S02E56 CROSSFIT RETURN OF THE DAVE CASTRO
The man is back! After leaving Crossfit Inc. in January of this year, the inventor and architect of the CrossFit Games @thedavecastro (TDC) has returned as a key advisor to the executive group and interim CEO Alison Andreozzi. He will be focused on @crossfitaffiliates and coaches. TDC has started a weekly video on YouTube and was recently interviewed by former executive media director of CrossFit, Sevan Matossian @therealsevanpodcast in a wide-ranging interview.
Dave and Sam provide their hot take on TDC's return, and speculate what this could mean for CrossFit athletes and affiliates in the future.
@crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate
S02E56 CROSSFIT RETURN OF THE DAVE CASTRO
[00:35:54] David Syvertsen: All right. Welcome back to the, her fit podcast. I'm coach David Syvertsen here with Dr. and coach Sam Rhee. We are going to talk about a story that Vivian from Bison told me, like you guys better to a podcast about this. I listen to Vivian, our boss, Vivian Dave Castro was back with CrossFit as of this past week in a new role for those
don't know, welcome to the earth. But Dave Castro was fired from CrossFit in January, 2022. We did a podcast on that here actually, I think it's our most watched YouTube podcast. For some reason I don't track that stuff too much. Everyone
[00:36:24] Sam Rhee: loves talking
[00:36:25] David Syvertsen: about Dave Castro. He is, he is the, he's the most polarizing person involved in crossroad.
I'm trying to find the date of it. If anyone wants to go back, I do think if you guys have the time and you have not heard it yet season two, episode 30. January 10th is when it came, became live. If you wanna scroll back and listen to it. So that's where you can also find some of the background information.
We're not gonna go into Castro too much like his background, but the background of this story was, Castro was the director and founder of the CrossFit games. Yep. His role was general manager of sport. He was the former director of training. That's the director of seminar staff and he was the short term CEO after Greg Glassman stepped down.
And before Eric Roza became CEO, there was an interim CEO. And that was Dave Castro. So, uh, And that, that was very short lid. Rosa came on. So anyway Rosa disappeared on a mental health leave and had not talked to Dave Castro at all.
Dave Castro did have a good conversation then prior to Eric Rose taking that leave. Okay. And then Eric Rosa came right back from his mental health leave. And the first thing he said to Dave cashier was you're fired and they tried to SP you know, spruce it up. That was a mutual departure.
And Dave said, that's garbage. I'm not going to allow that to happen. You were going to tell the community that you're firing me. Do you, do you remember that? Uh, Just remember our, our reaction to that. It was, yes, we were
[00:37:44] Sam Rhee: shocked, shocked, and apparently so was Dave
[00:37:47] David Syvertsen: Castro. Yep. He did not see that coming. Castro's reaction.
Just when, when he was fired, he was in the middle of prepping for the open 2022. He had just made a post about, we were gonna see new elements in this year's open that you guys have never seen before. And one of them, we just recently found out was going to be They're gonna be shuttle runs in the open.
Yeah. And they changed it, but, well, you know, maybe we could talk about that later. The community reaction was enormous. The CrossFit community was, I would, I wouldn't say outraged, but they were not happy about it. And they showed a lot of support for Dave. I think anyone
[00:38:20] Sam Rhee: who really truly loves CrossFit was surprised and really disappointed.
[00:38:25] David Syvertsen: When, so here's the contrast between Greg Glassman and Dave Castro? Greg Glassman was always like a weird figure to, to us on the outside. I never, I don't know. Greg have never met Greg deserves a lot of credit for what CrossFit is now. And Castro has a lot of respect for him, but he was a loose cannon and he said something on social media.
He probably should not have. And. We're not gonna go into that, but it, a lot of CrossFit gym starts to publicly say where they're out. They're not gonna be associated with CrossFit if Greg Glassman's still involved or they just said, Hey, I'm out in general.
When Greg Glassman left there, wasn't a lot of support shown for him from the community. I'm sure some old schoolers were like, Hey, we really miss you. We appreciate you. But when Castro was being fired, I feel like everybody was making posts and stories about how much, Dave meant to them. And I, it was interesting to me to see the contrast in support for Dave Castro verse, Greg Glassman.
[00:39:13] Sam Rhee: Absolutely. I mean, CrossFit was invented by Greg Glassman. Mm-hmm he is by all appearances, a genius. Everyone who knows him, calls his a genius Castro, calls him a genius. Mm-hmm I believe he's a genius. Yep. And it it's amazing what he's come up with, but at that time, when they went through that tumult and all of that controversy occurred, he got very little support, even from those who had worked with him the longest.
Yeah. Nicole Carroll resigned. Yeah. Yeah. And if, if, if Nicole car who's the most respected, one of the most respected figures in terms of CrossFit organization leaves, there's a, there are major issues going on. Yeah. And we won't talk about any of the allegations or anything like that, but the fact that he's that Dave Castro now, after all this has come back.
Yep. And. And he spoke
[00:40:01] David Syvertsen: about it at length in this. Yeah. So let's talk about what we're gonna be some of the information that we're coming from coming at you guys with Sevan has, if you guys don't know who Sivan is, he's the former director of media, I think media director for CrossFit. He was part of the whole, they fired the whole media team back in 2018, 19.
I think, I think his last name is Matt Rosen or something. Yeah. Try to say it, but basically. S S E V a N. He's got a podcast that is becoming more and more popular. Now it's a YouTube channel. He does a lot of live calling shows. He's got a lot of guests does he's covers the sport exceptionally well.
