S03E85 SPECIAL GUEST DR ALLISON WARNER MD PhD ON HEALTH AND CROSSFIT

Dave and Sam welcome someone who truly has achieved amazing success in every endeavor. Special guest Dr. Allison Warner, MD PhD, is not only an oncologist specializing in melanoma at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (soon to be at Stanford University Medical Center), but she has been involved with CrossFit at every level since 2009, as a CrossFit Games athlete, a CF L-1 certified coach, and part of the CrossFit Health @crossfithealth initiative. She also is a dedicated athlete at our own @crossfitbison, who will be sorry (but proud!) to see her going to the West Coast soon.

Allison talks with Dave and Sam about her CrossFit experience through her medical training, why she has continued with CrossFit all these years, and important takeways for anyone interested in health and fitness.

Dr. Warner obtained her undergraduate degree at Cornell University where she was a varsity gymnast. She graduated from Duke University with her MD/PhD degrees and subsequently completed a residency in internal medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital. After a fellowship in oncology at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (MSKCC), she has been an assistant attending physician at MSKCC. She will be taking a position at Stanford University Medical Center next month.

@crossfittraining @crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate #personalizedfitness

S03E85 SPECIAL GUEST DR ALLISON WARNER MD PhD ABOUT CROSSFIT AND HEALTH

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: All right. Welcome back to the Her Fit podcast. I am coach David Sorenson. I'm here with my co-host, Dr. And coach Sam Marie, and we have a very special guest today. We've been trying to line this up for a while, but schedules are hard and we are getting this in at the last minute because. Fortunately for her, unfortunately for us, Allison Warner, our guest is moving to California.

We're gonna get into that in a little bit, I'm sure. But Allison, welcome to the Her Fit

[00:00:26] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: Podcast. Thank you. I've been looking forward to this for a while. Yeah, so thrilled to be here. She

[00:00:30] David Syvertsen: wore an eagle sweatshirt to the gym, and we said that's actually banned from being on the Her Fit Podcast. Podcast. Just,

[00:00:35] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: I had to stir the pot a little, you know?

[00:00:37] David Syvertsen: I appreciate. So welcome. I, I really want people to kind of get to, we, Sam calls this year a CrossFit start story, right? And I do think, you know, I have to spend a ton of time on it, but it's important for us to know and the listeners to know Where and when, why, how all this stuff did you get into involved with CrossFit?

[00:00:56] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: Yeah. So, I've been doing CrossFit forever. Yeah. . I think that was one of the first things you and I talked about. Yep. One of the, one of the true OGs, one of the true OGs. So I started CrossFit in March of 2009. Wow. So I was a college gymnast graduated college in 2005. So many other former high level athletes got really lost when my college career was over, and I just kind of didn't know what to do with myself.

I had started medical school and thought that, you know, Sam, you know this, you know, you just dive in and then you become a full-time student and. That life wasn't working for me. You know, I was so used to coming home from school, going to practice, having four or five hours of practice and then cramming in studying, and that's how my life had worked for 20 plus years.

And so, Like so many other former athletes, I was like, what do you do? You run a marathon because you don't know what else to do, . So I did that for a little while. I discovered two things. One is that I'm really bad at running , and two is that running for a really long time is pretty boring. And I decided to do a triathlon.

Cool. So I was working out training for triathlon, realized I'd lost all my upper body strength from gymnastics and. Like completely unacceptable to me. . Disappointed. Yeah. So I went to this, the gym at Duke where I was in medical school, and this guy comes up to me in the gym and he's like, you know how to lift.

And I was like, . Yep. Yeah. . I do. Yeah. Pretty sure. And I'm like, okay, why is this guy talking to me at the gym? You know, we've all gotten hit on at the gym, like not in anyone's favorite thing. And he's like, have you heard of CrossFit? And I was like, Nope. , you know, this is 2008. Yeah. And he was like, I'm not hitting on you.

I promise. I realize this is creepy, but go home, Google, Fran CrossFit, and next time you see me here, if it looks interesting, come talk to me. That

[00:02:44] David Syvertsen: is so funny. There are so many times in life over the past 10 years that I've wanted to do that. Like seeing someone work out or I'm just, honestly just watching someone walk around.

I'm like, yeah, I want to go to that person. Just come, just come on Wednesday. Just give it a shot. Like, and it would be so creepy so I don't do it . Exactly. That's the

[00:03:01] Sam Rhee: first thing I thought. Yeah, you're really don't do that. No, I don't.

[00:03:03] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: It's really creepy. I'm not gonna lie. I almost didn't do it. Credit to that guy though.

Credit to that guy. So I went home, I googled Fran. I thought it was pretty awesome. The. First CrossFit gyms had just opened in North Carolina in

[00:03:16] David Syvertsen: Durham. Wow. This is so cool. It's like a

[00:03:18] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: true OG story. And he was like, look, you know, come with me. We will just try, you know, if you hate it, whatever.

Right. And at that time, CrossFit Durham was sharing space with an MMA gym, which I had no experience with. So I walk in and people are like, hitting each other and all this stuff, and like, there's a rig in the back corner. And I was like, all right, I guess that's where we're going. My first workout was seven minutes of Cindy.

Okay. Oh, wow. And as a former gymnast, I was like, oh, so easy, right? Yeah. No problem. Pull up, push up. Come on. Yeah. Come on. Like all day, seven minutes flat on my back, staring at the ceiling, wondering what the hell happened to me. And they looked, they were like, See you tomorrow. Yep. See you tomorrow. . There's an understanding there.

Yep. There was an understanding there, and that was how it started. So, awesome. Yeah. I

[00:04:03] David Syvertsen: question the guy that, the creeper that that, that we need to credit you for getting involved in CrossFit. Was he, did he belong there or, he literally just was like a, a CrossFit angel that came outta this guy and left.

[00:04:14] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: Actually did, so back then there was a lot of CrossFit happening at universities. Yeah. There was actually university games back then, and he was more doing that at Duke. Okay. But, you know, the community was so small then that people came and go, you know? Yeah, right. We all dropped into different gyms.

Yeah. And so he had been to CrossFit Durham, but wasn't a, wasn't a member or coach there. Got it. Okay. Interesting. So yeah, I mean, I went from that in March of 2009 to got my level one in January of 2010. Did my first competition in February, March of 2010. Which was just like back then there were so few competitions, so we did, we hosted a big one at CrossFit Durham for most of the gyms in North Carolina.

Cool. And ended. Competing on a team that year. So went to regionals, we qualified to the games. Wow. Competed in the 2010 games on a team. And was that, was that at

[00:05:07] David Syvertsen: the ranch or was that in

[00:05:07] Sam Rhee: Carson? That

[00:05:08] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: was the first year in Carson. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Sweet. Which was really cool. Kind of a bummer actually.

