S01E23 - Mistakes CrossFit Coaches Make

Our next episode is again with guest Mike DelaTorre @coachmiked, fellow coach @crossfitbison. We discuss what are some of the common mistakes CrossFit coaches make. How can coaches identify, correct, or better yet, avoid those mistakes?

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TRANSCRIPT S01E23 - Mistakes CrossFit Coaches Make

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: Welcome back to the HerdFit podcast. I am coach David Syvertsen, I am here with Dr. Sam Rhee and our special guests coach Mike DelaTorre. This is episode number two with him, I think, unless we made the other one too, but it's one of the, it's one of the, it's one of the episodes with Mike, not after the first one.

I'm still working on my podcast intros, by the way, if you can't tell. So this one we have two that are lined up here and it's centered around mistakes and mistakes that coaches make, which I'm sure many of you will agree with, with your headphones in, but also mistakes that athletes make.

And these are common mistakes. These are mistakes that we've made. These are mistakes that we've seen other people make. And we're going to start off with the coaches. And I think that a lot of people listening to this never want to coach, are never going to coach. They would be like, why the hell would I listen to this?

And a coach athlete, it's a relationship and any relationship you need to make effort into understanding where the other side is coming from. And relationship to me is not always like the, the lovey-dovey husband, wife, or best friends, lifelong friends. Relationships are people that you interact with on a somewhat consistent basis.

And whether you love or hate your coach or whether the coach loves or hates you, it's still a relationship that needs to be worked on. And part, one of working on a relationship is not thinking about yourself, it's thinking about where the other person's coming from. So I think from an athlete perspective, you can get a lot out of this.

Obviously the coaches, I think you can get a lot of out of this as well or someone that wants to coach someday. And there's a lot of years of experience Mike's been coaching well over a decade now I'm approaching a decade and Sam you've been about, about half a decade, almost almost about three to four years.

[00:01:44] Sam Rhee: Right. Very generous with that. I mean, in terms of hours,

[00:01:46] David Syvertsen: but I know like Mike and I have made this a full-time career and we've done that for a long time and yes, we have more experience, but when it doesn't necessary better or worse that Sam's worse. We're better. It's just, we have more experience, but I still think there's perspective from Sam that you can get.

And I think we already talked about this. We're going to kind of call each other out here, with some mistakes that we made and some things that we've avoided, but I think it's going to be a big help for a lot of guys. I'm pumped about this one. I think

[00:02:12] Sam Rhee: more people are going to listen to this then anything else because they love crapping on coaches.

I, for sure 90% of what I hear from athletes is why did that first play this crappy music. Holy crap.

[00:02:24] David Syvertsen: Don't worry. That will be addressed. That will be addressed. So from, from both perspectives. Yeah. This might turn into a venting session.

[00:02:34] Sam Rhee: Why do you think we did this podcast that we could bitch?

[00:02:36] David Syvertsen: So yeah, we did. We're going to start off with the coaches. And this is going to be kind of humbling for all three of us. And, but I think. If anyone wants credibility in any area of their life, they have to show humility, not think that they're humble. And I always think humility is how often. And if you want to make this simple, humility is, can be subjective.

What it actually means to me. It's how often do you admit that you're wrong? And how often do you say sorry to other people and publicly, how often do you say, sorry, how often do you admit you're wrong? If your answer is like, I don't really know the last time, then you're not humble. That's that's my Opinion.

So the first thing, the first topic I'm going to talk about here is ego-based coaching verse service based coaching. And in my opinion, a coach is more of a servant than they are a dictator. And that gets. Yeah. Yeah, for

[00:03:25] Mike DelaTorre: sure, man. I remember when, when I first, so when I very first started coaching, I was coaching high school kids and it's, it was hard.

Cause I mean, I was a kid myself. I was like 19, and I definitely did that dictator approach and it was definitely like, cause you're trying to, you don't know what you're doing when you're first starting out and especially if you're a kid coaching, other kids. I mean, it was really, it was really hard to like wrangle control.

So you have to have, some sort of like discipline with high school kids.

[00:03:56] David Syvertsen: There's nothing wrong

[00:03:57] Mike DelaTorre: with that, but I was definitely just way too, like way too much of a dictator. And over time as, as I was coaching and just got older, really, you start to realize, oh wait, like, you need to need to make bonds with people.

That's how the that's how you gain. Someone's respect. Right, right. By making that kind of like bond and getting that attachment. Yeah.

[00:04:21] Sam Rhee: I mean, one of the biggest thing is we all have teachers and coaches that are very prickly. Like they don't. Take threats to themselves very well. And a lot of that is insecurity.

