S03E99 GYM CULTURE AND GYM GOSSIP

Gossip is universal, and the gym environment is no exception. Dave and Sam talk about gym culture, what gossip actually is and how it can impact people and their community at a gym. They discuss not only others, but themselves and examples @crossfitbison, and what we can do to be our best when it comes to identifying gossip and how to address it.

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S03E99 GYM CULTURE AND GYM GOSSIP

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: All right, welcome back to the Her Fit podcast. I am coach David Syvertsen. I'm here with my co-host, Dr. And coach Sam Rhee, and we have a special Thursday morning edition well recording on Thursday. This is still gonna come out on a Monday, uh, but we can currently hear Sam just got done coaching the five and 6:00 AM.

Um, that's his weekly fill on Thursday, so if you wanna see him, coach, get there, um, if there's any spots available, such a popular coach, you know, the class always fill up when he is on there.

[00:00:25] Sam Rhee: Every five and 6:00 AM class is really popular. Thanks.

[00:00:28] David Syvertsen: Um, and I can hear the SE 7:00 AM right now. It's one of my favorite sounds like when you're like two, three rooms away, like just barbells is hitting the ground and God bless our, our work neighbors that have to hear this all day throughout the week.

Um, so today's topic, little, little different, um, than fitness and health and exercise, although I think it's all encompassing. And I, I've been trying to find up, find different terminology for this because the word gossip, uh, makes my bones hurt. I'd rather stare at a wall than talk about gossip for 40 minutes and keep repeating that word.

I, for, I don't know why I hate the word so much. It just makes me think about like high school and like, you know, American pie type, high school movies, like those, those kind of things where, you know, they're reality. They were fun watching growing up, but it was not real life. And um, a lot of the issues that you see in movies like that do shape, um, a lot of how kids act in high school.

And I feel like here we are 20 years later and we're gonna actually talk about gossip and an impact it can have on a culture. And if you want to keep the CrossFit out of this, you can. I mean, this is a very much a CrossFit podcast. But gossip and the problems that it come from, gossip, uh, they infiltrate every group of people out there.

And it's, it, it could be your work environment, it could be your family, it could be your social circle, um, and a lot of that here at bison, all of those are included in one, if you think about it. And so, really, I've been trying to think of a way to kind of go into this from a few different perspectives.

Uh, not just from the gym owner coach, um, not just from a person that's a part of the community, um, not just someone that's either been on the negative side of the gossip or even I will even admit on the offensive side of, of gossip. Um, but I want to talk about why it happens, where it happens, what to avoid, um, and even in some cases defending the, the, the gossip turn.

And, and really we're gonna have to define a little bit later on, but I really want to view this, I want to challenge you if you're listening to this right now, Um, that if you're gonna actually listen to the entire episode, I, my challenge to you is remove all confirmation bias that you have from your brain as much as you can.

All right? I don't know if that's actually possible for everyone to do, but I want you to take away your thoughts of other people being a problem. And I know that again, if you talk to someone, vent about their problems, they're gonna bring up other people in other situations and blame others. 95% of the time.

I want you to view, kind of take an outside perspective of yourself on this topic and maybe help self-diagnose whether there are things you can do better to enhance the community that you're in, whether it's this community or one that's across the world, okay? And or a community that you're gonna be in someday or be in charge of someday, right?

And, Look at it from the perspective of what can you change or what can you avoid or what can you do better? And again, I want to challenge you for that, the entire episode, to think about it from that lens. Not, ugh, so-and-so does this poorly. So-and-so does this poorly. Like you can think about that at another time.

Today I want you to think about yourself, Sam, opening thoughts on us. You know, I brought this topic up by the way, and this topic has come up with other people and I would say we're on episode 99, by the way, which is nuts. And almost every episode has come from a good place in that we want to make things better.

Whether it's our lives, your lives, the gym's life. Right? Absolutely. Um, are there things that we like to talk about? Sure. Are there things we don't like to talk about? Absolutely. But we still talk about them. And why do you think this topic is important for us to talk about?

[00:04:04] Sam Rhee: Uh, it's universal. Mm-hmm. It certainly, uh, is something that you can see in every.

Aspect of human interaction. It's very basic to humans, but in a gym perspective, especially when you're trying to build a community mm-hmm. Um, it can severely impact how people interact with each other. And I feel like one of the biggest issues that a Jim can have are negative social interactions, which gossip is certainly a huge part of it.

[00:04:36] David Syvertsen: Absolutely. Yeah. Good way of putting that. So let's really get into kinda how we're gonna dive into this initially. All right. Let's talk about some of the basics here. How does a community grow? How does a business escalate? How do lives change year after year? Okay. We're in year 10 at bison, and I can think back to the early days.

I reflect on them all the time. You know, some day, sometimes you miss those days, sometimes you don't. Right. And how does it go from Aaron and Megan showing up for the first 5:00 AM class to, you can't sign up for 6:00 AM because it fills up in 19 seconds. Right? And there's a lot of answers to it. Okay.

And it's no different than getting in better shape, you know, getting in better shape and heading goals. It's about lifestyle, it's nutrition, it's exercise, it's sleep, it's hydration. It's never one thing. And how do, again, how does bison grow? How does a community of people out there grow? How do lives change?

It's never a reason. It's never a person. There's several factors that go into it. Um, the business will grow via the quality of the product, the management, the sense of direction, the cu, the culture, the budgeting, all the numbers, right? The community grows through people, meeting people, bonds being created, relationships that strengthen, and then outside the gym interactions.

That's how community grows. That's how we go from strangers. I mean, I love thinking about this, that, you know, we can use bison example. You're crossing out there. You can use this as an example. Look around sometimes and say, if the place did not exist, who in that gym would you know? Right? Your next social function with bison.

If the gym did not exist, if the business did not exist, if it did not grow over the course of 10 years, who there would you know? You know this, this what? It's funny that CrossFit grow goes from strangers to, Hey, I'm in your wedding. In some cases we marry each other, right? You met through CrossFit. Um, it, it's an amazing, it's a, it's a, to quote Sivan, it's a small business miracle, and I don't wanna go down that path of why it's a miracle and why, what makes this so different than other businesses?

I wanna keep it on track of why do things grow? You're opening thoughts, Sam? Uh, just like some feedback on what I said, like the, the community grew, the business has escalated, A lot of lives have changed for the better You. Th that, that is really the foundation of everything that we're doing here. And what are your opening thoughts on that top, like that, that opening piece right there?

[00:06:51] Sam Rhee: I think that is the foundation of CrossFit itself. I think when we had co CrossFit HQ here for the open, we talked to them a lot. And if you look at what their push their direction is, it is about community. Mm-hmm. They emphasize how different CrossFit is than some other fitness programs or other, uh, gyms because we are growing and becoming more fit together.

Mm-hmm. And, and that's a central tenant of CrossFit, is that if it wasn't for community, for supporting each other, for helping each other, that CrossFit wouldn't exist. Mm-hmm. And I think that's what we try to embody at our gym as well.

[00:07:31] David Syvertsen: Yeah. And I think all those things that you just said were the strongest.