Cause I, I still, to this day, I've been doing CrossFit since 2009. I still haven't been to the ranch. Same. It's on. I'm going. Are you? There's a, oh, you're gonna be out there now. This, there's there's. MD level two that's happening at the ranch soon, and I'm, I'm going to that one. So cool. I'm really pumped about that.

That's awesome. But yeah, so competed for a while and then, you know, life took over. Had to actually start, you know, be a doctor, be a doctor, or become a doctor. At that point I was, In medical school and working with my PhD. And so, you know, I think one of the things that's been interesting for me has been the many seasons of CrossFit, right?

You know, I went from focusing for so many years on being an athlete as an individual athlete, as a gymnast, and then a team athlete in CrossFit, and then, You know, I coached all through medical school, my PhD, all through residency, through most of fellowship. This is still down in North Carolina, right?

So medical school, PhD. We're in North Carolina at CrossFit Durham and I coached at CrossFit Local in Chapel Hill. Okay. And then I did my residency in Boston at Mass General. And was part of the team at Reebok CrossFit Back Bay, which is now Invictus Boston. Yep. Brick, when there was a brick in Boston.

Cool. And then a, a local gym called Avalon. . I moved to New York for my fellowship and coached at a gym called ICE in the City. Cool. That unfortunately was one of the victims of the pandemic. Mm-hmm. and closed closed pretty early in the pandemic. Did you live in the city? I lived in the city through mid pandemic actually.

Okay. Okay. And then moved out here which, When I found Bison. Right. And been here ever

[00:06:42] David Syvertsen: since. Cool. Yeah. So before, and we're gonna really kind of make a turn towards the CrossFit health at some point, but I still kind of want to get more out of you. Like I feel like someone that's in CrossFit for that long and has been to that many boxes, there's a lot of value, there's a lot of knowledge in your head.

Then I think it, it would help for us to hear as coaches, same night coaches, but also members of a community and, you know, of all these gyms that you have been to and cross, it has evolved a lot since you've started, right? I mean, night and day. Night and day, you say right Night, night and day. What, what are kind of just a couple of, off the top of your head, Of th of traits of a gym that you think do it right, even though do it right.

Those, those goal posts have shifted over the, over the years. Right. But what are a couple of the traits off the top of your head? I know I'm just dropping you on this right now, but that you really think are kind of like the pillars of something that keeps us CrossFit

[00:07:33] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: strong. Yeah, no worries. You know, this is something actually I thought a lot about cause when we moved out here,

You know, I actually tried out eight CrossFit gyms in this area before I came to Bison. Wow. And before I stayed at bison. Wow. This is not super close to where I live out here in the suburbs. And so, it took a little bit for me to decide to come here, but I couldn't find what I was looking for. And so I can tell you exactly what it was.

Yeah. I think number one, first and foremost is community. . You know, it doesn't matter whether you have the best athletes, the worst athletes, this is us, should be and is here a safe space. Mm-hmm. . Right? It's your place to come to be as fit or as not fit, but to just move the needle a little for everyone.

Yeah. love that. And to have also the support and the rest of your life. I mean, I think for me, when I really learned about the community of CrossFit, one of our members at CrossFit Durham, who actually is now one of my closest friends, got breast cancer, and this was well before like. Barbells for boobs and all of these organizations were, you know, prominent and our gym just rallied around her.

We went with her to every treatment. Wow. Half our members, you know, the guys shaved their heads with her. You know, we raised a lot of money for her treatment, and that's when I learned what the CrossFit community was. And that's what I fell in love with. Awesome. And I think that exists here. Yeah. I think other things that are really important though, you know, coaches who are willing to meet members where they walk, where they are.

Mm-hmm. , you know, you're gonna have some super high level athletes and we have them here. I mean, we have athletes that make my mind spin. Yeah. , but also you can walk in the door of this gym and be 400 pounds. Yeah. And that's okay. Right, right. And you will get fitter and we will move that needle.

Mm-hmm. and you're welcome. Right. And you will do the same workout. You know, I've seen a lot of gyms start to like segment off competitor track and this track, and then the newbies are over there in the corner. And the beauty of CrossFit Yeah. Is the scalability.

[00:09:36] David Syvertsen: Yep. It's, it's a huge part of the methodology that if you really true, truly believe in CrossFit.

That's, I just, we had a conversation with someone I think it was Coda, right? And Coda's, you know, one of our athletes that competes here does a really good job, but I just had went in doubt, like if you ever, it's just do CrossFit. . You know, like if you really, truly believe in the methodology the classes be with people, that is really where the core is at.

Yeah.

[00:09:55] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: I mean, we can all do extra programming, we can all do all those things you know, depending on what you're focused on, but Right, right. Everyone here from the coaches. Mm-hmm. to the competitors, to everybody else. They do our programming. Right. And to me, It makes the community, but it also just speaks to that whole idea that everyone is a member of the same suffering.

Right? Yeah. Suffer with friends, as

[00:10:21] David Syvertsen: Sam says, drinks the Kool-Aid.

[00:10:22] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: drinks the Kool-Aid. Exactly. And I, I think that, that to me was, were the two things that really stood out about bison. That's a good answer, Sam.

[00:10:30] David Syvertsen: Thoughts on those answers? We talk about this a lot. Sam and I talk about this a lot with the podcast, off the podcast, just traits of a good

[00:10:36] Sam Rhee: gym.

Yeah. I mean, you know, Allison's been involved at every level of CrossFit for many, many, many years. Yeah. And so when I listen to her speak, there are two things that come to mind. One is, it is exactly what the CrossFit home office and what we all believe in, if you're truly a person, right.

That's exactly what you should. Doing and living every day at the gym. And the second thing is, is that, I'm glad that there's another physician on the podcast. That was the first time we've ever had in physician .

[00:11:05] David Syvertsen: And I don't like bringing the medicine. I'm so intimidated right now, by the

[00:11:07] Sam Rhee: way.

And we don't, well, listen, you should be because as a physician, we don't bring medicine onto this side ever because it's really about CrossFit and health and I mean the CrossFit side of health. Yes. Right. And, but I have to say that as physicians, you know, who has credibility and, and names count.

Yes. And when you look at al's, you know, Dr. Allison Warner, right? Look at her resume. It blows. It's she's big time. Anyone else? We're gonna get into that. We're gonna get into that from met. Yeah, because where did you do your undergrad? Cornell. At Cornell. And then you went to med school at Duke? I did.