He is a very interesting person. Yeah. But he, he has a lot of relationships with CrossFit and he has a very long relationship with Dave Castro. Yep. And he had Dave Castro come on to a live podcast this week. It was an hour and 45 minutes. If you guys can muster up the time, I think everyone should listen to it.
I'm gonna send it to our coaches tonight and ask them to listen to it throughout the week. Because there's some things that he's Dave Castro says about coaches that I want them to hear. Dave Castro has never really been a very put himself out there, vocal guy. He's a former Navy seal. He likes to be under the radar, but he, he knows he's a public figure.
And he came on and discussed at length, this whole process of being fired and then being rehired and what his plans are with CrossFit. And it was, it, it's an awesome conversation. So that's where we're getting a lot of this information that will fire at you guys. And I remember Dave casher when he got fired.
He was saying that the community is what steered him back. Yes. That stood out to me.
[00:41:36] Sam Rhee: So timeline wise, Dave Castro was fired five months ago. Yep. In may of 20 may. So Eric Rosa recently stepped down as CEO. Yep. In may they announced the CFO, Alison Andrea Azi was the. CEO of CrossFit.
[00:41:53] David Syvertsen: Yeah. And they're currently interviewing for new
[00:41:55] Sam Rhee: CEOs.
That's correct. And she just has a very, very quick background. She's a 10 year veteran member of park city fit CrossFit and salt lady city, Utah. She's been a CFO and, and has held a number of financial and leadership positions and other companies, you can check it out on morning, chalk up. They talked about this.
And so that she was just announced in may, May 25th. Yep. Then on basically June 8th. CrossFit announced that they were bringing Dave Castro back into the CrossFit home office. Yeah. And their quote was quote, Dave Castro will be returning to CrossFit as a key advisor, focused on our affiliates and coaches and exploring new ideas for innovation across the business.
Dave's deep passion and commitment to CrossFit. And, and to what makes us unique will be key to our future growth and momentum. We're excited for his return and for the collaboration. Forward. He goes onto Savant's podcast and he speaks for an hour and 40 minutes. What was your take coming away from that?
It
[00:42:50] David Syvertsen: wa it was very refreshing. It actually motivated me and got me feeling for the first time in a long time. That CrossFit really truly is to their core, going to have the affiliates back. And Chris and I have never complained about our relationship with CrossFit. We're very loyal to them, but we've always said they've come up short with a lot of things.
And, and when it comes to affiliate support communication being the number one thing, it's one of those companies that, Hey, I am an affiliate owner and they speak highly of us. Right? They're like, you guys are, are the rock stars, the superpower, super humans of CrossFit. This is what steers the ship.
This is what keeps us going. We'll send that medium email and we'll get anything back ever sometimes. And then if we do it's two weeks later and like little things like that, Have always rubbed us the wrong way.
[00:43:35] Sam Rhee: Perceived,
[00:43:36] David Syvertsen: lack of caring. Yes. Perceived lack of caring, but it's never made us like, say screw CrossFit.
Like we were not one of the gyms that said we're gonna leave CrossFit after Glassman. We said like, Hey, we want to see what they're gonna do in response to this. But we've been loyal to them, even though we feel like they've come up short. Right. And so after hearing Castro talk. He actually does not have an official title yet.
I kept on looking for his official title yet. He's not going to be in charge of the games anymore. He, and he's not the director of training. Nicole Carroll is still the rockstar. She's already been the director and they're not gonna touch that. It sounds like the games have been run by Justin Berg.
Yep. And Adrian Bport and Adrian Bosman. So cash show really has nothing to do with the games this year. And now I wanna talk about that in a little bit too, but what is his title? And my takeaway is Castro is basically going to go all. on doing whatever he can do to support the affiliates. And I'm telling you this right now, we'll see if I'm right or wrong.
I think it's gonna make bison better. I think it's gonna make a lot of affiliates better. And just groups of affiliates and areas of affiliates, coaches, owners, and it's gonna trickle down to the members. Like I think there are members at our gym that are going to benefit by the fact that Dave Castro is now fully all in, on supporting the affiliates,
[00:44:53] Sam Rhee: he described his role as being an ambassador to the community on SI's podcast and an advisor to the CEO and executive team.
Yep. He said he's reporting directly to Andrea Ozzie, the interim
[00:45:04] David Syvertsen: CEO. Yep. So that, which Sivan said this it's, that's a very good
[00:45:07] Sam Rhee: thing. Right. And. He was asked a bunch of questions, which we'll get into about, his involvement with the games, potential involvement with the games. Yep. Stuff like that.
I think the, the thing that really got me in his podcast, and this is where. About 65% of SI's stuff is super annoying and I can't stand it. Yep. Yep. 45% of it. He is such a good interview in terms of asking certain good questions. Yes. And someone else told me, he asked the questions I would wanna ask and he does have a knack and a gift for that.
He does. He also asks questions that are grossly inappropriate. Yeah. And his political views. So jarring and, and
[00:45:44] David Syvertsen: what I like Castro called him out. He did a little
[00:45:46] Sam Rhee: bit. Yeah. Yeah. And that, so the first thing that I really was glad that I felt like Castro was being an honest and completely open individual is he said he was completely surprised by being fired by CrossFit mm-hmm he said, and he has not just He, he wasn't just hurt.