That comes to fruition. Like the best example is actually the pandemic. And I remember closing the doors in March of 2, 20 20 saying, we're gonna come back stronger, deep down, not knowing if we're gonna come back stronger. Right. Um, that was my belief. That was my goal. Right. And we've been asked a few times in recent years just with what's been going on with the announcement and stuff like where, what was there, was there a turning point?

When did you guys really explode? And my initial answers were always, all right, when did we really get to a hundred members? When did you get to 150 members? But that's from a business perspective. I really think the community was strengthened during and after the pandemic because you start to realize how much you do rely on the group of people, how much the community does affect your life.

I can remember when we did the parking lot wads and we were gone for what, two months from each other at that point doing stupid zoom workouts. Right. That people started crying when they walked to the parking lot and saw each other. You know, it was as if like, it was a lifelong reunion that you haven't seen your, you know, your brother in 30 years, right?

Um, and that's when I started to really comprehend like how impactful the place was. It actually became, in my eyes, a bigger responsibility at that point that, you know, you need to keep things going. Um, now the perks of a community getting stronger, like what we're talking about and growing, right, some of them are obvious.

Um, you know, the more volume of quality people in our lives, right? Again, I, I think some of the best people I've ever met in my life are through CrossFit, and that's a huge benefit. That's a selfish benefit of mine. Um, The, the more people you get in there, the more impact you can have. Right? And that means you hire different coaches, more coaches, and then different people relate to different coaches.

And now you're impacting another whole group of people. And now it goes from, you know, 10 people being impacted to hundreds. Right. Um, and it also, I think it can broaden our perspectives, right? My perspective on things has changed from my relationship. Right. My relationship with some of my, my good friends here, they have, and that's what relationships do in general, right?

They give you a different perspective on things, right? Um, and then this has also opened the doors for socially social reasons, for careers, for opportunities. The amount of people in this gym that have been, have had their careers and businesses impacted in a positive way because the gym existed. That is another perk.

And yeah, business wise, more people equals more business, right? We're everyone's, you know, making more money or you're providing more money for different people, and that's something that you continue to grow and escalate and, and try to create opportunities for other people as well. But in, in all honesty, all those are positives, right?

There's negatives that come from a, a community that grows. Uh, and this is society in general. This is not just a CrossFit or bison or your gym out there. There are negatives, or I should say potential negatives that come when you bring more people together. Right. And the discussion. So before I get into some of those negatives, what, what do you think about the arts of not science, of blending the positives and negatives that come and go with a growing community?

[00:10:36] Sam Rhee: I think it has to be organic, obviously. And, and I think the best communities that I've seen that have been most cohesive and have grown well have not been forced. Mm-hmm. It's been an organic growth and I, and I know that bison has grown that way because of the values and, and the direction that you've espoused.

Like there's certain things like core values that you've, you and the rest of the owners and the community and, and coaches have really pushed. And I could, you know, name like three or four different ones, but I think, you know, the community is not for everyone. Correct. And. But I think if you do believe in those core values, um, you have become a part of bison.

Mm-hmm. Um, whether those core values are good or bad, um, that's really how an a community grows. Right. And I think that's, that's sort of how every community should grow. Mm-hmm. Um, and in, in large part, it's because of leadership. You know, if you, if you don't feel like, for example, if you, if you believe one of your core program, uh, values is that you should program heavy.

[00:11:52] David Syvertsen: Right?

[00:11:53] Sam Rhee: Like a lot of lifting mm-hmm. You're gonna join here and you're gonna see the community and be like, wait, they're not squatting every day. They're not, um, using a barbell every day. Dude, I'm, I think that's actually happened a few times. Like, you guys don't lift enough. I don't wanna be here. I don't

wanna be here.

Yeah. Like, and, and that's just a, a more of a superficial example, but that's just another example of. You know, finding a community where it works for you.

[00:12:16] David Syvertsen: Yep. And now, so, so some of the negatives that come from a grown community, like I said, they're inevitable. Right. Um, clicks. Right. And the fact that lives change over time, you know, and I think some of this only re really can relate to gyms that have been around for, in my opinion, I'm, if I had to pick a number outta the thin air, I'd say over five years, you know, we're, we're approaching 10 right now.

And I look at the amount of lives that have changed. You could use the open parties as an example, back in like 2000 15, 16, 17, you had a certain group of people, um, You know, Ash and I were one of them. We slept at the gym one night and coached the next morning. Um, I think Chris locked himself at the gym one year.

But you look at some of the videos and pictures back then where we didn't have kids, we didn't have as many responsibilities. You just partied till two, three in the morning. Right. And that was, those lives, those people that were doing that back then are no longer doing it. Some of them don't even come here anymore.

Some of them are, come here, don't go to the open party anymore. And that's just like, Hey, your life has changed. Your priorities have changed. Um, but that's probably the biggest thing that you'll see in a, in a culture that's been around for a long time, is life. Changes everyone at some point. And, um, cliques start to form, you start to relate to a certain group of people within that community more than others.

And to me, the cliques can sometimes get a bad rap. Like, I think cliques are just another way of saying like, Hey, I have a group of friends. And you never want to discourage that. Um, you never want to be at a point where, no, you have to be friends with everyone. Like, I don't, I'm not friends with everyone here and I own the gym.

I, I don't want to, um, you know, and I know it, it's not necessarily always a personal choice, it's just more of like what your lifestyle where you, you know, Decisions that you make, the things that you're pursuing, the time that you have. Um, but those things change and I think that's where you can start to see a shift in a culture overall is the second you have 10 different lives change and they go in different directions.

Who you used to be close with, you no longer are. Can you recall, without giving specific examples, some I would say relationships that either you have or, you know, others have had that, hey, it's just changed and no one did anything wrong. We're not going down that path. But it's just a different feel with certain people because of life changes.

[00:14:30] Sam Rhee: Absolutely. Yeah. Um, I can think of a fair number of OGs where things have changed. Mm-hmm. Either better or worse. I don't know. It, it, I don't want to define it as that. Right. It's just changed. Yes, exactly. Um, the community itself I think has changed just because we have. Different people. Right? I mean, when you first started, a lot of them were people who you knew Right.

Uh, or knew through others. Right. And now we have a lot of people who no one knows, right? They just know, oh, there's a big gym here, CrossFit bison, that's in Bergen County. I'm gonna check it out. Okay. So, so the way the, the source of our community has changed a lot too. Mm-hmm. And so there can inevitably be conflict when you have different groups, different people.

Um, it can be great, but you can also see what, where there could be potential issues when you have that many people. Mm-hmm. Who are. Very different in some

[00:15:33] David Syvertsen: ways, right? Yeah. So like, I mean basically that just like kind of the word that came up to my, in my head there was like loyalty, right? Like there really isn't as much loyalty to someone that you just met a year ago, right?

As opposed to nine and kind of grew together. Like I always view bison growing and all the benefits that have come from it as we all grew together, right? And I truly do mean that yes, some have benefited more than others, but we all kind of grew this place together. That's why the open announcement being such a big deal for, especially for the OGs that have been here from the beginning, I love the fact that a lot of those members felt like, wow, like we did it.

