S03E87 HOW TO BUILD A CROSSFIT COACHING STAFF

How do affiliates hire coaches? Is there one best way to find coaches? What factors are important in building a coaching staff? If you ask any athlete, the number one consideration they have for a box is exactly that: the coaches.

Dave and Sam discuss their thoughts about building a coaching staff, drawing upon Dave's experience as owner and coach at @crossfitbison over the years.

@crossfittraining @crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate #personalizedfitness

S03E87 HOW TO BUILD A CROSSFIT COACHING STAFF

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: Welcome back to the Herd Fit podcast. I'm Coach David Syvertsen. I'm here with my co-host, Dr. And coach Sam Rhee. We have interesting topic today, and this is going to center around how to build a CrossFit coaching staff for an affiliate. I remember back when we started said this very early on, I said, these are going to be the most important decisions we ever make.

More important than the flooring, the equipment. , the lease, where to open, how much you know to pay ourselves early on, how much to put back into the business. Those are all important decisions. None of them are even close to who should be coaching at your gym. And we did it really slowly. It put a lot of work on us early on, and I'm glad that we did it this way.

And if I were to do it again before I was consulting someone, this is how I'd do it. Ex I would do the same thing all over again. . But again, it's, there is no template, and I'm not saying what we did was right. It's worked out pretty well in my opinion. But we're gonna dive into what to do, what to think about, what to look for, and then how to react to certain situations when you're building a coaching staff because they really are the pillars.

Of an affiliate. You know, it's not your good athletes. It's not even the owners, it's the staff. It's the coaching staff. It's the people that are in front of the classes. The most important part of the day and across a gym are the classes, not the big ones, not the small ones, just the classes and who's in charge of the room during the classes.

It's the coach. And if they're good, it makes everything else everyone else better. If they're bad, it makes everything else, everyone else worse to the point where that could be the end. And I've said this to our coaches before, I was like, if you make the wrong mistake, it could be the end of us. And I want them to feel that kind of pressure.

I feel the pressure 24 7, 365, and I have, I felt that way for nine years. And you never feel comfortable. It's just never gonna happen. And it's okay. You sign up for that. So this, this can go in a couple different directions. I don't wanna get too deep into it. I kind don't wanna say, how should I build myself for the ground up?

Because right now some of you own a gym and you might need to rebuild it, rebrand it. You might just be a new owner of an existing gym. , but I, I want to go back to the beginnings almost of how to build a staff and then wherever your gym is, if you're an owner or if you go to a gym, you can kind of put yourself into this conversation at some point.

You know, if you've opened for two years, you probably don't need to listen to the next 10 minutes, but at some point this is going to apply to you, Sam, building a coaching staff, when you first saw this topic, What was your initial thought?

[00:02:33] Sam Rhee: Well, I know that you and Bison has had a pretty unique perspective.

Yeah, and I've actually went to other gyms, especially early just to learn more about other gyms, cuz I was like, is bison really? Like every other gym out there. And I, I wouldn't necessarily say it's better. It's just different flavors. Yes. And, and a lot of it is culture or the location or the personality of the owner.

Yep. And so some of this is, I mean, now that I've had more perspective on it, I have to say I do truly believe the process was done really exceptionally well at bison and that. , and obviously I'm very biased because I'm a co-chair and you pick me to coach. So , so I'm like, great job picking

[00:03:18] David Syvertsen: me after, after first declining us, by the way,

No, no,

[00:03:21] Sam Rhee: no. I, I recall it a little differently, but thank you. So I would say but there are some really valuable principles that I think are universal for every gym in terms of how do you pick a good

[00:03:34] David Syvertsen: coaching staff. Yeah. So let's go right into it. Here's the first one. Should the owner of the gym be a coach?

And. , this is usually the case, right? Someone wants to open up their own CrossFit, have their own business, right? They put whatever money they have together whether it's by themselves or with a group of people. They open up the gym and they're like, okay, so we need to get people in here and we need to coach classes.

Should that owner be a coach? My gut says the owner should always be a coach, and there are certain circumstances that would take that away. I don't wanna go too deep into them. It has to do with like finances and money. Right. But I think the number one way to show that there's a lot of pride in your gym and a lot of belief in your gym.

The programming, the way we do things, the methodology behind CrossFit is the person that does have the most at stake is actually working at the gym. Right. The owner is the one that puts the money in, puts the time in. You know, Chris put a lot of money in. I put some in, and then I left my job and basically bottomed out my bank account while we're going, you know, going to bed at 10 o'clock, waking up at four.

I don't know if I would feel that way. , the feel that the urge to do that if I was just a salaried employee, but because I had the most at stake, I was, it, it answered every question, should I do it or not? Hell yeah. You need to do this because you, you are relying on this and it's hard. It's a really hard thing to start from scratch.

It's a really, really hard and but I, I, I like the idea of overcoming things that are hard, especially when you're the one that benefits maybe the most.

[00:05:12] Sam Rhee: I think if you, unless you have more money than time, like you're gonna coach, you're gonna coach your own gym, right? And there are very few people that are that liquid that they can say, well, I'm just gonna hire a bunch of people and I, and I'm too busy to actually coach.

Right? I mean, what is your level of commitment to this gym? And you're right, that's what's reflected by the time commitment you. Coaching. Right. I have seen other gyms where the owner coaches a very limited amount of classes or none. Or, or none. Yep. And you're right, the salaried employees follow your lead.

Right. And I have seen you year in and year out from the beginning, coach handle. You know, classes of one for years and then classes of 30 for years. Yeah. And the fact that when you see your leader commit and put that kind of time and energy into it, as opposed to just coming in and being like, ah, good job.

All right. See you later. Yeah. You know, stay strong, like that, that there is an added level of commitment right? From, from everybody else because of that,

[00:06:17] David Syvertsen: right? Like lead by example, not by words, right? Like, what do you do, right? People are always gonna follow what you do. So if, if you're telling certain people to act a certain way, but then you don't act a certain way, whether it's subconscious or conscious, eventually it's just gonna fall apart.

