S02E72 SHOULD ATHLETES COACH OTHER ATHLETES?

Suppose you are taking a CrossFit or other fitness class. The person next to you is not doing the workout properly. Barbell form is not correct. Should you speak up and help that athlete? What if the coach is so busy they don't notice the problem? Should you help?

Dave and Sam discuss situations athletes face (even coaches taking someone else's class) and how, if at all, athletes should be coaching other athletes.

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S02E72 SHOULD ATHLETES COACH OTHER ATHLETES

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: Welcome back to the Hert podcast. I am coach David s here with my cohost and coach, Dr. Sam Rhee. We are gonna talk about a topic that I. I can feel the head nods of every CrossFit coach as I approach this topic, and especially owners as well. This is one of the topics. I don't talk to a lot of CrossFit box owners but when I do, I feel like this topic always comes up.

This has come up at our gym multiple times. It's the line of trying to blend how much an athlete should help out coaching , you know, And it sounds like a catch 22 there. This is what I mean. All right. At every cross of class, there's a. And then there are athletes and you try to separate them as much as possible.

Like, Hey, the coach is in charge. The athletes are trying to follow the direction of the coach just for the sake of the class, for the sake of respect. But it goes a little bit deeper than that. We won't get into it, but what happens? This has happened in every gym I've been to, this has happened with almost, I've heard every talk coach talk about this.

When an athlete starts to coach, Another athlete. Another athlete, whether it's during a class, whether it's in a text message, whether it's on social media. Is there a place for that? Should they do that? Should they not do that? I want to talk about both perspectives, and I'm gonna try as hard as I can, even though I am more coached than I am athlete, to not purposely take one side because I want coaches to hear what I had to say about it.

And some of you might be surprised, but I also want athletes to hear what I had to say about it. And I'm gonna start off on the, I have the coach's back side. All right? The athlete. If, if you wanna ask me yes or no, should an athlete ever coach an athlete? The the answer is no. Keep your mouth shut.

You're come, you're come here to work out. The coach is gonna help you out. Even if you see the most horrific movement across the gym from you, right? Or you see someone really struggling. If I, if push came to shove, I had to give you a yes or no. The athletes should never coach another athlete. And for some of you, that answer is good enough that, Hey, you know what?

I'll keep my mouth shut, do my thing, stay in my lane. Right? And Sam, opening thoughts on that stance?

[00:02:06] Sam Rhee: The rule of thumb is if look , at, I mean I look at the bison coaches taking class as athletes, and when you look at these bison coaches, None of them. I could say pretty much almost none of 'em, I'm trying to think, would actually sit there and coach in class.

They're taking the class. Yeah. I know when I'm taking a class, I have no interest or brain power in coaching somebody else. Yeah. All I'm trying to do. Is, do my workout as best as I possibly can. Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:36] David Syvertsen: Get,

[00:02:36] Sam Rhee: get away from us when we're working out . Exactly. And you know, you'll see amazing athletes who are our coaches.

You don't see Brian DeCarlo going around giving everyone lifting tips. Yeah. He's just focused on doing what he's doing. Right. And you every, every coach does that. Yeah. So, If a coach isn't sitting there coaching other athletes while they're taking the class, why should an athlete take like coach other people?

[00:02:57] David Syvertsen: That's a good point, and I will say there's, I know several people in our gym that have coached at other gyms before, and this is hard for them and I can empathize with them a lot is they're used to coaching, they're used to being. The person in the room that's helping, or the person that's in charge and they do have a wealth of knowledge and yes, they can help.

I'm not gonna go on the side and say an athlete can't help another athlete. There are a lot of athletes capable of helping other athletes, so I'm never gonna come across as, nope, the coach is the only one that knows their stuff. But it's a slippery slope, and I think if the athlete ever feels inclined to help someone out if they start doing it.

Okay, And I'm gonna give you a few reasons why you shouldn't, but, we'll, we'll get into that a little bit later. But I just wanna say if, if this athlete starts to help that athlete out and someone else notices, then the other person starts to do it and then you, and all of a sudden you have three or four different interactions of.