It wasn't like just you, we did it. And that was like a really cool thing. But someone that joined here a year ago, two years ago, two months ago, there is no reason for that sense of loyalty. And there might be a quicker trigger on things. There might be a quicker. Path to negativity or something that could be toxic at some point.

Um, and you know, this is where groupthink comes into play. And this is a problem in our world today, right? Is like you, you almost need people in your corner to believe a certain way. And if you don't, you feel lonely on the side. And I think a lot of people lack that critical independent thinking where they come up with their own opinion.

It's like, Hey, if my group of people think this way, I'm going to think, uh, um, of a certain topic this way. And how does that relate to a gym is if you have several different groups, because the gym is so big, you can easily create, you can call them cliques, you can call it group think, whatever you want of people that at some point start to disagree with each.

And you know what happens when people disagree with each other in a competitive environment too. I mean, this is a competitive place whether we want, whether people like that or not, right? It's just naturally competitive, right? I mean, I can watch from a coaching perspective, you know, there's certain people looking at other people during the workout, and again, this is probably a little bits more serious than I beat you in a workout.

Like at the end of the day, it just doesn't matter. We talk about that all the time. But it does, the ethos of the place is, you know, almost all positive. Okay? But it is comp, it's a competitive place. And you could even see it with things outside of working out. It could be comparing lifestyles to each other.

It can be, you know, all those kinds of things, you know, um, family situations, right? Um, you know, parents with their kids. Like that's always a hard thing to, to, to manage. Um, Just like I said, more people equals more business on a positive side. More people, more people also equals more problems. You know, I've used this example when we talked about the gym growing, that if 10% of your gym is a problem, right?

You have 30 members, it's only three people, you're good, right? You have 300, now you have 30 people causing problems, right? It, the, the spectrum is just wider. The good and bad is, is wider. And this is where we're gonna kind of get into, um, You know how someone can help or hurt a culture. You know, we get asked all the time, Sam, like what can we do to help?

What can I do to help? And it, you know, it almost always comes from a good place. And I always say one of my best, biggest answers is, Hey, we can't hire 37 coaches. Hey, um, we can't have everyone throwing a party every other weekend. Um, we don't need you just to bias equipment or donate anything. I, my answer is always, I use Aaron as an example cuz he's my brother, but he's also I think has embodied this more than anyone in our gym over the past 10 years, is just be a good person here.

Just be overly nice to people. Be unselfish. Like that's how you help the culture. You know, like go out of your way to do things for other people. That's one of our biggest ethos, you know, things here, our biggest culture foundations is that you do things for other people. You put others before yourself.

Um, and you know, tho those are the positives. That's how, hey, how can I help? But I really wanna get into what can you do to hurt a culture? Because I think sometimes our actions don't. They, they lack awareness on what you're actually doing to the bigger picture. And what are some of your initial answers?

If someone says, what can someone really do to hurt a culture or hurt a community of people?

[00:19:31] Sam Rhee: Uh, they could do what everyone does, which is, you know, um, which is basically one of the things we're gonna talk about is gossip. Yeah. I mean, I think about it and when we talk about hurting the culture mm-hmm.

Nobody is perfect. I have for sure, probably we know that multiple times not helped the fabric of our gym. Mm-hmm. Uh, with interactions that I've had with people. Mm-hmm. Um, either superficial or deep. Um, it's inevitable. So I think the, the key to to figuring this out is knowing, one, we all are imperfect when we, we talk about this.

Correct. And two, um, like you said, Take a self deep dive and figure out what it is that we can do. Yep. To try to identify it. We're never gonna stop ourselves from doing these things. Right. But maybe we can figure out, like when we do say, oh, you know what I realize? Mm-hmm. This is something that is probably not awesome to do.

I, uh, I need to take a step back from it.

[00:20:38] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Like, reminder, guys, what we said, the challenge you got at the start of the episode was like, let's get away from who are sa, Dave and Sam talking about? We get that question all the time. Um, think about yourself. That that's who we're talking about. I'm talking about you.

So if you're listening right now, I'm talking about you and I'm also talking about myself, and I'm talking about Sam. Sam's talking about me. Right. So that, that's who we're talking about. And just keep, keep this in the front of your head as we go deeper into this. Think about your own personal situation in relations to whatever community you're a part of.

And are you helping or hurting? Um, my, my three things that hurt a culture that could be the end of a business, uh, ac uh, across a business, um, you know, if we're gonna stick this with a CrossFit, the, the membership is the business, right? It's not, um, there aren't many other assets other than the floor in the, in the equipment, which is not that ex that, uh, expensive or valuable I should say.

So, you know, if, if, if a business is ever gonna get ruined, right? Whenever I see gyms shut down, obviously there's a lot of reasons behind it. Everyone has their own story. Um, but some that I've talked to over the years, I talked to a lot of gyms that were not doing well years ago, pre pandemic, and they always said that there was, there were toxic people in the culture that ended up ruining it.

And I'm still having conversations right now with gyms that are struggling, not necessarily as a consultant, just comparing notes, right? As gym owners. And that is when someone's really struggling, that's always. A part of the answer. And you know, it's, it's such a sensitive business and this is a sensitive topic and I'll be honest with you to repeat myself, I don't like talking about it, but I also know that it's probably, I mean, if I go look at the gym right now, it's probably the most serious thing in the gym that could really could end it quickly or kill the ethos of it.

And I don't want that to happen. So what is gossip defined? All right. I mean, I, I thought about it, I actually Googled it and then I thought about it more. Cause I really wanted to kind of come up with my own way of saying what it truly is. And to me it's, you know, casual conversations in nature about other people that usually not fully confirmed factually.

So discussions that are casual in nature about other people, usually not fully confirmed factually. And that is where it starts. So if you want to know, am I truly gossiping about something? Am I, and then we're talking about this from a gym culture perspective, you are hurting the environment that you have benefited greatly from, right?

We, that's how we opened up the episode. Like a growing community that has helped you personally a lot. Okay, are you hurting it now? Are you now taking and not giving back to it by gossiping? So that's really, if you, if you really want to know, am I a part of this problem? Do you have discussions that are casual nature about other pe people that are usually not confirmed factually?

And if that answers yes, then hey, you, you are now in that mix. And I would imagine that everyone listening, you can nod your head yes to that question. So, and again, we're focusing on ourselves right now, and I'm doing the same thing as I talk about this as. So where and when and why does this show up in a community of people, the gossip, talking about other people without the facts.

Why, why does this happen? And to me, it's hu, it's humanity. It's not a CrossFit thing. Um, I, I always view CrossFit as this com. It's a microcosm of com. The, the social culture that we're out there. I think it's better than a lot of what we see out there. I think it's one of the best things in the world right now when you talk about peop uh, getting strangers together and coming together with, with a mutual interest.

But this is a problem in our world, and I think it's gotten worse over the past 10, 20 years with the escalation of, of social media and all that. And I know, Sam, you have kids in high school. Um, I'm sure you have more credibility on that subject than me, but that's, that's a huge problem with, with kids.

And I know that that carry over to adults and parents as well. So what, what is your. You know, why does gossip come up? Why, where, where, what are some of the reasons why you think it comes up in, in a community? It comes up because

[00:24:35] Sam Rhee: we're human beings. Yeah. And we're in a community, and it's a way of, and this is what Evol, like evolutionary psychologists have talked about, is it's a way of reinforcing certain beliefs or norms in a society.