You know, I always think the owner should be a coach or someone involved. They don't always need to be the head coach, though I will say that. But there should be a head coach. There should be one guy or girl that is in charge of the staff. Ideally, they're in charge of the programming, but they don't need to be.

Okay. They coach the most, they fill in the most and they see everyone. Those are the components of a head coach to me. So I think you need to look at how many classes does your coach want to have in a week. And then I think that coach, you know, you put your schedule together with your part-timers, your full-timers, right?

At the end of the year, you have a spreadsheet of who coached X amount of classes. The head coach should be the one that's coached the most, and it shouldn't even be close. Okay. That that's that ideally in charge of programming. The only reason I feel that way, and I know of several gyms that don't do this, so I'm not coming down on anyone, but the reason I've liked that and helps us out I think, is when there is a question about a workout, a stimulus, what did this, what was this like, what should I expect when I'm coaching a class for this workout?

You know, I give a lot of respect to our coaches that did not write it up and they could still coach a class. It's easier. I will say this, it's easier for me to coach a workout that I've programmed than it is for people that are not. Now, hey, if you're a good coach, you gotta figure that stuff out. But whenever there's a question or a confusion or there's a mistake, right, that that head coach needs to be the someone that can really give that immediate answer like, Hey, I messed up.

We gotta do this. Hey, this worked out this way. You gotta do this. , why should they coach the most? Why, why should they fill in the most? I've experienced this a lot. I think I, I've felt this more since Brock has been born two and a half year old. For those that don't know and. . I, I still feel like I've had opportunities take a step back from coaching, and I, I do coach a little less than I did even like two years ago, three years ago, but it's still the most on the staff.

But I also, without a doubt, fill in the most. So when someone's out vacation, sick, kids sick, I'm usually the one that does it. I would say out of 10 classes, I'm u I usually do seven to eight of those covers. Right. And our other owner, our co-owner, does the second most fill-ins. And I think the reason is, The owner is the one that has the most at stake, the most to gain the most to lose.

And when there's an inconvenience that comes your way, they should be the one that goes and puts themselves out there. And then the last thing I have about the head coach is that they see everyone. That essentially means that ideally throughout the course of the year, maybe not every quarter or every month, every week, even.

they coach the morning, they coach the midday, they coach the night, they coach the weekends so that the, everyone in the gym, the members, they know who it is. They might not like the coach. They might not, that might not be their favorite coach. But that, it's important to me that the head coach can have a conversation about any member at any given time with another coach.

You know, we had a little situation here at the gym a couple days ago. Right. And I. I had, I was able to talk about that member with our other coaches because I did beginner with him. Right. I've never coached him in a class yet. It was his first class and, but we had a little situation and I was able to offer some input and tell our coaches, Hey, if this guy comes across, or Liz had to coach him the next day, gave her a little paragraph about him.

So what are your thoughts on the head? .

[00:09:51] Sam Rhee: Well, I think this is a little unusual again, at Bison because you are the owner of the head coach and you do the programming and you have put in. An insane amount of time. Right? And, and you have these crazy skills, which are, I think, fairly unique. Like you have really good memory of athletes and how they move.

And if I'm like, if I just lean one out of our 300 athletes, you could be like, Yeah, she's pretty good at the squat. She's not so great at gymnastics, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, how the hell do you remember

[00:10:23] David Syvertsen: all

[00:10:23] 2023_0122_1120: this?

[00:10:23] Sam Rhee: Yeah. And if I said, oh yeah, do you remember that open workout from three years ago, like this one with the, and you're like, oh yeah, that one with the wall walks and this and this.

You remember this crap? Like, yeah. Like unlike most people I've ever met. Right? So you have a singular talent. And so I don't think it's necessarily fair or appropriate for. Everyone to expect that if you're gonna have, if you're gonna be an owner, if you're gonna be a head coach, that, that this is the level of either commitment, skill, talent, ability that, that you might have.

Okay. And we take it for granted honestly, as coaches and as athletes that you're the go-to, like the owners are the go-to people. We can reach out, we can always hand, like, you guys always handle this stuff. It's not gonna always respond. Ideally that is the case, right? But if you are that head coach and you're like, I don't feel like I'm up to this situation.

Like if you head

[00:11:17] David Syvertsen: like I would, let's say if I ever left, right? Yeah. Oh my God. Then one of our coaches

[00:11:21] Sam Rhee: got, oh, I was just thinking that and I was just like, I don't think any of us would, like five of us wouldn't be able to fulfill the responsibilities of that appropriately. But ideally, if you are that person, you should try to, right.

And I think that those are the aspirational. Goals That Right. You maybe wouldn't fulfill your first year in it. And let's face it, you've done this for a

[00:11:42] David Syvertsen: while. That's where I, that's what I was getting to and you

[00:11:44] Sam Rhee: probably, I don't wanna say sucked, when you first started, oh, I sucked . But you gave it all of your effort.

Yes. And you've gotten better every

[00:11:51] David Syvertsen: year. I was just telling the story to my classes the other day that I coached a Tabata at CrossFit. Hoboken and Tabata is four minutes of 20 seconds on 10 seconds. So it's eight sets, right? Yeah. And my first time coaching, I just started Tabata and I thought it was eight minutes.

So I made my entire class do eight minutes of Tabata. So twice the amount of work of everyone else in the gym, . Then the coach came in and said, what are you doing ? So, yes, I did suck. Still have a lot to work on, but let's take away the comparison out of it and say, this is why I think the experience matters so much.

Like if you are the head coach, It's not, you get to direct traffic and tell people what to do. It's actually the opposite. You should be doing the most amount of work. Like when I make the schedule, this still sucks by the way, right? Whenever we change up the schedule at the gym, everyone gives me what they can, what they can't, and then what they want.

And I'm basically just left with the scraps, right? There are certain things I have to move around a little bit with Brock, and again, I wanna see a lot of different classes in people. , but when you're the head coach, it you ha you do have to coach the most. You have the least amount of routine as everyone else you have to fill in the most.