A coach trying to help an athlete, this athlete, helping that athlete add athlete, helping that athlete, you lose, You lose a lot of the cohesion in a class when that starts to happen. And I think one of the most overlooked components to a quality CrossFit facility, CrossFit box, is the cohesion of a class.

How smooth it runs, how smooth it operates, how everyone's on the same page, the second someone takes it on themselves to get in front of others. And start to take their own direction and pave their own path. You start to lose that cohesion. Are you gonna ruin the gym? Probably not, but you could put a negative damper on that class for a lot of different reasons.

And I think one thing that I think most athletes are unaware of when they are feeling inclined to coach another athlete, they don't know the other. They just don't, they saw someone do a bad deadlift or a bad snatch or, you know, they're chicken winging the muscle up, or they can't figure out the kip. You don't know the interactions that athlete has had with the coach over the past two weeks, three weeks, four years.

You know, you don't know some of their physical limitations. You don't know some of their emotional states. You don't know how they responded to this kind of coaching, but they did not respond to that kind of coaching. You just, there's too much unknown with the athlete to athlete coaching and that.

That's, that's the my biggest thing that I've talked to other coaches when we talk about this, like, Hey, so and so is, you know, starting to mess up the class a little bit because they always feel like they have to help someone out. We always come back to that line, like the person just doesn't know any

[00:05:25] Sam Rhee: thoughts?

Yeah, I. I don't like taking away from the coach who's coaching class. Right. They have points to make. They're, they're focusing on certain points of performance. Right? If Mike Dator is talking about using a tripod stance or, pressure on your foot when you're squatting, and then I'm sitting there telling someone about something else, then I'm taking away from Deltor trying to.

All of these athletes, right? That's not my role, right? And I really respect the coaches here. Whatever it is that they're doing in class, I trust and believe that they're doing the right thing. They're gonna see the athlete doing what it is that they're doing. And if they happen to miss it, fine, they miss it.

But, but it's not for me to sit there and intervene and, and say something, Right. And. . And like you said, and I know a lot of these athletes as a coach. Mm-hmm. , like I've watched them mm-hmm. , but I'm still not gonna sit there even though I do know something about them to say something. Right. You know, that's not my responsibility.

Yeah. And heaven forbid if I, like, if I was in that role where I didn't know that person at all. Mm-hmm. , Wow. That would be. Really presumptuous and potentially dangerous for me to say something. Yeah.

[00:06:33] David Syvertsen: And I, I think one of the worst things an athlete can do when you're talking about coaching other athletes, tell them to put more weight on the bar and you know, and we've had that, and this is years ago, so, you know, we don't have to try and get it to who it was.

Most of you guys don't know, but we had, we've had athletes here. In the middle of a strength session, watch someone really struggle through a lift and like, Let's go, go heavier. Come on. You could do it. You could. And they come from a good place. They always do. And like that's, that's where this gets a little tough to deal with.

Like you always have someone that's coming from a good place, They think the person across the gym, but I can almost guarantee you that the person after, if I'm, if I'm an athlete and I'm helping Vivian hit her squat, she hits the a 95 pound front squat, and I, I get. Pumped up high five fist pound. I'm like, Put another 15 pounds on that bar.

Let's go. Let, let's, let's go for a heavier one. You know, chances are you didn't watch Vivian after her squat. You didn't see how she walked around. You just see how she like grabbed her back a little bit or you don't have the memory bang to know that three months ago when she went for the one 10 front squat, it didn't, She hurt her.

These are the kind of things that coaches know or at least we talk to each other about. And that's why even if you really are trying to do this out of support for another athlete, it, it's best to just kind of under know what you don't know, you know? And just understand that there's a time and place to, to, you know, tell people to push a little harder at the end of the workout.

Clap your hands, right? But you can support someone without telling them what to. And I think that's something that everyone needs to kind of take away from this conversation is, you know, support can come in so many different ways. As an athlete, it probably should not come in the way of coaching or tell them to go harder, faster, heavier, you know, because there's a lot of negative effects that can come from that.