He compared it to having a baby taken away from him. Yeah. He said I gave
[00:46:08] David Syvertsen: birth to the CrossFit games. Yeah. Because he gets, he said that he gets asked a lot. What are your favorite games? And he's like, if someone asked you which one was your favorite kid, what would you say? You can't answer that. And he goes, that's, that's how, what he's comparing.
The games to his children.
[00:46:21] Sam Rhee: Right. And then the next thing that he said was he did not appreciate his baby being taken away from him. Mm-hmm and his plan was another five years of programming so that he would've had 20 years. Yep. As the CrossFit games director, where he would've had the next five years grooming a
[00:46:42] David Syvertsen: succession plan.
[00:46:42] Sam Rhee: Yeah. Yeah. A succession plan teaching someone else or others that he felt like was. Completely cut off prematurely. He did not have the opportunity to help transition the game to somebody else or others. And he. I clearly found that to be one of the
[00:47:01] David Syvertsen: most difficult aspects to deal with. Yeah, that, that was a really interesting part about how emotionally attached he was to the games he was asked by Savanna, are you gonna go to the games this year?
And he kind of, I, I love listening to, to Dave's talk because you can tell he's very thoughtful. He is. And he's a huge reader too. Like, I feel like that comes out in the way he talks. So some of his vocabulary and, and language usage. But he, he doesn't like, there are these like awkward stretches sometimes.
And I was like, wait, is my internet connection going out? Sivan would ask a question and Cashio would just think for 10, 15, 20 seconds and then give an answer. And he is like, I don't know if I can go to the games. He goes, I, I might have to, you know, the CEO say, Hey, you're with us now you gotta go out there and be affiliate support.
But he said that to be out there and. It's almost like, again, like losing a kid or having your kid taken away from you, then you have to go watch him play a baseball game. Like it's too emotional for him to just go for the experience. He's never been a guy that watches anything semifinals sanctional waza because he likes to.
He likes to watch the games, not as a fan, like us, it's like his again, it's like his kid performing he's he had a, a hand in everything at the games and to go there, not have a hand in at all. It might even be hard for other people that are running the games to have him there because you know what he's thinking, it's like, oh, that shouldn't be that way.
That shouldn't be that way. The guy invented
[00:48:24] Sam Rhee: the games for God's sakes. Yeah. Yeah. So of course he feels that way. I can't imagine what that must feel like. Yeah. And yet for him to sit there in front of the world admit those feelings mm-hmm , express them pro and but the other thing is
[00:48:36] David Syvertsen: he left the door slightly open that he might come back to it.
Yeah. He,
[00:48:39] Sam Rhee: he said he was happy. He told Boz who's programming the games. Now he was happy to help in any way that he wanted. Yep. He also said he did not know if he would be programming the games in the future. Yeah. So he, he left, like he said, all these things yeah. That were so emotionally charged for him.
But then he like left the door.
[00:48:57] David Syvertsen: Open to crack. Yeah, no, that, that that's. And, and Dave is uh, again, he's a Navy CEO and he does, he, like, I do think he has a lot of respect for, the totem pole. If someone's in front of, or someone's ahead of him and gives him an order, he will do it. And if he's, and he's always known as a guy that's hard to work for because he demands, demands, respect, and, he expects your best effort at all times.
Think if there's a way to get him back into programming, but he does have to be a part of a team, has to run by things by like, he had shuttle runs in the open this year and like, Hey, it would've been cool. Bison. Would've made it work. It would've been a logistical nightmare for our gym. We would've made it work, but there are some gyms that don't have the space to do that.
And I think that's where there might have been a little disconnect between Dave and. The CrossFit training staff, the seniority at cross it saying like, Hey, you can't do this. And who know, who knows what those conversations were like. I mean, we're in speculation mode right now, Sam and I, but maybe he can get back into programming certain things, because if Dave's gonna program, he's gonna program everything.
He's not gonna just do the games because Dave has always said, I program, they all, there's a story every year, they all build off each other. And I think that's gonna be a big part of it. I think.
[00:50:05] Sam Rhee: The thing that also gives me hope is that the stuff he didn't program this year was really well programmed.
Yeah. Oh yeah. The age group. Semi-finals age group, quarter finals. Great outstanding program. Outstanding programming. Yeah. And Dave did not have a hand in that either. Right? So. Either way, whether he actually does participate in a way that is acceptable to CrossFit home office, or if he doesn't mm-hmm I think it's all gonna be great.
I would love because he does have creates, obviously who has deeper knowledge than Dave. Yeah. Who has been more. uh, Creative than Dave in terms of the programming over the years, we could name the craziest crap that he's come up with. Yeah. And you know what? You have to be crazy to get to challenge people and see what sticks and to keep
[00:50:50] David Syvertsen: it stimulating, like, yes, we can all create like 10 minute Amra and 21, 15 nines.
And they're good fitness test. But if you're creative, it keeps people stimulated. And I think that's he's as responsible for the growth of profi as anyone in, in the industry. And a lot of it comes from programming. The only problem
[00:51:08] Sam Rhee: is, is that if you lose custody of your kid and you're only allowed Sundays between two and four to go by and say, hi.
Yeah. Is that going to be enough? I
[00:51:15] David Syvertsen: don't know. Yeah. And it could ruffle, it could ruffle feathers. It could create more issues. So that'll be something to just keep an eye on. That, and I, I think that another thing that we have in avenue, one of my, one of my bigger takeaways was Dave Castro has a YouTube channel and it's funny.