I mean, I've known so many people, like you have to really kind of watch out cause their ego is very big. If you say something that challenges their authority or makes it seem like you're. Listening to them or not doing what they say. They get all pissed off. And, and a lot of that is because they're like, Hey, I'm the leader here.

You have to follow what I do and what I say. Right. And they take anything that seems against that to be an attack on themselves. And most coaches that I know are secure enough the good ones that they can take, any of that criticism, roll with anything that people are doing that. May sort of look like a, an attack on them and work with it, channel it.

Yeah. Channel it. And I think that that comes with experience and it comes with security of self too. So if, if you have someone who's really insecure, that's a, that's a tough thing to be as a

[00:05:24] David Syvertsen: coach. Yep. I always feel like they're being attacked. Yeah. If let's talk about bison, right? Like if you're coaching and you, a couple of people are talking in the corner and two friends that are meeting up, haven't seen each other in a week and they're catching up and you're talking about the work.

Yeah. Sometimes in your head you want to explode like, yo you're being disrespectful, but you don't really like, unless it gets really bad, you don't really address. But if you're like an insecure person, you, you feel like you're being attacked. Like you're like, oh, they're doing it on purpose. Like they don't do it to other coaches, but they do it to me.

Like that's insecurity, and that's, I don't want to come down on anyone for, for being insecure or being self-conscious, but how you react to that is more important than what's actually happening.

[00:06:04] Sam Rhee: I think teachers can very much relate. Especially kids will work to get a rise out of you. And if they see any point of weakness, blood in the water, you're, self-conscious about something, they will just stick their thumb on that and grind until you, and, and just, just to get a reaction out of you.

Yeah, for sure. So I think. I mean, I don't want to really coaching to teaching

[00:06:25] David Syvertsen: kids, but honestly, there are some parallels. There are some and I would even say like, sometimes this line gets blurry for a coach because at the end of the day, right? Like you are in charge of the room and you're, there are things that you have to you're in charge of that are far beyond the workout.

Like we have to be on time. We have, especially when you coach in the morning, like Mike it's, it's stressful. I don't want to be four minutes behind because I have 24 people coming in and they all come and bitch about not being able to find a parking spot because the 5:00 AM went too long. Right. So it's like you do at certain points have to come across as a dictator.

Right. And if someone catches you in the wrong moment, they're like, oh, that guy's into his ego. And I think that a coach, you just need to internally. Why are you there? Like you're not there to run the class. You're there to help people. You're help running the class. And the logistics of it is part of your job, but you're first there to serve people.

[00:07:22] Sam Rhee: That's the attitude you need to have. Right. And then anything else that springs out of that, whether it's misinterpreted or it doesn't go right, eventually we'll be okay.

[00:07:32] David Syvertsen: Yep. Yeah, for

[00:07:33] Mike DelaTorre: sure. Cool. I mean, there's, as a coach, you're playing so many roles, right? Like, like you're saying like logistically you have to make sure things are running on time.

You have to keep people safe. You're also teaching people. Yep. And I think, I mean, anyone that's, anyone that's taken class with me, especially the 1:00 PM. Hey, you guys know, dude, I look at my phone and I'm like, all right, like 5:00 AM, boom. We're starting, like 1:00 PM. We're starting because for me.

I want to make sure that everyone gets the proper coaching experience. Right. So if, if I'm, delay in class by like five, six minutes, right. That's kinda messing with everybody else. Yeah.

[00:08:15] David Syvertsen: So you might come across as a dictator, right. If you're starting at one, but yeah. And at the end of the day, like this is more internal.

We can't, we can't turn this into bitching about athletes yet, but some of the athletes need to know that, that like, I think Mike has proven himself for over a decade here. He's here for you. Like he's here for the athlete, but he will come across as a dictator at some point. So I think I've had people ask me to coach here and I didn't tell them this.

Why? Because they didn't ask me why I would tell them is. They want to be in charge more than they want to help people. Yeah. I just don't think it makes a good coach.

[00:08:48] Sam Rhee: I don't know, a single bison coach where I would say they're more ego-based and service-based, they're all service-based in your mind, for sure. Always thinking not of themselves.

[00:08:55] David Syvertsen: But that's one of the probably main prerequisites of that someone that's going to coach and, we've always pretty much approached every coach to, to coach here. And that's like, and you get to know them over, a couple of years, at least. And that's like, they're there for the right reason.