And you did your PhD at Duke. And now just to explain to people who don't know medicine a lot, if you're a mud foot or MD PhD, like you have to spend an inordinate amount of time in the lab. Your doctorate and getting your doctorate is no joke. Like you Really Hardest thing I've ever done. Oh my God. The research that's involved and it's not just bs like I did like a year or two of research in medical school that that's bs like this is.

You have to come up with something real and come up with a thesis and come up with something groundbreaking. Wow. And this is at one of the most elite institutions in the world. And then after that, she went into one of the most intellectually demanding specialties, which is oncology. I mean, I'm just a, a cutter like , you know, literally I am more than a cutter.

And I'm a, I'm a cosmetic cutter, which is probably like the worst that you could think of on the hierarchy of surgical specialties. And then, did a a fellowship in oncology at M sk Yep. Yeah. At Memorial Sloan Kettering, which is arguably, and honestly, I don't think anyone would argue the premier cancer center in the world.

Mm-hmm. Like there's no other place like that. And then she works there. , it's specializing in melanoma, which is one of the most exciting, I would say, fields that I've seen in the past years in terms of research and advanced treatments and, and new developments in terms of managing melanoma. And then they hired her now at Stanford, which is why she's leaving New Jersey.

Yep. To be the heavy hitter there and sort of bring what she has had at MSK for all those years. So I know a lot of people don't know. What that means. But in medicine that is she is probably top of the top, like you're not gonna find anyone. And you, you hear what she says and you're like, She's probably one of the smartest, hardest working people in medicine that I've probably ever met.

Wow. And you don't even have to know who she is. You just have to look at that resume and, you know, like you don't fake your weight. I was gonna say, you can't fake that. You can't fake any of this. Don't fake it until you make it. No, no, no, no, no, no. She's,

[00:13:41] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: she's, I still think I'm faking it until I make it, but you know, she's the

[00:13:44] Sam Rhee: real deal and that's awesome.

The fact is, is that she was able to parallel her CrossFit journey with all this. I could barely keep my head above water in med school. Like I was literally. Dying with the workload I had. And then same in residency. I believe it. I believe it dying. Yeah. And my health, my every outside activity took a huge nose dive.

Right. And that the fact that she was able to make this important to her. Yeah. Work it somehow in. With everything else, like at a high level too, right? Like we, we think working and working out is, is hard and, and this and that. Listen different levels, like yeah. This is like next, next, next, next level.

Right? In terms of organizational skills and, and making sure you have your priorities straight. And the fact that she's actually been on every level in the organization of CrossFit as well. Yeah. Shows her dedication to CrossFit, then

[00:14:35] David Syvertsen: the belief in it. Everything. I,

[00:14:37] Sam Rhee: we've seen her featured on CrossFit Health.

Yep. In seminars. She's been at the games multiple times, both. A participant and then also on staff, and then also as an expert in terms of talking about Right. CrossFit and health. So, you know, as low key as Allison is.

[00:14:52] David Syvertsen: Yep. just know that if you're in the same room as her, you're definitely not the smartest person.

she

[00:14:57] Sam Rhee: is a rockstar on every

[00:14:59] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: level. You guys are making you blush, so we're gonna have to move on. Right.

[00:15:01] Sam Rhee: So I just wanted to say that because I, I know she wouldn't say that. So I,

[00:15:05] David Syvertsen: I, I, it does, I will say that I don't, Allison, that's probably uncomfortable. It just helps. People that are listening to truly know.

That whatever you say about what we're gonna be talking about today, it should be taking very serious.

[00:15:16] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: Absolutely. No, I appreciate that. I think one other thing that I, I think is important to mention about that, and Dave, you and I talked about this when I first came to the gym Yeah. Is that there's different seasons of life.

And different seasons of your CrossFit career. Correct? Right. There are times where I was really focused on being a really good CrossFitter. Right. There were really times where I was focused on keeping my head above water. Mm-hmm. , and for me, keeping my head above water meant going to the gym because if I didn't, I was gonna lose my mind.

Right. And it wasn't necessarily that I had the time or anything else. It was, that was my coping mechanism during residency. That was my coping mechanism during fellowship, and that is my coping mechanism when I lose a patient now. Right. And so, you know, , I've struggled with this, you know, that you know, there are times where I definitely, you know, the open comes around and I'm like, wow, I really used to be a fit person and I'm really not a fit person anymore. And that's really hard at times. Yeah. You know, I still struggle with that and it's been 10 plus years since I was really a competitive CrossFitter. Right. . But I think it speaks also to, you know, the grace that we have to have with ourselves. Very important.

And knowing that, you know, there are different seasons of life and part of like, now that I'm a little bit more established in my career, you guys have seen me a lot more. Right? Right. I've been here a lot more. I, you know, I'm getting back to being a semi fit person, . I surprise myself every once in a while and do well at a workout.

Right? And so, you. , but everybody who goes through this process and does this for any period of time is gonna experience that. Whether it's injury, whether it's you have a child, whether it's, you know, you have a job that's tough or you lose your job. Mm-hmm. , you know, there's ups and downs and I, I think learning to, to kind of roll with that and find the joy in CrossFit anyway is so important.

[00:17:08] David Syvertsen: Right. That's awesome. Those are really good words. Thanks. So let, let's kind of make the turn to CrossFit Health, and I'll be honest with you. It's a program that I don't know much about, like the inception, why, how, how long has this come? But I do know, because I'm a big reader of old CrossFit journal articles that this was a long time coming from the founder of CrossFit, Greg Glassman, he j he always wanted to shift CrossFit towards health, not just performance.

Right. And. . Now here we are. I still very much involved in the CrossFit space. Obviously I can read a definition. I am gonna read it what it is off the CrossFit website and, but I still don't know much more about it because I just don't think it's out there that much. There's been a lot of leadership change in CrossFit, obviously, and that, that's definitely a big part of it.

But I'm really kind of glad and honored that you're here so that you can really give us some of the inside track as, as much as you want. But it, CrossFit Health is, this is off the website, is a space for healthcare professionals to access education, connect with the community, and find the most effective ways to support their patients.

That, that's like the CrossFit definition of CrossFit Health. What is Allison's definition of CrossFit Health?

[00:18:20] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: Yeah, I, I would say there's, from my perspective, sort of two main parts of CrossFit Health. Led to this sort of entity That I agree is still far too nebulous, but we're getting there. Yeah. So one was this idea that Greg has always had of, you know, reaching people.

beyond the gym, right. And incorporating fitness and wellness into healthcare. Mm-hmm. , you know, preventing illness, using fitness, wellness, nutrition, et cetera. So I think that that's one big part of CrossFit Health. I think the other big part of CrossFit Health as how it started was many of us in the community, doctors, nurses, PAs, physical therapists, looking for friends to refer.