It's just the world we live in now. Mm-hmm , if you told him this 10 years ago, he'd be like what? no, he'd never do it 10 years. But now he said he is gonna give weekly reviews on that channel. Yep. And I think it's something we should all watch. I'll be watching it every week. I think coaches should all watch it because and honestly, if I think if you're across it, they're gonna be 10 to 15 minutes.
It sounds like nothing long. And you can listen to it on their way to work when you're, getting ready in the, in the morning for work. But I, I think those. Those weekly reviews. That's a clear sign that Dave is changing. He is evolving with the times a little bit. He does seem like an old soul to me a little bit.
Like he likes things that were 20 years ago, just like a little less social media, a little less banter back and forth. Sure. But I think that he really is buying into this new age of things. Like, Hey, we need to get our cell, our faces out there a little bit more. And right now, Dave is traveling to a lot of different boxes.
We're trying to get him here by the way. and just talking to affiliate owners and having meetings. And he said, I watched the, the review. Yeah. And I thought, what are the cool takeaways that it made him think he said, and I'm very curious to see what happens here. That one of the more common complaints that he's getting from affiliate owners is that they took regionals away that they miss regionals.
And he was like, I was very surprised by that. And it wasn't even just the high level athletes that wanted, I mean, again, regionals, it's the top, one of the top 1% that actually get to go, but it did bring the community together and it was a huge motivating factor. A lot of gyms because they had affiliate like that was a real affiliate team, like we've always thought bison could make that kind of level at some point.
And it really tied a lot of loose ends together, like regionals. And he, when he, the, just looking at his like nonverbals after he was saying that I was like, that might, that might come back. Well,
[00:53:11] Sam Rhee: he didn't offer solution. And I think we all sort of assumed the online quarter finals, the in person semis were sort of the substitute for what regionals were gonna be.
Yeah. But the fact that he specifically mentioned that means. And who knows mm-hmm he's listening. He's yeah. And Who knows, like everything is fluid. Listen, they've never had a straight post open setup for
[00:53:35] David Syvertsen: ever. Like they change it all the time. Yeah. It's changed
[00:53:38] Sam Rhee: every year. Yeah. So does that mean more changes in effect it's possible?
Yep. The other thing he mentioned was how much everyone loves the L two. Yeah. Which was
[00:53:46] David Syvertsen: great. I mean, and. We're we're gonna do a podcast on it. Yeah. I will echo with the same
[00:53:50] Sam Rhee: thing. Yeah. I thought the other thing he mentioned that was interesting. You mentioned that he went and saw the north Cal affiliate owners.
He's working with Nick, Nicole, Carol on the affiliate side. He went to Austin and met with affiliate owners, met with bill. He Heninger yep. Of from rogue rogue. Who's the head of rogue. Yep. And there was some speculation from Andrew Hiller, which I think is completely bogus. I don't believe it. But again, we're all speculating is that rogue went to CrossFit and said, if you don't hire.
Dave Castro. We're not gonna be a sponsor for the
[00:54:16] David Syvertsen: games anymore. Yeah. What do you think of that? I actually don't. I actually would look down on that if he did it and not because I'm, I am as pro Dave Castro as you're gonna find, and, but I, I think that would be a low class move because what rogue right now with that CrossFit and like rogue is bigger than CrossFit.
I agree, but I still think CrossFit was a huge part of their growth. And I think there's gotta be some give and take my opinion as an affiliate owner. I feel this way as an affiliate owner, if I ever get to talk to 'em, I'll put it out there. Now, there are a lot of companies that have fed off our affiliates and we don't get anything for it.
I'm not asking for anything, but I think there's some thought that should go into what is Reebok without CrossFit. What is noble without CrossFit, the people that CrossFit. And is there a way to support affiliates? with the gains that some of these companies are making. And I feel the same way about rogue.
Rogue was big. It's gonna be big without CrossFit, but there's gotta be some idea that rogue was made much bigger. Think about how many gyms used their stuff because of CrossFit. Now you could say rogue is helping CrossFit and, but you know what? There's a lot of companies now that supply very good equipment, true grits.
One of them in California, they wanna be a competitor to them. Yeah. You gotta be careful with that kind of stuff. Now, Sivan is calling, bill Henneger, a big swinging Dick. Like he's like the, probably the most powerful person, not in CrossFit that impacts CrossFit and okay. I don't know.
What are your thoughts?
[00:55:41] Sam Rhee: Well, first of all, I think rogue is as successful as they are because they are a great company and they make amazing products. First of all, right. Yeah, not that, I mean, other companies also make great products, but let's face it. I mean, Everything, almost everything that I've bought from rogue has been
[00:55:58] David Syvertsen: awesome.
Yep. And great
[00:56:00] Sam Rhee: company. Right. And they're, USA owned and operated. Yep. They're outta Columbus, Ohio, which is where I grew up. Mm-hmm so that's cool. To me, it's, it's sort of a hometown thing. Yeah. But I also feel like they've done it the right way. Mm-hmm and the reason, one of their, the reason why they're so successful is because they're so good now, did they benefit from CrossFit?
Sure. CrossFit also benefited from rogue. Yep. I really highly doubt that rogue would get involved in something like a hiring for Dave.
[00:56:26] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Ramson and I speculated that a little bit, like would, would Castro ever because Castro would, I don't know if this, just with, if this was strategic, but when he was not back with CrossFit, a lot of his posts and stories were him hanging out with bill and they, and Dave said that they had a lot of one on one time with each other.
