S02E30 - The Firing of Dave Castro

We start our second season of the podcast with discussion of a shocker - Dave Castro @thedavecastro has been fired from his position as General Manager of Sport for CrossFit LLC by Eric Roza. After 15 years as Director of the Games and an integral part of CrossFit Home Office - why did this happen, and why now? What does this mean for CrossFit, its affiliates, and its athletes going forward?

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TRANSCRIPT S02E30 - The Firing of Dave Castro

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: Welcome back to the HerdFit podcast. I'm coach David Syvertsen. I'm here with Dr. Sam Rhee. We are just days out, less than a week out from probably the biggest CrossFit news. Maybe not of my lifetime. I'm trying to think if this is like the second biggest story of my lifetime within cross it or the biggest, but we are less than a week out from Dave Castro being fired.

By CrossFit, a direct former director now of the CrossFit games. Also even prior to that was the director of the seminar staff longtime presence in CrossFit. I would say if there's one person that's influenced me the most within the CrossFit space in my decade, decade, plus of being involved at Steve Castro Not good or bad, just influenced.

And he's been a huge, he's been a pillar to the cross, the community. We'll go into some of his biography that Sam's got right in front of him. But we want to share some facts about Dave Castro that some of you guys might not know about. Especially some of you that new guy. Oh, they've been in the CrossFit space for a couple of years.

You might just be like, oh, he's the weird guy that announces the workouts. Right. He's a lot more than that to affiliates, to coaches, to the community itself to obviously the cross the games we'll go into some of our reactions and then, we'll speculate a little bit, and Sam, what he got.

Right. So

[00:01:13] Sam Rhee: I agree. I think this was probably the biggest news, maybe other than the Glassman transition. That would be the only other thing I think that was so shocking and big, but on January 4th, seven, seven weeks before the new, the 2022 CrossFit game season, there was an internal email sent to CrossFit staffed by Eric Rosa, the CEO, and he said, quote, I've made the D the difficult decision to change the leadership of the sport team to best support CrossFits go forward plans.

And Dave Castro will be leaving the business. He wrote Castro's vision creativity. I have taken the CrossFit games from an informal backyard competition at his family's ranch into a global phenomenon with hundreds of thousands of participants and millions of viewers worldwide. Dave was also a central figure in the growth of profits, training business, helping to scale the seminar department to reach tens of thousands of trainers.

All of us in the world of CrossFit. Oh, Dave, a debt of gratitude for his contributions. And we wish him well, as he brings his talents to his next chapter, Dave has assembled a world-class team, which will now be led by Justin Berg. And we are excited to see this new generation of leadership build on his legacy as we work together to bring our sport to the next level of success.

Castro's response on his Instagram was, I have talked to Rosa once in the last three months, last three or so months during his time away, he called me tonight to fire me. He told me they had messaging prepared that this was mutual. I asked him not to use that because that couldn't be further from the truth.

[00:02:43] David Syvertsen: Yeah. So I, the, when in Castro's posts, when he says during a Rose's time away, the last time we as affiliate owners heard from Eric Rose he needs to take a break from his, his duties to focus on mental health. He was having a mental health. I don't want to call it a breakdown. He had mental health issues that he admitted to.

He took medical, leave, medical leave, and that's what we haven't heard from him at all. And now all of a sudden, that's what they've cashed means by saying his time away. And we'll get into that, I guess when we get to the speculation part of this. But that's, it sounds like Dave was really caught off guard and I do believe it.

I don't think he saw any warning signs because two days prior to that post two or three days, he made a. Instagram posts about, the open workouts are ready to go and there's going to be two new elements. And Dave Castro gets excited about the opening as anybody, just the test that he hands out to the entire community, the painting flicks on all of us, mental and physical.

And he, he wouldn't have never posted that. If he had any idea, this was coming,

[00:03:46] Sam Rhee: I agree a hundred percent. And if you're wondering who the heck is Dave Castro and why do we care so much about him? It is because as Dave said, Ben, one of the most integral parts of CrossFit and since its infancy.

So he is his official title was general manager of sport. He's 44 years old. He was born in San Jose. He grew up in aromas, California. As many of us know his parents have a ranch there it's often featured in the CrossFit games. Well, for those who don't know where that is, it's inland about five miles from Pacific coast highway between Santa Cruz and Monterey bay.