And that in short time might suck. There are still days right now, I'm like, this blows, but. It gives you that experience for when you're nine years in, it's crazy how long it's been, right? Nine years in, you really, you're prepared for everything. So you might look like you're a genius, but you're just not.

It's just because you've done this so many times and you've been through these same situations over and over. Like example, Chris and I talk about this all the time, whenever we have a Dealt two, and Liz too, they've coached a lot, lot of classes, they've seen a lot of people. When someone new comes to the gym, We could say three sentences, maybe two about the person, and then give like a comparison to someone we've coached and we just immediately know who we're talking about, like, and it's amazing.

But that comes from experience. So, all right now, so we have the owner outta the way. We have the head coach outta the way. Let's talk about now you're starting to build a staff. And the most important part, this is probably the most important part of the podcast. You need to decide what you want your culture.

Sorry. You need to decide what your culture is going to be and then right away whether you have members or not, whether you have a staff or not, your actions need to start feeding into that culture that, and then now you will start attracting certain people to the gym and then that's when you could start create some.

Started to create some momentum. Right. Let's talk about brazen, right. Remember brazen Athletics, right? Yeah.

[00:14:18] Sam Rhee: In Hoboken

[00:14:19] David Syvertsen: and Fairfield. Fairfield. And then Jay went to Black House, Jay uh, and Jay, and they always had step owner, coach. They always had a really good staff, but they were all, they had a culture there and yes, they did aggressive, passionate, strong as hell,

Yeah. A lot of squatting. Yeah. That. That to me, I think they helped me out a lot early on by for me observing them of saying like, Hey, that's what they want their culture to be. I wanted our culture to be something a little different, not better or worse, but it showed me from a macro perspective that. The owner set that culture and then he's starting finding the people that wanted to be a part part of building that culture and making it stronger from that same perspective.

And that's what made brazen a really good gym back in the day. And they're still running strong right now. I think they're one of the older cross the gyms in the, in the state. Don't

[00:15:11] Sam Rhee: you think that that was a reflection of the personality of the owner? So how do you actually make a culture that. , like maybe is or isn't your

[00:15:21] David Syvertsen: personality, right?

I mean, I would assume in most cases the person that starts the gym and, and again, has the most at stake, they are allowed to set their own culture based on their personality. I mean, how many people would say like, I don't like my personality, I don't want people to be like me when I'm here. Right. I would think that you go into, across a gym saying you want it to be a certain way, and it's somewhat based on your own bias.

I'll admit that part of our culture at Bison is what I wanted it to be, what Chris wanted it to be, what Ashley wanted it to be, which is. That I feel you can pursue high level performance and community fitness at the same exact time, in the same exact room 24 7 365. That is true. That is

[00:15:58] Sam Rhee: the principle that has guided you guys.

[00:15:59] David Syvertsen: Yeah, I I really think that it, it, you don't need to separate the two, and I've heard it's a mistake to separate the two, in my opinion and, and our culture. And then the secondary part of our culture is, , you put others before yourself. And when you have a a room full of people doing that, it everyone benefits.

Right? And does everyone do it? No, but it's still our culture. And I've had a lot of new people come to this gym from other gyms in the past year too, and they said that's one of the first things they noticed. They feel welcomed when they come in. And hey, when I say putting others before yourself, it's not just.

It's just saying hi to someone when they come in. It's amazing how many times you go to a gym, no one says hi to you.

[00:16:38] Sam Rhee: Oh yeah. I've just dropped in a couple times last year and that was exactly what

[00:16:41] David Syvertsen: happened. The coach doesn't introduce you. Nope. Right? Like I had a couple new people at the Saturday and like, I've actually made this mistake a few times.

Your head's running around a little bit. But whenever I have someone new at the class, like I put that person on the spot, Hey, welcome from Florida. Hey, blah, blah, blah, blah. Make a little joke sometimes that no one ever laughs at, but whatever, . But like you try to make them feel. Before going to an intense workout with the girl that was here yesterday.

She was like, yo, your gym is fit. It's an intimidating place to come to. So I, I think that's what our culture is. So again, what do you want your culture to be? Build it. And then that's when you start finding out what coaches fit that culture the best. Because I'll say this, I don't know when I was gonna say this.

I was gonna try to find a time to say this, but. There are a lot of capable, very good coaches that want to coach at this gym and other gyms, and we've said no, or we don't. Right now we just don't have room on our staff. But I've said no to really good CrossFit coaches and it has nothing to do with how good or how bad they are.

All right. It's more about I want the gym to be a very specific way and stay on this path, and there might simply be someone that's a little bit better at that part of it. You might be better at teaching cues for sure. You might be, you wanna have more experience, you might have more friends in the gym, but I want the culture to be a certain way.

So that's where I think an owner, you, that's the first place you need to go. What do you and your culture might be a moving target. Let's say you're trying to start a new gym. You open it up and you want it to be just like bison or just like brazen. And then you notice a year in like, . The, the P, it's not happening.

It's, it's not the people. You might adjust your culture and then again, you need to pivot who

[00:18:15] Sam Rhee: you hire. I think some of this is, I'm not a very corporatey kind of person. Yeah. But they would maybe say mission statement, right. Or some other type of like corporatey jargon. I think the other thing is, is that it may not just be picking coaches that have that.

Culture, but you are, you are picking coaches that have the potential to embrace that culture. Because I think when I started, it wasn't like I necessarily knew explicitly, like this was the culture and this is what I had to work for every day. Right. But you probably saw me like, yeah, I bet you with training and as Sam went along Yep.

This is sort of he could understand

[00:18:54] David Syvertsen: Yep. And grow into this, and I'll say this, I, I creep on people all the time, how they act on. Social media in regard to CrossFit, not in your personal life, how they act peop how they treat people during a, during a class. Are they always going to their old same people?