So that, that's kind of, Now what about the athlete Sam, that eventually one day wants to be a coach and they're trying to show other coaches that like, Hey, I know my stuff. What's your stance on that? Like if some, if you came up to someone said like, Hey, like I try not to talk ab, try not to coach as an athlete and just be an athlete, do your thing, and they come back to you and say, Well, you know, someday I really want to coach.

Like what's your response?

[00:08:45] Sam Rhee: I can't imagine anyone actually saying that. I can't imagine someone saying, I wanna be a coach, so I want to start talking to other athletes and coaching them. Yeah, that would blow me away.

[00:08:56] David Syvertsen: Really? Yeah. So

[00:08:57] Sam Rhee: you wanna have a response? I, I don't know. I would be flabbergasted because before I, I was, how about this,

[00:09:02] David Syvertsen: you know, that they wanted to coach are kind of to show the people that they know what they're talking about.

[00:09:07] Sam Rhee: Life is not an audition for every, I mean, when you're auditioning to be a coach, Coaching others in lieu while another coach's coaching Yeah. Is not the way

[00:09:18] David Syvertsen: to audition. Yeah. Right. It could actually set

[00:09:20] Sam Rhee: you back. Right. So what would I want to see in a potential coach? Mm-hmm. , someone who follows the directions, they move well.

Mm-hmm. they, are a great. Athlete by their standards. Right. And positive presence. And they're very positive, right? So they're adding to the class rather than detracting and Right. And if they're coaching, more likely than not, they're detracting from the class presence itself. Right. If they're distracting from the coach.

Not making, you know, I mean, if you could make that coach better in some way in your class, by either setting the right example, right, doing the right thing, being the person who adds a positive presence, right? Man, I would wanna pick that person out to be a coach, right? Not because they're sitting there telling me how telling, Nick had a front squat, right?

Like better. Yeah. That, that is someone who I wouldn't

[00:10:09] David Syvertsen: want to be a coach. Yeah. So the point of that is like if you are kind to show a coach, show someone that you wanna coach and you are a good coach and you know your stuff, you could actually be setting yourself back by interjecting and coaching when you shouldn't be coaching.

Another angle I wanna throw this at, and this is from. perspective of the athlete that's being over coached by the coach and the other athletes, right? So if you're an athlete and you have someone barking instructions at you, that is not a coach. I've seen this at competition before as recent as yesterday.

And again, everyone is always coming from the right place with this, and I've made this mistake, so I don't wanna put anyone on blast year. I've made this mistake at a competition. Where someone's clearly struggling with a movement. It could be a lift, it could be a gymnastics, it could be the pace of the workout, it could be how long they're resting, and they look into the crowd.

You know, there's 9, 8, 10 people there supporting them, and at some point there's seven people saying a different cue, . And the person, you know, the person just looks like wide eyed, like someone's. You know, you know, like, let's, let's say it's, it's a power clean. Like get your butt down at the start, like shrug harder, keep your knuckles down.

Get your head high, get your elbows through, and like the person's just like, wait, what? That is a very similar situation. That when a coach, a responsible coach in a class is usually focusing on one or two cues. It could be with one person or it could be the entire class. Like usually when I coach a cleaner or a deadlift, I try to just focus on one rather than give them 18 different things.

Right. And just hope that one of 'em sticks. Right. And I'm still working on that. As a coach, you have to try to get less wordy sometimes. Right. And, but that is what the athlete is going through. It's if the, if the coach just spent 10 minutes. Emphasizing the position of your body off the ground when you start a power clean, right?

And that's what they're focusing on. And all of a sudden you got some athlete coming over and like, yo, if you keep your knuckles down, shrug harder, get your head high and get your elbows really through. Like it's, you're, you're gonna get that lift, you know, like, Hey, you came from a good place and hey, they're not bad hugs either, but now this person is gonna take the attention away.

From the starting position that their coach is having them work on, and now instead of you getting them better at the lift, you just threw too much at them. Now they're no longer focusing on what the coach wanted them to focus on. Right. I think that's a, that's really hard for an athlete to take a lot of different cues, and then that gets compounded if the athletes are coming, if those different cues are coming from four different people and after every single time they lift, it almost gets to the point you're like, All right, like, I don't even know what I'm

[00:12:37] Sam Rhee: doing anymore.