So it's basically south of San Jose. He went to Cal state Monterey bay for three months out of high school. He dropped out, went into seal training, pass buds his first time, which is the basic underwater demolition seal training became a seal. In 98. And he spent 13 years in the Navy until 2010. So he actually started in CrossFit in 2005 while he was still on active duty.

And he said he was looking for a training regimen. He found crossfit.com, which was founded by Greg Glassman and Lauren J Janai in 2000. He was stationed in Monterey in 2006. And he started working out at CrossFit HQ and he joined Greg as an intern for level one seven. And he was one of the original flow Flowmaster.

For and he became co-director of training with Nicole Carroll. So in 2007, Greg Glassman had toward his parents' ranch and suggested they have the Woodstock of fitness which is what he called it at the parent as his parents' ranch. And that was the first games in 2007.

[00:05:19] David Syvertsen: And that was sign up and go,

[00:05:21] Sam Rhee: just get 50 athletes, a hundred spectrum.

And then in 2009, they started the qualification process at the regional events. And so there have been 15 years of games. Dave Castro has programmed and been the head of games every single year

[00:05:34] David Syvertsen: it's changed much, but he's the one constant that has been in charge of it, running it, both logistically program, the workouts.

[00:05:42] Sam Rhee: Right. And S and all of us in CrossFit, see what he's done in the open, what he's done for the games. He is the biggest figure and the leading media figure for the games. And I would say probably the thing that most people would agree about. Dave Castro. He's a polarizing figure.

[00:06:01] David Syvertsen: Oh yeah. Yeah. He's a villain and he's a Villa, not in that.

The, the kind of villain you seen the movie where you hope they die. He's the one that just, when you see him talking about workouts and you watch him about to make the open announcements, you get nervous hearing. And like you said, he's a polarizing figure. Yeah.

[00:06:18] Sam Rhee: When I think of Dave Castro, my thoughts are he's blunt.

He's not a smooth guy, but he does appear unfiltered and honest. I don't think the guy has ever said something that seemed fake or made up. It seems like he's a difficult person to get to know the people who know him best. To say that he's very loyal. However, he does care about the people who work for him.

And I think everyone who has. Experienced his workouts. No, he's extremely talented at programming and he's absolutely dedicated to making that programming the best that it possibly can be. Yeah.

[00:06:56] David Syvertsen: Yeah. No, I agree with everything you said. I would add to it also that military background, I think carries over into how he is and CrossFit in that he's very regimented black and white.

Keep out the gray area, no fluff, like you said. And from people that I know that I've worked with him in for. He's very demanding and he is very, when, he has friends, obviously within the CrossFit space, but when it comes to work, there is no friendship whatsoever. And, he puts a lot of pressure on a lot of people and Be re taken the wrong way by some people.

But like you said, I think that he's a very, just, he's his own figure and he's uncensored. You're not going to tell him what to do. And that's partially, I think what happened here. We'll probably get into that a little bit later on. But he's someone that in my lifetime of cross it that 10 years.

He never changed at all. I'm sure there's things behind closed doors I don't know about, but, and maybe ego was a part of this, but that was one thing I appreciate about him is that you always knew what you're gonna get. The

[00:07:55] Sam Rhee: official CrossFit games, Instagram had a statement and they said, we understand and acknowledge that change is different difficult, and that this will be an emotional time.

For many, we are listening to both our internal teams and the community. We are here to preserve the heart of CrossFit and to help lead our sport into the future. The reaction so far on social media has been. Polarized again, just like Dave Castro is I think if you look at a lot of comments, they fall into two camps.

Either people say. CrossFit is going to hell in a hand basket. And this is the end of CrossFit. And other saying good written Steve Castro was not a good person and they should have gotten rid of him a long time ago.

[00:08:35] David Syvertsen: There's actually a a well sold shirt that actually says Dave Castro is a prick that came out years ago.

In good fun. I at it was all in good fun, but there are some people that, that is their interpretation of him, both in and out of the cross space is never a lack of respect. I think everyone knows that he was a huge part of cross its growth. Huge, probably, probably the pillar of that, that we all stood on.

But I don't think everybody liked

[00:09:04] Sam Rhee: him. It's interesting. When you see what the pro athletes have said, most of them have had no comment. Yep. Here's a selection of a couple that. Have been posted on Instagram and social media, rich Froning said, love him or hate him. And I've had many moments of both.

Dave Castro cared more for our sport and a success than anyone else. Whoever takes his role will have huge shoes to fill. Patrick Vellner said he has done a good job programming for years, but he's always been part of a team. And now we get to see what the team can do without him. And remember, Vellner kind of had some prickly situations with Dave Castro.