[00:09:09] Sam Rhee: And I think the more senior and experienced ones, they actually have the least ego because of the experience. For sure. I know I was super sensitive when I first started, like, are they career like what's going on? And the bigger. You are as a person, the less that stuffs tends to,

[00:09:26] David Syvertsen: Yup. For sure. So another mistake that I see a lot of coaches make inconsistent attitude and approach and How about before I go into what I think about it, Mike, you give us just what pops into your head first about this being a mistake that you've made our coaches have made with the inconsistent attitude and approach to coaching.

[00:09:45] Mike DelaTorre: We've definitely done this in the past. We're like, all right. Let's just, let's, let's think about a workout, right? Like, all right, cool. Here's a workout. Like, so when, when the programming sent out, like you can kind of pick out, especially when your experience like, all right, cool man. Like this is very technical.

This is a very simple workout. I've definitely in the past, I've made the mistake of iron man. It's pretty simple workout. I can kind of like, kinda like coast through like warm up and coast through like setting things up. And that 100% has always come back to bite me. So being consistent with your preparation is really, really important.

And like, it's not like. Is that like I spent hours and hours coming up with like a lesson plan or something, because I've known, I've realized now like the simpler, you can make things the better. It is most times, but you do have to come up with a plan, so being consistent with your planning, even if it takes like five minutes, do that five minutes to make such a big, big difference.

[00:10:40] David Syvertsen: And just advice to coaches like in and out of bias, in perspective coaches in and out. At an experienced cross. It that the class will know if you prepared or not. Oh, for sure. The class will know if you like putting it together, like last minute or as you go, they're going to know. And it's, it's a bad look.

[00:10:57] Mike DelaTorre: Yeah.

[00:10:57] Sam Rhee: I know some people that are better prepared than other, or some days people are better prepared and, as an athlete at bison, like exactly. The other thing is, is that me as a coach, like when I. I mean, I'm still on the very early stage for no, no doubt. But you know, when I first started, I was like, okay, who do I know as a coach?

The best? Well, I've taken probably more classes with Dave yeah, than anyone else. So a lot of times I was like, well, let me do what Dave does, or what would Dave do in this situation? Yeah. doesn't work. I'm not Dave. Like I can't do that. I can't say the things he does. And even if I do, they're not coming across the same way.

I have to do things my own way and I don't even really know what that is half the time. Yeah. But I, I feel like every coach has their own unique attitude, their own approach, and it has to be different. I mean, there's no doubt when I take ashes class versus. Rams in class or storms class or Terry's class or your class where Mike's class.

Yup. They're all really, really different. Yeah. Or tasks, class, like really different. And I will say I talked to athletes and, and Susan, like she'll take a mid day class and she'll be like, wow. Chris had a really good warmup for this. And I was like, Tafaro

[00:12:12] David Syvertsen: you guys warmed up? He's like,

[00:12:15] Sam Rhee: Yeah, his music suck. But the warmup today, and I was like, oh, that's great. And you know what? I haven't taken a tap class in a while. And I was like, that's great. And for everyone, they, they, they're in inconsistent to the individual coach is not good. Right. But as an athlete, you must be comfortable having.

A bunch of different coaches with a lot of different attitudes. And you can say, I love Liz. She's so good. I'm only going to take her class because she's

[00:12:44] David Syvertsen: this way. Now that will come up F that, that will come up with the athletes.

[00:12:49] Sam Rhee: You must must approach every coach and take what they have to give you in the most positive way. If you're already thinking about this coach, Yeah, not my style. Yeah. You're you're, you're going to have problems as an athlete.

[00:13:03] David Syvertsen: Yeah, for sure. I had an athlete tell me over the summer, it's like, oh, I'm only coming to your classes. Like what, when you coach in this week, when he, and I like, literally, it was like, no, absolutely not.

Because like, I'm confident in my ability to coach, but I know there's coaches here that can help you in ways I cannot. And like, again, it comes back to humility. Like I don't have all the answers for your issues. Like I've gone to. And asked him for advice on like, dude, I can't get this person's stubble and there's, I can't get, like, what do you think I should do with this person's knee, this person's shoulder, and I think that if an athlete has the ability to go to as many different coaches classes as you can, I know a lot of us are regimented with what time we work out. And bison schedule hasn't changed that much with coaches when we're in a routine. But if you have the. Go to as many different coaches classes as you can be, as you will, you'll get a different feel.

And that's part of how we've made the staff. We don't want a bunch of mikes. We don't want a bunch of Dave's. We don't want a bunch of Chris's. Right. We're not playing fish all day every day. But the I really think there are things like I could say there are things Chris has helped me with TOSA bar that no other coach could help me out with back in the day, like, wait Tafaro TOSA bar.

