S03E132: CrossFit Affiliate - Community or Gym? Building Both for Success
What truly turns a CrossFit box into a community? Coaches David Syvertsen @davesy85 and Sam Rhee @bergencosmetic dissect the concept of community building within CrossFit Bison and how it has transformed from just a bunch of gym goers to a tightly-knit, diverse community.
Community building within a fitness space is no easy feat. It's a balancing act between pushing members to go beyond their perceived limits and fostering an atmosphere of camaraderie. What is the right blend of performance and social interaction in order to create an environment where members feel both challenged and part of a family? We also delve into how essential it is to understand a potential hire as a coach, as this significantly impacts the atmosphere within the gym.
Lastly, we navigate the intricate relationship between coaching and the overall gym atmosphere and how crucial it is to welcome new members into the community. We also ponder about what type of member a community-focused gym might attract. As we share our insights and experiences, join us on this journey to build a successful CrossFit gym - a gym that's not just about breaking a sweat but about the power of community.
@crossfitbison @crossfittraining @crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate #personalizedfitness
00:00:05 Building a Community vs. A Gym
00:07:33 Building a Community Within CrossFit
00:14:50 Fragile Gym Community and Our Responsibility
00:20:43 Pros and Cons of Gym-Based Approach
00:34:19 Gym vs Community Importance
TRANSCRIPT
S03E132: CrossFit Affiliate - Community or Gym? Building Both for Success
David Syvertsen
Host
00:05
Hey everybody, welcome to the Herdfit Podcast with Dr Samri and myself, coach David Silverson. His podcast is aimed at helping anyone and everyone looking to enhance their healthy lifestyle through fitness, nutrition and, most importantly, mindset. Alright, welcome back to the Herdfit Podcast. I am Coach David Syvertsen. I'm here with my co-host, dr, and Coach Sam Rhee just two guys talking to call in at a podcast. I'm here with USC Alright, now, last time I'm using that. Sam CrossFit, bison, community or Gym, both? Okay.
00:39
If you run into a relative, a long lost friend from college, and, hey, sam, how's business, how's work going? Oh, my practice is doing great. I'm also doing some work on the side. I'm coaching at Bison, two classes a week. What's Bison? It's your short answer, it's a gym, alright.
01:02
So if you told someone that it's a community, you didn't say, you didn't mention the word gym, okay, what do you think the perception of that answer would be from that person? Cult, cult, some sort of weird church group, a social group that we met on Facebook and now we do a Zoom call every couple of weeks. I would feel the same way, right? I think I've ever told someone hey, what do you do for a living? Hey, what's Bison? I've never said community first. It's never been one of the first five things that comes out of my mouth. Oh, it's a gym. Well, it's a CrossFit gym and it's a gym that has classes every day and we start at 5 am, we go to 8.15 pm. Then you go into what CrossFit is. You go into what the workouts are like. How old are the people that go there? Are they in good shape? I would say about three to five minutes into the conversation about what I do for a living and what Bison is. That's the first time it comes up that.
02:04
Well, part of what it is it's a group of people that come in, like-minded people that love to see and be around each other, and they're just. They're trying to take care of their bodies mentally and physically. They're trying to just improve themselves, and it's a lot more motivating to do with other people than by yourself, and that's really what CrossFit has evolved into. So to me, I'm asking my question too Is Bison right one of the best CrossFits in the world? Is it a better? Is it one of the best because of the community or is it because of the gym? My answer it's the community. But I do ask myself sometimes have we evolved into more of a gym and less of a community, and I'm not.
02:48
This is not a bad thing, it's not a bad rep. Oh, people aren't as close. If anything, I think the social component to Bison is stronger than it's ever been. Some good ways, some bad ways, by the way, but I do think it's the strongest it's ever been right now. Really, I do it's not, and I'm talking. Part of that is volume. Okay, like there's a lot of different groups of friends in here and there and like every time I go on social media they're at each other's house and friends and kids are playing with each other. People are getting jobs from each other. Some people are working for other people. That kind of stuff wasn't a thing eight years ago, true, but it was tighter, but it's also just smaller. So we all kind of all kind of like friends with each other. So that's kind of where I'm going with.