Do they branch out ever? How are they socially with people? Like, I'm watching that stuff all the time, and you might think I'm a creep for it, but I don't care. It, it's, it's my business. Like we have to do it that way. And what did I say at the start? It's the most important part of the gym. Most important part of the decision process in a gym is the coaching.

you have to go overkill with just watching and observing people over time too. It can't be a few months. I think you're good at picking potential. Yeah. Right. Now what's next? Hiring from within, this is a, a fun topic. Hiring from within your community or hiring from the outside. So I've seen CrossFits, they go onto.

LinkedIn, social media, whatever. It's LinkedIn. Even a thing still. I don't even know. But anyway, they go out and they, they, Hey, we're hiring. We want to coach full-time, part-time, both one, I don't know. Right. And we've never done that. You would never do that? No. It would be fun. It would be like Chris and I would be like, it would be fun to just interview people and just see like what's out there.

But every coach we've had, we have 12 now. Every coach has come from our gym through the membership. For the most part, the only person that hasn't was Mike, and we've known Mike since 2012 and had a really good relationship. So I still, in my opinion, and he did coach at our gym prior to actually being on our staff.

He was at our community events a lot. I came to the holiday party. I'm like, yo, who's this guy? Oh, it's Mike. So the I still consider him a hire from within. When we first started doing this, you know, someone started running their mouth a little bit. Socially and said was criticizing us, saying Dave and Chris need to stop hiring for people from the gym.

What are your thoughts on this?

[00:20:49] Sam Rhee: I can't imagine picking someone off of LinkedIn off of a resume and then interviewing them and then putting them in. That's like the weirdest thing I could, I could actually imagine , I think it's a, it would be a full on crap shoot at that point. Yeah. You don't know what you're getting.

Right, exactly. And I've done, because I've done that. Yeah. I'm sure you have. In my business. I'm sure you have. And sometimes you get someone great and sometimes you run through like three, like you expect you're not gonna. Hit the jackpot the first, second, maybe even third hire. Yeah. Like you just have to play 'em out and then see, and if they don't work out, you just send them along on their way.

Have you had to fire

[00:21:22] David Syvertsen: someone? Oh yeah. I, oh

[00:21:23] Sam Rhee: really? Are you kidding me? ?

[00:21:26] David Syvertsen: Plenty of times. I would hate to be fired by you. . No.

[00:21:29] Sam Rhee: Listen dude, I am a good boss. I will tell you that right now. I'm sure you are, but I'm sure you are. But I will say, yeah, it's oftentimes not really a good fit. Yeah. And why wouldn't

[00:21:38] David Syvertsen: you want to, can I ask.

Yeah. Have you ever hired someone that you knew, like, someone like came to you said like, Hey, Sam, like I need a job, or, Hey Sam, like my daughter, my son could use a job and, and that you knew the person Yes. And you kind of hired them for that reason. Yeah.

[00:21:50] Sam Rhee: So a referral from someone, you know Yeah. That you trust is probably the best thing.

Okay. And that helps a lot. And yeah, I mean that, that's the thing you have, you have to be able to have some sort of handle on who they are. Right. And why wouldn't you hire from within the gym? Yeah. I mean, you could hire from another gym if you knew who they were. Right. Like, and I could u I could see you doing that.

Yeah. But if they're really that good, they're probably really wanted by their own gym. Right.

[00:22:17] 2023_0122_1120: So

[00:22:17] David Syvertsen: it would be hard that could bring up some gym drama type. Like if I You know, if I went to a gym in the area and like tried to take their best coach and try to get some members a little bit of a dirty move.

It happens though. It's the real world. You know, that's always your fear as an owner that someone comes and offers, you know, one of our coaches, Hey, here's your a hundred thousand, $150,000 salary coach. Five classes a week. You know, are you gonna get us members ? You know, that that's part of the risk of doing this and.

But that, that's another way of hiring coaches if you really need to get business, is go hire a coach from another gym. I think that's a dirty move though, and it's gonna come back and bite you. And a component to this is, I think it's really important to not hire out of necessity. Like you try to stay ahead of the curve, right?

For example, let's say. , we lose four coaches tomorrow for whatever reason. Right. And now we're like, oh crap, we gotta go hire someone real quick. You know, like that, that could lead to a mistake. Do you have someone in mind if you had to do that? I do. You do? Yeah, I have a couple right now. Oh, you, you we're gonna have to talk off Yeah.

off camera. Okay. Make sure that thing's off.

[00:23:19] Sam Rhee: I know, I, I might get fired and then somebody else might step in really quick here. He already has my substitute plan.

[00:23:24] David Syvertsen: That's funny. But no, I, I think that's part of, yes. You gotta be, that's part of owning a business general is always be ready for something bad to happen.

But I always like, does we, Ash and I talk about this a lot, do we need 12 coaches? No, we don't. We, we could probably get away with nine or 10, but it, it's nice that if we did lose someone, someone got fired or someone moved. Right. I'm always fearful that that's gonna happen at some point that you have.

some, a available help on your staff. Like I, we would be fine if we lost a couple coaches, right? Four. Maybe not, but that would be, but I would go into it saying, all right, I wanna replace that person. Right. Eventually, like we hired a squire. Yeah. And that was a move lingering in my head for probably a year, nine months in a year.

But we didn't need it right away, so it was kind of just waited for the right time. And when, right there from there, full-timers versus part-timers. This is a money question more than it is a logistic question in terms of your schedule. But, you know, we have, I guess you would call three full-time coaches on our staff.

We have 60 to 65 classes a week. Somewhere in that range. And we by far coach the most. And then you have our part-timers. They coach anywhere from two to three weeks. That's the requirement. All right? We don't hold them to like two weeks of vacation. It's just like, Hey, when you're around, you're gonna coach two to three, pay them.

Well, all that stuff. We'll get into that in a little bit too. Take care of them as much as we can without putting ourselves in a hole. Do you, what do you see in a contrast between a full-time coach and a part-time coach? Because I'll say this, none are better than the others. I wanna make sure we put that out there.