Yeah. And Tafaro had a great line one time. He's like, I don't want to learn gymnastics from 140 pound dude that wears like skinny jeans all day. Like I want to learn gymnastics from the 240 pounds or that can bang out five muscle-ups in a row. And I'm like, it's a good point because it's not natural for that person.

He, he had to figure out ways to do it. And I think that's that's a good example. So when it just comes to the coach, having an inconsistent attitude and approach one thing I can say that I still to this day, I think I struggle with, I don't know if you guys can notice it as athletes in the class.

Like if I'm not in a good Headspace, like I have a shorter fuse when. Like in terms of like, especially with bigger classes when you're trying to like, be on time. Like if I have a bad training week and I've had a few over the past, like few months and just like not, or something's going on at home, or I got freaking water in my basement, again from these big rainstorms.

Right. Or, just being a dad for the first time. Like, I don't want to sound like a baby about it, but like, you guys know being a dad for the first year, it's tough tomorrow. You're just exposed to things that you just never used to and you don't know how to deal with it. And it's tough to like come in with the same attitude every single time.

And I've tried so hard to leave it outside the room and you normally do start off that way, but I've noticed like I have a shorter fuse and you never, like, I try so hard to like walk into like, all right, nobody should know in this room that I'm ha I'm in a bad place right now. Mike said that. Yeah. I'd never want someone to know that I'm in a bad place.

And if I do, I do think that's a mistake that I made. Oh, Dave, you're human. Okay. It's still like, I consider myself a professional. And if I'm going to be a professional coach and you're trying to lead others, guide others, like you have to be the one room that you're the rock that they're standing on.

And I think that's a huge thing that it's a huge responsibility. It's hard to do. It really is. And

[00:15:49] Mike DelaTorre: yeah, that's one of those things that comes with experience and just like, you have to practice it on notice if, if there's stuff going on outside of the gym or, know, I'm having a hard, hard day.

Kids were hard, whatever. If I'm in, not like in not a great mood. One of the things I noticed is someone can ask me a question and like, I'm like in my head, I'm like, why did you ask me that question? Dumb question. It was not a dumb question. Like the person legit wants to know. And for me that's become like I've been able to slow things down and identify, all right, man.

You're letting this outside stuff affect you. Just chill. Like you're okay. But I, I also think that that comes with a lot of practice. Yeah.

[00:16:33] David Syvertsen: And yeah. And practicing experience includes mistakes. Yeah, sure. Next, next mistake. A lot of coaches make is the lack of desire for continuing education.

Like you get that , you're done for five years until you have three notes and I'll spend another weekend go to my . Hopefully pass the test. Maybe I'll get my L two. When people told me to like always try to pursue further education, especially when I first started coaching or when bison first started, when I had like zero money.

I was like, dude, I'm not spending, 500 bucks on a weekend seminar when I have $900 in my banking. And I was like, I'm not doing that. But I think what is so available to so many people now is quality free material on the internet. And I think it would be, I think it would actually be a huge deal if every coach was forced to.

And it would be an honor code thing that before the day you coach, whether it's the day before, two days before, like you just find half-hour to. Learn more about the movements that you're teaching in that day's workout. So if I know I'm coaching Tuesday, seven, 15 and eight 15, and we have dumbbell, thrusters and rowing.

I'm going to spend 15 minutes just kind of looking at some material online about thrusters and or mobility that I need for thrusters or rowing techniques. And I think a lot of coaches don't do that, dude. And

[00:17:48] Mike DelaTorre: that's the thing it's. Easy to do that. Now we're free and free. Like, on, like I said earlier, man, on Instagram, like catalysts, athletics, juggernaut,

[00:17:57] David Syvertsen: Even cross it now is pumping out some good stuff, dude.

Yeah. Oh yeah. For sure. With the new leadership, they're putting out some good social media material. It's really nice to

[00:18:04] Mike DelaTorre: see. Yeah. Yeah. So there's really no excuse for not for not doing that. Like. I think about all the times that I would just be on Instagram, just like scrolling, like an idiot, like looking at stupid stuff.

You're wasting time, wasting time, but like, you can really use that time now to learn. And all it takes is like even just five minutes. Really. There's so much good

[00:18:24] David Syvertsen: info out

[00:18:25] Sam Rhee: there. Yeah. I think some of it is not just technique related, but. Relating to people related, like for example I listened to a lot of podcasts and some of it is technique related, like, beyond the whiteboard.