Right. So we would have a patient, you know, I was at that time probably an internal medicine doctor, and so, you know, I needed a subspecialist an oncology or a, you know, an orthopedic surgeon to send a patient to. And so often, you know, a patient would go to an orthopedic surgeon and they would say, oh, you should never squat.

Right. You have a bad knee, you should never squat. And I would lose my mind and give the 27 reasons why that was a bad idea. But I had just literally sent the patient to a subspecialist who told them they should never squat. Right. And so we were looking to find a network of like-minded people that approached medicine the same way.

Mm-hmm. And so some of this started as a very grassroots effort for, from a bunch of us to like, put together a spreadsheet. I mean, it's actually started on an Excel spreadsheet Yeah. Of like CrossFitting doctors and practitioners around the country. Yeah. In different

[00:19:59] David Syvertsen: fields. I know. It's cool. Now on the CrossFit affiliate map, right?

Like if you're traveling and you go to the CrossFit affiliate map, you wanna find a gym, they now have a filter on that map to show where physicians are by city. So if you needed an orthopedic surgeon in California, You could put it in the zip code and they'll tell you who among those orthopedic surgeons out there are acro tied to CrossFit are part of CrossFit Health.

So that that spreadsheet now has turned

[00:20:25] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: into that. Yeah, and it's really, I mean, it's great and people, for those of you who don't know about it and are medical practitioners, get yourself on that list. It's really important one so people can find you, but also so your colleagues can find you. I mean, you know, Sam and I have talked about a lot of aspects of medicine, CrossFit Health, you.

Wellness. And one of the appeals of this gym was that there, there was somebody in that space that I could share that with. And so, you know, this has grown beyond. I think one of the, you know, original criticisms of CrossFit health was that it was really limited to just MDs. Right. And. We all know that this is a team sport.

Mm-hmm. , right? Both CrossFit and medicine are team sports and, you know, CrossFit Health has really now taken a really nice turn and grown to involve anyone involved in any aspect of healthcare. So like

[00:21:17] David Syvertsen: a chiropractor slash physical therapist.

[00:21:20] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: Yep. Nurses, nurse practitioners you know, I didn't know they made that sense.

Nutritionist. Okay, cool. You know, a good friend of mine is actually a sex educator, which is obviously a huge part of health. Yep. They're included in CrossFit Health, so really trying to think about this much more holistically.

[00:21:37] David Syvertsen: Cool. Sam opening like slots on CrossFit Health from your perspective? Yeah.

[00:21:40] Sam Rhee: I have also struggled with CrossFit Health and I feel like Greg Glassman has said, and I've heard this before, and I believe it a thousand percent. The healthcare community are like lifeguards and CrossFit coaches are like the swim instructors. And unfortunately, a lot of times when healthcare gets involved, it's when people are drowning.

And it's true. Most of our healthcare is revolved around helping people in acute situations, like very acute situations. Right. And we're really pretty good at dealing with acute situations, you know, whether it be someone. Falling on the ground from cardiac arrest, which we re recently saw, or, or trauma or diag, you know, just diagnosing a disease and managing it immediately.

But the chronic conditions and the, and the maintenance of health and, and the building of health and fitness is something that I never learned. Not even once in med school. My nutrition knowledge was literally like two weeks of my med school life maybe. And it was the worst nutrition course I think I've ever taken in my life.

Mm-hmm. and pretty much everything I've learned from health and fitness was not medicine related. It was outside of medicine.

[00:22:52] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: Got it. And to be fair, there's a little bit of that that is, you're a surgeon and your surgical training is a little bit different. Sure. , you know, as an internist. Yeah. You know, I was an internist before I was an oncologist.

Yeah. There is a lot more, still not nearly enough, but a lot more focus on preventative healthcare, wellness, et cetera. But unfortunately, our healthcare system and the reimbursement system is designed for sick care, not well WellCare. Yep. And, and I agree. I mean, this is a huge problem in this country.

[00:23:22] Sam Rhee: The other thing is, is that, I think most providers wrestle with, how do we get more patients and people into CrossFit? And if you think about it just as a regular person, how do you get the people around you into CrossFit? That's hard. Like I am an, I'm all in on CrossFit. Everyone knows I'm all in on CrossFit.

and I struggle with people who know me, trust me, love me getting into CrossFit. I mean, so

[00:23:51] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: I'll, I I will, I'll jump in with a great story that I don't think either of you know, actually. Okay, that's good. So I've been doing CrossFit since 2009, as you heard. I've been married I met my husband in 24.

14. We've been married since 2016. He actually didn't start CrossFit until this year. . Wow. He literally was married to someone who's done all these different things in CrossFit. He lived with me in a one bedroom, one bedroom apartment while I was like coaching Zoom classes during the pandemic. And it took all of those years for him as someone who was never really an athlete.

Really walk in the door and, and feel, you know, comfortable doing that. And now, I mean at the, what got him over the hump you think? I think it was a few things. You know, we, you think it was health related or, I think it was definitely health related. You know, we're forties and, you know, starting to think about longer term cardiovascular health and those types of things.

Yep. I think he had seen also for me that, you know, when we first met, I was, Pretty good athlete. Mm-hmm. . And you know, I mean, if anything the pandemic was tough. I was a doctor in the city. Yeah. And, you know, ran a covid ICU for a while, so I did no fitness for Right. For quite some time. Right. And saw me go, you know, from being this high, higher level athlete to really pretty unfit, unfortunately.

Mm-hmm. . and be able to walk into a gym and be okay with that and you know, and build that back up. And I think that was a confidence builder for him. Right. Cuz it is intimidating and I look like I've, unfortunately, I think so many people have seen, fortunately, and unfortunately so many people have seen the CrossFit games.

Right. And that's a wonderful thing and it's a wonderful part of our community, but quite frankly, that's not what CrossFit's about. It's

[00:25:41] Sam Rhee: intimidating Yeah. For a lot of people, I'm sure. Yeah. And it's,

[00:25:43] David Syvertsen: it could be a turnoff for

[00:25:44] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: most. It is a turnoff for most. Yeah. Right. I mean, my favorite part of coaching is, you know, when I coached at CrossFit Durham, we used to do a free Saturday workout and we would do it outside on purpose so that people walking around Durham Yeah.

Would see normal. Doing, doing CrossFit normal stuff. Yeah. Doing normal stuff or abnormal stuff. Right. Right. But scaled appropriately. Right, right, right. And that's the stuff that I wish was on tv. Mm-hmm. . Right. That's the stuff that doctors wish their patients would see. Mm-hmm. , because you don't have to be able to walk in the door and do a pull-up, let alone handstand walk across the gym.