He they're both fairly independent people. Ben Smith. Flat out. This is a bad move. Yep. Carolyn Connor's I'm really disappointed. He was the last, most authentic thing about the sport. I just hope they maintain the spirit of what he has built back avoid. This makes me sad. It was an honor playing your game.

Dave Castro, Brooke Wells. A true legend. Thank you, Dave Castro. So no one's actually threatened to boycott threat to de affiliate.

[00:10:02] David Syvertsen: This is very different than the Glassman said. Right. When that Glassman situation went down, whether it was the Floyd 19 comment on Twitter or the stories about sexual harassment, sexual assault, you know that that's when people were saying, Hey, I'm out, I'm leaving because of this.

No one is going down that path. Right.

[00:10:21] Sam Rhee: Let's speculate a little bit at this point and say, and there were two questions that I think are foremost in most people's head. Why. And why now?

[00:10:31] David Syvertsen: Yeah. So my first thought, and this is where I think that almost like disappointed in myself at my initial reaction, because I think we're so programmed now just the way our world is going through stuff is.

Was it politically driven, right? Like on my, and from my perspective, and again, I have zero inside information on Castro on Rosa, but it's, I guess my, my initial speculation was is that this new culture that we're trying to cancel culture people, and they've cashflows shoots pigs and, likes to play with guns.

Are they trying to get that out of that, bro? I don't. That was a bad job by me. Like my, that was like my first reaction. And I think I'm kind of influenced by that's how a lot of our world works right now is like, whether it's a vaccine, whether it's COVID, whether it's this or that it's politically driven.

I don't think it's that. I don't, I don't think it's politically driven. I think this is a. Traditional. This happens in sports a lot. This happens in the real world a lot than what new management takes over something. That's pretty sizeable. They want their own people running the show. And Eric Rosa is one of the incredibly successful business.

He's not some just like, trust fund kid that bought money with his dad's money bought, cross it with his dad's money. He, he knows how to build business. And he has, because of that, he has people that have worked for him in the past that have helped him earn that success. So I, and I relate everything to sports too.

It's like when my New York giants right now, right. They're probably going to fire their general manager tomorrow after the last game of the season. And. The speculation will immediately be. Does the new GM bring in a new head coach? The only difference though is they've cashflow has been enormously successful.

So that that's where I think it, now that comparison kind of comes to a stop, but big picture. I just think that when new management comes in, they want their own people working for them. And. We just said, Dave cash was very polarizing figure. He's really the only one that's been there from the actual beginning, they're, I'm sure there's a few people in CrossFit HQ that have, might've been there as well.

Nicole Carroll maybe, but even she, like, has she been as involved as Dave Casha with the games and the seminar? Like, I feel like Castro has been the most involved out of any.

[00:12:48] Sam Rhee: He's touched a lot of the spaces within. Yeah.

[00:12:53] David Syvertsen: So I wonder to, to all the sudden, if that kind of presence is in every single part, it's hard to deal with that.

Especially if the personalities clash,

[00:13:02] Sam Rhee: I, my first take on this, when we speculate, the first thing is, is you're right. We don't really know what's going on at home office. It's fun to speculate though. And sometimes. Even if you can see what's going on, you can speculate about the ripples that are being caused.

So it's like looking at the invisible man. You can't see the invisible man, but you can see his footsteps and where those are. And let's just assume that Eric and home office are not idiots and they are not bent on destroying CrossFit. Right. And I try to avoid terms like woke or cancel culture because.

Anytime. I disagree with someone. I don't, I try not to assume they're stupid or biotic. Okay. If I do that, it's because I'm just being emotional or frustrated. Yes. Most people are not going to be stupid or idiotic. And if they have an opinion, that's different than mine. It's because of some reason. Right.

Not just because they're dumb. So let's assume that CrossFit HQ and, and Eric Rose are not dumb. They're smart. Yes. Okay. Yup. Let's suppose the first thing I thought of when this happened was like you said, I went back to Greg Glassman and I said, is there something that was an immediate deal breaker? Was there something egregious that either happened?

Now, or in the past that now just surfaced like an impending lawsuit or some other issue. Hopefully not right. That warranted him CrossFit H home office to terminate him. Just because the, it was made aware they were made aware suddenly. And remember in 2020 when Greg Glassman left and they, he sold CrossFit to Eric Rosanne, a group of investors.

