S01E19 - Comparing Different Diets

Our next episode is with guest Kayla Simpson @_kayla.simpson, fellow coach @crossfitbison. Paleo, Keto, Zone, Intermittent Fasting, Carb Loading, Vegan - so many diets, which one is best? We cover some of the most popular diets and eating protocols out there. Which ones have you tried and which ones are optimal for your lifestyle?

@crossfit #crossfit #fitness #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #crossfitgames #crossfitgames #clean #fitness #crossfit #paleo #keto #vegan #intermittentfasting #carbloading #zonediet

TRANSCRIPT - S01E19 DIFFERENT DIETS

[00:00:00] Sam Rhee: All right. Welcome to the HerdFit podcast with coach Dave Syvertsen and I'm Sam Rhee. And we have our special guests, Kayla, who is our nutritional expert. And this is going to be our second topic that we're covering today about nutrition and fitness. And this is one that I'm really interested in because I have some personal experience with some of it.

And I think most people have experimented with some of these, and this is talking about different fad diets or popular diets or trendy diets, whatever you want to call it. They're basically different guidelines and eating plans that people have. And I'm sure. And if you've ever Try to get fit or in improve your nutrition, you've you, you might've tried any or all of these.

And I think we've all had some personal experience with all of them.

[00:00:43] David Syvertsen: Right. And there's no, there's zero negative tone on any of these I've seen, I think we need to put that out there that we don't. There are some people that have like eight, they passionately. Those that want to do keto. There are passionately hate that those that want to do car bloating, you know, we, we, there are pros and cons to every kind of way of eating.

And that's really what we want to dive into because at some point you might find one of these that you really like, don't like want to try and we'll go from there.

[00:01:08] Sam Rhee: Yeah. What, you know, to start when someone like a client comes to you and says, you know what, I really want to. A particular diet, whether it be Quito or carbo loading or vegan, and I have to do this, how do you work with them?

Or how do you approach it?

[00:01:22] Kayla Simpson: I say your goals or your goals. I'm going to lay it all out there and give you the pros and cons. And I'm going to give you. And we're going to see how, what your lifestyle is. If it can be realistic, if it can be sustained, can we ease into it some way? And how can I best support you and your goals?

I'm never going to tell someone, no, you shouldn't do that unless it's dangerous and it's going to hurt them in the long run. And I'm going to provide why.

[00:01:48] Sam Rhee: So I want to start first because we're going to start with paleo. And I think mainly because it's one of the more popular ones out there, it's the one that I started with when I started experimenting with food.

So when I started at CrossFit bison back in 2015, we had a nutritional challenge and the first, and it was a paleo challenge. And for those who are not familiar with paleo, it's basically the concept is to eat. Foods that were similar to what we ate as human beings many, many, many years ago, before technology, before the advent of processed foods, paleolithic types of nutrition.

And to me, it was really an eye opener because I had never experimented with my nutritional intake. I never actually, you know, hacked my body or whatever you want to call it to sort of see what my response would be to trying a specific diet or, or, or following guidelines. And I did it really all wrong.

I'll say that first. So, so the first thing is, is. I didn't follow any nutritional guidelines in terms of calorie intake. I wasn't tracking calories. All I did was have specific things that I could not eat. Right. That was my intro to paleo, which was, you know, no sugars no dairy. But what that meant was I sat there eating sausage and broccoli and broccoli all day, which awful, you know, these processed meats and it was very simplistic. I probably only ate 10 food, 10 different food types a week. And it was probably one of the most unpleasant, initial experiments that I did with my food and my body. That being said, I did learn a lot about it. I did it was sort of the start of my nutritional thinking and journey about what I should be doing.

It was. I wouldn't recommend doing that unguided for, for anyone, however. So what did you guys think about paleo and, and what, what's your take.

[00:03:56] Kayla Simpson: Sam you are not alone in that process. That is probably 90% of the people that try and start paleo for the first time.

[00:04:05] David Syvertsen: Celery, carrots,

[00:04:06] Kayla Simpson: broccoli. And that's it.

And for snack, you can have some steaks and almond one. I want to preface this by saying there, this is my on bias. Opinion. Now, I shouldn't even say that unbiased approach to these pros and cons of these. And then I want to give my professional opinion on, on the, on these and my real life, because we're all human, my real life experience and opinion on these.

And paleo is one of those, those diets. When I say diet, it's just a way of eating way of eating. Whether you want to call it a fad diet, whatever it is, it's not in a negative tone, it's just a way of eating. So someone who typically picks up paleo, it is very similar to Sam's experience and it can be really eye-opening and it can be sometimes really harmful.

So what is paleo to begin? It is the main food groups that you can have, your meat, your fish nuts seeds. You can have eggs oils, healthy fats, fruits, vegetables, emphasis on whole foods. And it's eliminating and taking out things that cause inflammation per se, like, dairy. I'm not saying that dairy is the end all be all of causing inflammation, but you, on that while you are having pale, you can't have dairy, no processed foods and no processed sugar, also lagoons grains, grains.

So cutting out, cutting out whole food groups from the way that you eat. Now if we want to get into pros and cons first, yeah, let's do it. Pros of paleo is your Rhee. You become very aware of your body and what is going in it. I think that goes for any sort of way of eating. Yeah. Like I've

[00:06:07] David Syvertsen: never read a nutrition label before I ate paleo.

The first time I tried, it was 2012 and that was the first time that okay, if you go to the store and there's a lot of ingredients on there that you don't can't pronounce and you don't want to look up online, it's not paleo. And like, it's one of the simplest things people can do when they go to the store and they buy food.