I will

[00:24:57] Sam Rhee: tell you that most. Podcast that I've listened to about coaching and hiring there said, if you're a real gym, you should try to get rid of as many of your part-time coaches and fill it with full-time coaches cuz they're the ones that are dedicated. They're the ones who are gonna be the most experienced.

And you might get by at the beginning with your box, having a bunch of part-time coaches cuz you can't afford it or you can't, or you don't have the personnel, but try to get rid of all of them and fill 'em with full-time, as fast as you can. That's the strategy and that's what I've constantly heard, I'll

[00:25:25] David Syvertsen: admit.

um, Out loud that I've thought about doing that probably even within the past few years is all the coaches are full-time. So if you're a part-time coach, you're just someone that like, Hey, in a pinch, we'll get you, we'll pay you. But like some of the agreements that we have money wise, they're not gonna be there.

And we just have four or five full-time coaches. And I, I've gone away from that thought. I, I've second guessed my thought on that because our part-time coaches are so valuable to our community. It's, so what I would consult someone to do would say, It really does. It's based on who your staff is and like, I don't wanna make that kind of change.

We would lose a lot of of flavor and value in the gym if we just said, all right, part-timers, you're gone. One of you is a full-timer, two of you're full-timers, everyone else, you're just gone. In some cases though, I will say scheduling and not dancing around so many other things would be easier, right?

Like if it's your full-time job, it's like we're not making 37 accommodations for you every year. It's gonna be like you get three weeks of vacation or four weeks of vacation some personal time if you need it, and that's it. And you don't get to pick your own schedule. Like I think sometimes we'll lose track.

How many people have these normal jobs, like every single day they have to go from here to here at this time, come back at this time, five days a week, the traditional nine to five, eight to five, right across the coaches, we, we, we get the benefit of having, you know, a random day off in the middle of the week.

We load up on one day. We have often this day, we have a lot of flexibility. I can trade my schedule. I'm going away in a couple days a couple weeks. for four days. I'm not taking time off. I'm just gonna trade my schedule with someone else, and then we're good to go. Right. That's the, those are the kind of the advantages that you get.

But it's, it's, there are so many moving parts, you know, if there's 12 coaches on your staff, there's 12 personalities you gotta manage. Some are easier than others, right. Or 12 lives, I should say. You should balance, right. We have two coaches about to have a kid, and I'm never gonna be the person like, no, come to coach man.

Like, no, I'm gonna tell 'em the opposite. Like, stay home for the next couple weeks. Right. We'll take care of it. But when you have more pieces of the puzzle like that, that are constantly moving and changing, it can be harder. It's hard

[00:27:29] Sam Rhee: as a part-time coach to get better faster. That's, that's another good point.

That's really hard cuz I see it myself. So when I was so I'm coaching three classes a week. Yep. And I might pick up more. Right. But the issue is, is that I have to make that those three classes. , I have to ring the most out of it as a coach, right? Because it's, it, it's about repetition and it's about, you know, it's like, it's like at bats.

I mean, how many at bats can you get to be a better baseball

[00:27:57] David Syvertsen: player? It's a great point. It's like, it's like starts for a college quarterback, right? They talk about this every year. I'm an NFL draft nerd, so it's coming up, but that is a huge black eye on someone's resume that they only started 13 games as opposed to the guy that started 40 games.

This guy Brock Purdy on the nine. . They say he, I think he started like 48 games in college and that matters. The repetition matters. Absolutely. It's a seventh round pick. He's playing in divisional playoffs

[00:28:21] Sam Rhee: and, and what you get exposed to, I mean, that's part of why I said, listen, let me flip from nights to mornings.

Yeah. I need to be able to handle 20, 30 people in a class and do that. Efficiently. I am still learning like that. That's why I feel hamstring, that why do I do the Wednesday workout on Sunday? Yep. Because I don't have the skillset yet to look at a workout the way you do. Right. And say, okay, this is how long it's gonna take.

This is what's gonna feel hard. This is where the stimulus really needs to be. Yeah. I am practicing it. And I imagine it before I do the workout. That's another great

[00:28:52] David Syvertsen: point. I would, I didn't even go there. I do

[00:28:53] Sam Rhee: the workout and then I'm like, did my imagination line up with the actual right? And then I think about it.

And so I'm trying to ring the most out of my training as a coach out of every class. And I'm s. I'm still not there, but I know in five weeks I'll be better. Yeah. And then another 10 weeks. Yep. And the more classes I pick up, the better I'm gonna be with it. Right. But you're right. A part-time coach, it's so much harder for us to get better than, say, someone who's coaching like Liz constantly.

Like she's and Mike. They're so good and smooth. Yeah.

[00:29:23] David Syvertsen: At so many things. They're ready for everything because they're just getting so many at bats. Yeah. Yep. That's that's a great point. So it's like, so there's two sides, right? The gym. The coaching at your gym is probably better if everyone's full-time. If you have five coaches that are full-time as opposed to 12 with only three full-timers.

Right? But. , the, the culture in the community could be worse, right? Because what if you don't have like the five best coaches or people, there's some people they just don't like, or let's say we did this at bison. We're not, don't worry. Okay? But let's say you fire seven coaches and then the two of them stay on full-time, right?

Some of those coaches that you fire or get rid of, right? Lay off whatever the term is, right? That is the favorite coach of some people. That's the favorite playlist of some people. That's someone's friend, someone's spouse to all of a sudden not have that anymore. That that would be a really hard change.

It could actually make the community worse. So this is something an owner always has to think about when you're building a staff is the coaching, building a coaching staff is partial coaching, and then partial your community. Now that was one of the things I was gonna wrap this up with in a little bit, was the coaching classes versus community social aspect.

That can kind of get a little hairy sometimes as well. All right. How many coaches do you need and the personalities of these coaches? Okay. , the, the, the volume of coaches, we kind of just dove into it a little bit. Are they full-time, are they part-time? How many classes per week do you have? Right. That, that's, I feel like we just already answered that, you know, it, it, but the, the personalities and the types of coaches, this is where I think there's a disconnect.