03:32
This is most crosshits that do well follow this timeline. Like small, no members, two people coaching all the classes, all right. It starts to blossom a little bit. The reach gets bigger. More people and relatives of people are starting to come in. People start having kids that play with each other, working for each other, building business with each other now, but they are still coming back to the gym to work out. That's where I kind of wrestle with this idea a little bit. So I want to talk about if you're building a gym, if you're part of a gym. Are you building more of a gym workout area? Improve our physical, mental health, or are you fostering a community of people that happen to work out at each other? What are your opening thoughts?
Sam Rhee
Host
04:16
I'm trying to think about you and what you and Chris did when you guys opened and it was both. It was building a gym, but also building a group of people. If you want to call it a community, you can call it a community, but the people who stuck around and stayed with the gym were people who fit into that group or community. We had lots of people who started for a while and then they left. I could think of at least 30 people who got in, started for a while and, for whatever reason, either they didn't fit into the group or didn't fit in the community, or being part of a community wasn't their thing. They ended up going. There are some people who have stuck with bison, even though they don't do all the social stuff. They just show up and work out and they go.
David Syvertsen
Host
05:07
We have some people that show up to the social stuff and don't work out.
Sam Rhee
Host
05:13
I could call out a couple of people, but I'm not going to because I'll get into trouble. But you're right, absolutely. It's interesting to listen to you speculate about this. But then I look at what you did, what your actions were, and you built your gym based on building a community. Even if it wasn't intentional, that's what happened.
David Syvertsen
Host
05:37
Exactly so. I mean lover. Hey, greg Glassman. He has said so many things back in the early days across that still hold a lot of weight, and I remember reading an old article that he wrote and it said build the community first, the gym will come second. Or build the community first, the business will come second, meaning don't just get into this trying to make money right away and all these giveaways and gimmicks and all this stuff. Just get people together, get them to respect and like each other and build that and foster that community outside of the walls of your gym, and that is what's going to make this sustainable. That's the word that comes to my mind when you're saying what are you trying to build?
06:23
To me, if you're trying to build a community of people, bring people together. That, to me, is going to make the business side of it much more sustainable than building a gym where you're just focused on workouts and results and regionals and games and sport. To quote Jason Ackerman, competitors don't pay the bills, and what that line means is it's cool to have a lot of good athletes in your gym, especially guys that make the games. It's cool. It ain't doing shit for your business. It's just not Like there are so many good athletes out there that think they deserve a free membership or that they're going to build the business of the gym because they're you know, they rank well in the CrossFit Open and it's just not the case.
07:09
So to me, if you're putting all of your attention new gym owners, right, or current gym owners that are trying to build better business, if you're so focused and obsessed with you know how good your programming is and how good how many people can do muscle ups in your gym and how many people can make quarter finals now, right, if that's the focus of your gym, in my opinion it's not as sustainable as hey. What can I do to get people to want to come back and see each other? What can we do here to introduce strangers to each other and get them around each other enough and have a positive environment for them to be in so that when this class is over, they're still interacting with each other outside of the gym, and then it becomes friendship relationships and even further it can become marriages and kids and all that right? That's where I think we came into this process, saying we need to build the community first. The other stuff will come later on.
Sam Rhee
Host
08:07
It has to go hand in hand, because I'm thinking about our new members now who are starting and they're not coming because they want to chit chat all the time. What's true what they're doing is is they come in like I'll see a 6am, or come in and they're and he or she's relatively new, and they're paired up in the lane with someone who's been cross fitting for a while and maybe they're a similar body type and this guy's been cross fitting for a while and he sees and the new guy sees the guy who's been cross fitting for a while do an incredible performance. He is lifting really well. He's killing the wad, very true, he's doing really well. And this guy who's new, is like wow, what is this guy doing that is allowing him to perform at such a high level? He's not a pro athlete, he's just a guy who comes in, he commutes into the city just like I do, does his job, but he really cares about this and he's joking around with a bunch of people, he's enjoying himself and yet he's killing this workout. And I've seen these guys and they're fascinated and they're like, wow, this is really interesting. And so he starts coming in more regularly, he starts seeing progress himself because, let's face it, it doesn't work.
09:23
If CrossFit doesn't work but CrossFit works, that's why we're doing it is because it works. And so then they get hooked. And I just remember talking to someone at the holiday party. They were just like I can't get enough. I'm starting to get really deep into this stuff, like I'm watching stuff and I'm looking at like these videos of lifting and this and that, and that's where you get them is because CrossFit works. They see people who have improved tremendously on it and then they fall in love with the group of people who are doing it, getting super fit. And they're getting super fit and the workouts Right. So I mean that's always the honeymoon period and then you're like 15 injuries later.