You know, they emphasize that in the L too. They said, Listen, and we were taking athletes through progressions for movements that, and. And there was an athlete who was following what the coach was doing, but was not picking up on some other things. Like maybe they were swaying their back a little bit or something.

Right, Right. And he said, That's okay. Listen, we're focusing on this first. Right. And then we'll focus on the other stuff. In addition, but like you said, you can't throw too much in there. Right. And I know as a coach, I'm like you said, you have to focus on certain points of performance that day. You can't focus on 12.

Right. You're focusing on two. Mm-hmm. . And maybe the next time around you make a mental note. Okay. Well, Susan did this really well and I did notice the other thing, but we're gonna, we're gonna focus, focus on it one thing at a time. Mm-hmm. , and you're right. Even a well-meaning knowledgeable athlete who knows what's going on mm-hmm.

and says, Oh, you are not, you are also not doing this. You're gonna, you're gonna blow their mind. Right? And it's like, golf swings or anything else that's complicated. Yeah. You have to focus on a progression. That's a nice parallel right there.

[00:13:43] David Syvertsen: That's a great parallel because every time I golf, you know, you have a bad drive and you focus on this like, Oh no, it must have been this, and then it's that.

And then you go to swing your next drive on the next hole, and you're thinking about four different things, and then you end up having your worst drive of. Because your, your mind went in too many different places. Too many different

[00:14:00] Sam Rhee: places. Yeah. And I feel like, athletes can be very knowledgeable. Well meaning they might be exactly right that athlete isn't doing that thing that they're supposed to be doing.

Right. But that's not the point. Yeah. Of what that might be at that situation.

[00:14:13] David Syvertsen: Yeah. So that's gonna help me turn the conversation to the other side. So I'm big. You know, you guys could probably clearly see what side of Sam and I are on of, of this debate, but I do think in any responsible debate or two-sided discussion, you should spend time talking about the other side.

And I am gonna look at it from the athletes side, and you might even feel like I am defending the athlete that does the over coaching here. But again, I want everyone, coaches included to, to get both perspectives. And let's go into the fact that a lot of times not. A lot of times an athlete that does take it on themselves to coach what they are coaching is correct, right?

Like they do know their stuff. I know some people here that are really good with Olympic lifting or gymnastics or endurance and. They, or they've just been doing CrossFit for 10 years. They've seen so many different things, right? And they do, they have a wealth of knowledge and they see someone that just started last week and they come over and they want to help them with the tip or help them with the hand position on snatch or hook grip, right?

You can understand that in some cases. , an athlete could be like, You know what, I can help this person out after everything else. I'm just gonna go be a good person. And you know, honestly, you're not wrong in in if you're just talking about are you a good person or not. You know, there there's other angles to it, but Sam thoughts on this is gonna be hard, but defending the athlete a little bit and acknowledging that they, a lot of them do know their stuff.

Absolutely.

[00:15:37] Sam Rhee: I. . Honestly, I've broken my own rule and I have coached other athletes. Mm-hmm. it, 99% of the time is with Susan. Yeah. Right. It's someone, you know, my spouse, I know her well. Yep. It sometimes , I'm, I'm a little careful when I do coach her because uh, there, you know, because we're married.

Yep. And I do remember one time specifically when I was next to her working out and her wall balls weren't reaching the target. And I was like, You know, you're not hitting your wall balls to target. And pretty much 99% of what happens if she gets pissed. Yeah. . And then she realizes I'm. Really trying to be a dick.

I'm trying, I'm, I

[00:16:24] David Syvertsen: work, I part of a coach's job is to be

[00:16:26] Sam Rhee: a dick sometimes. Well, I wanna make sure she doesn't, she wants to make standard. It's not like she's necessarily realizing or she realizes it and she says, Listen, that that was the end of 200 wall balls, Right? Like, I know I wasn't reaching standard.

Okay. Right, right. , like, there's no way I could meet standard at that point. I was just doing my best to survive. Yeah. And I'll be like, Okay. Yeah. You know, sometimes she does ask me for, was I, how did this look? Or how did that look? And, and sometimes I will give my advice, but, but very sparingly.