Again, like I said, I've had people ask to coach here. I know other owners have dealt with this too. You say no, and it has nothing to do with their, them personally or their capability. It's, I already have two of you on the staff. All right. I already have people that are exactly like you on the staff, and in my opinion, I don't want coaches that are exactly the same.

I do want. The laid back, boring, shitty music coach, because I'll tell you what you do. I'll tell you what, there's some people in the gym that like it. They don't want to come in here and bang their heads against the wall and like not be able to hear themselves think. Um hmm. I mean, according to that coach that plays the shitty music

Just kidding. But. There are some people like, I'm gonna use Brian DeCarlo for an example, right? He, his volume on the music in the, in the gyms is, it's low. Like, I've actually like, noted that a few times. I'm like, man, like it's, it feels dead. But I'll tell you what, there are people that have told me they like that because they get more coaching that way.

It's less about intense. And Brian comes over and Brian is a good coach. Brian has a lot of good cues for a lot of different things. He's not just lifting. I've actually learned more about handstand pushups from him than, than anyone. And and, and I think. You need to have that person. That's not always the fire breather.

Like if everyone was like me or everyone was like Liz or everyone was like Mike or Chris, right? I'm just gonna go through all of our coaches so no one feels left out. But the gym wouldn't be as good. And I think an owner or person that's hiring coaches. , you need to like constantly because these are moving targets, right?

People change. Yeah. People on our staff have changed a lot in the past few years, right? You need to be cognizant of what they're bringing personality-wise to the gym and maybe even outside the gym a little bit, and make sure that if you do hire someone new, it's not too repetitive that they have their own kind of like niche, their own personality.

What are your thoughts on that? Is this gonna be a, a topic in, in and of itself?

[00:32:47] Sam Rhee: Yeah. I, I do feel that you have picked a diverse number of. Types of people, and whether that was intentional or it was just organic, it, it's kind of interesting. I don't know. Yeah. You should I don't know about the shitty music thing.

I, I feel like , but but I intentionally sometimes will play music that's. Different than say what the morning people normally get. Smart. Smart. Just because, well, first of all, the workouts are usually a little different on Wednesdays. Yep. Yep. And two, it's like, it's a little counter counterprogramming a little bit.

Yep. Like, you know,

[00:33:19] David Syvertsen: that's my next topic, but we'll get into that.

[00:33:21] Sam Rhee: Keep going. Yeah. So, I don't know. I feel like. , as long as those personalities have certain traits. Yeah. And that goes back to culture. Yeah. If they care about service, if they care about helping every individual athlete.

Right. And in terms of their skillset, then you're right. Sometimes, they talk about cues, right? You can have verbal. Tactile or visual cues. And some coaches do different things cuz of their personality and athletes will respond differently to that. Right? So that, that, that in and of itself is, is a good thing.

[00:33:52] David Syvertsen: Yep. Now, socially personalities, right? Because we're not always the same people socially as we are at the gym. But how involved should a coach be social? And I'm really just talking about their personality, their circle of friends, their group of friends. This can get, this can get tough. This can be a really thing, hard thing to talk about.

We're not gonna go too deep into it. example, we, we have a few like structured events a year throughout the gym, like four to six, like real parties at the event. But then you have people that get together every weekend, right? And to each their own, right? A coach does not to be, does not need to be anyone's friends.

Like that's something that they all know. Like I don't give a shit who you're friends with at the gym at all. But I want you to be at some of these social functions so that the people in the gym see the human side to you and maybe get, you know, you a little bit better, but is there a number? Of how many times they should go out.

I'll be honest with you, I'm not the most social person in general. I do like going out with people from the gym and some of 'em are like my actual friends. But there are times I'll go to something and be like, you know what, like I should go right. I, it's, I should go see people that I don't normally see out.

I should, I feel like it's a responsibility sometimes, not all the time. , but I also know some coaches that we just, we almost never see them out and they're usually credible reasons. Kids, sports jobs. Right. They can't get out. Right. And I, I've never told a coach ever to make sure they go to something.

I've always asked like, Hey, can you guys go to the open party please? Like that kind of thing. What are your thoughts about the hiring? Again, keep the topic of hiring coaches, building a staff, and the social component, personality wise.

[00:35:25] Sam Rhee: This is really difficult because there are so many clicks and social.

Subtleties involved. And when you see people going out with other people and you're like, wait, am I part of that group? Am I not supposed to be part of that group? Right. Yep. And these coaches have, their, some of them have their own friends that are oftentimes within the gym and you're like, wait, am I not part of that group?

Right. And you see all of this. And with social media, you're constantly seeing all of this. Yeah. Because most of the people in gym are, are friends with each other. So you're seeing friends of friends posts and so forth. Yep. So I worry in the sense that you have said a coach can destroy a gym. Yep. And we have seen that in other gyms where a coach's actions and behavior, not in the gym, but outside the gym, has destroyed the social fabric.

Yep. The relationships and the good things that can happen because of poor social interactions. Right. Or choices. Yep. It gets difficult because it's a community as well as a job. Mm-hmm. . So how are you telling people, well, your social life should be like this, right? Because it's a job. But on the other hand, you are part of a community and so if you are alienating certain people it gets hard.

So I do feel like coaches should be mindful about. open. Like if you have the same six people that you're constantly hanging out with and you're constantly posting that on social media and you're constantly showing off that these are the only people you hang with, you don't, and you're not engaged with anyone else within the gym.

Yeah. That's, that's a little corrosive. Yep. I feel like as an owner, you do have to be aware of what your coaches are doing. Yep. You can't tell them what to do and what you're doing yourself and what you're doing yourself. Yeah. And, and if you're thinking. Like you said, you can't go to every social event.

You can't do everything that everyone invites you to. Right. But you, you do need to be mindful of being inclusive for some of these things. Yeah. Because otherwise I have seen people get really upset because they didn't feel like they were sort of Right. Part of whatever group. And

[00:37:32] David Syvertsen: then it does, it can filter its way into the gym saying like, people, certain people get treated treatment at the gym better than others.