10:04
You're like just wait till that first shoulder. But that's how you pull them in and that's how you build both the gym and the community at the same time.
David Syvertsen
Host
10:13
Yeah, and I think that's a question to this question. By the way, it's both. You are trying to build both and I think there's an order to it. I think community comes first, gym comes second, but there are pros and cons and if you lean towards one side, you're going to have to lean towards the other side More than the other. I want to talk about that because you have.
10:32
I think there's an art to this. There's not a science to it, which is, I think, why a lot of people owners struggle here is you have to find, like that middle ground of like we're a gym and a community, we're pushing people towards fitness and physical achievements, preparing them for, you know, the known and unknowable out there right in the real world. I Get that a lot now recently. Like people can play with their kids, they can Move boxes and do yard work without getting a key like they used to. Like I always love hearing that stuff, but I also here and like, hey, I finally met my tribe, I fed me, pulled bet, people that think like me and act like me and talk like me and I don't feel like an outcast. Like that's important too. So the answer to this a successful cross at gym they do both, but there's pros.
11:18
If you lean too hard in one direction, if you lean too hard in the community direction meaning you're only trying to build a community of people, right, you're not really paying attention to the workouts that much or being responsible with programming, you're just trying to get people in here. I actually think that leads to Burnout, slash, injury more often than focusing on it being just a gym. Because I'll tell you what, if I see this all the time, okay, I can predict didn't this a long time, what days are gonna be busy here and what days aren't, based on how cool the workout is. If I just wanted to get as many heads in here as possible, I would basically just do like 15 to 20 minute mixed modal, barbell, gymnastics, high volume body weight stuff every single day.
12:09
We do hero workouts every week. We would do the girls twice a week. We would do past open workouts every week, right, multiple times, like four or five of them, right, it'd be crowded because they're fun workouts and people come in. And if my only goal was to see a hundred ninety names on the whiteboard Every single day, that's what I would do. And I have another community issue too, but I want you to touch on that too, because, again, I like cool workouts too. There's a couple on. Look forward to this couple.
Sam Rhee
Host
12:36
I don't yes, I looked at this week and the workout you program for Thursday. I was so happy because I was like the other crap that you program for the rest of the week. I was like this is really you wouldn't want to coach the other. Oh, it's just broccoli, it's all broccoli. Like I want the. I think Wednesday's cool, but whatever, I won't be offended. I wanted I want the cherry pie, which was Thursday, like so. So just as an example, so if you didn't see the programming last, this would be last week. Actually it was a true yeah, so it would be 18 minute amrap, 9 toast, a bar 6 burpees over bar 3, heavy power cleans and that's just like. That's so cross it. I say cross fit and I was like dude, I want to do this 18 minutes.
David Syvertsen
Host
13:16
So yeah, just just straight like the last, like three minutes of that one. I can be so fun to be around right and you're gonna, everyone's gonna be on the ground Like it's gonna be. It's gonna be fun day, right.
Sam Rhee
Host
13:25
And so, but the stuff that you program for, like Monday and Tuesday or like I was just like strict press and this Goblet squads, yeah, like you know, timed stuff, and I was just like, yeah, so, but you do that all the time and the reason why you do that is because, you're right, you're not packing the gym and I've seen the workouts where, like, people have just, you know, instead of having 20, you have like 12 or 10, my house all the time, yeah, and and. And that's because you're programming holistically, right, you're programming for our capabilities to make us better, right, and some and most of the stuff that makes us better isn't the sexy stuff, it's the broccoli, and Hopefully people will understand that and that's how you retain the people for long term. Because if you programed hero wads every week and all the sexy stuff every, week and every, and it would be packed.
David Syvertsen
Host
14:16
The short term be awesome and how long would that last for?
Sam Rhee
Host
14:20
until everyone came in like beat up and totally dying. Right like You're programming for us functionally to be better over the long haul and that's where your sustained growth is gonna come from right.
David Syvertsen
Host
14:34
Another another con of thinking just community right is getting a little too wrapped up into some of the social stuff. I think the social component to CrossFit is vital for long term, but it's also the thing that can kill the quickest. Something of something happens outside the gym. We just had a big event at the party, right, and it's always a great time. We're so grateful to Sam and Susan that they do this year after year. It's like unbelievable that I almost don't believe that that they are doing this right, especially when the cops show up at 11 o'clock. And.