There were allegations that there was. The culture was at least inappropriate at HQ and at worst it potentially involved routine and rampant sexual harassment. Remember there were on the record interviews with eight former employees for CrossFit athletes who revealed a management culture, which from the New York times article said.

Overt and vulgar talk about women, their bodies, how much male employees, primarily Mr. Glassman would like to have sex with them and how lucky the women should feel to have his interest right now at the time while they were going through this turmoil, Dave Castro was named by Greg Glassman, the chief executive, right.

He declined to speak at all about any of these allegations.

[00:15:20] David Syvertsen: Remember when you and I had a long conversation about this whole situation, like being associated with CrossFit, what does, what does biasing going to do? Right? That was one thing that you were pretty adamant about. Like you Castro knew about this culture back then.

You can't say that he didn't because he wasn't, we just said he was so involved in everything.

[00:15:40] Sam Rhee: Yes. So. And Sean Woodland recently said it was a biker gang, basically. And it was certainly not corporate in the traditional sense. Right. But there's a big difference between being aware, right.

Participating. Yeah. Because, and the people who were there, there were a number of them who detailed these allegations. Many of them also were aware, but did nothing at the time either because they were intimidated because they felt they didn't have a voice. And so, I don't really know the situation, so I'm not gonna crucify Dave Castro unless he actually took part in it.

And my speculation would be that he did not actually actively take part. And my guess is this for a couple of reasons. One is during that whole Glassman turmoil, no one implicated Dave Castro, even a little. With all of these allegations and these, these were anonymous allegations. No, no one actually had stepped forward except for Andy stump, but there are a number of employees that no one implied Dave Castro was involved, none of them.

And, and at the time the long-time CrossFit employees. Supported Dave Castro. Right? You could tell during these allegations, people like Nicole Carroll, others, they were silent about Glassman. They said nothing. And their silence speaks a lot. Like when you're sitting there and you're not being supported, that shows that's a good point, what's what's going on.

And when Dave Castro stayed and he stayed on. I think all of the long-time employees were very positive. They got behind them, they got behind them. And so my guess is, is that, although we don't know what his actions were watching, the other people around him, I think there was not anything that he actively did that that came up.

Yep. So if there isn't an immediate deal with. Okay then why would they do it and why would they do it now?

[00:17:30] David Syvertsen: Yeah, I mean, the timing of this is really bizarre to me. That was one of my first thoughts about the whole thing. And that's, it's still in the front of my head that to do this right before the open.

Well, like in terms of what the open means to the community and what Rosa has said, he's trying to do with the open to, they want not like all time numbers. They want all time. This I'm telling you right now, there will be people that don't sign up because of this. I think that's a lame thing to, at the limb, excuse to not do the open, but there's loyalty means a lot.

In the corporate space. And I think a lot of people will kind of use this as a way to protest, not doing the open knock, give their money to cross it. Will they come back? I'm sure they will. But this year, I think you're going to see numbers go down. We'll see. But the timing is bizarre. And the only thing that this sounds very petty, but weeks prior to getting.

Dave Castro posted a picture of on his Instagram meeting with Greg Glassman, for brunch, dinner, lunch, whatever. And that it was a very weird thing to put on your Instagram, knowing that there's going to be a lot of blow back on it. And again, I'm trying to think about trying to relate that scenario to something I've gone through or that I might go through.

Or could I create a scenario in my head where I'm on Rosa side and you see one of your employees do something like that? Is that grounds to fire someone? No, but it could ruffle feathers and I think. If there's already a lot of drama or, just kind of like an angst between the two, that could be something that kind of spilled the cup of

[00:18:57] Sam Rhee: it's possible.

So when I was a resident, they always taught me the three A's. Yeah. So if you don't want to get fired the rule of the three A's one is ability. You have to be technically good. Yup. Affability you have to get along with others availability. You got to do. Your, your senior residents want you to do right?

You can have two of the A's and not get fired. One a only they're going to kick you out of the program. Yeah. And so clearly Dave Castro has ability. The guy's talented. He's hit home runs every year. No doubt. Affability getting along with others, maybe a half minute. Like sometimes yes.

Sometimes no, it's hard to know, but in terms of doing and following what management probably wanted him to do, it's probably a hard, no, on that one. Yeah. That's my guess.

[00:19:51] David Syvertsen: And yeah, I mean, even that, like, I want to hear the one thing I'm disappointed in with Rosa. I want to hear from him, like now, not next week, not after the open B and this is going to call.