Whether it's like something as silly as. There are partners on a Saturday or their zones, but, or just like the coaching, the attention you get at the gym, it's like, oh, it's cause she's your friend. You favor that person. I would say this, not everyone's gonna agree a CrossFits coach, part-time, full-time, whatever.

Right. A big part of your job is outside the gym because this is community. Right. I, I think some people. Use community as a kind of just like a catchy phrase, a cliche word that just gets overused, but not enough people reflect on what community actually means and community is. Built in the gym, strengthened outside of the gym, or weakened outside of the gym.

This is where it's built in the gym, but then outside is where it gets stronger or weaker. And if you're a coach and you're out socially, you have that opportunity right now to strengthen the bond of the gym, not just your friends, the whole gym, or you have an opportunity to weaken it by only being with your friends or dare I bring up gossiping about other people at the gym, right, with with members, right?

Like. We're not even gonna get into that right now. But that can, that, that is one of the things that can just slowly, like death by a million paper cuts, kill a gym, is like those little things. And I would say part of what I look for when we are looking to hire a coach or like these two backup options I have right now, it's how they are socially.

That's a part of it. It's a huge part of

[00:39:01] Sam Rhee: it. I, I think social media plays such a big part. Yeah. Because especially people will look and. . Oh, those people are hanging out now. Hmm. That's interesting, right? Because I heard this person

[00:39:10] David Syvertsen: say that about that. Right.

[00:39:12] Sam Rhee: Right. So that's the other thing. I am very antisocial media right now when it comes to when I hang out with people.

Yeah. I, and I don't, and I think you can hang out with whomever you want. Right. But for sure if you're splashing it all over social media, then you're sort of sending messages. Right. So I think as a coach, you have to be very

[00:39:30] David Syvertsen: mindful of those things. Yeah. And I'll tell you what this might mean, like. I don't want to coach because I want to just have my job and then have my social life.

If that is you, more power to you. I don't think you should be a CrossFit coach. All right. Now rule followers, but also trailblazers and independent thickers, that when Sam started talking about playing a different kind of playlist on a Wednesday morning, because it's basically me and Mike are coach, are the early morning coaches, right?

And. You know, and for the most part, I feel like Mike have, Mike and I have some similar, I try to switch it up as much as I can, but I, I know I probably have bias, right? Viking, Viking Music, row music, I'm awful. Next time I coach you, I'm playing that song. Oh, in the middle of your open prep workout. But you know, Sam is a rule follower in that if we really tell him to do something, he's going to do it.

Even if he doesn't nece, he will voice his displeasure or disagreement, but he'll do it. But in the same time, he's a trailblazer and an independent thinker, and he's a do. . Like he just will just get it done and you could tell he put thought into it. So this goes back to the culture has been manufactured, strengthened, just gets stronger and stronger as, as time passes, hopefully, ideally.

But you don't want the the coach to be a robot, right? Like I don't want, we've had this discussion with our coaches, should I program warmups? , you know, every coach has to do my warmup and I'm like, hell no. Right? It has nothing to do with the workload. It's, there are coaches in the gym that have their own personality put into their warmups.

Like Ashley will play games. Sometimes Liz will make partners. Sometimes, you know, you'll have a certain structure, like, I just like structure and like, let's get people moving. But other people like to make it a bit more like stretchy. Some people like to move, right? Whatever. I think that's an opportunity for a coach to show that they are an independent thinker.

They don't need to be told to like wipe their butt after they go to the bathroom, right? Like they, they can do things on their own, but they still are following the overall direction of the ship. Thoughts

[00:41:21] Sam Rhee: there? This is very Jocko Willink leadership type of principles. Yeah. For. Heads of organizations.

Yeah. Is you are all moving in the right direction. And if you're the head of an army of soldiers, you're not necessarily saying you have to do it this, this, and this way. Yeah. You can get to point A to point B with different ways, and if they tell you, Hey, listen, I think we could go this way. You're listening and saying, Either yes or no, but you're allowing people to help you achieve your goal and provide different perspectives and thoughts, right?

And at the end of the day, you have to make that decision whether or not that's the way you're going to do it, right? But by no means are you snuffing or, you know, stopping people from allowing them to help you get better, right? And I've heard enough of Jocko Wilin and a lot of other leadership. Thoughts where this is exactly how you're supposed to organize, lead, and grow organizations.

[00:42:17] David Syvertsen: Yeah. You don't wanna make robots outta people. You just, you just don't wanna do that. And like, I actually think if you wanna be selfish about it, I think your, your gym, your business is gonna be worse if you just have a bunch of robots doing exactly what you tell 'em. Like, imagine I did that. Imagine I said, you have to wear this when you coach.

You're not allowed to work out. You have to do your hair this way. You have to warm 'em up this way. Our gym would be worse. No question. Right, and and I think that you have to trust that their trailblazing and their independent, independent thinking is still on the ship. It's not taking away, right? Like if a coach ever said, Hey, I'm just gonna change today's wad because I don't like pistols, right?

Then it's like, okay, like you're fired. That goes to our next topic, right? . When should a coach be fired? This is tough. I've never fired anyone. You've never fired anyone? No. Can't wait. .

[00:43:02] Sam Rhee: Well, now you have all these backups, so you're ready to go. ,

[00:43:05] David Syvertsen: Sam, talk to me in my office after this. . I've always wanted to say that.

All right. Anyway, I don't have an office. When should a coach be fired? I know coaches that have been fired or, and, and then also in addition, some coaches that have had like a mutual parting of ways, right? I don't have template answers for this. I don't think one action should fire coach. I've warned someone before not to do that again or else but I'm, I'm a big on giving someone a second chance, but I'm trying to think, is there one offense.

That would be like,

[00:43:38] Sam Rhee: dude, you're out. I gotta say, there's gotta be a couple hard nos right there where it's like, this happens and you got, you gotta say that you're out based on that, right?

[00:43:46] David Syvertsen: Situationally. Yeah. I mean, I would say changing workout. On purpose. , I I, I, it's funny I say that it's been done.