So, for example, if I talk to you, Dave mm-hmm. I was like, can you believe that this guy at home eats nothing but peanut butter all day? Like I heard he just eats nothing, but he doesn't eat anything else. And then you'd be like, oh, that's awful. Yeah. Well that's, because now we're sort of reinforcing that doing nothing but eating peanut butter all day is bad.

Right. So we're like sort of establishing this community, your view Yeah. Between ourselves. Like, okay, doing this is not good. Yeah. But it, and it could be obviously like, Something very, you know, I'm picking something stupid, but it could be anything. Right. Right. So we're talking to each other and we're, we're talking about other people and trying to reinforce with ourselves certain beliefs or standards that are supposed to be good.

Right. And maybe I'm testing you because I'm like, I'm not sure that's true, if it's good or bad, but I'm like, Hey, you know, I heard so-and-so does this. Yeah. And if you say so, then I'll be like, oh, maybe that's okay. Yeah. Like, Dave thinks it's okay, so maybe it's okay. But if you like, Ugh, that's awful. Yeah.

They're like, oh, that's, that's, now we jive.

[00:25:51] David Syvertsen: No. Yeah. So, okay. So that's really bad. You're in my circle now. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:54] Sam Rhee: So people test each other all the time by saying stuff like this about other people seeking

[00:25:58] David Syvertsen: validation of their beliefs. Exactly. Yeah. And

[00:26:00] Sam Rhee: creating, uh, connections. Yes. And that's, that's how gossip works.

And, and most of, and you can have positive and negative gossip. Right, for sure. So you could be like, oh my God, did you see that guy? He just, that was so awesome what he did. Yeah. Right. And you're reinforcing. Positives or like, I heard that he, you know, did this. Mm-hmm. You know, and that's accomplished this.

Yeah. Right. And, and you know, I heard that he did this right. And that would be positive and that that can be great. Absolutely. Yeah. But the issues can often arise when we are talking about someone that we haven't, we don't really know or don't nearly know the facts and, and we're, we're throwing out negative, negative things.

Yeah. Correct. And so that's where, um, so it's gonna happen. Gossip will happen just because we have this innate need to sort of create connections and, and talk about others. But it's when we have to think about, wait, what is it that we're talking about? Mm-hmm. How are we talking about it? And, you know, how is this potentially going to affect

[00:26:58] David Syvertsen: others?

Right. And I also think in the same paragraph, the gossip also comes from negative thoughts about self. Yes. Where you have negative thoughts about who you are, what you're doing, what you're, you know, what you're trying to accomplish in life. And. You know, we fail a lot. We're, we're human beings. We, we make mistakes a lot.

We fail. Like I can give you hundreds of goals that I've never hit in my life that I would love to, right? And you do that over the course of a lifetime. If you don't have a lot of like emotional intelligence behind this, you can really start to beat yourself up. I'm a failure. Like if you, like, I'm big on, if you don't fail, you're not doing, you're not working hard enough like that.

So, I know a failure is a huge part of, of success or eventual success, but if you are so short-term focused, you know, did I have a good day? Did I have a good workout? What do I weigh this morning? What, you know, what am I doing this weekend? You know, if that's your constant, you know, dopamine spike or you're just trying to make yourself happier in the moment, you eventually are gonna hit these like, wow, failure, failure, failure.

I feel bad about myself. I'm gonna start blaming things or other people for the reason why. I am not hitting that goal, or I want to make myself feel better by putting someone else down. That's a huge, that's a, that's to me, when we talk about negative gossip. Right. Um, that's a huge reason why it's funny, I grew up, um, in the church and the, it's amazing to me.

My father actually did a sermon series on the similarities between CrossFit and Christianity. Yes. And it was, it was awesome. And it's like, obviously I'm biased, but the, I find a lot of, of what we're talking about now, what you just said, did you hear what so-and-so does outside of church? They drink, you know, like I grew up thinking like that was a hu a terrible thing.

Did you hear that person dropped an F bomb? Oh my God, what a terrible person. Like, uh, and that's. That really, that idea started in my head is, you know, and, and from the outside of a lot of churches and Christianity in general. Right. And they say this about Jim people too. Very judgmental, right? Yeah. Oh, I'm very judgey and unfortunately

[00:29:12] Sam Rhee: people tell me I'm very judgey all

[00:29:13] David Syvertsen: the time.

And that's, you know, I think everyone is to a certain point. Um, some people can control it. Some people are open to other ideas. But I bring that up because my experience with the church and my experience with CrossFit, both overly positive, both, uh, thankful for both impact my life. Probably the two biggest things I've impacted my life in general.

Right? Um, that gossip is existent in both cultures, and it usually comes from the people that are the biggest guiltiest, culprits, uh, culprits of gossip in those environments are ones that are not fully secure in themselves. And a subconscious way of dealing with that lack of confidence and insecurity is to talk about others.

And so I, I think tho that's, in my opinion, that's where 95% and I, the vast majority of gossip comes from. It's either one of the two things we just said. It's, you know, trying to, you know, add credibility to what you currently believe or, Hey, I don't feel good about what I'm doing, I'm gonna talk about that person.

And we vent a lot. Right? I mean, I've been told recently, I've had some deep conversations with people recently about how I keep too much things in. Right. I don't put 'em out there that much, and I don't wanna go down that rabbit hole or even make it about my personal situation. But part of why I don't vent that much to other people other than my wife, right?

Um, God bless her for having to listen to some of the stuff that that goes through my mind, um, is I don't want to go down the path of talking about people. And I'm big on, you know, the book that's changed my life, the most extreme ownership by Jocko is like, fix your own shit, right? Like, stop thinking that you always need to fix other people.

And until you're perfect and guess what, you'll never be perfect. So that task, that priority list should never change. Fix yourself first. Any thoughts, any feedback on some of those things? Like really the base reasons why people start down the gossip train?

[00:31:17] Sam Rhee: I think most of the people at our gym. Don't engage in a lot of gossip for sure.

I

[00:31:24] David Syvertsen: mean, we all do to a certain degree. Yep. If you use that definition that we used before. I mean, and

[00:31:29] Sam Rhee: negative gossip rather. Right. Um, there are a few people who really, really relish talking about other people a lot. Mm-hmm. And usually in a negative way. Mm-hmm. And, and I feel like I agree. They, I, they're not people that I don't hate.

Mm-hmm. But they're certainly people who I do understand or try to understand why they do that. Some of it is, um, some of it I don't understand, but some of it is insecurity for sure. For sure. There's a big, there's a big part of

[00:32:02] David Syvertsen: that. Right. But we all have people in our life that we know have a gossip issue.

And you could probably point to a few things going on in the life that's like, all right. That's why,

[00:32:11] Sam Rhee: I mean, the, the insecurity we all have, it just manifests as. Really taking an interest in the negative issues that people have and they take great delight in telling others about it. Right. I think that's the one thing that I have seen that I really try to stay away from those people.