15:06
But the Bad things can happen when Crossfitters get drunk. It's just well. Honestly, I'm just gonna say people because, well, and especially when it's like a celebration, right, it's something that we look forward to all year. We already have people asking about what the date is next year is. They can get a baby setter, right. I mean, people really do look forward to this and you know, if the, if the bartenders have a little extra heavy pour or people have a little less discipline with how much they're drinking, how much they ate, bad things can happen. Bad enough to the point where someone might want to lose their weight, someone might want to leave the gym something might get said to someone that's like really offensive and they no longer Are friends with these people because of x, y and z. And it really was a result of the social component, which, if we didn't do it, maybe those people wouldn't be have that relationship fractured. So that's, that's a struggle I have.
Sam Rhee
Host
16:06
Sometimes you're a thousand percent right, and I would say I've been on both sides of it because when and I mean I so survive, I mean I've gone to those parties and I've gotten crazy and like Said and done things that I really wish I could have taken back right. I would say this a community should be strong enough, hopefully, yep, to kind of hold together, even though there are fractures within the social relationships, even though people do or say things that maybe weren't like the best thing to do, like at that time, or maybe in retrospect, like it was so funny because Liz, you know, my daughter came back for Thanksgiving and Sasha went and worked out and she came back and she's like Liz told me all about the time you guys were in Hoboken and I was like, oh no, that was, that was a long time ago. Okay, like don't, don't, don't do what I did. Just, you know, just remember those, learned from my mistake. I learned from my mistakes. That's exactly right.
17:08
And so I would say the first thing is is that a community should be a relatively safe space? Yep, so I don't want to judge, because I've been there. Yep, too, you should have built a community, hopefully, that can sustain and hold, even though Some crazy stuff might be happening. But I have seen many boxes, many, many, many boxes, and heard of them where they just completely fell apart because of big fractures within the social relationship with the wrong people. I mean we could just I mean you, we could name, like I like at least five off the top of my head we're just the box just totally imploded because of this.
David Syvertsen
Host
17:48
Absolutely, you're right and and so that's why I always tell our coaches Like it's such a sensitive business, like it can disappear like that for something really honestly stupid.
Sam Rhee
Host
17:58
And so, as a gym owner, as coaches, as athletes, like you should know, like it is a safe space, you should feel comfortable. It is your community, but it is also fragile in in a lot of ways and and it's it's something that you have to care about in a lot of ways, otherwise, what you assume or take for granted is you know, a good group can, you're right, it could totally fall apart.
David Syvertsen
Host
18:24
Yeah, my line on on community is always that it's built in the gym and then it's solidified and strengthened outside the gym. So if you really do want a strong, sustainable community, you do. You need to meet each other outside the gym. You need to have them come together outside the gym. It's a vital. I do think it's vital to bison's success and future success. We need to continue to do these things.
18:44
But I want it to be a responsibility that every member of the community that want that has clearly benefited from this place. That when you are out, there should be a little bit a responsibility in your head that you take on as you are representing this community. You're representing all of us. If you want to get really deep on this like Some of your decisions are gonna impact my family, my wife and my son, how I'm raising them, that's how I'm providing for my family, it's your business. So I want that to be some sort of sense of loyalty slash responsibility. That when the social stuff happens with bison and the community is coming together with the effort and thought of making it better for everybody there, there should be a little voice in your head there that there's a responsibility. But I also want you to know that that community myself, my wife and my son eventually we have your back too.
Sam Rhee
Host
19:41
Yeah, and have some forgiveness for people too. Exactly, I mean, when I'm sitting there throwing up at a home depot After a party and on the little grassy knoll, like just give me a little grace. Yeah, I mean, come on, like you know, don't, don't be so judgy to everybody. Yep, I love that, let it go.
David Syvertsen
Host
19:57
What are some cons of building a gym, really only focusing on gym and really I probably have to air this towards more performance, like only thinking about hey, we got to get everyone shredded and ripped and jacked into quarterfinals and sit in the games. If I was that guy and I'm sure I've had probably some spurts where I was that guy, I don't think for a long time, but I do think I probably did have some spurts there. Where else? A little too into that side of it. What are some negatives there? Because and I don't want to get too repetitive with like, hey, if we do hero workouts and girl workouts and you load the gym up with fun wads every day, people are gonna come in too much and get hurt. Blah, blah, blah. What are some other negatives to other than the obvious hey, if I do competitor programming and just up everything and make everyone go heavier and harder, they're gonna get hurt. What are some other negatives to making it too gym-based?