If there's a lot of stuff in your food, that's when you start going down the wrong.

[00:06:27] Kayla Simpson: Agreed. And so you become way more aware of what's in your food and you it's brings a sense of anti-inflammation per se, because it gets rid of all of the process things, the sugars, the ingredients that maybe weren't made to put into the human body gets, gets rid of the sticky stuff.

You may have some weight loss. If that's one of your goals that can be a pro and you become, I keep repeating myself, but it's just an awareness of the ingredients label is huge. I think sometimes that is half the battle. And you don't look at what you're eating and you just put into your body.

[00:07:08] David Syvertsen: Right? I mean, I think when we hear that all the time, like, do we clean? No, I clean. What does clean mean? I think that's the number one bullet point under clean eating is simple. Foods with the, have one ingredient, you know, and that's it, that's it, there aren't anything that's added. There's nothing added into it and you can be repetitive all you want because that's really what it is.

And that's really what I think paleo teaches the most.

[00:07:31] Kayla Simpson: It's an emphasis on whole, whole foods, whole vegetables. You're getting way more vegetables than maybe you were before and way more fruits that you were before. So you're adding in all of these awesome micronutrients. Maybe you were feeling with something like a quick snack or candy bar or something along those lines now, cons it can be super restrictive, very restrictive and maybe not sustainable for everyone.

You're cutting out whole food groups, things like grains and legumes, even if it's a whole grain, something like barley or Farrow. That those food groups for a lot of people are awesome and there's nothing wrong with them. I do not discriminate on right on these food groups that if they work for your body, then have them, and there's a phrase shop the perimeter of the grocery store.

But what about all of the aisles in between? You can find really solid things in the, in between Isles. You can find things like beans because. People who are vegetarian. If they're eating, they're not eating meat. So they're cutting out meat. And a lot of times they get their, their protein from a lot of beans and legumes.

Now, if those things are okay to your digestive system, there's nothing wrong with having them. It just depends on the person. So it can be restrictive. When you go out, you have to have some planning, maybe you're going to a party and you w they don't have something. Paleo. Are you okay with. Prior, proper planning, or are you going to freak out when you get there because you can't eat anything and not eat?

Most

[00:09:15] David Syvertsen: people don't eat paleo. So if they're going to have a social outing or going to have people over, it's not going to be a paleo

[00:09:20] Sam Rhee: menu. I mean, strict paleo when I did it for that. I was dreaming of pizza. I was dreaming of these foods that I could not have. And that's not sustainable, no strict paleo.

Isn't sustainable. I, I, it did teach me a lot. But yeah, I think kale is exactly right. And the other thing is if you're strict pale, or you start doing crazy things like trying to figure out ways around. It just to try to maintain that paleo ish thing. So you're like, okay, I can't have sugar, but I can have maple like, you know, syrup or something similar to that.

So then you're like devising these meals, which have a ton of carbs in it. But are, you know, that are strictly paleo, but they're not really that healthy for you, or you just eat a ton of bacon because paleo, you know, bacon is paleo, but is that really healthy for you over eat certain things? Right? So, and if you ever counted macro on paleo, that's probably one of the worst things that I had to do when I tried it.

I, it didn't last very long is it's really hard to, to do your carbs because you're so sick of eating the five things are allowed on strict paleo and, you know, going to. You know, and then you start breaking down these definitions, which are arbitrary. Is it an ancient grain? What does that mean? Like, you know, and I know Dave, when we did this, people asked you so many questions about whether this was paleo or that paleo.

Does it really matter?

[00:10:47] David Syvertsen: It doesn't help.

[00:10:48] Sam Rhee: Yeah. Just stick to the basics and you'll probably be okay.

[00:10:53] Kayla Simpson: Right. But food is so much more than just fuel and it's enjoyment. It's going out and having it and sharing it with the people that you love. It's culture, it's religion. And when you take all of those things away at the end of the day, we're just trying to be happy and.

Is it worth it? And I think, yes, it's worth it. I'm not saying do paleo all the time. I'm not saying don't do it either. I'm saying find some balance, find some balance in what you choose and you can,

[00:11:25] David Syvertsen: I think paleo is the best baseline. For the an approach to food, but yet to do it all day, every single day and miss out on a lot of other things that center around food and drinks too, you know, it's not, as I figured out alcohol or just recovery drinks.

It's, it's a good baseline because at the end of day, the majority of your diet should be whole food based. And I think that's where if you did go on like a 2, 3, 4, 5 week paleo strict, even though if you're dreaming about cake, when you go to bed, it does, it does force you to learn. A lot about food.

The most I ever learned about food was doing

[00:11:59] Sam Rhee: paleo. I agree. And then when I started adding the foods back in, it helped me figure out my body. Right. Personally,

[00:12:05] David Syvertsen: which is super important. Yes. So the second, most beneficial. I wouldn't say the most beneficial, the second biggest experience I've had with a fat diet was keto base, but I want to put it out there.

I did not do keto keto to really measure if you're in ketosis, like you're really the best way to do it is to test your blood. I know there's a couple of different ways to do it, and there's like little Kito kits that you can get. I had something recommended to me from Dr. John Hartman. Who's a huge keto supporter, very, very into that way of eating for a lot of different reasons.

A lot of it has to do with brain health and I do have epilepsy. So that as part of the thought of like, Hey, you should try to look into this, but I did very high fat, very low carb for six months. It was the year leading up to the French Throwdown. And it was, I had so much benefit somewhere to paleo and that it forced, it was an easier way to eat healthy.