Mm-hmm. And I try to not do is like enj, like if I feel like I'm enjoying saying something and it's not good. Mm-hmm. Ooh, that's a red flag. Right? Like, why am I, why am I enjoying that? Mm-hmm. Like if I say, say something about someone, like, I know maybe I really don't like that person. Right. But now I gotta look at myself and be like, wait a second, why do I not like that

[00:32:51] David Syvertsen: person so much?

Yeah. Check yourself. Yeah. Right. Um, and you know, it's if, why are we talking about this? Like the societal impact, the impact that it can have on the culture if you have a room full of people doing this and then you also have a room full of people listening and then putting their own spin on it. Right.

Like one, one of my earliest, and this is a danger of gossip, right. One of my earliest childhood memories. I could, it's like a vivid memory. I think I was in kindergarten or preschools, one of those two. We played the game of telephone and I, I gotta imagine there was like 14 kids in class and I, I don't know how or why this sticks in my head and you know, you tell the person on the end of the line, like a 20 word story or occurrence, and by the time it gets to person five, it's different person 10 very different.

And then it gets to the front of the line. And nothing that was said at the start was real. But we all, we put a context, and again, you're dealing with preschoolers, but in some cases that's one of the dangers of a, of a gossip thing here is you might feel justified in saying what you're saying about someone o other people.

And I will get into some justifications o of it. But the problem is when you start getting other people involved with your opinions of a situation that you already put a spin on, what would prevent someone else from doing the same exact thing that you just did? Putting their own spin, taking things out of context.

And this is where, you know, I've dealt with a lot of interpersonal problems, um, at the gym over 10 years. If you've owned a gym and been very involved in the community for 10 years, you are going to deal with this, right. Unless you are in heaven and you just never deal with, you know, issues with, with society.

And Well, athletes share

[00:34:36] Sam Rhee: a lot of stuff with Yes coaches. And particularly with you, you're the one who is one of the primaries here, so, right. They're gonna, they're, you're, you're the first to know for a lot of things. Sometimes

[00:34:46] David Syvertsen: personally and almost always when a problem comes to me, unless it's like, okay, that is really, truly serious.

Um, I don't do any, I don't react right away because you almost, this is like my classic, you need to ask questions before you accuse, and sometimes to really get to the bottom of something you have to ask. Both sides of the argument, right? The truth is always in the middle between those two. And, you know, the, the game of telephone is dangerous, right?

Like I, if you are involved in conversations without other people often, and depending on, especially there are some, like you said, more guilty culprits than others that really, truly have almost like an agenda of trying to put their spin on something. So that why, so that they can either put themself up on a pedestal or get you to think that they're a victim.

Yep. And again, where does this circle back to yourself? You know, the, the, the nucleus of this problem is, is the person that's doing the talking. And that is really like one of the biggest things I think we all need to. In regard to the culture, right. Are Sam and I doing this podcast to tell you how to live?

No, and I'll be honest with you, if you actually think that and gossip about that, I'll actually be pretty pissed off at you because you're, you, um, you're, you're, you're missing the context of this conversation, this con, if you really need a context of why we're talking about this, it's for the betterment of the culture and the community because we have proven over years, over a decade now that this is going to, this is, has, is, and is going to change lives for the better.

But it will get ruined if this becomes an issue or the issue compounds year after year. And I think everyone needs to reflect a little bit on some of the conversations that you're having with people that have lives, that have changed about people that maybe you used to be close to. You're no longer used to, no fault of anyone's.

And this is where this is starting to, like, as I'm talking about this more, it's really starting to like almost come full circle. Like we're not, I guess we're, we are almost done. Um, but I, I think that when you start to think, reflect on where, when, and why gossip is showing up. We just went over all that stuff and now you can start to think like, all right, I could see what, where issues are, can come up in a community like this.

And am I involved in.

[00:37:05] Sam Rhee: Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Because I've been, I had been thinking about this for a while. Yep. And not everybody would say, well, you know what? I don't talk about people's personal lives at the gym, but I do hear a fair amount of this type of interaction. And let me ask you, cuz maybe it's a gossip adjacent, maybe it's not.

I don't know. I wanted to ask you about this. Right. So, you know, we said gossip is about stuff that's not necessarily confirmed or it's rumor. Right. Let's suppose, and I thought about this because when I was doing the quarter finals, Susan. Um, so I did bench, right? I did 25 bench press in one of the workouts.

Quarter finals. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:39] David Syvertsen: And, uh, three are quarter finals again,

[00:37:41] Sam Rhee: right? Sorry. And I'm not flexing about that. Sorry. That was a mistake to say that. But basically Susan came up to me afterwards. She's like, your bench was so sweaty and disgusting. I had to clean it for you. She's my wife. And I said, okay, thank you.

But let's suppose every time I came to the gym and someone was there, they were like, damn man, Sam is so sweaty. And he just leaves his sweat all over the place. It's disgusting. And I can't stand him, and I don't like Sam because of that.

[00:38:08] David Syvertsen: And so, We've had situations like that over the years. No, this happens

[00:38:12] Sam Rhee: all the time.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. People don't like someone because of a million different reasons. Actions, yeah. Like, and coaches the same way, like for sure. You know, this person always does this. They're always dropping the barbell. Yeah. The empty barbell. They talk during my warmup.

[00:38:24] David Syvertsen: Yeah. They're always doing that.

[00:38:25] Sam Rhee: Like, there's all, like, listen, we get on each other's nerves all the time for all sorts of stuff.

Yeah. And I know that's like a, it's like a family. It's a, yeah. Same thing with athletes too. Uh, coaches too. Like I know, listen, I complain about the coaches too, and the coaches complain about the athletes. It's just the two-way street, right? So all sorts of complaints all the way around. Yep. And so now if someone's wanted to talk to me mm-hmm.

But didn't because you know, it's like, it's a negative interaction to be like, Hey Sam, you sweat too much and why don't you clean up your, you know, stupid sweat. And then, and don't worry, there's no athletes that I really feel like do that, so don't worry about this. Right, right, right. But, um, but then they're like, to you, Dave, Dave.

What is it with Sam, man? Yeah. Right. Like he's just sweating all the time. Mm-hmm. And it's disgusting. Mm-hmm. Like, what's going on? Right. And then they talk to their friends and they're like, oh my God. Every time in 6:00 AM class Sam's just sweating all the time. You know? And they're just like, just like blasting Sam, like me.

Yeah. Everywhere. But they're not talking to me

[00:39:25] David Syvertsen: right now. Is that gossip? So, I mean, that's a great de that's, I don't have the answer and I'll give my opinion on it. Um, in my opinion, it's not because that's a factual thing. Like you left your sweat on the bench and we, we don't want you to do that here.

Right? Um, but what if it's minor? What if it's just

[00:39:38] Sam Rhee: like,

[00:39:38] David Syvertsen: here's a better example. All right. Years ago, if you remember back, I think it's like 2016. Yeah. We had an issue with someone, or some people not wearing deodorant at the gym, and it like, literally made the gym smell terrible. Okay. And you didn't know quite who it was, but you thought you did okay.

And then you're like, do they wear deodorant? Do they not? Do they even shower? Those are the conversations that spiral. It, it, it starts as, Hey, it smells bad in here. Like, it's actually like I could taste this in my mouth and trust me, I was coaching back then, like it was gross. Uh, but it became something that came up at conversations nine weeks later at a party.