I've heard it been done. And how, how is that even possible? Someone's like, just like, I don't like this workout, or, you guys are sore. I'm gonna change the whole thing. And it's like, that would be, because honestly, if you don't fire someone over that, but that's, I feel like that's too juvenile. Like, and that's just stupid.

Like, if you do that, like you're not being fired because you change the workout, you're being fired because you're stupid. You know? It's like, that's. I don't even want, man, I can't think off the top of my head. Like if you showed up to the gym like drunk one time or you know, did something like that. Right.

I think you'd get fired. Right. Like how about this, like a temper, let's say coach loses they're cool on someone. Mm-hmm. And really like rips into the person and the person leaves the gym. So the gym's now losing business and then those people's friends leave the gym.

[00:44:28] Sam Rhee: I think you have opportunities there to make up for that infraction if you're that coach right.

If you realize, Ooh, that wasn't so good. Right. You there gotta be opportunities to make up for it. To make up for it before, like if you were not sorry and you didn't do anything afterwards. Right. Yeah. You should be fired. I have one. Okay.

[00:44:46] David Syvertsen: If someone goes onto social media with the way our world is right now.

Yeah. And makes a really strong political statement. Oh, abortion, gays. Republican, Democrat, not so much, but something that really is like a trigger point for a lot of people. And because I actually know a, a CrossFit coach that was so right wing. Mm-hmm. And like was a nice guy, good coach, good athlete.

Mm-hmm. But some of the stuff he was putting on social media, I'm like, bro, like, I think whether I agree with you or not, there's gonna be people in your class that are on the complete, like, you're like literally belittling people for living a certain lifestyle and their members at your gym. Like you're gonna lose that business.

You know, then you bring up free speech, blah, blah, blah. Right?

[00:45:26] Sam Rhee: Yeah, that's complicated because if you fire someone for something that they post personally Yeah. About their political views on their own social media probably get sued. You would get sued. Yeah. I, I guarantee

[00:45:35] David Syvertsen: you would get sued. So I, yeah, you'd have to term it a certain way, man.

I hope we never have to do this . You're right. You just say like, But you know, I, I think one of the jobs of a coach is to build the community, build the culture. And if you are eating at that, you know, you just have to probably not say it a certain way or put it in writing. Just say like, Hey, we're gonna move on in a different direction.

You know, your position's been eliminated. Something like that. I mean, some of

[00:45:56] Sam Rhee: this is why you vet people so carefully beforehand and you're like, you trust him. Yeah. And you're like saying Maybe it's creepy, but that's why I'm checking these people out. Right. That's, that's exactly the reason why you're sort of checking.

everything that their actions are Yes. And that I'm allowed to. Right. And because, I mean, obviously this is what they're posting is public right. And visible to everyone. Yeah. The problem would be is if somehow they changed over time as your coach Yep. Then you're really in a sticky situation and I, I wouldn't know how

[00:46:28] David Syvertsen: to really handle that.

Yeah. I know. Those are one of those things you have to kind of. I hate saying this, like learn on the fly. Adjust on the fly, pivot. You know, we've done that so many times as gym owners that I feel like I, I'm ready for anything. I think about this all the time. Right? Like, if someone does something like what do you do?

Right?

[00:46:42] Sam Rhee: I mean, obviously a criminal offense or something like that. Right?

[00:46:45] David Syvertsen: Stealing money from the gym. Yeah. Something like that. That's easy. All hard nosed. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, . And again, I'm not thinking about anyone on this, I don't think it's an issue right now. Don't think it ever will be either.

But if someone just kind of loses their, their mojo as a coach, like dies a slow death like they used to be into it, and you could start to tell like, they're just not into it anymore. They don't care. They just want, you know, the, the, the way that we, we pay, they just want that. Or they just wanna be in charge of the room.

I think on a macro level, this wouldn't be like, Hey, you're fired for this reason, but if I feel a coach is no longer there to help people, , that would be like the beginning of the end. Like if you're just here to get paid or just here for the free membership, or you're just here to tell people what to do eventually that's gonna really come to the forefront.

We're gonna know. And that would probably be the like, Hey, I think, you know, it's time.

[00:47:31] Sam Rhee: I could see people doing that. I mean, you, you go through cycles, like you could get burnt out on Absolutely. Fitness, CrossFit. Yeah. Teaching coaching. Ooh, I got, I have a

[00:47:39] David Syvertsen: juicy one. Oh yeah. If someone joins another, Oh yeah.

That's a hard no too. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you just like, Hey man, like I'm paying a member at CrossFit, you know, down the street. But I still wanna coach here. I would say no. You've

[00:47:51] Sam Rhee: had coaches that have coached at multiple gyms. Yes. And you're okay with that because

[00:47:56] David Syvertsen: they talk to you about it? They talk to me about it, and they're not that close.

Like, I would never lose a member to that gym if I did, let's, let's bring up an example. CrossFit Waldo down the road. Yeah. If someone wanted to, if someone. Want the coach here and there. I would say no. You're gonna have to pick, oh, I'm gonna have to talk to you, . I'm just kidding. That's why, why you come to my office,

[00:48:13] Sam Rhee: Is that why I'm

[00:48:14] David Syvertsen: getting fired? And you know, not everyone will agree with that, and it's okay if you don't agree with that. More than willing to hear input. Listen to what you have to think about that. But I'm I'm protective of, of that kind of stuff, and I, I wouldn't be cool with it. I would say you have to pick one of the two and we have a mile radius.

I think we put that in non-competes that it's a certain mile miles that you can't coach at unless you get our permission. All right. I think, I think that's gonna wrap it up, guys. That was a really, that was a fun talk. And I hope that even if you're not into coaching, I think, again, I always say this, when we get into certain topics that might not always apply to.

I think it's important for you to still listen and it'll give you a broader perspective and improve your experience, and I'm sure it'll answer some of your questions on why's, who's when's that maybe you've always wanted to know, and hopefully that provided some clarity. All right, thanks guys.