I usually say, You gotta talk to Dave about it. Right. Because she, she's doing a lot of next level. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, sometimes I will do it. It's not often. And I don't think that you're gonna go to CrossFit jail for occasionally giving a tip or two. Right. It's just that constant

[00:17:10] David Syvertsen: Yeah, it's the constant thing.

Yeah. Like example, right? Like I, if we're tomorrow's workout, right? We have thrusters, right? Like, let's say you have someone that's somewhat, no, they don't really, you know, there's like a correct way and wrong way to hold the barbell on a thruster, right? And if you have the mobility, you should kind of get that bar in your collarbone and let it sit in your fingertips, right?

And kind of just grab it on the way up, right? If someone just started and they're kind of, you know, gripping this thing with their palm and their elbows are behind the bar, if you simply go like, Hey man, like try to get that bar, is that too much coaching to me? Something positional like that, like I'm totally fine with an athlete saying like, Hey, you know, maybe, you know, just try see if Steve, it helps you to put that bar in the front rack, but know what the best move to do for an athlete.

We're gonna go back to being, having the coaches back here. is tell the. You know, I've had so many people do that over the years, like, hey, so and so is, is not, you know, keeping their heels down when they squat or they're not gripping the, the bar correctly on the thrusters. And in a big class, you know, the coach has to not get but heard about that and like, just say like, okay, you know, like, I didn't see it.

There's 24 people in class, blah, blah, whatever reason, right? You go over and you do the coaching and I think that that's, Kind of the best way to handle something. Like if you really see this burning, like, all right, his back is really rounded right now. I'm just gonna go tell the coach real quick and to help him out.

Absolutely.

[00:18:26] Sam Rhee: It, it, there are two types of things. One is like safety, so if someone's moving in a really unsafe manner right. Definitely point that out to the coach, right? For sure. Mm-hmm. , like, I see someone really leaning back, or, or they're, they're really potentially compromising their shoulder on something, right?

Yeah. Absolutely. I will, I will not say it to the athlete. I. Unless it's Susan . And then, but I will definitely let the coach know. Let the coach know, like, yeah, wow. He's really like, he must be, Is he tired? Is he really swaying like that? Mm-hmm. . Otherwise even most of the time when I see someone not moving well mainly because they're relatively new or I know a lot of athletes, they're not moving well cuz they bite off.

I have like two people in mind in the six and 7:00 AM class where they're just, it's too heavy. They wanna RX everything. Yeah. Right. And they're sitting there struggling. Yeah. And I know their movement pattern is bad because of it. Mm-hmm. , I don't say anything. Yeah. I mean, I won't say a, a thing. Right.

Because I know that athlete. Yep. I know. No matter what I say, they can't even do it right anyway. Right. It's too heavy. They're too tired. Mm-hmm. and. I gotta, I can barely do my own work right now. Right. So maybe after class I might mention it to, the coach, like, Hey, Mike so and so. Wow.

That was pretty rough for

[00:19:39] David Syvertsen: him. Yeah. Or something. No, no. An environment like that, situation like that, where I think an athlete could do, it's not coaching, but it's helping. And I think that's the, the line that needs to be drawn is like, there's helping, there's coaching. You gotta, you gotta know which one you're doing.

If you're helping, I think it's okay that after the class is over, like people clean their stuff up instead of going to the person and saying, You should do this, you should do that. This is how you do this. Maybe give, especially someone that's new, because this always helps, is kind of like little case study of yourself.

Like, Hey, like back when I first started, like I. Really thought that I was strong enough to handle that 20 pound wall ball, but I just noticed that like I couldn't squat with it all the way down. I couldn't hit the wall. So I really went to a lighter ball for like my first three months. And like sometimes a little thing like that is gonna go so much deeper than you telling someone how to, like, you gotta get lower in your squat.

You gotta do this. Like having a new person get a case study person from an actual CrossFitter that's doing well, right. I've been here a long time kind of relating to the, oh, like I used, used to be in my shoes. All right, so maybe if I follow the progression you did, it'll help me out a little bit.

That's not coaching to me, that's just like helping the person understand that, hey, getting pretty fit with CrossFit can take a pretty long time, and I want you to know where I was when I started five, six years ago.