And that's a similar, I mean, hey, if you do something bad at the gym, like leave your sweaty ass bench untouched and you don't clean it up or you leave your gum on the ground. Right? Like I'm still looking for the person that does that at the gym, by the way. Right. Um, those are, to me, those are factual things.

Now, if that's all someone says is Sam left his bench dirty, this guy is not, this guy is not wearing deodorant, that kind of stuff. That to me is just like a, hey, a complaint and complaints are warranted in some points, but if it turns into other conversations, I was about to say what, yes. If it turns into Sam doesn't shout and I bet you know his, I bet his house is dirty.

I bet, I bet his wife doesn't even like him because he's such a mess. What? Like, that's the kind of stuff like, you know, I'm laughing cuz we're making this up, but cuz we know Susan loves Sam, but the, you know, Those. I think that happens more often than people think. And it's a subconscious thing where like you have this underlying hatred for Sam because he left his bench sweaty and maybe they just don't like me, period.

Right. So because they don't like you, these conversations go from your sweaty, factual, sweaty bench to, he probably cheats on his scores too. I bet. I bet he's, and then like, and then it escalates into, you get drunk at a party on a Saturday night and you're like, like Sam, like don't even likes Sam. Like he, he's such, such a loser.

That's when that kind of stuff can really escalate into something rather than you be a mature adult and like, Hey Sam, like, do you mind just wiping off your bench? Like, you know, it's just, you could even say it's kind of gross. Right? Or you, or you tell the coach, Hey Dave, like, I'm not getting on that bed.

I'm not sitting in someone's sweat. Right. And like, honestly, I get it. It doesn't bother me, but like I get how it would bother someone. You know, those are, and I have different kinds of gossip on here. Some of 'em are, Very juvenile, you know, bring up CrossFit scores on the board. You know, like we, we joke sometimes, but we also get serious sometimes about like, there are people in the gym that are cheating because they want a good score in accident because it makes them feel good about themselves.

Like to me, um, I'm gonna get into some of the differences that coaches and athletes have, but we know athletes talk about that too. Yeah. Is that defined as gossip? Yeah, it is. If you want a, a yes or no answer, I was about to say,

[00:42:19] Sam Rhee: and I think the key is, is that we do often not, we're not gonna get along with everyone.

Right. There are people at the gym we're not gonna like, for whatever reason. Mm-hmm. Whether it's sweaty bench or maybe they're talking all the time or not walking out your elbows Right. Or Right, not right, exactly. Cheating on their score or, right. Yeah. Like, oh my God, there are a lot of people today on the, uh,

[00:42:40] David Syvertsen: Strict press, push, press, pusher, push.

Uh,

[00:42:42] Sam Rhee: I mean, not intentionally, no. But when it got tough on those push press and push, uh, I mean the strict presses, they turned into push changes, presses. Yeah. Just whatever. Yeah. Like I'm not gonna, I,

[00:42:52] David Syvertsen: I like, I, but again, I, I do think this is an important part of the conversation, not to cut you off, but those conversations do happen.

And like, I'm, you're almost embarrassed talking about it on a podcast right now that's on the serious side, but that is part of the, of a gossip issue in a gym that can eventually escalate. Like I've gotten so far, and trust me, I used to be, I still to this day will come in and like look for certain people on the whiteboard.

And, and, you know, give myself a competitive goal. That's who I am. If you wanna judge it, judge it, you know, don't gossip about it though. But you know, that's, but there are also, because the gym is so big now and we have a competitive environment, those conversations come up. How about those scores aren't real?

And

[00:43:28] Sam Rhee: how about a non-objective stuff, like subjective stuff. Like, you know what, that person never talks to anyone. Mm-hmm. They're not even nice to anyone. All they do is like, they, all they do is like, grab all of their stuff all the time. Right. And, you know, they, they don't actually are fr they're not friendly.

Mm-hmm. Like, I hate that

[00:43:46] David Syvertsen: person. Right. Well, it's funny, I mean, I've, in my head as a owner coach, trying to get this place to be everyone's,

[00:43:53] Sam Rhee: you know, how can you tell a coach, Hey, I hate this person because Right. They're selfish and they're

[00:43:57] David Syvertsen: not nice. Right. I mean, my response to that is you don't know them outside the gym.

And my response to it, if that ever does come up and it has before, or like, Hey, what's that person's deal like? You know, I, I've been wrong about this before and I think that's why I just kind of removed myself from that. You know, that, uh, labeling of people, hey, they're good person, bad person. You don't know if you see 'em at the gym, you can see certain, uh, habits yes, that are po

[00:44:20] Sam Rhee: negative.

I don't like their habits, right? They

[00:44:22] David Syvertsen: selfish habits. All they do is go in the corner. They don't talk to anyone. But you know what? There are people in our gym that are like, I respect a lot that have done that for eight years. And I think because of my experience level in this environment, that doesn't bother me at all.

Like, if someone just wants to come here and wad, put, get sweat on their shirt, check their box, get fitter, go chase a goal and go home, I'm all about it.

[00:44:40] Sam Rhee: What should they do? Should they talk to you about this person or just be like, you know what, I, I need to just sort of let

[00:44:46] David Syvertsen: it go. That's exactly what you should do is unless it actually has a, a significant impact, like, ask yourself this.

How many times you think about saying something to someone about someone else? Right. We all have those thoughts. Of course. Right. You can't control that. Okay. No. Have you not complained to Ash

[00:45:02] Sam Rhee: about somebody? No.

[00:45:03] David Syvertsen: Nonstop. I would say lately. Every night. Right. There's always someone that's pissing you off.

Always. Always. Yeah. And, but the thing is, you know, I've made the decision a lot, almost always to make that decision that like, in my opinion, intelligent decision to not branch that out to a lot of other people that are in the community as well. Because it's gossip. That's the reason you avoid it. You have to avoid it as much as possible.

And I'm not big on avoiding problems. If someone has a sweaty bench, that's a problem. And it's a fact that it's a problem. If someone's putting their gum on the ground, you see it, that's a problem. It's a fact. You can see it, so you address it. But if someone doesn't talk to you or that you feel like they're kind of rude and quiet and, and think they're better than, or pompous, whatever, whatever.

And we hear this all the time, guys. Right? Right. So-and-so thinks they're better than others. Yeah. Like, fuck off. Don't, like, don't, don't, don't bring that up to other people. Okay. Unless you have facts. Okay. Right. Here's another reason why I do think it can be brought up, and this is where it's probably going to seem unfair to some.

Okay. Coaches, I, I can remember a conversation that I have had with a coach in the past. I don't, I don't wanna say Yeah. Who it is because it doesn't, it doesn't matter. Right. Actually have had this conversation with coaches in meetings actually, so we really have talked to all of 'em about it. We talk about people a lot.

Yeah. Are we allowed to because of what we're doing with our lives. Our Mike Mar, especially with our, all of our coaches, care so much about helping other people. Mm-hmm. How do you help other people if you never know what's going on in their life? So, I can remember situations I had, um, a situation where, um, a member got really mad at me because they heard I was talking about them with another coach.