When I did really high, fat, low carb, like when I knew I couldn't have more than 70, 80 grams of carbs per day. You really kind of looked past a lot of these like little snacky type foods that you everyone over and over overlooks, because it's just a handful here, handful there, but it added up to like 45, 50 grams of carbs.

And I mean, I almost couldn't have anything the rest of the day. And I will say another benefit I had from keto is probably the leanest I ever got. And it was also the most disciplined I ever was over a six month stretch. But at night that's when a lot of people, you know, this is so typical. Like if you get lean and people are like, oh, like what are you doing?

Oh, should I do it? You know, it's, it was very, I got so many people asking me about keto and I just, I was very quick to say I was never in ketosis. I didn't do keto, but the whole mantra of CrossFit HQ is kind of leaning toward this way of really high, fat, really low carbs. And it's, you know, how about you start touching on that a little bit.

Do you have a formal

[00:13:53] Sam Rhee: definition of what a keto type? Yeah.

[00:13:56] Kayla Simpson: So keto diet is 75% of your total calories is coming from fat. That's a really high amount and it's a very high amount and it's very hard to, to achieve. You have to really test your blood in order to make sure you're in ketosis. Right? Most people who try out keto for fun are not in ketosis.

[00:14:17] David Syvertsen: They're just not eating that many carbs. That's really what they're

[00:14:20] Kayla Simpson: doing. Exactly. It's, it's moderate protein. So it's about 20% of your total calories coming from protein. So moderate protein, and then really, really low carb. It's like 5% coming from carbs. Yeah, it's lower than 10. It's like 5% coming from carbohydrates.

[00:14:35] Sam Rhee: And the concept is, is that you're forcing your body. Not to use carbs as fuel, correct. You're forcing it to use fat as fuel, which is why you're in ketosis, because that just shows you how much of the fat breakdown product you have in your

[00:14:51] David Syvertsen: body, which you wouldn't normally

[00:14:54] Sam Rhee: have if you were just burning mostly carbs as fuel.

[00:14:57] Kayla Simpson: Yes. That is, that is correct. It is true. And If you want to go into pros and cons, I mean, thank you for sharing your experience with it. That's, it's hard to do. It was really hard. Yeah. It's really hard to do. And it's something that I don't recommend off the bat. I don't recommend for people to jump into Quito really.

It's it has to be, if you're coming to me to do a ketogenic diet, Honestly, the, probably the one person that I would do it on because this is where it would originally developed is for people who have epilepsy or some sort of neurological disorder or a medical condition. And the, one of the benefits to this is that you gain a lot of mental clarity.

That could be one of the side effects of it. I don't know

[00:15:53] David Syvertsen: the mentally the best I ever felt. And it was, it was pretty evident. I would even say like two weeks in just like waking up, you know, like that feeling you have in the, you wake up in the morning a lot. It's just kind of like, like tired and like grumpy.

Like that was the only time over that much time where I woke up and like, like the second I got out of bed, I was ready to go

[00:16:14] Sam Rhee: when you're, when you are in an extremely low carb situation. Yeah. Isn't it hard to work out because you require glycogen, which is basically carbs in order for that quick workout pick up.

[00:16:27] David Syvertsen: So I would, the only thing I would recommend from a non-professional perspective, I want to put that out there is. I was told that you're going to have an awful four to five weeks of working out and I did cloudy, tired, lacked motivation. But on the other side, I was motivated because the front throw down, so I just fought it and I still train through it, but I definitely felt weak.

And then there was a turn probably about eight weeks in where I felt like it had zero impact. And I remember when Hartman said, if you're going to do this, like you got to do this for a month. You can't do it. Like I hear this a lot during the reset challenge where someone goes from holiday eating straight into reset, which paleo basically what a lot of people like to choose.

And two weeks in, you hear this all the time, like, oh, like I need, like, I feel sick. I need the carbs, I need the bread. Like I need it. And I'm like, you know what? Your body's used to it. And it's freaking out right now because it doesn't have it. But at some point it does make a turn and that's where the discipline comes in a little bit and you're going to have to suck it up.

And, but I do feel like I performed at a high level. One thing I do think I had a hard time with it was I had a really hard time. Like at the end of those six months, I was, I was beating. And at some point, the mental strength just can't do it for you anymore. Like your F your body. Like my quads are breaking down.

My calves are breaking down and you really, you do. You don't get a lot of protein when you eat that way. And it's, it's tough when you're training two, three times a day to do that. I will

[00:17:58] Sam Rhee: say when every time I've done it, Paleo a couple of times that first two, after about two to three weeks at low carb.

Yeah. Get that, that headache. And I always

[00:18:06] David Syvertsen: get it every time. Williamson gets that a lot too, that induction period until you get

[00:18:11] Sam Rhee: sort of stabilized into it and it's, I can't, I don't think I could do it

[00:18:14] David Syvertsen: right. Pretty bad. I know going through something like that once and how hard it is. It does. Yeah. Harder to like, know that it's coming and you just kind of give up sooner.

And I've seen that with a lot of people here, like their first couple of resets or Lauren challenges that we did remember those back in the day. Yup. Motivated, crushed. It saw results. They were able to suck it up for two, three weeks. But every year there are some that just, they can't handle. The fact that they know what's coming and they kind of just give up a little sooner.