I know they're probably meeting behind doors about the game season right now, but there's a lot of work to be done for open sanctional semi-finals quarterfinals the online format, like everything is set up logistically, but I really, I mean it also Castro has an enormous relationship with rogue fitness.

They're the equipment suppliers for the games notice that's still there, like I'm really curious to see what's going to happen there.

[00:20:28] Sam Rhee: Okay. If I was Eric Rosa and I w I had Dave Castro as my games director. Yeah. I would say, first of all, do I want Dave Castro to continue programming the games and holding his role in perpetuity?

Yeah. And let's talk about the new corporate leadership. In July of 2021, they announced a new president, Jason Dunlop, previously of Nike and Starbucks. Canada goose new president, new global head of affiliates, Gary Gaines, previously, a soul cycle, Lyft and Tesla, and then Andrew Weinstein, global head of communications and public policy spoke person for AOL, head of communications for living social.

Those are the three that he just brought together as a team. There are four of them, all, not part of CrossFit, originally, all new corporate people. Now they're looking at they came in. To CrossFit, if I'm Eric Rosa and John Willie actually spoke of this in his podcast, what was the first priority he had, it was to stop the bleeding 500 affiliates left.

He wanted to reassure the affiliates. Things were going to go on. I'm legit. I know CrossFit. Yup. I will take us through this dark time. So as John Wally pointed out, when you say. Taking over a business, you start with the stuff you can control. And so he had to stop the bleeding and he focused on the affiliates.

He went out, he toured, he talked, he went to Europe. He. Had a playbook for affiliates. He had a programming option

[00:22:02] David Syvertsen: cap. Yeah. They had those like town council meetings on zoom, where they met with a

[00:22:05] Sam Rhee: bunch of affiliates here, created a regional management structure with representatives to get feedback from the affiliates.

So he wanted to reassure the affiliates and he focused on the affiliates. Let's make sure they're taken care of. Cause they're the lifeblood of CrossFit. Yeah. Didn't know a lot about the games or how to handle the games. So he left that to Dave castle. To just handle on his own. Okay. He had no one that could replace him at that point.

Yeah. Especially right away. Right. So now he probably feels like he has a reasonable handle on the affiliates and what's going on and the growth and they have a plan in place. So he's asking himself, do I want to keep Dave Castro or not? Yeah. Well, he's kind of a little difficult to deal with. Well, he just isn't really playing our game.

What happens if he gets hit by a bus? Do we have a succession plan? Do we have a transition? Has he has never brought someone in as a protege. He's never programmed as a group. He's always made it only about him. And in corporate, do you really want entire structured. Responsible by only one person.

No, I think if you're the head CEO you'd be caught with your pants down. If Dave Castro fell off the face of the earth, right. Then you'd be like, holy crap. What do I do now? So he has to be thinking this guy isn't really playing ball with me anyway. Right. I don't trust having one person in charge of everything.

We need to figure out what to do a better

[00:23:27] David Syvertsen: structure. So now that they have it, do have a director of the games now, Justin Berg, right? That's his official title now right .

[00:23:33] Sam Rhee: He has replaced him as director of the games. And so

[00:23:36] David Syvertsen: I bet they have a structure where he's at the top, but he has a team full of people.

And that's probably what Eric Rosa wants with the game moving forward. And maybe he did give it a shot for a year where you said Eric Castro, we're going to need you to kind of work with a team here and not to say Casha works with teams. Like he has people test his workouts. They refined them. There are people that know about them ahead of time.

But maybe the structure in which you just wanted too much control and Rosa didn't want,

[00:24:03] Sam Rhee: Rosa didn't want that. I mean, it makes sense to me, it's hard to just trust one person. Yeah. Especially if he's a little bit of a loose

[00:24:09] David Syvertsen: cannon, he is a loose cannon. And I even wonder sometimes. Rosa I'm sure wants to create a bit more big sponsorship with games.

Like get some other vendors in there. I mean, last year they had monster energy in there, I mean, partly owned by Coca-Cola, which is, that's another rabbit hole that we can dive down. At another time, but maybe Dave Castro, there was some kickback there that didn't want to be, that this is the one thing about old school, and this is where, like a lot of the people that I see they're really upset about this is they're so afraid.

They're always so afraid that cross it's going to disappear someday because of white collar people coming in and trying to put their spin on it. And everyone I talked to that's been in this from the beginning, like James Hobart, Joey. These guys are saying it's all about the affiliates in the community, but that doesn't mean that the people at the top can't do .