[00:20:56] Sam Rhee: Yeah, that's a good point. I'll do that too. I, I'm thinking of this one person and I went to him and I said, Yeah, that was a really hard workout.

Yeah. Especially at that weight. Right. And he actually said, Well, maybe. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Maybe I should have gone down a little bit on it. Yeah. And I was like, Yeah, you know, but you know, it's really hard to move well in that fourth round or fifth round with that. Right. I was like that. That sounds good.

Yeah.

[00:21:18] David Syvertsen: Like that, That's a great little just. A great avenue to help someone without getting too specific and feel like you're coaching them. You know, like those conversations that happen after the class, I think are clutch. Now here's, here's another thing, Sam, would you ever, you know, there's people that will post videos of themselves, like doing a lift or something or doing a workout.

And is it technically coaching? If you are at home and you, you're just surfing through your Instagram and you saw, you know, some random person do a snatch, and you're like, you know what? Like, I think I could, you know, just send them a quick note about this lift. Is that technically coaching, do you think, to you?

No, No. Not at all. I don't think so either. I, I think that if someone is gonna take time outta their day at home, not at the. Not in a class setting where, you know, other people are coaching them at the same time and say like, Hey, here's a little note about your lift. I think this could help if you, This helped me a lot.

This helped this person a lot. I, I think that's totally within the grounds. I think athletes should, if you really wanna have that strong desire to help someone out. We're really trying to keep it out of the gym, you know, like, you know, Ash has those, those house rules posted somewhere. I think they're in the corner now.

But one of the biggest things that we had initially as a rule in the gym is the, the coaches do the coaching. The athletes do the working out, and just keep it simple. Keep it black and white like that. But when you're not in the gym, that we're not gonna tell you what to do outside the gym. We're not gonna tell you who to text or who not to send videos of.

I think that's, , the opportunity lives with a coach, with an athlete that feels like they have something to offer another athlete. It would be outside of the outside of the walls. Absolutely.

[00:22:45] Sam Rhee: I can think of a number of times I've sent my lift videos to different people. Yeah. To get their opinion about it.

Mm-hmm. , and they weren't necessarily my coach, it was just someone else. Yeah. And. What's wrong with that? No.

[00:22:57] David Syvertsen: Yeah, nothing. You, that's where I think you have to, you know, coach an owner, like you have to remove yourself from trying to police what people do outside the gym. Yeah.

[00:23:04] Sam Rhee: I mean, I, no one should be feel uncomfortable soliciting advice from anyone outside the gym on their own.

You know, if I go drop in on some other box, you know, on Sunday and they give me advice and, and all that, Like, what's wrong with that?

[00:23:19] David Syvertsen: Yeah, Yeah. Nothing. Right, exactly. I agree. So another thing I, I think an. Has the grounds or could make a case is. if they think the coach, and this is gonna get a little hairy if they think the coach is purposely not paying attention.

Like if you see a coach like constantly sending text messages or you see a coach you know, eating their lunch or they're not even in the room. Like we've, we've heard horror stories of. People dropping in at gyms and the coach isn't in the room during the workout, like they're eating lunch in the back room, or, you know, I would say in our day and age, it's more common where someone's just constantly on the phone doing their own thing well, and not really paying attention to the people in class.

And an athlete might just, you know what, like. F this coach. I don't respect this coach. I love this gym. Do you think they have a right to be like, If this coach is not gonna watch, I'm gonna watch and I'm gonna help. What do you think? No two wrongs

[00:24:07] Sam Rhee: don't make a right . Absolutely not. This is a, So what do you do

[00:24:11] David Syvertsen: as an athlete in that

[00:24:12] Sam Rhee: situation?

Oh, well this is, This goes beyond athletes coaching athletes, right? This is a. Systems issue. Okay. And

[00:24:20] David Syvertsen: bring it to the owner. Do you wanna tattle tail like

[00:24:23] Sam Rhee: that? I mean, it, it depends on the situation. Yeah. If, if you don't, if you're okay with the coach, bring it up to the coach. Yeah. But that takes a lot of coones to do that.