Very, not random with Petra who you mentioned. And Adrian Bosman, they do a lot and they had a coach on who specializes in coaching obese and. Like injured or, basically really sick or, debilitated athletes. And not that we have, like, that's something that we have a lot of, but it made me think about, applying some of those techniques about how to approach those, those types of athletes.

These are athletes that, are really scared of. Fitness or a gym or, any of this. And it's like, how do you talk to someone or approach it to someone who is very resistant? To this sort of stuff, who, who has, who's scared and, just relating to people, you can apply a lot of what you learned just outside of the gym to becoming a better coach.

So, continuing education means thinking about your role as a coach and then everything else you've learned outside of it and just continually.

[00:19:34] David Syvertsen: Putting it in there. That's a good point, dude, for

[00:19:35] Mike DelaTorre: sure. Yeah. I I got into there, there was a philosopher called, named Alan Watts and I've gotten like really into his books and that's one of the, like a lot of the stuff that he talks about.

I, I apply into coaching, like making connections with people realizing that like, even though things might not be going great, like outside of the gym, like everything's a balance, right? So like this can be like the good stuff that offsets that kind of stuff, say, yeah, dude, you're right.

Like your source material. Doesn't just have to be technical stuff. Like making those relationships with people and finding out ways to connect with someone is super important because we're all different personalities here.

[00:20:17] David Syvertsen: Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. The next two that we can tie together it's playing favorite.

And treating it like your social circle. All right. So obviously when you're a coach, you are, it's like, you're not a dictator. You are, you're trying to be there, you're serve, but you're also, you want to create a fun environment to work in. At the end of the day, right? This place is a business and, we need people coming here and paying to keep the place open, support us, all that good stuff.

Right. So you need to have an entertainment factor. Right. Like, people do need to have some fun when they come here. If you never have fun coming here, I think you're, at some point you're going to be out. You do have some people that are like workout, fire breathers that are just here for the wad and they go home, which is fine.

But I'll tell you what, if you really took a, an honest poll of a lot of people. I think a huge reason why the majority of our members come here is to be around some other people that they like being around. And that's fun. We spend a lot of our time at work. And a lot of people typically don't like their coworkers or they don't like their job, or, they're just so busy and stressed out.

They want to come here and be able to have fun, but also improve their health and fitness. So you have that. And, but a coach, they do, they can facilitate that a little bit, but it's not their social service. And this is really hard to do because I have some friends that take my classes. Right. And so you guys do as well, and yeah, I want to go over to them and hang out and talk to them and like, talk about stuff that's outside of the gym, but that can't be the focus.

And if you do that all the time, it's, it's going to give a really bad vibe to other people in the class. Yeah. I, I, I agree.

[00:21:51] Mike DelaTorre: And that's where, especially, I feel with CrossFit, it's a unique. Unique place of coaching because the community aspect is really, really important. Right? So you make really good bonds and friendships with people.

You know what I mean? I met my wife through CrossFit. Right. So were you coaching her? I was, I was, I was coaching her. Yeah. But like, you also have to have that balance of man. I can't just hang out with, like Dave or Sam, if you guys are in class, I can't just like, hang out with you guys and talking about like football and shit, like the whole time, like there's, there is a responsibility.

So that, yeah, that's definitely been a struggle, especially when I was a younger coach, just, not just not gravitating towards

[00:22:31] David Syvertsen: your friends at the end of the day. This is. Oh sure. It's it really is a fun job. I've had a big boy job and I've had the job where I wear sweatpants to work everyday.

Right. And like, when I went to work as a, as a broker, like I never really had fun. There were fun moments, just like, there's always going to be fun moments, but it wasn't a fun job. It was a cool job, but it was not fun. And here, like, I do have fun most of the time I'm here, but I'm not, I don't come here to have fun.

If that makes sense. Yeah.

[00:22:59] Sam Rhee: What do you think about athletes? I think some of them would complain or I would hear saying, so-and-so coach always just pay so much attention to that person. Yeah. And they're always working on their form or helping them out and I'm in the corner. I don't even get a, whatever, like one comment or why did they put that person up on the front? And I'm all the way back in Siberia. Like, listen, I'm telling you,

[00:23:24] David Syvertsen: I know it. I know it.

[00:23:25] Sam Rhee: And so how do you deal? Because I mean, I personally don't have enough. Experience to really sort of deal with it. But when you're a long-term coach, there are athletes that are extremely sensitive to that sort of thing.

[00:23:40] Mike DelaTorre: So a couple of things, number one personally, when I put people in zones, I just go either an alphabet alphabetical order or reverse alphabetical order. I'm just like, all right, awesome. Sometimes I'll do that.