Mm-hmm. And the reason behind helping that, uh, the reason behind the conversation of the coach, and it was nothing overly negative. It was just like, Hey, don't talk about me. Right? Mm-hmm. Was we wanted to help you get back into your routine at the gym. Mm-hmm. Hey, so example, let's say someone like loses their mojo.

Mm-hmm. They, they leave the gym for two, three weeks. You don't see 'em. They're every day at, at mm-hmm. You know, nine 30, where are they at? Mm-hmm. You start having, oh, I heard this happened to them. Mm-hmm. Oh, really? Oh, they're going through this. Oh, really? To me, that is gossip, because it's not factual and it's a casual conversation.

Mm-hmm. But the, and the desire behind the conversation was, what can we do to help that person out? Mm-hmm. So this is where I'm almost justifying some of these conversations. Now, if you're gonna tell me there's a douche bag in the corner that never talks to you at 6:00 AM Mm. That there's, you're not trying to help that person.

Right. And don't, don't put this freaking spin on it. Like, oh, I just want him to be a part of the community. Stop. You need to stop justifying your own actions with some of that stuff. Yeah. And a lot of people are actually scary. Good at that. Mm-hmm. Pathological, liar, caliber. Mm-hmm. Meaning they can convince themselves of anything.

Oh, no, no. I'm do, I'm talking about this person because it's, it's gonna help me. Mm-hmm. Or, or help that person stop. Is it selfish or not? Only, you know the answer. Mm-hmm. And if it's selfish at all, don't address it. But if it's someone like, Hey, I wanna get this person back in the gym, I, mm-hmm. I want this person to be happy again.

Mm-hmm. Those are things, what do you think about, because you have those conversations too. Yeah. I mean, I would say, 90% of the conversations you and I have about other people are about that. Someone's injured. Yes. Someone is not motivated to work out anymore. Right. Someone's clearly lost their way. Yeah.

With health and fitness. No, we've

[00:48:26] Sam Rhee: asked ourselves like, Hey, have you seen so-and-so like, what's going on? Right. Or, you know, so-and-so seems whatever, like, and as long as it's been in a, um, a positive way. Mm-hmm. Now listen, have we as coaches, and this is where I have to check myself, joked about somebody because they're always like shorting their rev or they're motion or something, or they're infamous or not squatting or something like that.

Right? Yeah. And maybe that's not so awesome, but it's, it's mainly not trying to be too evil about it. I think, and, and maybe I should check myself sometimes when that sort

[00:49:02] David Syvertsen: of thing happens, I'll tell you what, man, I, I think as a coach you're allowed to have the, those conversations. Mm. If someone's, if someone is not doing the movement that we're teaching, I mean, Sam is sitting here coaching the five and 6:00 AM.

And again, to reiterate, Sam doesn't need this job. Right? Like he does not need to wake up at four in the morning on a Thursday to come coach 35 people work out. But he wants to and that's really why he wants to. And there's a lot of things about Sam that people don't know about. Like what he truly proves that he doesn't need, need this job, need this money, right?

But he does it because he, he wants to help. And Sam is, he'll get frustrated as a coach. Terry gets like this too with like pushups and I get frustrated with, with this, with like wall balls, right? It almost sounds juvenile to get upset about, but because we care so much about people reaching their fitness goals, and this is a very popular time of year where people are like, I wanna get better for next year.

I wanna get better for next year, then do your shit. Don't tell me in January, you want to get better for the open that year. If these months, right now, in April of the year prior to your goal, you're not doing things correctly. It actually truly frustrates us. So when we talk about someone that, dude, they're, they're cheating on this, they're cheating on that.

Do you really think we care about your strict press? Like to the point where it's like gonna bother us? No, we want you to hit your goal. So we'll talk about that. I mean, Sam and I have these conversations weekly, and I have, I, I have conversations with like coaches about this weekly and it can actually get to a point where it starts to like, they become my problems now.

It's like, I wish this person would understand. What we're trying to do is this gossip. This

[00:50:36] Sam Rhee: reminds me of, and I don't, don't be embarrassed by it because this was, I know you meant it in the best way and, but it also means you have to have a little bit of a thick skin about it. Right? Years, years ago when I first started, um, I was shitty at wall balls.

I, I wasn't squatting to death. I wasn't doing my wall balls properly. And my coaches all tried to help me. Yeah. Well, okay. A couple years ago, you know what I'm gonna talk about, right? I think so. Okay. So, um, I became a coach. Yep. And there is a Facebook group where the coaches, you know, usually we talk, we, we put our hours in.

We, we give schedule. Yeah. A schedule. Um, you know, we new patient, uh, new, not patient, sorry, new, new athlete assessments, new patients, new athlete assessments. Like, oh, I just, uh, on, uh, boarded so-and-so, and you know, they were former athletes. They're really good with this. They're shoulders a little won. You know, all these things to help us as coaches.

And I remember when I first joined that Facebook group, I looked back on it mm-hmm. And I saw there was an event where I, I forget it was an outside comp or something going on at bison, or I don't remember. Mm-hmm. But basically Dave Roden there, uh, you know, Don't let the people who are not doing things right be showcased.

Like, don't let Sam be doing his wall balls in front of everybody because you know, because, because you're doing right. It's a bad look. Right. And I representation factor

[00:52:02] David Syvertsen: there

[00:52:02] Sam Rhee: for sure. Right. Like, it, it makes bison look bad. Right. You know, and I remember reading it and listen, when you first find out that someone's been talking about you, you know, you have all these emotions.

Right? Right. You're like, what? Yeah. How dare he? I'm embarrassed. Right. And then I, you know, you, you sort of process and you're like, first of all, that made me work on my wall balls better than anything else anyone ever said. I said, I did not realize my wall balls were so bad and I got better and I'm still working on them.

And then the second thing is, is that Dave didn't mean this to insult me. Absolutely. Or to make me feel bad or, or anything. He had been telling me my, my wall balls weren't reaching depth. Right. Every time. Right. Nicely. Like you could go, you could go,

[00:52:44] David Syvertsen: but like that time you did Karen and did 220 wall balls.

Well that was my, yeah. Well I don't know how many of those were good reps, but Oh yeah, yeah. You the ball 220

[00:52:51] Sam Rhee: times. Yeah. So in that sense, people talk about each other all the time and you might overhear yourself being talked about, and you might go through all those same emotions that I did. But at the end of the day, it was a very positive interaction in the sense.

I realized where he was coming from as a coach, where he was coming and what I needed to do. Yeah.

[00:53:16] David Syvertsen: It's interesting that you have now both sides of that perspective, because if you never became a coach, but you did find out about the conversation, I would've been angry. Would've been very angry. Right.

Maybe even justified because why the context wasn't known. Right. Right. And the, this happens a lot. Like whenever we have a new member, like we talk about them all the time. We had three new people try out busing yesterday. We we've talked about them as athletes, you know, and, and if they saw that, that man be like, wait a second, that's not very nice.

It's not about being nice, it's and bad. It's about, hey, we need to know about your background to properly help you pursue a fitness goal. Like, would you rather us just be like straight into the fire and say good luck? You know, like I think the amount of detail that goes into some of these things gets overlooked sometimes with, with how we're trying to help.