Yeah. Right, right. You have to be able to sit down on the toilet and stand back

[00:26:25] David Syvertsen: up. Yeah. And get off

[00:26:25] Sam Rhee: the ground and stuff like that. Yep. Okay. All right. I'm gonna take two. Eat like a pig, gain 50 pounds, and then my friends will join me doing CrossFit.

[00:26:33] David Syvertsen: I'm in, I'm in Sam,

[00:26:34] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: I'm in . Well unfortunately I didn't intend to do that, but that is sort of what happens to me during the pandemic.

So, um Right. But, but I do think that there's a lot of that, and I think CrossFit did. For a little while, try to focus on that. Yeah. There were a lot of Oh, right. You know, ads during the games, stuff, picking up the milks and stuff. But also, I mean, there was a lot of commercials and stuff during the games, I think two years ago, three years ago now, of more normal people stories.

[00:27:01] David Syvertsen: Yeah. I think more of that's starting to come out now too. I think that's part of the big initiatives of new CrossFit leadership is I think they're coming out the magic of CrossFit. It's like they're gonna start like releasing videos for, for gyms to share, to show like, Hey, normal people do this stuff.

Let's stop, let's stop highlighting muscle ups and everything.

[00:27:18] Sam Rhee: So as a provider, how do you incorporate CrossFit in terms of talking to your patients? Because I know, I ha like I struggle. Mighty mightly with

[00:27:28] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: that. Yeah. It, it's really interesting. I mean, I would say like your patients and my patients are com two completely at opposite ends of the

[00:27:35] Sam Rhee: spectrum.

Right. Very. If there's a hint of un like sickness, , you

[00:27:39] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: won't touch that. I won't touch. Um, And meanwhile I take care of patients, the sickest people, metastatic cancer that my, my specialty is, you know, something that's spread to the brain. Right? Right. The sickest of the sick people. Yeah. And so, you know, I.

they first and foremost, I think one thing that we should throw out there is like my PhD focused on the effects of exercise on. treatment of cancer. Mm-hmm. . And so this is something that I have been really passionate about for a long time, but also have a lot of knowledge in. Right. And so I feel much more comfortable than many of my colleagues talking about exercise and fitness in the context of especially cancer.

Mm-hmm. , you know, there are many oncologists out there who don't know. Don't know anything about fitness, and so they're not gonna feel comfortable talking about it with their patients. Understood. Because they don't know whether it's safe or not. Mm-hmm. , right. First rule of medicine, do no harm. Right.

Right. And if you don't know the answer is no. Right. And that's unfortunate. And that shouldn't be true, but it is true. Mm-hmm. , because our biggest fear is harming someone. Absolutely. Right. And so, What, one of the things that I've been working on and how I got so involved in CrossFit Health and why I'm so passionate about it, despite the fact that it's not perfect, is because we need to get the word out there that this is safe for people and helps people.

Mm-hmm. . So, I mean, one simplest thing is every time I meet a new patient, you know, we, we do something called a social history, right? Are you married? Do you have kids? Did you ever smoke? Do you drink all, you know, you've all been asked these questions. One of the questions that I ask every patient, right, is do you exercise?

And what does that look like? And they look at me like I'm insane. Because they just got told they had metastatic cancer and they're like, why do you care if I exercise? And eventually, once we're through an acute crisis situation, right? We come around to why that's so important to their cancer care, right?

And how that may help them survive their cancer, or at least. Make their cancer journey much more

[00:29:37] David Syvertsen: tolerable in, in basic challenges. I'm, I'm just really curious what is, you know, you could probably go into a really deep answer on this, but what is some, some of the reasoning behind telling someone to exercise while they

[00:29:47] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: have cancer?

Yeah, so I mean, I think there's two different things. So there's the preventative aspects, so there's no question about it. Exercise helps prevent many forms of cancer, at least 20, 25 types of cancer. Okay. This has been proven 27 ways from Sunday. Exercise as a cancer treatment is a much newer field. Okay.

It's something that we call exercise oncology. That was a term that was actually coined by my mentor when I was a PhD student. Nice. That's cool. This field is really new. Yeah. And really my PhD was one of the first sort of mechanistic looks at why this works. We took some mice, we ran them, you know, versus mice that didn't run, gave them tumors, and looked at what happened to the.

And we were able to show that the tumors grew much more slowly. Wow. And when you combine that with chemotherapy, you could get more chemotherapy into the tumor for the same dose. Right, because you were improving the blood flow to the tumor. Right? Right. And there's some like very complicated science that, that goes beyond that, but that's you know, that, that was just one type of cancer.

There's, there's many different things. Now I work in, you know, melanoma, which is a much more immune driven cancer. It's treated by immune therapies. And we've learned that. used correctly can help boost the immune response. Okay? And so there, there's a lot that goes into this. But even if you took the effects of exercise on a tumor itself out of it, cuz I think that's still not something that we completely understand.

It's something that we know in mice and haven't yet completely proven in humans, right? What we do know is that every quality of life metric. For patients who exercise. This has been shown again, 27 ways from Sunday. Okay. Fatigue, you know, depression, anxiety, treatment related anxiety any of those types of quality of life metrics that you think about, they improve with exercise.

Okay? And so if I do nothing to improve your cancer, I have improved your quality of life, right? And quite frankly, that means I did my job. Hell

[00:31:41] Sam Rhee: yeah, Sam. Mind blowing, honestly. Yeah. That's awesome. Like it really is. And uh, I can't believe I haven't, we haven't talked about

[00:31:47] David Syvertsen: this yet. That was like, that was awesome to hear,

[00:31:49] Sam Rhee: really.

And you're a thousand percent right, and I don't, I know that everyone who participates in CrossFit and does CrossFit, the quality of life metric has to go up. I don't know anyone, and I know personally myself the, the same way. But does it have to be CrossFit? Like do you push CrossFit or do you just push exercise

[00:32:06] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: in general?

I. I talk about CrossFit. My, my patients know a lot of things about me. People have different relationships with their patients. I mean, one of the fun, sad but fun things about leaving has been the funny things that my patients have given me or known about me over the years. So I got like a Philly sweatshirt, that eagle sweatshirt the other day.

They're all gifts from patients because they know these things about me. Yeah. And so I certainly talk about CrossFit. Mm-hmm. . , they know that I coach on the side. Mm-hmm. And you know that the, those are things, but it doesn't have to be CrossFit, right? Honestly, absolutely. The recommendations are 150 minutes a week of moderate intensity exercise, which is something as simple as walking.