What white collar business normally does for big corporations. And, yes. You want the old school culture to, to always be there. Like we're in warehouses, it's dusty. We look like train wrecks after workouts. I think that will always be the case. For these people that are so afraid of the culture changing the culture has changed enormously in my 10 years enormously for the better.

Right when I started, there were no strict pull-ups it was Kip until you couldn't feel your shoulders anymore. Butterfly bees, it's faster lift as heavy as you can. Don't worry about technique. And then what did CrossFit do? They brought in experts in gymnastics, Olympic lifting and.

And they had a huge impact on what we do workout wise. And I think that's a change in culture. So it's still always going to be rustic and bad-ass and all that. But I think that sometimes, like when I listened to savant talk about this whole thing they get mad. If we say. Protein supplements at the gym.

They just want to show up in a six running shoes, loose baggies shorts, take their shirt off, halfway through a workout with no air conditioning or heat and, act like you're working out in the wilderness. But I think that culture it's evolving away from that original field CrossFit and some people can't handle it.

[00:26:11] Sam Rhee: Remember when Reebok first sign as a big sponsor, there was a big part of CrossFit that said, this is bullshit. We're selling out and look how much that did to grow the sport at huge. And I feel that I want to see how these corporate-y guys do. Yeah. But if their goal is to make CrossFit, the global name and fit.

That's great. Yeah, that's great. if you believe that CrossFit works, that it is a good modality and training method, then why wouldn't you want it everywhere? Do you want it to be like Starbucks or, a McDonald's no, you want the affiliates to maintain the spirit. And the drive that they've had,

[00:26:54] David Syvertsen: we've talked about this when the cat program came out, we don't want to be told what to wear, what to do with our hair, what programs to do, how many people could be in class.

I don't think it's going down that path.

[00:27:03] Sam Rhee: I agree. And I think that, that, well, I hope, I hope too. I hope so. Let's suppose. Eric Rosa approached Dave Casper was like, listen, let's put together more of a group, a transition plan. What happens if you die or get hit by bus or whatever, especially in COVID who the hell knows.

Yeah. And Andy and Dave probably wasn't particularly receptive to being a team player in that regard. So let's assume that if you're Eric Rosa and corporate you're gonna say, okay, so what do we do with this? Do we let them run a whole nother game cycle again? Maybe not because now he's just consolidating more and more of his power underneath this new management structure.

If you're a tech guy, tech people are very brash and they're very confident. Mark Zuckerberg said, famously move fast, break things, they're like, Hey, we can figure this out. Listen, we can't let him stick around for another cycle. He's just going to consolidate his power. Let's just get rid of them.

We have people in place. They talk to the people under him running the games and they said, we can do this then. The timing of it. Most corporate people don't fire between Thanksgiving to new year's. Okay. It's a shitty time. It's the holidays. You really want to fire someone during Christmas.

That looks bad. Yeah. So John Willy pointed out first week of January. Yeah. Out. Yeah. Now. The other time window would have been right after the games up until November. So sometime in September, right. They could have fired him, but that's when Rosa was taking his medical leave medical. They just brought in the new president in July.

So they're probably in a meeting like flexing and not really have consolidated it and figured it out. So they were okay, we can't let another game cycle go. Right. If we have decided not to keep. And so this was the first opportunity they had to let them go all this other stuff, the pig shooting, which I I'm actually don't care.

I really want him to shoot pigs. As far as I know, pigs are a huge menace in no, those wild pigs are really dangerous and they can't kill them fast enough. Right. Whatever and the great Glassman and meeting and all that stuff. Yeah. I don't think that those were definitely going to tip it over.

[00:29:23] David Syvertsen: You think it would have happened regardless?

[00:29:25] Sam Rhee: Pretty much. Yeah. It made it a little bit easier probably because people could grab onto it.

[00:29:31] David Syvertsen: Yeah. That's where I want to say, like, I don't know, Rosa enough, like to me, I'm like, all right, that's a petty thing that if Castro posts this picture, but Rosa might be so far above.

And like might not even go on Instagram and like, w we on like my lesser level where we probably spend a little bit too much time trying to guess. And without knowing these people, I wouldn't be surprised at all. If it was just like, Hey, I didn't even know that he posted a picture glass and like, I don't care at all.

This is, we. These guys like rose on these big time CEOs, they have five-year plans, ten-year plans fit to your 15 year plans. And this might've just been in their five-year plan that we have to get cash out and get in and kind of redirect how we set up the games.