Sam Rhee
Host
20:46
Well, I would say, first, I liked the fact that you kind of leaned towards performance-based in the past Okay, and I don't think you should ever be apologetic for thinking that everyone can perform at a higher level than what they thought they could Okay, and so you could lean a little bit too far on that side if you want. But I would much rather have a gym, that kind of pushed people like that and say a franchise orange theory, where you're just like okay, everybody row for 20 minutes and now get on the treadmill and you know, stay in the orange. Yeah like, yeah, exactly Like, don't try too hard, right, like that's not what CrossFit is. So if you push the pedal a little bit hard, okay, fine, okay. I think that the issue is that you have to meet your athletes where they are, and if you're pushing everyone into injury, like, listen, we are all adults and we're supposed to take care of ourselves and realize it.
21:52
But let's face it, crossfit now is a different animal than it was, say, eight, 10 years ago, absolutely, when everything was going broken. Like you know, best time, like you know, forget about blackout. Yeah like, just go ham every day. So I think we've matured and you've matured in terms of your programming, how you approach athletes, just like CrossFit has? Yeah, absolutely, and I would say that if there's an old school CrossFit gym out there, that's still like doing that, like they need to wake up and be like dude. This is not how you're going to retain your athletes. Like it might sound sexy to say you're gonna have to like dig deep every day, go dark all the time, right like, and we used to, but I think it's almost been self-selecting at this point that the gyms that have done that and have not sort of come around and been like let's meet more of our athletes halfway, let's bring them up and, you know, give them successes and improvements that they can see before, like challenging, you know, and making it a little bit harder.
David Syvertsen
Host
23:01
Yeah, or they outsource their programming. They have someone else to it for them because they don't know how to meet their members where they are right. That's a problem too, but a negative. I have tell me. If you agree, this could be something that you disagree with.
23:16
If we made this two gym-based meaning, we started canceling some of our events, right, the social events. We were just like hey guys, we're just gonna come here and measure everyone's body weight and body fat and measure your scores only, and that's it. If you guys wanna hang out on your own, you can do that on your own, but we're gonna cancel the events and we're gonna no longer have a budget because we have a by the same time as a budget for the amount of money that we spend on events every year. We're gonna save that money for more machines in the gym or better barbells, right?
23:46
A con of going that direction is other than the fact that I don't think people would be as close. I think it actually could create more animosity in the gym between good athletes and bad athletes. We fight that a little bit, all right, I think in the spring it gets a little dicey sometimes with open court finals and maybe in some cases semi-finals, but for the most part I think we're we do. I try really hard to manage that, to make sure it's not an issue. If we canceled some of the social stuff and made it all about gym, I think we'd have a bigger disconnect between the really high end athletes and everyone else.
Sam Rhee
Host
24:26
I think so. I think we've done less events socially than we used to because it's too big now, yeah, right, and it's just really hard and a lot of people get together on their own. Yes, they do, and so it's, I think, the good folk. You found a balance in the sense that some of the events, like the CrossFit Open, like that's a big event that everyone gets together for. Even if you're a casual gym goer, if you're really hard core, that's probably the highest attended event. I would say so, and I think that when you focus on certain key events like that, you get to bring everybody together. And, honestly, if you got rid of every other event but the CrossFit Open, you probably could do okay with that, like in terms of community At this point, 10 years, then we could, you could get away with it. Yeah, I would say, I don't mind. Maybe it's because I've gotten older and I just don't want to go out so much.
David Syvertsen
Host
25:24
Yeah, that's true that I'm more gym. You're talking to two people that don't like to go out that much Right.
Sam Rhee
Host
25:28
so I don't mind it being a little more gym based than just having a couple of key events that are really big. But I think if you've let's say you just moved into the area or let's suppose like you are looking for more of a push in terms of your fitness and finding like-minded people, it probably just having a true like showing up to a fitness 19 or a planted fitness and doing your thing it's not gonna help you and you need to separate yourself from that.
25:59
Yeah, and you need a gym that can do more for you yeah.
David Syvertsen
Host
26:03
Now, can the answer change year to year, month to month? Because I think it does. Here I'm gonna give an example. I think once the open rolls around our gym actually you know what I'm gonna say it in January, because people start thinking about the open when we start reset and a lot of like. I've already talked to a dozen people in the past few weeks about hey, let's get through the holidays, don't be an idiot, but you know, don't hold yourself to too tight of like the eating standards and working out, just make sure you're healthy. Once January comes around, let's go. We're getting ready for the open.