And I would say with any of these diets, I was going to put this in at the end, but I'll just say it now. Like you can't do it for three weeks. Like either go all in on it or don't do it at all. Do you

[00:18:52] Sam Rhee: Rhee, do you recommend people try Quito?

[00:18:56] Kayla Simpson: I do not recommend people try Quito unless you have a very specific reason on why you are doing it right.

And you are all in on it for months and. B, you have to be very committed to it. I just, it's hard for me to recommend Quito to the average person. It's just so hard. So unless it's your individual with something maybe neurological going on and or if you really have the burning desire to try it out, maybe I could help you try it out safely.

But I think at that point I'd probably refer to someone else, right. Because I really don't. I couldn't. I just can't recommend

[00:19:34] David Syvertsen: it. Yeah. That's awesome. That's why we want you to be honest about that, you know, because there's a huge, like the keto people are weird, like that it's like a fraternity. It's like, it's like principals, like CrossFitters.

Like they just like want to hold hands and love each other and hate everyone that disagrees with them. But I think like, as Katelyn, I talked to Kayla that's about this, like personally a lot. It's like, you know, I've always said she's a rock star and she's going to go far with whatever she wants to go far with.

But at some point she's going to have to like really put her, dig her heels in the ground and say like, Hey, I'm behind this or I'm not behind this. And if a client wants to say. Once Kayla as their nutrition coach, but they are like, hell bent on being Quito. She's going to have to kind of buck up and be like, Hey, I'm just not the coach for you.

Right. And that's okay. It's okay. She's not the coach for everybody. Just like, you're not, I'm not. And I think that's a, I li I appreciate, you'd rather a coach be honest about that. If kids is going to say, I just don't want to get behind it. Yeah, no, it's okay.

[00:20:31] Kayla Simpson: Yeah. Couple more things on the, just the cons of it.

It sounds like, Shitting on.

[00:20:37] David Syvertsen: I'm going to get a lot of DMS from this and there's this one guy I know that just is like keyed award die.

[00:20:43] Kayla Simpson: Yeah. And I'm not like, or die on anything really. It's just unsustainable in my, in my eyes, but like what about. Yeah. A lot of times people, they fill their diet with, I need so much fat, so I'm getting it from bacon and eggs and meat.

Right. All the time. Right. And at some point that becomes a problem. Like that becomes like. What about all the other micronutrients? I cannot picture cutting out apples and bananas. Right. For some reason I just cannot pick you're cutting out all of these fruits and vegetables

[00:21:20] Sam Rhee: intuitively

[00:21:21] Kayla Simpson: doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense. Yes. And so, unless it's a medical condition, I just can't get behind. I'm cutting out, especially for sport and fueling for those carbohydrates that we talked about earlier. It just

[00:21:34] Sam Rhee: tough. Yeah.

[00:21:35] David Syvertsen: Samsung zone.

[00:21:38] Sam Rhee: Okay. So zone is what CrossFit H home office has espoused and my first experience with it was, and I think for most CrossFitters, if you took your Lyn, was that was what was published in the book and zone.

I've never done zone. It does make sense to me. The people that I know who've tried zone have always found it difficult. From a meal prep standpoint, you have to do a lot of planning. Obviously you have to do a lot of planning. So I think one of the things that all of this sort of this whole talk is about is you have to spend time prepping.

One of the biggest things for any of these diets is that you can't just wing it every day and be like, okay, what are we having for dinner tonight? I'm not sure. Inevitably you will fail anything. Any meal plan, any diet, if you don't prep. And I think one of the things I've seen all of these athletes do when they start getting serious about their nutrition and you see it on their Instagram is meal prep for the week.

And then they have like seven

[00:22:35] David Syvertsen: containers. It's like seven

[00:22:37] Sam Rhee: containers

[00:22:38] David Syvertsen: and blah, blah, blah,

[00:22:38] Sam Rhee: for the gram. You know, but what it basically means is if you are serious about your health, your fitness and your nutrition, you're gonna, you're going to put some time into it. You can't just wing it every day. Just like you can't wing anything, anything that you care about in life, you're going to have to put some prep, map it out, right?

So the zone just very basic and then I'll leave it to Kayla is is you're eating a certain percentage of proteins fats and carbs every day. But Y your meal is comprised of that ideal percentage of protein fats and carbs every day. So if it's something like 40, what is it? 40, 30, 40,

[00:23:19] Kayla Simpson: 30, 30, 30, yeah.

And 40% carbohydrates and then 30% protein, 30%

[00:23:25] Sam Rhee: fat. Right. And then, so every meal has to be perfectly balanced in that way. Good in concept. Yeah.

[00:23:33] Kayla Simpson: Really good in concept. Really great for optimally fueling your body, right? Like you have a really good awareness of what is, what is 40% of protein? What does that look like?

What does that look like throughout the day? And it's gonna make you it's gonna make you feel like if you're fueling for these macro nutrients, And perfectly fitting the puzzle. Ideally you'd come out like a rock star, right? Maybe you'd have some weight loss you're feeling for you, but it comes back to, is that sustainable?

Is that sustainable for every single meal? Every single time of eventually something's got to give that it's not in that perfect zone. And are you going to be okay with. And how is your body going to react? There was also something I read. I don't know if this is true. I've never done zone. I'm not like a huge zone.

The concept is, is good, but I don't, I've never actually done it, but there was something that they limit the amount of calories that you have to, to take in like, not optimally fueling for your spot, like height and weight. But it's like something like 1500 calories to 1200 calories. I don't know. I read something.