[00:23:54] Sam Rhee: I'm going to use that actually. That's a good one. Yeah.

[00:23:56] Mike DelaTorre: Yeah. So I do like girls on one side boys on the other side, sometimes I will experiment.

I'm like, all right, man, I'm going to put so-and-so next it's so-and-so. Cause I think they'll be they'll push each other really good. Right. When it comes to, I know obviously sometimes we're at the mercy of the pull up bar that's high, low, high, low bar. When it comes to. Focusing on someone versus not focusing as much on another person, two things.

Number one, like, sometimes I know that I can do a better job, like circulating through class. I definitely spent so much time in this zone. I should've gone like in that back corner more. So there's that for sure. Like there's sometimes as coaches, man, like, we'll, we'll kinda miss it a little bit.

Yep. But then also there's people that are newer or people that are maybe they're, dealing with some sort of limitation that we have to make sure we pay attention to. So they might get the extra attention because if you're a newer person, if you have say like a shoulder thing going on or a knee thing going on, you gotta make sure you pay attention to.

They'll take the priority and then, I'll, I'll circulate around. Yeah. So,

[00:24:56] David Syvertsen: yeah. So I'm going to write this one down in my head and bring this back up when we started talking about mistakes athletes make, but again, humility. I have been told this before that I favor certain athletes that are, it's like the, the competitors, right.

Like, and the good ones, the good ones. Right. And like the find good. Okay. Like what does good mean? Right. But anyway, the. And I've been told that. And I get, I can take that as like, all right. You know what, like, maybe I do need to, the funny part is though. Wait, am I bashing athletes? Now again, I'm going to say, this is going to say like iPad, those athletes, like people told me, like, I, I help out Ryan rack lift too much, one time and Radcliffe.

And I talked one time, Phil, you think about them a lot, not in a weird way from a previous episode. And he moves, like, I actually remember telling him, I was like, man, I have a hard time coaching you because you do everything so well. Like, I don't have much for you. He, I remember he came up to me, he's like, Hey, can you watch these clean and jerks?

And I'm like, I couldn't find anything. I was like, ah, you could probably finish your, pull a bit. You're over the bar instead of behind the bar. But like, that's it. He goes, all right. And he works on it and it it's. I actually, I just don't, I don't think I've gone down that path of, I am favored toward the sport.

I do like people that compete in the sport, I like coaching them, but it's because I like the sport. It's not because I like coaching them personally more. And I think a lot of athletes just take everything. So personally here, because, they're, they're just always looking for reasons to, either like, critique or I'm not getting better at this because of someone else.

Right? Like that's always. But I will say that I gravitate more towards people and this is not a good thing. This is a mistake. I gravitate more towards people that are very ambitious with their goals. Like they're very intentional what they work with, the way the workout. So then when, when they're really intentional, like I want to give them a lot of details, right?

Like the other day, I coach in a way where, like, I try to give a lot of details. Like how, how many reps per second are you going to get, if you're going to finish in this time, we did this workout, this crazy workout. The other day where I wrote down on the whiteboard, I said, if you guys want to sub 13 minute time, you need to be 21 reps per minute in this workout.

If you want 18 minute time, you need to be 17 reps per minute, something like that. Right? When people take that in and they're like, start asking questions about it. Like I do gravitate towards that kind of athlete and that's a mistake. Right. But they are also the ones that need more attention because they're so detail oriented.

Right. And there are some athletes that they are, they've been here for years. They're obviously not detail oriented. So if I see them doing something wrong or unsafe, then yeah. But if I see them arrested. 30 seconds instead of 15 seconds in between says like, I'm not going to go critique them because I know they don't really care that much.

They're just there for the worker. They don't care if their time was 14 or 18, they're just there to workout. They go home and that's it. And I respect that a lot. So I do think that a coach like myself, that I do feel like I coached the sport a lot. And I do coach, obviously the fitness side of it. I can come across as someone that is more favored towards the sport in my defense.

I feel like I'm on trial right now in my defense that the, at the sport of it does, it needs more detail. I will say.

[00:28:10] Sam Rhee: You definitely pay more attention to, in my opinion, yeah, to the sport oriented athletes. Yeah. I will tell you, I don't mind personally, because I know like, I would hate Ryan Radcliffe from listening to you, except I know Ryan Radcliffe.

Right, right, right. And the guy would never seek out attention or try to pull more towards him. Well, yeah. I have seen him when you coach him and he's like, all right, this is the way I'm going to approach workout. I'm going to split this. I'm going to try to do this on broken. Right. I'm going to try to finish this by this round this round, by this time and see if I can hang on.