26:31
And then you have the open. Some of you are gonna have the quarter finals, some of you might even have the semifinals. Okay, that is where my mind personal for myself, but also the people that I really try to help out the most in the gym it does go towards the performance side. That does not mean the best athletes, it just means the people that are really into performing at their highest level, right, like making sacrifices to get to here here. Here, a lot of my attention goes in that direction. And then you have quarter finals and then people are showing you know we're making a post about them. I actually wanted to make a banner with everyone's name every year and the quarter finals like have banners every year who make quarter finals and the names might be really small because there's gonna be a lot of people.
Sam Rhee
Host
27:12
Yeah, I know from now on.
David Syvertsen
Host
27:13
But I, you know, again I listen to people and their opinions about this. That's kind of been turned down Because again, it can create this like something that people are just looking at all year like, all right, those are the best people, and it could create some animosity there. So I've gone away from that. But even with that staying away from the gym open, we have we get a little competitive here with the intramural teams. Right, I post the top 10 scores scaled in our X every week. I never do that throughout the year, ever. Right. Then we have quarter finals. We make a post about them, we put their names out there.
27:45
We essentially this year we're probably gonna be closing the gym for a night or two. We have to logistically. So that's me going towards performance and away from community. Right, I mean, I'm gonna try to make it a community event. I want people to come out and support them.
28:01
But that's the time of year where I do feel like the quote better athletes, good athletes, once that just simply put more into it, that want these competitive goals. They do get lifted up and I want them to feel that. I want them to feel supported and that there is a purpose behind what they do in the dog days of summer and throughout the fall? Right, but that's why I think our answer, my answer, can change. I actually feel a difference when I'm programming for the gym, that there are certain times of the year where I'm really into performance in gym, performance in gym. Other years I'm like let's take it down a notch, let's have some fun, let's do some hero workouts, some girl workouts responsibly. Do you think this answer can change year to year? Should it? Or should it month to month?
Sam Rhee
Host
28:47
Yes, but I think there's a consistency to it. So the reason why this works in terms of performance basis because this is CrossFit. Crossfit workouts are not easy. You will not join and stay with a CrossFit gym if you have a difficult, if you don't like difficulty or adversity during your workouts. It's true, and so anyone who has stayed at any CrossFit gym for any length of time has a certain mindset that I think gravitates towards pushing yourself to trying harder, regardless of what level or capability you are at.
29:24
I have seen many athletes that I work out with. They are not doing bar muscle ups, they're not snatching 225, they're squatting 65 and maybe they're doing a couple dumbbells for their handstand pushups or whatever it is, but they are still pushing themselves to their limit. Hell yeah, and they are really trying really hard and it's not pleasant for them, let's just put it that way. They are done every workout and they're pretty wiped. So if you don't like that, you're not gonna be part of this gym or any other real CrossFit gym.
30:01
So, being performance based, it does vary, like the intensity, like in the summer or in the fall. Like, are you dialing up the intensity for performance? Not really, no, but come open. Yeah, you're pushed, and that's why everyone at the gym as a community actually gravitates toward that, because we all are appreciating the people who are doing their best and the way the intramural is set up. Everyone has to do their best for their team to win. You have to participate, you have to do all these things, true, and so it's about not just the most elite athletes, although we do have some very elite athletes who I love watching because I know the preparation, the training process yeah, the process that it took to get there was very intensive, and then sometimes in the workouts, you just see this beauty of a human being giving their like max effort.
David Syvertsen
Host
31:02
Yeah, there's definitely something to watching someone truly try as hard as they can, and knowing not only that, knowing everything before that led up to that moment.
Sam Rhee
Host
31:13
Right, and so that accomplishment really jazzes me, which is why I love watching that and why so many people do so. Whether that varies, yeah, it varies during the year. But listen, we're CrossFit, we are performance based. That's the bottom line, it's true, and if you don't like that, then you should go find another gym. That's a good point.
David Syvertsen
Host
31:37
I do. I think that hearing you say that, I'm always like God, it's both, is both, is both community or gym, community or gym maybe it goes back and forth, but really the consistent baseline is gym at this point in our game Absolutely, and I really think a quality CrossFit can't lean too hard in me the direction and I think that's been the downfall of some.