I'd have to go back and look that up. But that part was concerning. Like if it, if that is the case, then that wasn't enough food. There wasn't enough food and then you're having these ratios, but they're too low. Right. That's what I'm

[00:24:58] Sam Rhee: saying. I mean, it just doesn't make sense also intuitively, so you have an ice cream cone, so you have to have.

Two bites of steak and some like broccoli with it. When you have your ice cream kind of like that doesn't really make any sense to me.

[00:25:12] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Yeah. It's also, I think people with like really addictive natures that are like almost OCD would probably do well with it, you know, but again, it's like what she said earlier once.

Like at some point. You're going to be thrown off that like, things are beyond your control. Like where, like, how does your body going to respond? Like, sometimes I feel like you're, if you're constantly eating like that, like you're actually turning yourself into a machine. And when you have to turn back to the human, whether it's a holiday or something comes up, something spontaneous happens where you can't map out every single time.

You know that your body might have a very low tolerance for that, you know, it gets sick and then you start, like, that's what the one thing they'll say about keto is if you're actually on keto and ketosis, and then you go with. And have a binge night or you go to a wedding and you have cake and food and potatoes and all this and carbs.

It actually, you actually get sick and you, you almost get to this point where you just have zero tolerance for anything beyond exactly that regimen. And that's probably just not a smart way

[00:26:11] Kayla Simpson: to live. Yeah. I actually know people who experienced that. They would've been keto for like a long, long time work for them.

Their cholesterol levels are good. But if they just get violently sick, if they have sugar. Yeah. It's really

[00:26:25] Sam Rhee: wow. Your body adapts in a lot of ways. You don't even see. I mean, it's a very adaptable thing, but yeah, if you don't change it up a little bit, sometimes it can be a little rough. Yeah. I just feel like with zone I think it, the principle is good.

Like you mentioned, you should have carbs with your protein. It's a good way of absorb, you know, of muscle building and and you shouldn't always eat just, you know, certain meals that are all high-fat or all carbs, but these are principles that are guiding us and to strictly adhere to them all the time seems to be.

Not feasible for 99% of us.

[00:27:02] Kayla Simpson: I want, yeah. I agree. Even if you're training for the top, if you're an Olympian, it's, it's like putting things into like these perfect little boxes. That's just not how our day works. Right. And it's okay. If it doesn't, you can still fuel and be complete. Fine and actually perform well without having to hit your zone every single time.

It's it becomes a little obsessive and it can create in some personalities, eating disorders or disordered eating patterns, right?

[00:27:35] David Syvertsen: Yep. Next one. Okay. The intermittent fasting. Okay. This is when I actually think that if we took a poll of everybody out there, whether it's our jammer just out public, I think a lot of people have tried this.

Yeah. And as sometimes people do it subconsciously, you know, just based on like the routine of their day and their schedule intermittent fasting, essentially that you're just, you're eating all of your calories and a very short window of time. So the vast majority of the day, you're not allowed to eat.

Okay. And it's subjective. Like the research I've done. It says either all of your eating is done in a two to four hour window. And the extreme ones are, you only eat for two hours a day. And so the other 22 hours, you're not eating at all. And I've naturally done this, like in the past, I've never really said, okay.

I'm only arrived to eat from three to 7:00 PM, but I've done this where my schedule is so wacky sometimes. You know, I'm up at three 30, I coach, then I train that. Then I go back and coach again, or go home and go to sleep or like, oh, I'm not eating until four o'clock. And then I eat again at seven o'clock and that's it.

And then I go back to bed and the whole do that rat race again. What are some pros and cons of intermittent fasting? Because I actually get people to ask us about this all the time, and I think it has more. More has to do with the fact that they just can't control themselves throughout the day. They snack a lot.

So I think that's almost like, is this a way to combat that? Thoughts on intermittent

[00:28:55] Kayla Simpson: fasting the snacking? It does take the snacking away, but intermittent fasting, there's actually three different kinds of intermittent fasting. Okay. And the first one is it's like a complete alternate day. Of it's called complete alternate day fasting.

So you literally fast or like two days at a time, or you alternate your days of fasting. The next one is a modified fast, which is it begins so like there's no food restriction. And then later in your day it's just like different ratios of food restriction. And the last one is it's a time restricted time, restricted feeding, which is the most common it's that like you're only eating from whatever it is, noon till 8:00 PM or noon till like a shorter window.

You can shorten each of those windows. With whichever one you choose. Pros is it provides a sense of control. It can eat. It literally takes out the times of when you can and when you can not eat. Right. So you can't eat past 8:00 PM. All the snacks go away. It, it takes the thought process out of you can't have your late night ice cream, or maybe there's bad habits forming around binge eating at night.

That's a pro. I think automatically you're in a calorie deficit when that happens. And you could experience some sort of weight loss, if that's one of your goal, or maybe even if one of your goals is to gain muscle mass, you're decreasing your body fat in some area because there's naturally a calorie deficit when you're restricting the window of when you can eat, makes people eat

[00:30:36] David Syvertsen: less.

Yeah.

[00:30:37] Kayla Simpson: Period. Yeah. Another pro to this it's it provides like a sense of structure. It provides, I'm trying to think of other pros besides, I mean, you could experience because you're eating less or maybe eating. More of what you want within a certain window. Again, a lot of these diets provide less like inflammation, less stickiness, but on the other side, in those windows, your eating, whatever you want, there's no restriction to what you're eating.

Right? You can eat as much as you want for those three to five hours or whatever those hours may be and go absolutely balls to the wall. No, that's also not. That's also not good. So that brings me to my cons, which is why is it better just think about it? Why is it better to eat within a three hour, two five-hour window?