Mm-hmm. a little faster than you would normally stroll. Right. Right. Getting your heart rate up a little bit. Or 75 minutes of more vigorous intensity exercise. Something like a riding a bike, maybe a jog. Mm-hmm. . , it can be anything, right? And we purposely say it in minutes like that, so that you could do five minute blocks or 10 minute blocks.

Because if you sit down and you look at a patient who hasn't exercised and now has metastatic cancer or feels really unwell or just got diagnosed with diabetes or whatever it is, and say you need to go to an hour long class. , right. They're gonna be like, yeah, yeah.

[00:33:24] David Syvertsen: Okay. With snatches and handstand

[00:33:26] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: pushups.

Right. Or, or even just an hour long, I don't know. You name it, I don't wanna throw another, you know, type of fitness under the, under the bus. But like any class, right, right. That's super intimidating for someone who doesn't exercise five minutes a day. Right. And so, Moving your body. Right. When I give talks about this in academics, I say movement is medicine.

That's what I, that's what I title my talks. Mm-hmm. and that I truly believe that. Mm-hmm. CrossFit is great. Right. And many people will get there. And you know, over the years I've had many of my patients end up joining my CrossFit gyms. Nice. Right. But. That's not where it starts for most people, and that's fine.

Right?

[00:34:03] Sam Rhee: Yeah. What, what do you talk about on the nutrition side? Because Greg Glassman started with a big joust against big soda, and, and nutrition obviously is a, is a huge part of health. Maybe in, for some people even a bigger issue. Yeah.

[00:34:18] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: So I, I'm in nutrition, honestly, we all know this, right? Is is the end all and be all right.

Mm-hmm. , your body composition is made in the kitchen, not in the gym. Right. We all know that. Mm-hmm. . . You know, I, I think part of it is meeting patients where they are. Right. If you're taking someone who's never thought about a macro a day in their life or doesn't know what a macro is. Right. And I'm not gonna tell them to start counting macros.

Right. Exactly. Right. I'm not gonna talk about paleo, I'm not gonna talk about the zone or any of the numerous things CrossFit has done over the years. Mm-hmm. . We're gonna talk about eating high quality foods, you know, less sugar. , right. The, you know, fitness in a hundred words or nutrition in a hundred words.

Right, right. More plants like the simple things. Right. You know, I, I think one thing that I've had issue with CrossFit Health some over the years, and I know Sam, you and I have talked about this was the real focus for a while on this connection between sugar and cancer. And you know, one of my jobs is, while I certainly believe that none of us should be eating extra sugar and it's not good for any of us, right?

One of my job is to practice evidence-based medicine and there is no evidence that that sugar feeds cancer. There's absolutely no evidence. There is no evidence that cutting out sugar from your diet will make you survive cancer. Okay. Okay. So I can't recommend that to my patients. Right. I can say, look, I try to eat whole healthy foods.

Yeah. I try to minimize sugar because that's what's good and that's what makes us all healthy. Right? Right. But, This, you know, these very specific recommendations that have come out from people who aren't medical professionals and don't practice evidence-based medicine. Right. Those can be really problematic.

Right. Because it's the same thing as taking someone who doesn't work out and say, you have to go to CrossFit. Right? Right. And do an hour CrossFit class. Cuz that's the only way to do it. Mm-hmm. . Right? If you take a person who's, you know, drinks eight cokes a day and say you can't eat any sugar, . Yeah. It's gonna, it's gonna last three days.

Right. And one or you're out the other, yeah. Mm-hmm. . And they may try it and it's gonna crash. Right, right, right, right. And so you. It's about meeting people where they are. It's about using evidence. I think that's a huge part of my practice. Mm-hmm. is, you know, if people aren't sure, I say, all right, here's the paper.

Mm-hmm. , here's the randomized clinical trial. Right. I have so many patients who come to me and say, oh, you're, you know, cuz it's on my. Doctor profile too that I do, you know, fitness, exercise, CrossFit stuff. Mm-hmm. . And you know, patients come and say, you must believe that sugar feeds cancer. And I say, I don't.

Here are the three randomized trials that prove that wrong. Yeah. Right, right. And it blows

[00:37:00] David Syvertsen: people's minds most. Yeah. Most people do not go into that depth when they bring something like that up. You do. Yeah. So you, you, again, credibility here is enormous. So now CrossFit Health. where, where do you see it going?

Where would you like it to go? How do, how would that happen? Like what, what's your personal goal with CrossFit Health? Like what, where do you think its biggest value could be and

[00:37:22] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: how would you get there? Yeah. I think the biggest value is really in education, in the community, and that's really where I've been focusing.

I mean, Sam, you made mention of this, but you know, the last three years I've gone to the games and done seminars there. and you know, we've started doing some of these like, you know, videos similar to this mm-hmm. , to get out the community. What is evidence based? Right. What do we know scientifically?

What don't we know scientifically, which is equally important, right? And my field happens to be cancer, but there are, you know, plastic surgeons. There's rehab medicine doctors that are super involved. You know, there are, we're gaining sort of subject matter experts, as we've always called them in CrossFit, right?

in a lot of different fields of medicine, and I think one of the biggest things that we can do through CrossFit Health is just get the word out. We have. Community. Yeah. And platform. And platform. And we already have, you know, I always, I jokingly call it a captive audience, right? Yeah. Like, people call us a cult and there's some jerk to that, right?

But like, we have a captive audience, right? They'll listen, people listen,

[00:38:30] David Syvertsen: they'll listen. If I, I've always felt that if they, you know, got put more into the website, and just gave a lot more people a lot more material for people to lead, read, watch,

[00:38:39] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: listen to, and we're working on that, right? Yeah. So when I was at the games last year, you know, we've filmed four or five different Yeah.

I remember brief educational things and they've gone up throughout the year. That's awesome. You know, now that CrossFit sends out their daily Right. Email you

[00:38:53] Sam Rhee: know, blows me away every time I see you. I'm like, same here. Oh, I know

[00:38:56] David Syvertsen: that. I know her. That person. She's my seven

[00:38:58] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: 15 class. Um, Yeah, my, my husband actually goes to a different CrossFit gym and they were, I dropped in with him one time when he finally let me and felt comfortable letting me go to CrossFit with him.

And they were like, wait, wait, wait. Do I, haven't I seen you before?

[00:39:12] David Syvertsen: Oh yeah, probably. It's good though. That means people are seeing it. Yeah. But it means people

[00:39:15] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: are seeing it, right? Yeah. And so what I've been talking with CrossFit health leadership about has been doing. . Right. In all of these different fields.