They had to have been planning something. If he wasn't gonna go back to cross it, would there be a rogue, like would the rogue invitational be, try to compete with the cross at games and create these two different leagues of, of CrossFit sport.
[00:56:56] Sam Rhee: You know what? I think that speculation has been lead to rest by what Dave said in the Sivan podcast,
he did not sound like there was any alternative in life. Yeah. Other than CrossFit. Yeah. And he said that he said, yeah. And it so strongly that he basically yelled at Savan back in a seat. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, and you wouldn't do that if you were ever considering an alternative to CrossFit.
Yep. He basically told Savon, and this was amazing to me. Mm-hmm because Sivan is such a yapper. Yeah. He, he, I like that term truther. Where'd you get that term? CrossFit truther, because I thought, I thought that was such a good term that just came on. Oh, okay. Cause I feel like that's what a lot of these people are out there.
They're like CrossFit is going down. Yep. It's a sinking ship. Yeah. It's falling apart. Look at all these mistakes they're making, now that everything's changed. Everything is bad. Yeah. And to me that's a CrossFit truther. Yeah. And he. Sivan you go after the, the company too much. It's not a sinking ship.
Yep. You cross the line. He says you, he says you effing ride the line and sometimes you cross the line. Yep. And he said, I I want you to not spew negativity for sensationalism or. Be negative towards HQ, give us, or slash them a chance. Yeah. Yep. And he said they are, don't think they're vicious or have bad
[00:58:13] David Syvertsen: intentions.
That's something that I love that he said that was one of my favorite part about the PO that's what part of what fired me up. We're it's okay to criticize, but no. What do you have anything else on that? Cause I have one thing go for it. So he. Well at, and at the end of that statement, he was saying, if you do want to come at us, come at me.
Right. And like that to me is the truest sign of a leader because honestly, no one wants to have anyone come at them and criticize them and criticize something. They work so hard for like, trust me, nobody wants that. But if someone is willing to put themselves in the line of fire so that other people aren't getting it, I like that.
But I also, it shows confidence that Dave says, Hey, if you come at me, guess what? I'm gonna come back at you and prove you wrong. All these things you're complaining about. You're. Is at the end of the day, Sivan is on the outside now. Yeah. He's no longer on the inner bubble.
And I think that's what bothers him the most. Yes. There's a lot. He just does not know. Yes. And I love that. Dave said he goes, break this down, stop crying about it all the time and complaining. Do you really think anyone's trying to sabotage across it right now? Really? Like these people, they love CrossFit too.
Eric Rosa, like what we think about him right now is almost irrelevant. The guy loves CrossFit right. Going through personal issues. Sure. Did he probably get in over his head and become CEO of something that he really probably should not have become? And he, I give him credit for. Getting out right away, maybe, maybe not.
But do you really think he was trying to sabotage anything? Like no, he was trying to put his spin on it. And I think that Castro really does firmly believe that whoever the new CEO will be, but also the rest of the executive team and all the support staff, the training staff. We're all trying to make this thing better.
He said, he goes, I see, I don't see a sinking ship. He goes, I see a ship that's going upstream and people are jumping on board. Yep. And again, that kind of fired me up a little bit. This is where I think we could turn the conversation to this is where Sivan has disconnect with someone like me. I feel like you gotta make money.
This isn't a hobby mm-hmm and we have a lot of mouse to feed here. And I know a lot of affiliates say that too. Yeah. And we do, we talk about this all the time. I feel like we're talking about this now more than ever. How can we get more money in the people, the pockets that work here? How can we make things better for the people that come here and pay memberships every month?
Like we're not just pocketing the money mean like, all right, see you later. Right. We wanna make things better here. We wanna put more money in the pockets of our coaches, our staff, like every year, we're gonna try to do that. And Dave touched on that. He goes, we don't need to be that 2009 version of CrossFit where we're just trying to wad with our long shorts and Asics running shoes, there's money to be had.
And we need to make sure that we are a money making business. If we, if this is gonna stick around, he did say
[01:00:48] Sam Rhee: that. yes. CrossFit needs to make money needs, needs to be profitable. And he understands that. Yeah. But the thing that really I love is that he has, he's in Castro is in us or them mentality.
Right. And he is now considering. The current CrossFit company. Mm-hmm
[01:01:06] David Syvertsen: us. Yes, that's me. Yeah. Which is why he
[01:01:08] Sam Rhee: said come at me. Yeah. I E he's part of the CrossFit and he doesn't even have an official title. Right. He doesn't, it doesn't sound like they've given him a specific power over anyone or responsibility or, or some sort of decision making capability.
He called himself an ambassador and an advisor. Yeah. And yet, even with that role, he said, I am CrossFit. Yeah. Yep. And, and he come at me, come at me. He said he believes CrossFit will be successful. This is basically a Testament to the leadership that's in place right now. Yep. So this is the interim CEO, Andrew Ozzy.
This is the existing executive. C-suite which you just mentioned mm-hmm that he says these guys care about CrossFit and he believes that they will do well. Yeah. And. Dave Castro who was UN unceremoniously kicked out. Yep. Who anyone else could easily have had horrible feelings? Yep. Felt angered, bitterness, bitterness, run to his friends, like a, a, a rogues owner and say, let's do something that will be even bigger than CrossFit.
Yep. For him, he didn't let his pride get in the way he did not let his pride get in the way he's come back. And he truly believes in cross. Period. Yeah.
[01:02:21] David Syvertsen: And I love that because when I hear someone that's been around for this long, when he truly believes in the methodology in the community, it makes me feel like I should too.