Um, so I think we could start to wrap this up, you know, over the course of five, 10 minutes. Where, where do you go from here? And I think one of the biggest things I think is unknown, and I don't have the answer, but I'm gonna give an opinion on where is the line drawn. You know, we, we just spent a lot of time actually, you know, defining gossip.

Are you part of the problem, are you not? Right? The, we need to know, you need to have like an objective line for yourself. And we, we started to touch on, on a little bit, here are a couple things that I can help you out with that might not give you the answer, but maybe just get you going in the right direction.

Um, I think conversations that stem, stem from trying to help someone, you know, in my opinion, you could talk about all you want. If that, if that's really is your reasoning behind talking about someone, you're trying to help them. And again, only you know it. Do not be a pathological liar about this if you are truly trying to help them or help the situation.

Talk about it all you want. Thoughts?

[00:54:58] Sam Rhee: Agreed. A

[00:54:59] David Syvertsen: thousand percent. Okay. Conversations that stem from jealousy or judgment or your own insecurity, you keep your mouth shut and your ears open, meaning don't engage in conversations with other people. If any of your thoughts come from, and again, this takes some emotional awareness and intelligence that, I'll be honest with you, I don't think everyone has, because people don't critically think like they used to because of the amount of information that we just get at our fingertips.

Now we have this like AI chat thing that you could just, you know, it's gonna take away even more critical thinking. You just ask a question. You always get the answer easily from a computer, which is weird to me. Um, but because of that, the, one of the negatives of the way our society is headed right now is we don't critically think, we don't spend enough time in true, deep thought and seeking information from others.

We just, we think. Thinking about something for a minute is good enough where I really think it's, and talking about it is good enough. It's no, you need to ask questions and listen that that's where I think should take place of the amount of times you go into conversations about other people, where you are trying to come across as a victim.

Thoughts on that?

[00:56:05] Sam Rhee: Absolutely. I think there are certain people I like more than others at the gym and it. Hard not to necessarily rip into the people that I might not like as much for whatever reason. Right. And that's where I gotta check myself and be like, wait, why? I know I don't like this person. So what am I saying out loud about this person?

Mm-hmm. And I, I'm probably twice as careful about what I say out loud about someone I don't like or, or in text. Yeah. Or not love as much maybe. Mm-hmm. I suppose, if you wanna put it that way, right. Because it's easy. It's, that's, that's a easy line for me to just, someone brings someone up and then just

[00:56:40] David Syvertsen: like, let it roll.

Yep. Just let it go. So, you know, my rule for that, Sam, is if you cannot talk to the person directly, and you wouldn't say to them what you're saying to others about them, that's another thing. You shouldn't say it. All right. I'm gonna say that again. If what you're saying about someone else, if you cannot directly go to that person and tell them that to their face, you shouldn't be saying it.

And I think, I'm telling you, man, I think a lot of issues in this world, in this gym, if they do exist, I don't know, maybe, maybe everything here is perfect. Um, If you had a simple conversation with the person, I bet it would be solved in on their minute. But if you don't and you just have conversations with others about this, it could escalate for years.

And

[00:57:18] Sam Rhee: I don't wanna fool myself by saying, yes. I would go to Dave and be like, you stink,

[00:57:22] David Syvertsen: man. And then be like, the team scoring was terrible for the open. Oh dude, don't even get me started. Oh, we're gonna have to talk about that though.

[00:57:28] Sam Rhee: Don't even get me started with that. Um, that's why I kept

[00:57:33] David Syvertsen: very quiet about that.

Did you notice? Oh, I noticed. I noticed. Okay. Um, but, and then this comes down to intent. What is the intent? And again, only you can answer this question, right? It it, that's. That's where ev it boils down to that 100%. What is the intent? And if it's venting, if it's putting someone else down, if it's making things up, if it's taking things outta context to make yourself look better, make someone else look worse, you know, you're, you're just, you're on the wrong road, dude.

And like, you gotta turn around and go back to, to where you know you should be. Um, and to, to conclude this, right? Um, I wanted to just kind of remind us for the third time why we're talking about this and why I think it's important in bison. From the perspective of bison and my life has very much revolved around it and very much depends on it too.

That the, the people, the culture, the community is the business. It's not a business that is community. The community is the business. And anything that could potentially ruin it, harm it, halt it, take it backwards, hurts, you know, My personal life for a lot of reasons, and I know that hurts a lot of other people's personal lives for a lot of, that's why I care so much about it, you know, that's why we're talking about this and we're not talking about your wall ball strategy in next week's workout.

All right. That'll come too though, don't worry. Um, that I, I, as time goes and I get older and I have different life experiences and I go through different ups and downs and you hear things, I, I think that it's potentially the kryptonite of this gym, but also pretty much any social circle out there.

[00:59:15] Sam Rhee: Uh, I think we have a special community.

We do, and honestly, I don't, I don't feel like this flies around constantly in such a awful way. I mean, when I first, when you first told me this, I was like, oh yeah, this gym is full of that stuff. And, and in retrospect, sort of, sort of breaking it all down, I gotta say I love the positivity. 96.5% of the time.

Yeah. I mean it's, so I'm not going to sit here and say this is like, but that three and a half percent could really devastate some people, like individually could really hurt people. Yeah. And, and I wanna, and I also notice that maybe 10% of my interactions could fall into this category. Yeah. And so I just wanna make sure that, you know, not only me, but we're all sort of making sure we sort of self-analyze a little bit.

Yep. And, and avoid this cuz it is easy to sort of, you know, have some interactions fall into this category and, and it, it does hurt people more than you might ever think sometimes. Yeah. Yep. Especially new people or maybe OGs who have been around for a while and they just don't feel welcome because of something like this.

And I think

[01:00:23] David Syvertsen: if that actually was known, it would be less because I actually think a lot of the gossip. You know, occurrences are not harm, they're not harmful intent, of course, but they are harmful. But they are harmful. And if you know that the value that you get out of discussing this with your friends, family, all this stuff is minuscule compared to the negative impact it can have on the person.

If they find out about it,

[01:00:46] Sam Rhee: everyone, what they say has a lot of value. Mm-hmm. And what you say, or anyone else says, has a ton of value at the gym. Mm-hmm. So value it. Right. And, and treat it

[01:00:55] David Syvertsen: like that. Yeah. And just keep it in front of your mind. You know, I don't want this to be something they keep in the back of your mind.

Because I, I think that's the, like I said earlier, I think it's the most important part of this thing moving forward. And we've, if you're listening to this, you have probably benefited from your CrossFit community. Right. I want you to benefit it from it more, and the only way it's gonna benefit you more, right.

And your friends and your family more is if we kind of keep this toxic. Occurrence out of the gym as much as possible. And like I said, it's about you. If you're listening to this is, this is about you tr doing your part to stay out of that stuff, set the example and don't throw gasoline on a fire. If we all do that, this thing is going to continue moving forward.

I have no question in my mind about that. Zero. I can give you my guarantee, my promise, this place is not going anywhere. It's only gonna get stronger if we can all kind of just follow that same flow. All right. Thanks guys. We'll see you next week.