Why would that be better than spacing it out from when you wake up? To when it's lunchtime to win a few hours before bed, why does it matter? There's you're eating the same amount of calories, probably eating a little bit more without the restricted time zones. So in my eyes, there's more cons than pros.

But it's it, there is research there's research that it, it is linked to weight loss and it is linked to like improved bio health markers. Okay. So things like insulin insulin, there actually was one study there's insulin resistance, which is a bad thing in women. But then there was things like blood glucose levels, those were lowered, but where they lowered, because you're eating less of the bad stuff during those other hours, or was it because your overall more healthy, you know, that's up to you for you to decide, like, do you feel good on this or do you feel like you're missing out on those other hours of the day?

So,

[00:32:52] David Syvertsen: yeah. I mean, predominantly I think the majority of the people that have weight issues. Our body image, like, like they always want to lose weight. They're a little overweight. I mean, we are in a country that's very obese, right. We eat too much at the end of the day. That's that's, that's the case for a lot of people, right?

I mean, in our gym, it may be not the case because we know we're in just such a healthy group of people here, but we always have to keep in mind that for the majority of the public, the majority of. Eat too much. And I think if you shorten a window, it's like, it's almost like what I did with my dog when he needs to lose weight.

Like when you shorten them out a window and you can try how much they can eat in that window. It's, you know, like no more treats during, in day. But, but like the vet told me you're 10 pounds overweight. So all you're going to do is get your two meals, you know, breakfast and dinner. And you know, it immediately brings down, you know, the weight and I'm sure there's other health markers.

Coincide with that, that I think that is, but, you know, for people that are in our space here, the people that we work with, you know, we're around so many healthy people, health minded people, you know, I think that's when it starts to become a negative with what, some of the things that you said, you know, like, especially if you train in the morning, but your eating window is when at night.

Then it's kind of getting away from what we just talked about earlier about, you know, you need some carbs and protein after you work out. So if you're on this kind of routine where you work out in the morning, you're eating windows at night or vice versa, you know, it's almost like you could be doing more damage than good.

Wow. 100%. I

[00:34:18] Sam Rhee: think this is the one that I have seen most. Non-athletes try. I mean, I have so many non-athletes have come and say, I love intermittent fasting and for. And I think the reasons that you mentioned Dave, is that it works with my schedule, right? I'm so busy. I can't do eating for 18 hours a day, so I'm just going to fit it in at night.

And then I don't even have to think about it while I'm working or doing whatever. Right. And then they say, I have so much more energy on it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So anecdotally, when I hear people who talk about intermittent fasting, they, they seem to love it. I don't feel like again, There are some people I know who've done it for a long time, like a year or so or longer, but for most people, I don't think it seems as, as sustainable as anything else is.

To limit your your eating window into such a short period is also not compatible with a lot of stuff that you end up doing. What do you do when you have to meet people for lunch or for breakfast, or with your kids or your family, and you know, what are you going to do on, on Sunday and Saturday? And so I have a lot of people who do this sort of during the week, and then they just kind of rate, like they just stop on the weekends.

Right. But then you're not really a strict intermittent faster. You're just sort of. Adjusting your eating schedule, which is adjusting your eating schedule is fine. Everyone adjusts their eating schedule. Like that's totally fine. You'd have to skip a meal every so often you do. If you want to skip meals for four days a week or five days a week, and then eat, you know, regular on the weekends, that's totally fine, but that's, that's not strict intermittent fasting.

And that's where I wonder. I don't believe necessarily the, or no. Let me rephrase that. The science about the benefits about intermittent fasting is not clear to me. And I don't feel that the benefits shown in these studies are so great that I myself would, would go try intermittent fasting. I anecdotally feel better.

I'm a, I'm a morning workout person. I don't eat before I workout. I just drink a crap load of water when I first wake up. And that was from one of our learning challenges. That's where I learned that again, learning how to hack your body. But I do eat something after I work out and I think it would be negative if I didn't.

And then I try to eat something mid day and I could work my schedule where I didn't have to, and I could just eat in a, in a certain eating window, but I feel like I'm doing really well. Anecdotally with what I'm doing. I don't know if I saw the benefits in any of this literature where it would, would make it better for me if I had now if I was a resident let's suppose I was working crazy hours, I would try this only because I was forced to, because I didn't even have time to eat for 18 hours.

Right. Yeah. Then fine. I could do that. But I don't think it would be necessarily better for me. And. And if you're going to do it strict, then that's where you're supposed to get the benefits. Just like ketosis. Right. It's only good if you're strict, if you break on the weekends, what's the

[00:37:16] David Syvertsen: point of doing, you don't really know if you're seeing a real benefit from it.

[00:37:19] Kayla Simpson: Yeah. A lot of these in conclusion, these studies are, we need further research. A lot of nutrition studies are like that. And That's a, that's a common theme across the board, but it's also we talked about fueling for, for, for P for performance specifically. And if you aren't going to, like, should you be intermittent fasting if you're training for something like that is, that's a common question.

And. If you're not providing your body with carbohydrates beforehand then maybe you're not going to get to your optimal performance during the mid, the height of your workout, especially if you're training high intensity for, and it's so anything, especially anything over an hour, if you're going over an hour of training training facet is not a great idea and I don't, I wouldn't recommend it at that point.

You should be fueling so you can have. It's something. So you can Le energy. So you can last throughout your workout. Right?