Right, right, right. In preventative medicine. Mm-hmm. in sports injuries. Mm-hmm. in gut health. Gut health. Right. In all of these different things. Sexual health. Right. I mean, I think that's something very few people don't talk, you know, we talk about, but and using the platform that we already have mm-hmm.

because quite frankly, we have a lot of these experts in our community. Hell.

[00:39:47] David Syvertsen: I mean, you're, yeah, you being one of them. The prime example. Right. But we exist here. There's a lot of you. There's a lot of you.

[00:39:52] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: Yeah. And most of us love this stuff, right? Mm-hmm. , right. And do it for free. Right? Right. I have never gotten paid one day of my life other than coaching CrossFit classes, right.

To do any of these things. Right. Right. I love this stuff. Right. I get outta bed in the morning to do this stuff. And you love the community

[00:40:07] David Syvertsen: too. And I love the community. I feel that's a big part of, like, I kind of picked the that up on you right away. You just, you love the, whether it's the, this gym or just the whole, the whole community of CrossFit.

Yeah. And so this isn't

[00:40:17] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: something that needs quite frankly, a ton of money behind it. Right. Right. And that's been one of the things that I've been trying to focus on through all of the leadership change of CrossFit. Yeah. That this isn't something that's a huge investment. Mm-hmm. , right? These years that I've gone out to the games and done these seminars, I've flown out on my own dime.

I've paid my own way, like mm-hmm. and all of us would do that. Mm-hmm. , right? We care about this stuff. Right. And so that. . We just need to build on that expertise that we already have. Yeah. There's so much more we could do longer term. Yeah. But I think that's how it

[00:40:50] David Syvertsen: starts. Yeah. And I, I think it is going to go in that direction.

It is. This is not something that's gonna disappear it like it In CrossFit's defense, there have been so many changes at the top. Totally. And there are still changes occurring at the top with, with under the ceo. Like, who's leaving? Who's staying? And Dave Castro was on with Sivan. You know, love, love that podcast or not, right?

There's information that CrossFit Health got brought up and you could tell cashier started to get a little uncomfortable. I got the vibe that he definitely knows that it's. Needs to be, someone needs to take it to the next step and they need to as a team, but there are a lot of things that need to get taken care of.

But he said Crossroad Health is on the list and

[00:41:32] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: it, it has been, you know, it was under Greg, I will say that. Mm-hmm. , you know, love Greg or hate Greg wherever you fall in that spectrum. Yeah. You know, in the last years of. Tenure. This was something that he was really passionate about. Yep. It was under Eric and now it seems to be under, you know, new leadership.

Yeah. I think one of the things that has changed over the last year, which is a good change but has sort of slowed us down a little bit, was that CrossFit Health went from sort of its own entity to falling under CrossFit education. Mm-hmm. , I think that's actually a really great move. Mm. , because they're going to be doing a lot more educational seminars, things like that, right?

That started some of the efforts at the games, but also like nutrition certifications and, and other certifications hopefully, that you can get the same way we get a CrossFit gymnastics coaching cert, right? Mm-hmm. , right? So I, I actually think that's a good move, but it slowed us down quite a bit, you know, six months to a year of transition.

So I, I think some of these moves are really good. Yeah. You know, none of us are the most patient people. But that's true. You know, I, I I think they're happening. I, I can't go into too much detail Yeah. Right now. Yep. But there's a lot happening behind the scenes. And I will say that there are a couple of super passionate people, some that work for CrossFit HQ people like Karin Thompson, who has been running CrossFit Health from the very beginning.

And then people like myself that have been sort of volunteers to mm-hmm. to. , get it done. Yeah. And the movement is there, you know, the, the, the tidal wave can't be stopped at this point. Yeah. It just needs to happen.

[00:43:02] Sam Rhee: That's awesome. That's awesome. Do you think, I know, I keep hearing that Don Fall's goal is to get more people into CrossFit affiliates and to have more resources for CrossFit affiliates to feel empowered to do so.

How do you think CrossFit Health is going to do that for them? Let's, let's start with that.

[00:43:23] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: It's a great question. I think it's one we're gonna tackle over the next year, year and a half. I haven't had the opportunity to meet Don yet. He literally was named ceo, like the week that I was at the game, so, he was a little busy.

Yeah. . But I had had the opportunity to meet one-on-one with Eric when you know, he was more involved in the day-to-day. And this is definitely, you know, a priority of. Getting people in the door and teaching them more than the snatch. Right, right, right. Teaching them. , truly, you know, we've all, anyone who's ever been to a, you know, a level one knows the sickness, you know, wellness, fitness continuum, right?

Yeah. And I think there is this big focus on moving people towards wellness. Mm-hmm. , much beyond learning the movements in the CrossFit gym. So then exactly the form that that's gonna take under Don, I, I can't speak to yet.

[00:44:14] Sam Rhee: So if I'm owning an affiliate out there and. Am told, expect good things from CrossFit Health.

We're gonna help you raise awareness so that people will see you as well as Greg used to say, lifeboats, I suppose, out there to help people. Like is that truly what is going to happen?

[00:44:36] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: I think so, and I hope so. I mean, I, I could, I, could I put my nickel on that today and tell you I know exactly what the plan is.

I, I don't Right there, there's been a ton of leadership change even in just the last couple of weeks. Right. But there's definitely a lot of planning going on for things like educational packets. . Right. So, you know, one of the things that I've been doing is making sort of a cheat sheet that we can put up on the CrossFit website for gyms that have cancer patients.

Mm. Right. Okay. That says like, here are the general things you need to think about. Right? Does someone have a bone metastasis? Is it safe for them to load or not load? Right? If they have something that's spread to their brain, like what movements do we need to think about? Interesting. Because I've heard, I mean, this came really as an idea to me because people kept reaching out to me and saying, I want to do CrossFit, but I got turned away from a CrossFit gym because the coach didn't feel like it was safe.

Ah. Right.

[00:45:32] David Syvertsen: And so coach, coach needs to

[00:45:33] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: know more in that situation. Coach does need to know more, and it's not their fault either. No, no. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so I do, that stuff is coming. I, I can tell you because I'm working on it, , others are working on it, like literally actively working on it. On a more formalized, like systematic level.

I, I think that's what we'll hear more about over the next year. Cool. I, I can't tell you. I know exactly what the plan. .

[00:45:55] Sam Rhee: I think one of the things when you talk to most people who don't know much about CrossFit is they think it's, it's unsafe from a health perspective and, and we've been fighting that for a really long time.

I think providers could probably play a huge role in sort of blunting or mitigating or even changing that message. Don't you get that a lot from your own patients? Totally. Or the people you know around you, like totally. Like, this is gonna totally mess me up if I do that. So

[00:46:24] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: I, I have two answers. One of them is more flippant, depending on who I'm talking to.