Most of the time it does. You may need to go with the owner, but honestly, in this day and age, people are so nonconfrontational unless you love the box. Yeah. Unless you're in love with the people there. Yep. If you're pretty new, I'd go find another box. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I mean, I, I wouldn't wanna necessarily have to troubleshoot somebody else's issues mm-hmm.

about this. Mm-hmm. , I mean, if it happens once or occasional, Yeah. You know, not so bad. You know, your coach, you should pick your box based on your coaches and the environment they provide the education. They are, you know, what they do for you. Yeah. And if you have a lot of coaches that are doing that, that's, that's a red flag.

Yeah. It's a major red flag. You should not be sitting there saying, Oh, I'll take it upon myself to now coach people

[00:25:17] David Syvertsen: and like, and trust me. Over the years, guys, I've had people reach out to me about coaches in the past and, you know, so and so. Didn't seem interested. Some so and so seemed stressed out.

Maybe they're going through something so and so was not paying attention. And you know, there's always two sides to every story. I would never go to a coach and be like, Yo, you suck what had happened. I would always just go and talk to them and be like, again, you always have to ask questions before you make accusations, right?

So, you know, you don't take one person's opinion and, and, and run with it. But I do think in my, my opinion, like that move would just be, go to the head coach or go to the owner. And just maybe ask a question or two, like, Hey, do you guys have any standards or systems for a coach paying attention? There are some people that are needier than others, right?

They always want the attention every time they come to the gym. That's always tough to deal with as well. But if it is, if it's a prevalent problem that keeps popping up and an athlete sees that the coach is not doing their job, the move is not to go coach. Take it on yourself to coach the move is to probably go to the owner, go to the head coach, or if you wanna be confrontational, go to that coach actually in real time and, and, and bring it up and just see if you can find a solution to that problem.

But I understand that the athlete has a burning desire to help, like what we talked about earlier. But like Sam said, it's not the right decision to. Take it on yourself to start coaching Too wrong. Don't make it right. So the, the last thing I wanna talk about in regard to this topic is I want to just use a few examples.

We don't have to get too individual at our gym because a lot of people listen to this podcast that don't know who Laura Terry is or Aaron Syvertsen. Right? But I want you guys to, every now and then, if you feel this burning desire to. I want you to spend some time observing some people in classes, whether you're actually working out in the class or you're here early or you're just, you know, sitting around.

Watch some of these like main athletes that have been here for a long time. Some of our best athletes, they don't do it. , they're, they're not, You know, I don't think Aaron's ever bared any instructions on how to do handstand pushups. Not that he knows how to do it. I'm just kidding. Not like the, I don't like, But look, Laura, Terry's been CrossFitting for longer than almost everyone in our gym.

And unless someone seeks her out and says, Hey, Laura, like, what do you think about this? Or How can I get better at this? She comes in, she's a foot soldier, she does her thing, she works hard, she goes home, right? And there's nothing wrong with that. And I think that's something that we should all. Kind of put more thought into it is observing some of these athletes that have been here for a really long time, have a steady presence at the gym and see how they interact with other athletes.

[00:27:42] Sam Rhee: Absolutely. That goes to the, what I said about bison coaches taking classes. When I see them, they're doing their job as foot soldiers. They're not sitting there trying to over coach. That's what you do. Yeah. Every time you take a class, you are not the person sitting there and people will often come to you.

Well,

[00:27:58] David Syvertsen: I'll bring that, that, that was gonna be one of my closing remarks as

[00:28:00] Sam Rhee: well. But keep going and, and bug you about it. And yet every time you've taken a class, you have never. , I would know you were a coach. Right. And I think that that's, that should be the rule of thumb for all coaches taking classes for sure.

People should not know you're a coach. Yeah, that's a good point. And if you do that, you'll be, you'll be fine. Yeah.

[00:28:19] David Syvertsen: Yeah. I, I will say that I've been in class several times where, and you know, I've coached a lot here and I've coached a lot of people here. And if I'm in class Ah, should I say this? Yeah.