[00:38:20] David Syvertsen: All right. We have two left here. Carb loading Sam. Oh, me. No, I can do carb loading if you want it. Yeah. I mean, to me loading carbo-loading isn't like, I mean, you have like paleo ketos on like there's very objective measurements on.

Those are definitions. I should say. Carb loading. The time I tried, this did not have a good experience with, it was kind of like what Kayla was just talking about. Like you ate, you did have a ton. I think it was 80% of your carbs for. Around your workout. So within two hours of your workout, and then within two hours after you work out, 80% of your carbs were taking it at those times.

And I'm a guy that I don't like eating a lot for workout. I'll usually have something, but I don't like going crazy and putting a lot of food into me. I will go on the other side at the end of the workout. I will eat a lot. Kayla touch on some, either experiences you have, or just some of the pros and cons of carbo-loading in relation to this wood has more to do with someone that's really performance centered.

Like they're like, Hey, I care if I hit two 50 on my back squat, I better. And I hit 2 45 or else it'll ruin my day. Right. It's like they they're very performance centered where I don't think this relates to as much as someone just doing this for a lifestyle.

[00:39:35] Kayla Simpson: With that I had to look up if this was an actual, like diet people followed, but it's more of like an idea or an idea.

Right. I, I was like, oh, maybe that's a new thing, but no, I it's the carbo-loading idea is what Dave said. It's PR fueling for, for performance a lot of times, and being able to like access your. Like enough glycogen storage or it's yeah. So it's feeling, feeling for performance, but recommended amounts of carbohydrates.

I'm just going to like straight off the bat. This is what the idea of research has, has shown. So it's, if you're an athlete, particularly a strength athletes, I'm someone who works within CrossFit or someone, maybe you're a powerlifter or you're even a soccer player and you're lifting throughout the off season or during season.

So, it should be around. So anything from five to six grams per kilogram of body. Around there. So you would transform divide your body, weight into kilograms and multiply it from there. Now that's a lot of carbohydrates and to sometimes I've seen, gone up to 10, which is a huge amount of carbohydrates.

Yeah. Huge amount of carbohydrates and there's pros and cons. So pros would be your energy levels, like literally in your body are fueled and stored and you can perform. Maybe better. I mean, that's also something, a performance thing that's maybe a little bit subjective. You'd have to see how you feel.

And then cons would be well how, like all of these carbohydrates at one time. Are you having any GI upset? Like, are you feeling bloated now? Do you feel sluggish? How long beforehand are you? Carbo-loading is it the night before? Do you really need that many carbs the night before? Or can we space them out throughout the day and still get the same approach now?

I think. Personally from what I've seen and what I've heard from other sports nutritionists, it's racing them out throughout the day, but making sure you have them before your workout and making sure if you're, carbo-loading, you're having a little bit more of them before the workout, the numbers that I told you before.

But to me, it's more spacing them throughout the day and then making sure you have them before and after your workout.

[00:42:05] David Syvertsen: And this kind of like when we talked earlier last episode, No, the whole Matt Frazier, the Snickers and the co coming. Not that we don't wanna get too repetitive, but I think that car bloating is centers around what some of those guys do that literally.

I mean, some of these guys games, athletes, right. They train all day for like 6, 7, 8 hours. And they're so big on the carb loading in between their sessions. Right? Like getting those quick carbs in for the concept of again, concepts is what we're really talking about here. Not just their like rules, but concepts of need to replenish your stores.

And have energy for your next session and th the debate slash what we kind of all agreed on the last session or the last podcast was, it's not just about carbs. Like, it needs to go a little deeper than that. Like, what else do these foods have? Or what else do these powders have that, you know, could eventually learn to long lead to long-term issues?

When in regards to inflammation, GI tract and a bloated issues. So I think that Carlos. Is one thing that, again, the concept of replenishing is important there. The, the, and the concept of spacing your carves out throughout the day so that you can use them for when you do train is important, but to jam all of them in right before or right after.

It's just not, probably not the most economic way to do it

[00:43:25] Kayla Simpson: durable. Yeah. A lot of times it's just not comfortable. If these experienced nausea and that's going to hurt your workout,

[00:43:30] Sam Rhee: doesn't matter the type of work. Your clients are doing, if it as CrossFitters, most of our work has don't exceed 20 minutes, maybe if that but then if someone who's a triathlete and is training like these very long sessions, do you, maybe it's more helpful for them than say.

For short, higher intensity type work. Right?

[00:43:51] Kayla Simpson: I would say for someone who's running more like a marathon or half marathon, especially fueling carbs within the marathon or something, that's a really long paced out workout more than an hour long. It is beneficial to have they have those like gummies or like little pouches that are really fast acting carbohydrates.

Yes. There is. There's something to say about that, that, that, that would be beneficial. But more so the high intensity in CrossFit is also something to think about too, because you're, you're going max effort at some of these really high intensity, but short workouts. Those would be. If you have your carbohydrates beforehand and space them out throughout the day, that would be just as you would be fine with that.

[00:44:39] David Syvertsen: Cool. So I think we have one left vegan. I only have one thing to say about it cause it was, it was a funny

[00:44:45] Sam Rhee: anecdote. I I had a patient who came in, who was who wanted a liposuction and, and she was, you know, she had a pretty high B.

[00:44:53] David Syvertsen: Okay.

[00:44:54] Sam Rhee: And she said, it's really hard. I don't know. I'm trying to lose weight.