And like, not that I don't obviously, but like, it it's nice to be reaffirmed. And he said that about himself. He was like, it was nice to feel supported. It was nice to feel loved and missed when he got fired, because it like really cemented the idea in his head. What I've been doing and dedicating my life to, and it wasn't remember, he was not just games.
He was CrossFit. Yeah. He was
[01:02:49] Sam Rhee: on seminars. He was head of co-director of training
[01:02:52] David Syvertsen: with Nicole Carroll. He he's really been on in the weeds on this. And he felt like that, that affirmation that he got, that he was loved and missed. It really confirmed in his head. Like this is where I belong.
And this is my, this is my calling in life. The
[01:03:05] Sam Rhee: other thing is, is that if some people are like, oh, well, Dave Castor's changed. And now he is weak or soft. He completely admitted. There are people within CrossFit that do not like him. He said, he's polarizing. He says he was demanding. He holds people to high standards.
He makes people uncomfortable. Yep. And he admitted some people just do not like him. Yep. And you know what? That does not sound like a defanged or, neuter Dave Castro. Yeah. That sounds like Dave Castro. Has always been in place at CrossFit. Yeah. Remember the
[01:03:35] David Syvertsen: shirt, Dave cash rose at prick. like that, that's where there are people that don't like him.
And, I think some people jokingly don't like him. I think most people don't from our, our world don't even know him. So it's like, all these workouts suck are like, oh man, your, your announcements of the workouts on the open we're. So like, come on, dude. Like why you have to do.
That's that's juvenile he's meaning people actually in the business that know him actually don't like him. I would be scared to work for him. Yeah, me too. But I also like, and this is, again, this is on a much lesser level, but it this is another wide reason why this, I sent this to Sam. I was like, please listen to this.
I felt so strongly about it. I relate to him in a little bit on a much lesser scale. I always struggle with, I've always struggled with this of, of owning a gym and trying to coach and trying to be involved is I know that I'm not liked by everyone. I know there's people that don't like me, right? Whether it's my classes or who I am as a person, what I try to do, what decisions I make decisions I don't make.
I get it. I mostly like you sometimes. Yeah. Mostly of the time. Right. but I understand it. And it, it is, it can be hard to deal with, but in time as this place grows stronger and as the place, in my opinion grows better. It kind of reaffirms, like it's okay to not be liked. He, and he says that on the podcast, you're never gonna be liked by everyone and you don't need to, that's not your job, Dave Castro's job is not to be liked by everyone.
His job is to make sure the operation is strong and he's showing support to people that are working for him. And, and his case is it's really the affiliates. So he's really trying to show support to an affiliate because he knows like that's where all the grunt work is, but that's the most important, like he.
CrossFit coaches, superheroes. He said, yeah, you'll watch the games. They're like, wow, those guys are like, they look like physical superheroes. He goes, but the real superheroes of CrossFit are the coaches. They're changing lives. The affiliates are changing lives.
Whether it's weight loss, whether it's coming off medication, whether it's forming relationships. We were just yesterday. We were at the party at Sam re and John Laster came up to me and he goes, dude, is it amazing? None of these people would've known each other without bison, then like, that's one of the things that always makes me feel like.
This place is doing its job. It's not, someone getting a six pack or a muscle up, right. It's forming relationships and just improving lives.
[01:05:43] Sam Rhee: Oh, that's also the best looking group of people you'll see at a party
[01:05:45] 2022_0619_1009: ever.
[01:05:46] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Good pictures by the way yesterday. but so that, that was like, kind of like one of that key takeaway that I had from him was.
He just speaks the language that I've always wanted someone above us and cross it to speak. And I love that. I think there's a huge trickle down. Absolutely.
[01:06:02] Sam Rhee: The thing that I love about Sivan about these questions that he asks is that only he can ask them and to Dave Castro , and get answers. And one of 'em was about the sports side of CrossFit.
He talked about drug use yeah. And drug testing. Yeah. And he said a lot of truthers believe that. Drugs are rampant and CrossFit and that CrossFit protects their top athletes. Mm-hmm they protect the rich phoning, the Matt Frazier's. And the, the answer that they've gave to me was.
Completely honest and true. It doesn't seem like he's lying about anything else. Why would he lie about this? And he said, listen, we know there's always gonna be more stars. Yep. Rich phoning pops. Who, who cares? You have Matt Fraser. You have Justin Madeiros. Yep. You know who cares if Katherine Davis daughter would pop or something and TH's daughter, Tia, Claire
[01:06:48] David Syvertsen: to me's.
He said there's, there's always gonna be another
[01:06:51] Sam Rhee: star. Yep. So it, CrossFit is bigger
[01:06:54] David Syvertsen: than anyone he even said. He is like, I wish some of those guys pop, like he actually, they wanted to bust these guys. Yeah. So even if it was Fring. Yeah. And I, I, I believe him on that. Do you
[01:07:03] Sam Rhee: believe him on that? I, I believe him on now are ath are now, are there some athletes out there that are smart enough to have Eva it, yes.
But you know what? That's every sport that's listen. CrossFit is. It would go bankrupt if they they can't
[01:07:14] David Syvertsen: test everyone. No. And that's, he said he brought that up. Yeah. They can't afford to test everyone every
[01:07:18] Sam Rhee: week. It's unrealistic, so they can only do what they can do. Yep. And listen, if people want to cheat their burpees, if they want to, cheat on other things and they wanna cheat using illicit substances, CrossFit can only.