Sam Rhee
Host
31:58
I look at our members and the ones regardless of their physical performance, their mental like. The way they challenge themselves mentally is what I admire. You know you can figure someone out by seeing how they work out Absolutely much better than a lot of other ways in terms of, like learning about their personality and who they are. And so the gym part drives the community, because you are kind of weeding out the ones that you really actually kind of don't want in your community.
David Syvertsen
Host
32:28
If you're hiring the next Bison Coach Sam, does this impact? Does this? He's not, by the way, all right. I give my opinion, but it doesn't matter most of the time, no, it does, but does this impact to you hire, yes, this conversation.
Sam Rhee
Host
32:46
I mean, it doesn't really matter because you're ultimately gonna make that decision, but I will say this for sure the person you hire, one of the priorities has to be can they adhere to both Right, can they accommodate, Can they contribute to gym, Can contribute to community Like and that's a huge responsibility and it has to come natural.
David Syvertsen
Host
33:09
Not easy to find either, to be honest with you, Because I think a lot of people they lean in one direction more than the other. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so, but-.
Sam Rhee
Host
33:21
How are you going to decide? Because I know you are very performance based, so you look at the best athletes and you're like I wonder if they might make a good coach?
David Syvertsen
Host
33:31
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I definitely measure a potential coach and how they perform, but not necessarily what are their scores. It's more about what you just talked about. What has their process been like for the past few years? And when I do watch them or coach them, I see that right. Are they constantly making excuses? Are they constantly complaining? Oh, but they still have good scores, I don't really care, right. But if their scores aren't that good, comparatively speaking, but the attitudes right, the approach has been right, they've been coachable. They've listened well, they have taken the right steps. They do listen right.
34:14
Those are things that matter more to me than the actual performance side of it. What was their process like? That's why I say I always say I wanna know you for two to three years before you even a thought to coach here, because I wanna see you go through the calendar. What's the calendar? To me, it's the crosser calendar Open Murph, hero Week, holiday, wads, your post-summer blues, which a lot of people are still struggling with right now. How are you through the holidays? How are you when you repeat that cycle? Did you change anything? Are you the same person? How do you deal with injuries, right? How do you deal with some dips in performance. How do you deal with like a real nagging injury, right? Does your personality change All that stuff that matters to me?
Sam Rhee
Host
34:56
How about community, though? How does that impact your choice for a coach?
David Syvertsen
Host
35:02
That if you're trying to make the gym, both right, I do think the coach needs to have some sort of contribution to both. Right, you can't just be gym, you can't just be the athlete and you can't just be the social bug. Right, I think you have to find a way to contribute to both. What can you do to make both of those better? Because it's your job to make both those better. So it does this impact to why hire Do? I feel like, hey, we're struggling a little bit on the community side. I would like someone to tie that together. Like I want that next hire to be there.
Sam Rhee
Host
35:28
It's not that they're just tight with a few people. Yeah, it could be even a certain group of people, or yeah, or that they're just very relatable and like approachable to a lot of different people Like be honest, no offense to our coaches, because I'm a part of this too.
David Syvertsen
Host
35:42
We're all getting older, you know. We're all getting deeper in. Some of us are getting deeper into that. The parenthood game, right, like when I started coaching, I didn't have any kids. Storms didn't have any kids, adam Ramzen didn't have any kids, and they're all great. The Carlo didn't have any kids. They're all great coaches, but it's harder to be that consistent community factor that you were prior to kids. The priority is your family, and it should be.
36:14
I don't want everyone up, so I think there is some thought that goes into if we need to build the community from that perspective. That's something I struggle with all the time. Do you hire people that are in certain life situations that others aren't? Should that really matter that much? So youth matters here. For you, it can, it can. There's definitely an angle to it, that where youth does matter.
36:36
But to me, being able to relate to people matters, and more experience in life, more ability to relate to people, fact All right. I think that they're the best coaches in our gym at relating to others and being empathetic toward others and truly understanding what others are going through, are older and we just got done talking about eval coaches. That's one of the most important components of coaching, so again, it's a hard line to draw. Does this discussion impact our membership base? Do we, if we want it to become more party central, more events, more Instagram pictures and videos of people partying on a beach together, verse people being in the gym and working hard and working on snatch pulls and muscle up progressions? That's going to affect who wants to come to your gym, Especially crossfitters. We call them layups, people that come with experience. Right, we've had a lot of those. I actually think the majority of our new members over the past year have been experienced crossfitters from other gyms.