Right. And you're talking to him, he's like, yeah, that sounds pretty good. Or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. That's great because you know what I'm going to do. I'm not going to look at the clock the entire time. I'm just going to go by how hard I can go. Right. When I look up, that's what I did. That's what your time.

And that's, that's it. I'm not, if I try to split my time, the way Ryan is, I'm going to die.

[00:29:06] David Syvertsen: Yeah. And also if I came up to mid workout, I'm like Sam, you're 14 seconds behind Sam you're 19 seconds. You know what I would say? Fuck off. That would be exactly what I would do. So this is what I'm saying. It's like the, and this is going to come back up again on the athletes side of this, because it's, it's a hard line to draw and I'm not saying I haven't.

But I do, I will always make the effort and every coach should do this to get to every person in the class. At some point, whether you have 22 people in class or you have six, yes. You gotta get to every person. And are you always going to have like, don't fake a cue either. Don't be like Britt Arsi gives me a hard time all the time.

She came into class yesterday. It's like the first time I've seen her in class and I saw her name up there. I was like, yeah, she did awesome. And she always like, would make fun of me for a second. Cause I'm always like on the elbows. I always talk about other people's elbows when they front squat, when they thrust her, I'm like, get your elbows up.

So I would always say elbows and she goes like, I feel like you just say that when you don't know what to say. And I was like, try getting your albums up consistently, then I'll stop saying,

[00:30:08] Mike DelaTorre: well, dude, I mean, like there's also one of the things I used to do. I am sh you guys probably did the same thing when you first started coaching.

I was like you over cue someone, you tell them a million things, and then they freeze. So like one of the things that I've learned through, just experiences, like sometimes less is more where you have to let a person practice the movement before they get it down, so. Really like nitpicking to the point where you're giving a cue, like every, like, two seconds.

Yeah. Number one, that's probably going to annoy them. I know they would annoy me. And then secondly, there's only so much of that, right.

[00:30:47] David Syvertsen: You're not helping, you're not helping you helping. Yeah. And we had, we had a new member in yesterday's class two. I had two new members, like literally I think their first or second real class, they just got out of beginner back and back to back classes.

And the workout yesterday was hand cleans. With running. And step-ups not a complicated workout because the hand clean, like I tell the class, like it's not a high school movement, but you know what, for someone that's ever done it before, it's a high school movement. Absolutely. Right. So like, again, mistake shouldn't have said that with new people in class, if I had a class full of like veterans and like, all right, guys, if you've been doing cross for two years, like you should not have do a hang clean by now.

Right. So I go over to her and this brought me, that brought me to that. Your comment brought me to that story is. There was like five things she's doing wrong and you're in your head. You're like, all right, you gotta do this and this and this, but you're like, all right, what's the F like order of operations with cues.

Like, what's the first thing we got to make sure you're doing. And then we'll work on like your wrist and your elbows, then we'll work on your. And my biggest thing with the hand clean is like, just make yourself as tall, as possible as you're coming to like jump as high as you can, especially when it's a lightweight and it doesn't seem dangerous.

Like that's like, in my opinion, that's the first thing someone's going to learn is stop trying to curl it up. It's going to jump, jump. Right. And then once you get that, okay. Knuckles down, knuckles down. So that kind of stuff. Right. If I, if I went over and said four different things at once, she'd be like, you're not helping.

No. Yeah. I dunno. I

[00:32:08] Sam Rhee: usually Try to at least focus a little bit. And I'm so beginner, but it doesn't really matter. I try to focus even because the quiet ones who don't say anything, they're really pretty good. Like we have a bunch of them. They're quiet. They do all their work. They, they move pretty well.

I do try. At least say something before they leave to each of them. Sometimes it's just, I notice, your overhead squat mobility is really good. Yeah. Just something like that. Yeah. Or, sometimes your overhead squat, like sometimes you hit some like, but then others, like your first two.

Less. And then you seem to go deeper every time. Like I'll S I'll try to say a little something so that they know that it's not just, Ignoring you try to put a touch point on, on at least all of them, because people are so sensitive and I don't think most of them realize, Hey, listen, you have a newbie.

You have to spend like 90% of your time helping that person or that class is so huge. And you got like all this stuff that you have to manage and they don't notice. They just noticed me. Right.

[00:33:11] David Syvertsen: We're all here. Like when we come to work out, we're here for ourselves. Right? So.

[00:33:14] Sam Rhee: So just trying to help with that can sometimes help a little

[00:33:18] David Syvertsen: bit for sure.