[00:30:11] Sam Rhee: Exactly. So I feel it, this petty stuff is, it wouldn't be what I would fire someone over.

And I would assume that that wouldn't be the same for those guys. The other thing I would take advantage of is, is we know how fast the new cycle works now in a month. This is old news. Things move so quickly. So

[00:30:30] David Syvertsen: that's that like, you're making me like, get my wheels. This is why I like talking about this kind of stuff, because maybe this is the perfect time to do it because you know what we're going to be doing in six weeks.

We're gonna be doing the open. We're gonna be doing the like, and we're going to be like, that's where all of our attention will be. And then what's after the open for all these people that make the top 10%. And then what's after the top 10%, the semifinals like this is like CrossFit season for 99%.

I know the games athletes are more about the summer and all that, but for everyone now, our game time's coming up and look no further than our open gym today, we were full. We never have full open gym. It was full there's 18 people try and like muscle-ups. And this happens every year, right near the open.

Everyone wants to go get that muscle Upwork and it's awesome. Right. And we do it as a gym with programming too. And it's funny. I'll sit in the last thing I'll say about that. Most of our gym doesn't. I really don't think more. Like,, I think most of our gym doesn't care. Like, yes, it's a conversation we talk about when we're stretching before the 5:00 AM class.

Well, what do you think? What do you think? Cool. So what do you think by the giants? It's like, it's just another thing to talk about. Right. But it's not going to impact the open. And I think once you're into the open, you completely forget about it. Right.

[00:31:40] Sam Rhee: So if I was Eric Rosen and corporate, I would have thoughts about how do I make this.

Fall back into my rear view mirror. Yeah. So the first thing is, is they picked Justin Berg and he might be the interim, just like an interim head coach. He might be the final. I don't know. I think most management structures will sort of to be determined. But he is the real guy he's been around for a long time.

So he's his current title is VP of sports and partnerships. And now he's going to be director of games. So he started in seminar staff in 2009. So he first worked in marketing for a tech type company where they did onsite broadcast golf, tennis racing meets. He's a Florida guy.

He graduated from Flagler college out of St. Augustine started working on the marketing side for these broadcast companies and then got into CrossFit in 2008. He owned CrossFit south side in Jacksonville for about 10 years. He started seminar stuff, as I said, in 2009 and in 2010, they moved the games from aromas to stub hub center and they needed.

Background knowledge about sports, arenas, broadcasting, and he knew this stuff. And I remember hearing his podcast on talking elite fitness a couple of months ago. And he said, this is, this was my jam. This is where I had been. And so he helped them create the spectacle. That is the games.

So he said Castro was responsible for programming director of media. Tony budding at the time was responsible for media and he was responsible for everything else. And if you see him, he's the one calling people about COVID on the podcast, very involved. Yes, super involved. I saw some videos of him actually working as seminar staff, teaching, overhead squats, he lives and breathes CrossFit.

I think he makes sense.

[00:33:28] David Syvertsen: Yeah. The games are in good hands for this year. I think so. And out here, what about programming?

[00:33:33] Sam Rhee: Who is currently at CrossFit now? Who is good at programming? James Hobart.

[00:33:38] David Syvertsen: There's one. Who else is with him?

[00:33:40] Sam Rhee: That's right. Awesome. Malia. So those three have games experience and a Flowmaster seminar staff experience, all three of them.

So who else has been there? Who has been the face of CrossFit? Who has he now has a podcast. Adrian Bosman has been in front of the camera quite a bit, pat Sherwood. Oh, sure.

[00:34:01] David Syvertsen: Oh yeah. How I think he'd

[00:34:03] Sam Rhee: be a good fit. Yeah. I think someone speculated. I think he has that nice, relaxed feeling. He's fun.

He's safe too. He's safe. Yeah. He might be a good front man for the open or the games. The community

[00:34:15] David Syvertsen: loves him.

[00:34:15] Sam Rhee: The community loves him. Yeah. And then all the other people that are also still there, Nicole, Carol Shakara as well, all the seminar staff people I'll say this,

[00:34:24] David Syvertsen: like I coming from someone that loves programming I don't think Dave Castro is like a mad scientist that has like formulas on his walls.

When he's programming. You get to a certain point, a certain experience level. It's not that hard. To program, especially when you have so many things at your disposal and you don't have to worry about too many logistics. I mean, I think what Dave Castro did do well, is he programmed. So that it actually became a friendlier sport to watch on a broadcast.