I don't usually give flippant answers to patients, but, you know, you know, one of them is, you know, health heart disease is unsafe too. You know, I'd much rather, you know, have a chronic. Inflammation of my knee because I squat all the time. Then have, you know, cardiovascular disease long term and have a heart attack.

So that's sort of my flippant answer to this is yes, look, anything you do all the time, if you run marathons, guess what? Your ankles and your knees and your back get beat up and your hips and your everything else, right? If you go to spin class, there's their own. Yeah. Like anything you do all the time has repetitive use injury.

That's just true. Right? Good. . Right. And good programming mitigates some of that risk, but not all of it. There's no question about it. Look, I've been doing this a long time, I've had a lot of injuries. Right, right. But overall I'd rather have a bum shoulder. Right. Than have a bum heart. Right. So that's part of it.

I would say one of the things that you know, CrossFit Health is trying to do and is a longer term goal, is building in. Like CEUs and educational stuff for doctors that are not in the CrossFit community, just to spread that kind of message and understand scalability and things like that, that we're not asking someone who's never lifted a barbell in their life to start doing snatches and muscle ups on day one.

Right, right, right. Like, so, you know, yes. Providers are gonna play a huge role in that. We need to figure out. Get the word out to them. Some of that I think was very well intentioned. Not necessarily perfectly executed originally, but with the CrossFit MD level one s they have started up now again there was a very recent CrossFit MD level one.

They now have a level two for MDs, but they are also doing CrossFit healthcare providers. So the much broader community level one classes. And I think that's really important. Right. Getting, again, getting the word out to providers about how to talk to patients about this stuff. You, there's always gonna be doubters.

That's okay. Right. This also isn't for everyone. But, you know, getting the word out that movement is medicine, I think is where a lot of this starts. Hmm.

[00:48:32] David Syvertsen: That was awesome. Yeah. You have anything else, Sam? No. Allison. Anything else you wanted to get out? No,

[00:48:38] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: I mean, I, I think one really important thing is, you know, for, for anyone listening clearly, you're like, you are a CrossFitter, you're in this already.

Right? Right. But to Sam's point, like. , get out, talk to your friends about this. Mm-hmm. . And not just about the crazy workout you did, because we all do that. , right? .

[00:48:55] David Syvertsen: Oh my God, I'm so beat up. Oh my god, I'm so sore. Yesterday. Squad had two wall balls. Dave tried to kill me

[00:49:01] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: this week. Right. And we all do that because we love to tell war stories.

Right, right, right. But tell, know your audience. Yeah. But tell your friends the stories of, you know, the person who walked in the door at 300 pounds and lost a hundred pounds. Right. Tell your friends the story of, you know, the person who is pregnant and came in right. You know, this week and is due tomorrow.

[00:49:21] David Syvertsen: And even more, just some of the mental health gains that we've had with so many people, just like confidence in friendships and relationships that have been built here. Like, I think that's something. Everyone would feed off a

[00:49:31] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: little bit. Yeah. I mean, one of the biggest draws to me about CrossFit when I started way back when was the focus on health and what you could do.

Mm-hmm. . Right? I came from a gymnastics background. I was a division one gymnast. Right. It was about what you weighed and what you looked like. Right, right. And especially back then in, in CrossFit 2009, 2010 you know, cross. Was so focused on what you could do. Right? Right. Not what your body type was.

Right. Not what your body fat was. Mm-hmm. not what you looked like in a sports bra. Right. And unfortunately some of that has changed over the years and I think that's a loss for CrossFit.

[00:50:09] David Syvertsen: I agree. The marketing behind it

[00:50:10] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: has changed a lot. But. There's also been some great people, you know, really body positive people out there.

Mm-hmm. that have brought that message and I think I've seen just so many people over the years come from eating disordered backgrounds. Mm-hmm. and gained so much from being a part of this community and learning about the importance of being strong, not just skinny.

[00:50:31] David Syvertsen: Yes. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Those are the messages you want to get out.

These are the

[00:50:33] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: stories that we need to tell. Agreed. Right.

[00:50:35] Sam Rhee: Yeah. I think one of the biggest things that this talk I'm gonna come away with, You used CrossFit and exercise for when you were the most busy and most taxed mentally at work. And I think about all the people that I've talked to at our gym who says like, I need this because my work is so busy, because I am so taxed, because I have so many other things on my mind.

And it's not the physical stuff that some of these people rely on. It's the mental health and wellbeing. And I really do wanna emphasize that. I think I'm gonna push that more. that listen, you think you don't have time, but honestly if you're that stressed and frazzled Yeah. Like you gotta make, this might actually be more important than anything else you do.

[00:51:18] Dr. Allison Warner MD PhD: You know, I, I say this to patients a lot, but you know, patients are like, when they first get diagnosed, you know, I don't have time to be sick. And. , you know, and I say, well, you first, you, you already are sick, right? Yeah. But in the context of CrossFit, like people say, I don't have time to work out. Well, you don't have time to be sick either.

Right? Right. You don't have time to be depressed. You don't have time to not be able to get outta bed. You don't have time to have a heart attack. Mm-hmm. . And so, you know, there's short term, I don't have time, and there's long term. I don't have time. You know, one of the things that Dave and I talked about when I first joined Bison was we were coming off the main part of the pandemic.

Mm-hmm. I, I was in probably the worst physical shape of my life, but also the worst mental shape of my life. Yeah. Yep. Right. I was literally a frontline doctor in Manhattan. Mm-hmm. through the height of the pandemic. Yeah. Right. Doing seminars around the country, like by Zoom, trying to teach people how to treat Covid patients.

Cuz we had made it up as we went along. Wow. And when I walked in the door, I was like a very broken person. Right, right. And over the last year, year and a half, two. , the ability to find that community again and, you know, start to find myself through that again. You know, has just been tremendous. You know, my, I think that's a huge part of actually why my husband ended up starting to do CrossFit because he saw just how saw the turn, saw the turn for me of going from, you know, pretty significant depression, ptsd, whatever you wanna call it, right?

Yeah. To, you know, really starting to feel like myself again. And you know, that is invaluable. And you don't have to go through something like being a doctor in a pandemic, you know, like anything that happens in your life. community. More so even than the fitness, though the fitness really matters.

Mm-hmm. right can change your life for the better. Yeah.

[00:53:04] David Syvertsen: That's a great way to end it. Thanks so much, Allison. This was awesome. So much. So much good information there. I'm gonna probably listen to this one a few times. That was really good. All right, we'll see you guys next time.