Institute what they can to the best of their ability, but they are certainly not intentionally trying to protect people or not find out about drug use for
[01:07:44] David Syvertsen: sure. I also love how he brought up Hiller on the podcast. Yep. So for the, for those that don't know, Hiller, Andrew Hiller has a YouTube channel and he's become very popular over the past few months in regard to criticizing the sport, the judging, the backend stuff, the people that are overseeing the sport right now, how poor of a job they are doing upholding, you know, Objective standards for athletes to follow mm-hmm and the videos I've watched a bunch of 'em.
They are hard to watch. But I do think he's doing a good job doing them. That's just not my, my jam. Like I don't, I like to just be quick and precise and just show me, you don't have to do all these backend stuff, but Hey,
[01:08:22] Sam Rhee: well you need 10 minutes on YouTube in order to actually monetize it. Oh
[01:08:26] David Syvertsen: yeah.
Okay. Oh really? Yeah. Oh, okay. So that's part, that's part of it. Yeah. So good for him. He's doing a good job and I do think he's ruffling enough feathers to actually make a differe. And Sivan asked him, Hey, what do you think about Hiller and cashier? I was so ready for cashier to be like, what a douche bag he is.
He goes, he like, he was like, he is so necessary for the sport. Like he's fucking, I think he said he's fucking vital for the sport. And I was like, I really like tuned in when he said that and it made so much sense. He goes, watch ESPN, Stephen, a Smith. He's probably the biggest like clown.
I can't believe how much money the guy makes. I think he makes 18 mil a year and he goes on these talk shows and he just, he like makes an ass out of himself, criticizing stuff and skip bailiff. And what they do is they generate discussion. Even if like Stephen, Steven, I Smith and skip a list, even though I think they actually on purpose will make themselves look like idiot.
To drum up, retweets and yeah. And just, oh, look at this link. What an idiot. And it really, it builds the brand of the sport. It
[01:09:26] Sam Rhee: legitimizes the sport. So when you have people who are like, who's better in the sport, Michael Jordan or LeBron James, no, LeBron James was better. No. Michael. And then you have people who are like, rich fig is the best athlete in the world.
[01:09:38] David Syvertsen: No. Better. I mean, phoning of Frazier, that's a common,
[01:09:40] Sam Rhee: right? So when you get to that level with a sport where you can sit there and be like that, that. That baseball. Player's a clown. He effing sucks. Yeah. The Astros stink, like whatever you wanna say, these cheaters, they cheated. They
[01:09:53] David Syvertsen: cheated. No, it's again, it's generating discussion.
And if you want the sport to grow, you need more of Hillers to be honest with you you'd
[01:09:59] Sam Rhee: want people to be zoomed in and just focused on the sport. And when you have baseball commentary, where they talk about all that stuff. Yeah. Who's using pine tar. Who's not like all that stuff.
Yeah. Is, is it, is. Not useful in the sense of um, actually improving the sport. Right. But it's entertainment. Yes. Sport is entertainment. Yes. And that, they said just pulls so many eyeballs yeah. Into the sport. So whether you are a phoning fan, whether. You're a Frazier fan, whether you like Tia, Claire Toman, whether Hiller sits there and, and bags on Danny Spiegel and you're outrage, cuz you're Danny Spiegel fan.
Yeah. Like,
[01:10:33] David Syvertsen: or not here you are, you're giving it attention and now it, it just drums up conversation. And I, I hope some of the athletes can see that, and I've always thought this, that athletes, that criticize media, this happens in every sport, they'll, they'll go at reporters and they're like, oh, you've never played this sport in your life, bro.
I'm like, I always want to tell the athletes without them, you guys are not making the money you are. And I'll say that to the crossroad athletes too. That if you are Denny Spiegel, if you are, I mean, who else has you been criticizing lately? I mean, I feel like Denny Spiegel's , but like, if you are an athlete that's getting criticized, it actually might put more money in your pocket.
It might not be nice to hear might like the pride might take a little bit of a shot. All news is good news. Yeah. But like, and I think a lot of those guys know that better than I do. Like you just gotta get attention. If you're trying to make money on social media, like you gotta get attention, whether it's good or bad and it's gonna be in a cash or even said, he goes, I wish he was around.
When I was director of sport, because he goes like, I would've won at it with him. And like, that would be, I would pay to watch that those two go at it with, via, via conversation. Absolutely.
[01:11:32] Sam Rhee: Yeah. I mean, and we all have our heroes and I feel like that's where CrossFit is also starting to go.
I have the people that I really admire and look up to in the basketball world. Yep. You have like Derek Jeter. Yep. Or who's that guy that, because
[01:11:45] David Syvertsen: 30 for 30 is coming out in I think two, three weeks, right? 10 wait.
[01:11:48] Sam Rhee: Yeah. So these are the, and so when CrossFit builds up iconic athletes also you have the people who discuss all the crazy stuff, but then you also can lift up the iconic ones.
Yep. That shows you how real. A sport CrossFit is when people still are saying CrossFit is not a sport.
[01:12:05] David Syvertsen: And then, Sivan even said like, there have been issues in your sport. He brought up the rope climb situation where Scott, Patrick towards ACL. And he goes like, what are you gonna do to fix this?
Like, why aren't these things getting fixed? There are some issues you guys have had. For years and, and Castro. I didn't, that was the one part I was kind of like left in dark a little bit. I wish he had addressed a couple things more specifically. I don't think he knew what
[01:12:26] Sam Rhee: fit
[01:12:27] David Syvertsen: response was to all that.