I'm vegan. And her husband was with her and said, vegan, you eat

[00:45:03] David Syvertsen: Oreos. What are you talking

[00:45:04] Sam Rhee: about? And technically that Oreos are vegan. And so that's all I had that threw her under the bus. Oh my God. Yeah. And I said, you know, that's all I really thought about was, you know, It, you know, I mean, we, well, you'll define it more strictly, but you know, the whole concept of vegan being vegetable, eating, carrot, eating celery, eating, you know, crunchy granola type people is just that really threw me for a loop.

And I realized you can cheat and eat awful on pretty much any diet that you want. Right. There's no restriction you can get around. It's

[00:45:40] David Syvertsen: amazing. The games we

[00:45:41] Sam Rhee: play for anything. So, that, that was my initial thought about a, about a vegan diet. Anyway, so, but go ahead. Let's talk about

[00:45:48] Kayla Simpson: vegan diet. You have to decipher why, why you're doing it in the first place.

Is it moral? Is it because you care about animals and the environment and animal products? Because you're not having animal products on, on a vegan diet. It's, it should be, it's purposely done to have more whole foods, fruits, vegetables, grains, and no. Yeah. So no dairy, no animal products just to keep it short and simple.

And pros and cons pros. You're eating way more vegetables. You're eating only vegetables. You're relying on. Nuts seeds, beans like booms, certain plans for your protein, and maybe even like a vegan protein powder that can, that can help supplement protein in your diet. And it's it's whole foods that should be anyways that on the other side of the flip side, You passed as vegan,

[00:46:46] David Syvertsen: right?

[00:46:49] Kayla Simpson: I mean, there's nothing wrong with pasta, but if your diet is only filled with processed, These vegans snacks that look really cool and whole foods. I will, first of all, I love trying all of them. I have this really bad habit of buying, like not just the vegan ones, but just filling my cart up and being a human Guinea pig to try them so I can recommend them.

But a smart. But it's what what else is in the, what else? Listen, those things is really broad. It's just too broad. It's like what you have to be really specific on where you're getting your protein from, and if you're getting enough of it and I've seen athletes do it and be fine, right. Like they really love it and they feel really good, but they weren't necessarily training for.

Something really hard right at the time. And if they were, they had to be very, very specific. I think it's hard to sustain, but I think it can bring a healthy lifestyle in general into a person's

[00:47:52] David Syvertsen: life. Th the few people that I've worked with, and again, not on your level of like professionalism, just like kinda just like bouncing ideas off of like with their food.

And one of the biggest things I've noticed other than the fact that they under eat is there's such a detriment of vegetables and. You know, when we talk about vegetables, I think vegetables get this bad rap sometimes like, oh, it's just for people that want to eat healthy. I'm like, no, you know, that feeling that you feel like you're always like, you know, bloated or you feel like your inflation, your joints always hurt.

You feel cloudy in the morning. You have significant mood swings. Like a lot of that can be solved by micronutrients, right? Like so many people I have for every 10 people that asked me. Macros how like their carbs and the protein, the fat I'll have one person asks about their micronutrients. And I have this document saved on my computer that I send to them just like, Hey.

You know, if you're, if you feel like your division and B12 and magnesium and potassium, potassium, like these are the foods that, you know, we can set our, like, let's stop thinking about so much about just your macros and like, let's make sure we get all these into, into your daily intake at some point. And I think that's one of the best things about vegan is it really kind of opens the door to the benefits of food that goes so far beyond what you weigh and what you look like.

And it's more, you know, the feeling, the recovery, the lack of inflammation. Because again, you could eat perfect macros and eat really unhealthy. Oh yeah. You know, you can eat perfect vegan, be really unhealthy. Like it's, it, it, it has to go a little deeper than that again. And I think that's one of the biggest things about vegan is the benefits is that it does open the door for the possibility of, you know, really diving into a lot of different

[00:49:33] Kayla Simpson: micronutrients.

I would ask yourself. So my one thing to ask you is ask yourself why, why, what are your goals and why do you want to start this certain. Diet per

[00:49:46] David Syvertsen: se. That's a great question for coach. I always ask,

[00:49:49] Sam Rhee: I think I do know a lot of people who are vegan again, some athletes, mostly non-athletes and it's mostly a philosophical viewpoint, right.

You know, about doing better for the environment. And animals, meat is extremely carbon bad inter you know, cows generate a lot of methane. Greenhouse effects. You know, it's not sustainable for a world economies, you know, especially for poor countries, if they all eat like we did, you know, they just, you know, crush the environment.

So from that viewpoint is very admirable, but on the other hand you do have to look at it and say, okay, so from a personal standpoint is six ounces of salmon. Versus a ginormous plate of pasta. What's really going to be better for you. And. If you can stick to again, strict is tough. So if you really care about your health vegan dish, just like I try to live paleo ish, if you try to live vegan ish, but then you add maybe eggs.

Maybe you add some fish, you know, whatever you feel like is reasonable for you. You probably by stretching. Guidelines a little bit. We'll make yourself a way more healthy person then trying to adhere strictly to anything.

[00:51:10] Kayla Simpson: Hmm. I love that Sam. There's nothing wrong with ish. There's nothing wrong with ish.

You don't have to set these arbitrary boundaries for yourself and do what feels right for you. And. We're all trying to, just to see, achieve the same goal. Right. So

[00:51:27] David Syvertsen: I think that's a good way to wrap this one up, you know, it's, nothing's wrong with ish.

[00:51:32] Kayla Simpson: Is that science

[00:51:35] David Syvertsen: science. All right. Thank you.