Yes. So that , he does deserve credit, but now there's a template for that, so, I mean, we can do that. . And we're not near the level there. I actually wouldn't be as concerned. I just do ought to know. I would like to see if there's going to be a different flavor of programming for the open, for.

Which I doubt there will be then the next stages, the online stages, and then the actual games. There are, there has been talk with athletes that the games has gotten too much. It's became too much of , like the hunger games where they don't need to literally try to kill these guys or have attrition.

Yeah. They don't need to like, yes, no matter what. The attrition should be involved, but I wonder if, even that was part of the dialogue between Castro and Rosa, where, you know, like when you watch the rogue invitational, which was a great, great event to watch wasn't I would even say it wasn't half as much as what they did at what they do at the games every year and every year I'm like, man, that is insane.

Yeah. And it's almost like you're getting to the point where. Some of these guys are just going to get hurt and you really might not find the true fitness person there because avoiding hedger injury is not only about performance. It's about the

[00:35:58] Sam Rhee: programming. Yes. There is a balance. I think we've seen some extreme.

Events. Yup. I think Murph in the sun was pretty horrible

[00:36:07] David Syvertsen: from the song, the marathon row. Right. And

[00:36:09] Sam Rhee: Atlanta was pretty insane. Yeah. So yes. I think a group you're right. The template has been set. Dave Castro was able to develop this, like you said, credit to him. That was amazing that he was able to develop this for television for viewers.

And. They can run with it and make it very successful. Yeah. You don't have to have Steve jobs there forever. You can still make a crap load of money selling iPhones once the business model has been

[00:36:40] David Syvertsen: set. Right. And it's been set. Yeah.

[00:36:42] Sam Rhee: So the other thing I think that Eric Rosa can do and cork CrossFit home office to make things successful after post Castro, that the PDC era would be.

A huge network broadcasting deal. That's going to solve a lot of problems. Yeah, no,

[00:36:59] David Syvertsen: That's where the money's at in every sport. Oh my God.

[00:37:02] Sam Rhee: So let's assume they sign a big deal with CBS ESPN. They got money for CrossFit HQ for athletes, athletes love it. More exposure, more sponsorship opportunities.

Affiliates are going to love it because it's going to be broadcast and their sports. Is on TV.

[00:37:18] David Syvertsen: Yeah. And that's, I mean, the CrossFit sport has been huge for the fitness side. And anyone that says differently is completely wrong. The fact that the games were on TV for years, it was on ESPN when I started watching it and following it and doing cross it myself.

And that's a huge, huge marketing tool that if you know how to play around with that, it's gonna help you out. My wishlist will be a

[00:37:39] Sam Rhee: Huge network deal. In the meantime, I agree with. Eric Rosa needs to get in front of this. Yeah. He needs to talk. Yep. People from CrossFit home office need to communicate right now that space is being filled by.

Servon like who? I mean, I'm listening to savant because there's no one else talking to me about

[00:37:56] David Syvertsen: this man that show shows. I respect him from the fact that he's. An independent thinker and he's not afraid to put his thoughts out there, but the thing, he it's like listening to Fox news and CNN really, it's just, they're so far in one direction that they're so unaware of how they sound.

Sometimes

[00:38:14] Sam Rhee: I listened to him for counterpoint, but I do not hold most of the views that that guy holds. Yeah. Right. So control the message. Dialogue with people. Yeah. So there's not a vacuum in the media. Right. And then hit it out of the park with something big.

[00:38:28] David Syvertsen: Yeah. I know that this is going to be a big year for them.

I hope that the CrossFit community as a whole, and I think they will, I have no reason to think that they won't give this whole thing a shot. This is no reason to be bitter and walk away. I don't, again, I don't think that'll happen. I think that when the new CEO came on, we all said, all right.

Yeah. As a business owner, but as a CrossFitter as well, you have to give them a few years. You don't give them a few months. You don't give them a year. You don't like you have to give them a minimum, like three to four years to see what they're actually going to turn around. They have a plan. This is just part of the plan.

And you have to respect that fact alone. If we ever did like a major change here and you didn't agree with it, It's okay. To not agree with it, but you have to have the respect to give it a shot for a few years and see if it works out.

[00:39:12] Sam Rhee: You always say no one person is bigger than an organization.

[00:39:15] David Syvertsen: Not one, no, not one. Including Dave Castro, including us with bison on a much lesser scale across it will be fine. Bison would be fine if one of us left, it's the same thing.