Like, I don't want to, I don't want to coach when I'm working out either. So like, I don't like being, I don't wanna caught being bothered, but like, I don't want to take away from my warmup or, you know, just get my mind ready to go teach the kip to somebody. Right? But every time that has happened, I don't think I've ever told someone like, you know, get away from me.

I'm not coaching, right? But I ha I will say this, If you've ever sought me out or if you ever sought another coach out, I shouldn't just bring myself up with that. It, it will make that coach nervous. Yep. I don't like, I've been in your class before, Sam Delto, Liz. and someone comes and asks me to help them with their kip like my, like I have an alarm in my head, like I don't wanna offend and like I'll text the coach after, like, Yeah.

Just so you know. But I'll even try to, I'll do, I'll be so quiet about it and be so like, I'll give two word cue and just walk away kind of thing. So I think an athlete, it kind of help us out by not seeking out coaching. If a coach is in your class, you know, go ask the coach. But it is, you know, the coach's role here is to help people.

And I think there's nothing wrong with the coach saying like, Hey, I gotta get ready for my warmup, or, Hey, I don't wanna disrespect the coach. Maybe ask Liz or Ask Mike or ask Adam. But that, that is a tough spot to be in. And I think athletes maybe put some thought into making sure you don't put a coach in that spot.

[00:29:42] Sam Rhee: I mean, it's a, there's a fine line. Like I will often get asked by someone like, people like. Dude, what are you starting, What's your start weight on this? The weights? Yeah. Yeah. Or how are you breaking up this the pullups today? That's fine. You know, stuff like that. Yeah. I have no problem with any of that, but yeah.

Fixing movement, all that stuff. Fixing movements is an issue. Yeah. Yeah. You know, stuff like evaluation, like of movement is an issue, right? Yep. Yeah, that, that sort of starts going into the line of coaching. Coaching. Yeah. And you're right. Every coach who gets asked that stuff in the middle of a class is going to feel very nervous.

Because like you said, you don't, you're a coach. You don't wanna disrespect the coach who's coaching. Yeah. And it's, Or set

[00:30:23] David Syvertsen: the

[00:30:23] Sam Rhee: example. Yeah. It's exam and honestly, like I said, we're focused on trying to. Move as well as we can during the workout

[00:30:30] David Syvertsen: itself, right. As well. I agree. All right guys, well, thank that.

Hopefully that shed some light on just a, a topic that I've had come up since 2013, you know, several times and several gyms, not just people here. Because again, it's, it's a, it's a group of people that. Are selfless for the most part, and I do have a lot to offer in terms of help, but I just think there's a time and place for it.

I almost

[00:30:52] Sam Rhee: forgot it was one other thing I wanna ask. How about in, we just talked about open gym last episode. What if someone comes in during open gym with another athlete and is like coaching them during open

[00:31:00] David Syvertsen: gym? That is a good angle. . I mean, we could take that to the extreme of saying like a non coach, can they come in here and train someone Well in a facility, you know, like that's, again, that's a slippery slope.

I mean, just helping someone at open gym, in my opinion, it's not a class, it's not structured. I'm all about it. You know, like if you know, if a non coach wants to help out another non coach with UPS on a Sunday, I'm all about it. You know, I think that's, that's part of the community field. And again, it, my, my deal is always the structure of a class can't get screwed up by someone else trying, an athlete, coaching an athlete.

And even though I can understand where they're coming from but when there is no structure of an actual class, I'm all about it. What about

[00:31:40] Sam Rhee: you? Yeah, I agree with that. I think we shouldn't have egos in terms of No. We can only coach bison athletes. Yes. Yeah. You know, if someone says, Hey, they're really good at something.

Yeah. And hey, you know, they're there on Sunday. Mm-hmm. , it's like, Hey, can you watch me do this? Like, how do you do that? Yeah. You know?

[00:31:55] David Syvertsen: Absolutely. Yeah. Just, I would just make sure it's not, doesn't turn into like a structure, like, Hey guys, I'm doing a muscle clinic on Sunday at nine o'clock. You know, I think it's gotta be a little bit more low key than that, because again, the second it goes to a structure like you're, you're starting to shadow that line and you're probably crossed it.

All right. Thank you guys. We will see you next week and have an awesome week.