Sam Rhee
Host
37:41
They've been really amazing, like really amazing.
David Syvertsen
Host
37:44
And they needed us, we needed them. It's a nice little relationship but it's mutually beneficial and respectful. But I do wonder sometimes, you know like why?
Sam Rhee
Host
37:56
doesn't everyone want to come here?
David Syvertsen
Host
37:57
No, I'm just kidding, but I do think, from a perception outside procession, some people might be like they don't have enough young people that go out. Like I'm a young, like you know, weekend work, like I love to work out hard, I love to party harder on a weekend, or vice versa, dude, I'm cool, I don't want that holiday event scene, I don't want, you know, a 1 AM bender. Like I just want to get some Bulgarian split squats in and fix my strict pull-ups.
Sam Rhee
Host
38:29
We got a lot of those. Let me ask you this, just a side note so for all of our people who've come from other gyms and you know have joined us, how long does it take before you mentally start thinking they are crossfit bison and not oh yeah, that's you know so-and-so from so-and-so Like? That happened early with the 201 crew that came in like a while ago, like you know, kristen and DeCarlo and all these people. Like if, for a long time you know you start thinking these are the X, you know crossfit from so-and-so place, and then at some point your mental transition is okay, they're part of our community, like truly part of our community now, and you don't think of them as the X former other gym place members. Like how long does it take for you to sort of mentally sort of get to that point with somebody? Go through the calendar? A whole year, only a year.
David Syvertsen
Host
39:23
Really Because I feel like if they haven't left, some people come to our gym they leave with and usually that like they'll come to our gym from another gym and they'll get a feel for our blend of community and gym and they'll leave within a year.
Sam Rhee
Host
39:36
I would say for me mentally it took almost two years. Like there's a huge crew of 5am-ers and that first year I was still mentally like the X, so-and-so place and now I think of them and I'm like, no, they're just like part of us now. But it takes a little while for groups to kind of integrate a little.
David Syvertsen
Host
39:58
We might have different answers on that. Because I coach them more, I see them more. Like you see those five. I mean I know when you come and work out you'll see them on the way out and come into six. But if I'm coaching someone that's coming a lot at 5am and I coach on average two or three per week there and then the Saturdays every other week. I see them a lot and my experience with them that means, like I see that blend of gym and community in them. Do they think that they're part of the community after? That would be a more interesting question to ask. I mean, look where tribes all these boxes are tribes. Yeah, they are, they are, and you can tell some aren't comfortable early on. It's just like they don't have like their status there. Dave L and Britt L the Lanslotties they were a member out of gym just for a few months and then when Kat and I made legends in San Diego, they flew out there, yeah, and so I'm saying the answer can be different for them.
Sam Rhee
Host
40:52
That is true.
David Syvertsen
Host
40:53
They kind of I never thought of them as X as somewhere else Like they kind of they stand out to me because, like to me, like that not that they had to do that to be a part of the bison community, because a lot of money and stress for them too. It's not easy to watch CrossFit competitions, by the way, especially across the country and that kind of competition. That's a really stressful situation for both of them and they did it. They did it with like, just like the most humble attitudes. They were a big deal that weekend. That's when I like I'm saying these things can be accelerated by certain events at the gym. That's why I like I think a year to me, like I'm going to know who you are in relation to this gym in a year, are you the person that shows up to quarter final weekend when we need help changing weights and you don't even know anyone? Are you going to still show up and do it Because they did, that person did that person did that person did. That kind of stuff can really. But if you're really like only gym, only gym, only gym, don't really talk to many people, then yeah, maybe it would be more than a year, but I do think it could be done as soon as a year, but not for everyone Interesting, all right. Thank you guys.
41:52
That was a good discussion on gym versus community. Remember, the best ones do both, the ones that stick around do both. But if I had to give a new gym advice, I would say definitely. To quote Greg Glassman focus on your community first. The gym will come second. But at some point you're going to need to make sure that it's known by everyone your staff, you included, and your members. It's a gym All right. As you know, when you introduce your gym to people across the world that don't know who you are, or relatives or friends, you're not going to say it's a community. You're going to say it's a gym that is a community. It's not a community, that is a gym. All right, thank you guys. See you next week. Thank you everybody for taking the time out of your day to listen to the Herdfit podcast. Be on the lookout for next week's episode.
