the gym

[00:34:06] David Syvertsen: would still always want to be able to kick your ass though. That's the thing. Well, that's,

[00:34:09] Sam Rhee: that's a given dude. I'm 20 years older than

[00:34:11] David Syvertsen: your age is the number.

[00:34:14] Sam Rhee: I would say half the gym, my guess would be half the gym would trade some performance. First that for a bit body image, great question.

And half would trade. You know, vice versa. Yeah. Like I, I think it'd be interesting to see which ones would trade, which

[00:34:27] David Syvertsen: for which it would. And honestly, like it could even, that could even shift some of our programming. Right. Like right now I do, I will say the programming at bison is more performance centered than it is aesthetics.

And I know that bothers some people. Right. You know, like see some people doing like add mat sit-ups after every class, like that's going to help, but anyway,

just kidding. But you know, I, there is a lot of truth to bodybuilding and it can help performance, big time and safety and safety. But I think a lot of people want some extra bodybuilding work for the sake of just looking better and not feeling that they're going to die after a workout. And, you know, I do think it's something that, you know, you just saying that right now, it makes me want to kind of ask some people that like, would you sacrifice some performance if you look better and you keep it anonymous too, if people are too embarrassed for the answer.

[00:35:13] Sam Rhee: I know. I think I think the programming for. 90 foot, 90 to 95% of our athletes. Is perfectly fine for their aesthetics, right? Yeah. I agree. I think there's probably maybe 10% of athletes out there who feel like they need different programs, slightly different. Yeah. But they're already, hyper-focused on certain aspects of what's going on in their life for the, for the rest of us.

Like just being able to come in as many times as we can during the week and do what we can do is going to reshape our bodies appropriately. And I, and I don't want to say that, you know, these 10% are or weird or crazy. No, they're just, just hyper-focused on certain things. But listen, let's not fool ourselves, like for the rest of us, regular people.

Yeah. Cool. I don't have to do anything super special to change things, to focus on certain. Yeah.

[00:36:07] David Syvertsen: Yeah. I mean, what, the last thing I have written down at, down here and it's a positive performance, but I, I, I made an asterix next to mine. Yeah, I want, I hope everyone can make their goals, internal, meaning I don't want you only seeking outside validation for you reaching your goal.

And that's really tough to do that in the social media stage. I get caught up in it sometimes too, that if you do want to chase after a certain look or a different look or improve your. Or you want to chase after a certain level of performance, improve your performance. I want you to be confident in that decision, but again, it's like a lot of things you need to be aware of what you're pursuing, like being kind of like, oh, I'm a little bit of both.

Like, yes, everyone is a little bit of both, but I think if you can kind of reflect on a little bit, what are you really pursuing more of? I think it can kind of just put you on the path towards getting there where if you have no idea or if you never put any thought into. Again, I see people stressing about, about like their times and their double unders like every week.

And I'm like, you don't really care other than just wanting to look good and you look great. Yeah, you got a bad double on their day. You look great. You know, you got your workout in, like let's not, but if someone's really like, wants to compete, wants to do performance, performance, performance, then you approach that person a little different.

But I think that your, your, your ability to mentally train yourself. Is a lot easier once you really know, like, all right, do I want to kind of push towards the aesthetics more and you can go back. Right. Like, I think the CrossFit calendar is set up perfect for the open comes in February. You know, once the holidays are over, like, let's go performance, you know, let's go perform it like two, three months, just that's it.

Two, three months. And then once the opens over start ski a little bit warmer outside, you know, beat season is coming up. Do you want to look a little bit better? You know, go for it. Like one of my training partners, I don't get to train with her that much, but I competed with her Nicole Nitto, Maya. She's getting married in a couple of weeks and she works with a nutrition coach for a long time.

And that nutrition coach, they've always been performance, you know, like a lot of food a lot, you know, and, and she works out really. I've always thought she looks good. It looks like an athlete leading up to her wedding. I think it's been six, seven months now. She, they, they said, okay, I want to look a certain way for my wedding.

She's leaner than I've ever seen her. Really. Yeah. And she looks awesome. She's gonna look amazing. She's gonna be a beautiful bride. But she said, see like, yeah, two weeks after the honeymoon, it's back on to performance.

[00:38:34] Sam Rhee: Cause she probably lost like 25 pounds on her clean and jerk

[00:38:39] David Syvertsen: and still clean jerks more than me.

But she, she is, she's an amazing athlete. I think she's the best female athlete I've ever personally been around and trained with. And they're going to go after it one more year for the open before some other life things probably occur and. She said the second, that suspect. So once they get back from their honeymoon in October, it's back like her entire shift, everything's going to shift how she works out and how she eats.

And then yes, how she looks will be different. She'll still look like an athlete. She's gone, but she wants to perform at a higher level lift, heavier weights, be able to recover because she wants to be able to go after it day after day. That's a huge part of, of training. It's going to be. You know, she's going to look different than she does right now.

And she's okay with that.

[00:39:22] Sam Rhee: That's her decision, you know, I think you mentioned how it is helpful mentally to go back and forth, you know, and between the two and think about it. Yep. And it's okay. It's okay. Not to necessarily know for sure. Yeah, which way you're really thinking about it. It is good to ask yourself these questions and think about it.

But I, I was just thinking about someone who who's doing both right now. Scott Sweeney. Yeah. You know, I laid off for about a month on vacation. Yeah. And when I got back like the past couple of weeks I, we're always kind of pretty close. Performance. Yep. He's been crushing me every time, every time and not just like, like effortlessly, like I'm on the ground dying and he's like, all right, great workout.

See you guys.

[00:40:04] David Syvertsen: Scott's had a really good year and,

[00:40:07] Sam Rhee: and his body also, like he had just had kids, he was sort of laid off for a while. He's a like a fire chief or something like that. And so he's really

[00:40:15] David Syvertsen: busy. Yeah. But on ours too. Yeah. And I don't think he's really

[00:40:20] Sam Rhee: chasing his aesthetic or necessarily performance.

He just shows up and he gives it his max effort. Yeah. And guess what happened? Both got better. Yeah. He looks better and he's performing like amazing.

[00:40:31] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Yeah. I've had so many people say that to me over the past, like five, six months. It's like, dude, Scott's crushing it.

[00:40:38] Sam Rhee: Oh my God. He's I mean, it kills me because I work out right next to him.

And I'm, I'm happy for him. And I'm also mad at him at the same time.

[00:40:47] David Syvertsen: All right, that's gonna wrap it up, guys. Body image, first performance, again, a really good conversation to have not, not really going to get you guys answers. That's not really the point of this podcast. It's to create some reflection for yourself.

And again, you know, Sam and I among, you know, several other people at the gym too, or would be more than willing to have the conversation with you. If you think it's going to help you out, just kind of clear the picture out a little bit. All right. Thank you.