Yes. Again, Dave really did disconnect himself from the sport. Right over the
[01:12:31] Sam Rhee: past few months, all Dave basically said, you know, because he didn't know what any of the controversy was. So Savon had to explain it to him. Like for example, in the semi-final the rope length was too long or the judging was problematic.
And he said if somebody says, this is the way it's always been, that's not acceptable for his, if, if it was his team he didn't actually say that. That's what CrossFit. The sport was actually saying. Right. Right. And I will say, I went back and looked at what Justin Berg said about some of these issues.
And he said, we're leaving a semi-final stage that is exciting for us, but surfaced a lot of gaps in our new system. It's a system that we feel comfortable with and we wanna lean into, but we know that there have been gaps in communication and in some. Cases gaps in accountability, communication.
Right? So listen, they're
[01:13:14] David Syvertsen: acknowledging it. They are. I mean, they've done that. They've done this in the past though. So I'm curious to see, like, they're very big on, like, we're gonna try to improve this sport. We hear what your criticisms are. We're gonna
[01:13:22] Sam Rhee: try. And then the same shit happens. That is true now.
So in the old days, I think nothing would've been said. Yeah, they would've fixed them. Yeah. Like Dave Castro would've, ripped someone a new a-hole. Yeah. But they wouldn't have said anything externally. Yeah. At least this time they're saying. Stuff. Yep. And I think the truthers are always just looking to find
[01:13:41] David Syvertsen: yes.
Something to complain about something to complain. I mean, that's people in general, right.
[01:13:44] Sam Rhee: But you know what castor said, listen, if you wanna complain about the sport or judging or how they do these things, that's totally fine. Yep. It's you know, don't bitch about home office and what they're doing with affiliates and the community.
Yeah. And, and growing. Yeah.
[01:13:59] David Syvertsen: CrossFit as I love how Castro separates sport and community and affiliates. And like, we've done this on our podcast multiple times. Yeah. Like we really, the further this goes, we have to keep it separate. Yep. Like the CrossFit games, it's not what we do here. Nope. Has nothing to do with what's going on in our affiliate.
And hopefully with Dave in, it sounds like he's gonna be connecting a lot of dots, between affiliates and coaches and seminar staff. Home office and the games, let him be that guy that, but like, I think we as CrossFitters should really, and Savon needs to separate the two. The last
[01:14:29] Sam Rhee: thing I wanna say about what I took away from this was the mention about Nicole Carroll mm-hmm
So he asked how she was doing, and he said, I'm not gonna comment on it, but then, Savons so sneaky. He kind like works around it. He's good, man. He is good. And he basically got him to say Dave Castro to say that. She she's been a rock for the people for the past five or six months, she stepped up to a new level of leadership.
And so basically has said that, as quiet as she's been mm-hmm publicly. Yep. She has also been all in, in terms of the existing leadership and the direction that the company's
[01:15:03] David Syvertsen: going in. Yeah. And she, I don't think she gets enough credit and it's partially, cause we just don't hear from her that much, I think.
Did she delete her Instagram? Is it back? I don't even know. No it's up. Okay. But she. She's one of the main, main, main forces behind the growth of CrossFit and the quality control of CrossFit and how things have just gotten better over the years. And I hope that she becomes, she gets her FaceTime at some point, not because she wants it or, I mean, who knows what she wants, but I think it'd be good for us to hear. And a lot of, honestly, like I know we've had people tell us we didn't need to have more women on our podcast. Like, I, I think it would be good for the females, the women of CrossFit to have that kind of voice, cause I feel like I really relate to Dave and it might be partially as a man, as a father, he talked about, he got. Thinking a little bit about like, sorry about his kids and his family, how he doesn't put that on Instagram and why that's the case. And I just like hearing him talk about that stuff as a man also has a CrossFitter and as a coach, and I think for the women of CrossFit, I think it would be really cool to kind of get her out her face on camera and just let us listen to everything she has to say.
She, she never
[01:16:05] Sam Rhee: has done that, but she is probably in my opinion, the person with the most integrity CrossFit yep. With the most longevity. So when, and the most credibility too, the most credibility, when, when the whole thing went down with Glassman, she resigned and stepped away. Yeah. When, when all of the allegations, all of the issues she left CrossFit yep.
And stepped away from what was something that she was there from the beginning. Yep. And then three weeks after that, after. Got Greg Glassman to leave. They hired Eric Rosa. Yep. She announced she was coming back. Yep. To me, the fact that she was willing to step away. Mm-hmm, the willing, the fact that she was willing to come back.
And the fact that even though she hasn't said boo. Yep. But you can tell how, how much of her role she, her question
[01:16:50] David Syvertsen: spoke loud so loud.
[01:16:51] Sam Rhee: And so wherever Nicole Carroll goes for me as someone who believes in CrossFit and is looking for how is CrossFit going to be successful? Dave Castro, two.
[01:17:02] David Syvertsen: It's Nicole Carroll.
Yeah. Awesome. All right. So yeah. Thank you guys for listening. The that's Dave Castro is back. Maybe someday we'll have him on here. I am wearing my Dave Castro shirt, so I hope maybe we can get him to see that, but so glad he is back. I think it's gonna only improve what we're trying to do here.
And if you guys have any time, I would, I know it's a hour and 48 minutes outta your life. I would go, try to find that YouTube channel, find that episode with Dave it's it's worth. Listen. All right. Thank you guys.