Yeah. I just had a thought on that topic. It just left my mind. I'll go onto the next one. And

[00:33:23] Sam Rhee: and by the way, I do like when you coach me with, but not on a daily one, because most of those I'm just sort of grinding on my own, but I will tell you anytime I'm doing something high stakes. Yeah. I really do need

[00:33:34] David Syvertsen: to hear you in my mind.

Honestly, Sam, like this is it it's like, I know that, right. And I know like on certain days, like when the open comes around or certain workout that I know you really care about, like, this is another thing about being a professional coach is like, you're going to have to know when to put your foot on the, on someone else's.

Yeah. And tell him to, you got to go. It just can't be all the time. Right. And that's another thing with like, athletes, like you gotta, just gotta stay out of, I'm going to quote, Kathleen is you got to stay in your lane, and it's like, if a coach is working with someone else, like you just don't know.

What's going on there. You don't know what they talked about last night. You don't know what that talked about two days ago and you're probably biased towards yourself anyway. So it's you just, but when I coach Sam, like I made a comment to him yesterday about his 2 0 5 hang cleans, like we're the best, some of the best I've seen.

And I think this is what I was going to say. Like, I had a conversation with you and I asked you questions, right? I think a lot of coaches make the mistake. They never ask questions. Yes. I really think like if you ever want to come across. Understanding humble and a quality coach. Like, just note, how often do you ask someone a question about their workout?

Like Sam, would you do different tailor? Like those cleans look really good and you're talking, I, I was really thinking about my squat clean. All right. So like that might help me help somebody else out. Yeah. But it also just gets like the connection between Sam and I. So when I coach Sam in 11 weeks from now, and he's struggling on his two 15 power clean, I'm like, yo Sam, remember.

But just say that, and then that might click something in his head, but you don't find that out by asking questions. And again, are you a dictator or not a dictator? Doesn't ask questions, right? A dictator. Is this more barking out instructions? I think you should put thought into how many questions you're asking other people.

[00:35:13] Mike DelaTorre: That's about like, when I'm one of the questions I'll ask someone is how does that feel? Like if I can see that they're doing something a little bit off, I'm like, all right, how does that feel? And, say, oh, it doesn't feel great. Like most of them say they're doing clean, they're cashing it low, give them, give them a cue corrected all of a sudden they're cashing, the clean properly.

I'm like, all right, cool. Now, how does that feel? And like, oh, I feel so much better. Like sometimes it takes that, that question for, for it to click in their head, so asking questions to.

[00:35:39] David Syvertsen: Another one, this is my last one. I don't know if you guys have any others, but the last one I had for coaches is lacking professionalism and that this could be like an umbrella over what we've already talked about, but self critique here on professionalism, I don't really care.

Like how good you look when you coach, like if you dress up or not, like, you want you to look like you're there at night, not look like a slob. Right. But I often have to not, I have to work out before I coach sometimes and I have. Like w finishing my workout three minutes before class starts and I'm dripping in sweat.

It's not a professional look, it's not, and in my head I'll rationalize it saying like, well, I'm so busy. And like, I have to, I have to work out in this window. And this year, like I've had conversations with both of you guys about this. Like I'm going to be on the selfish side of this year with my training.

And if that means, but I've been doing this for years. Right. And I had a conversation with Elizabeth. Like literally a few nights ago, I was like, I'm really trying to get that out. Like I worked out this morning before I coached seven and I was like, I have to be done by 6 45. And that gives me 10 minutes to like chill, put new clothes on.

And in the summer it's really tough because I just sweat all the time. I'm sweating right now. And like, I hate like, just that feeling of like, my shirt is filling with sweat as I'm talking about to the workout and you also should not be out of breath. Well, I like talking about the workout, right? And like, think about this.

Like, most people don't care in our gym, my opinion. That's true. But think about someone that's new. Like if I went to a gym and I dropped in and the coach was dripping in sweat talking about the workout, I would have a bad look on that gym. That's a good point, yeah. I saw what do you guys think about that?

Just being a professional

[00:37:12] Mike DelaTorre: coach. I mean, that was a big thing. Like this morning, I partnered up with Matt L and I told him like, man, I have to coach the eight, 15 and nine 30. And I had to make sure that I have like some brain cells left. So I'm not going to go full sand. It's like, it's such a unique job though, because part of our job and to be involved is to be involved.

Yeah, dude, so, but you're right. There is that measure of professionalism where like, you, you don't want to look like a slob, I. With, with some people, just some people I've met in my life, they, they don't look at my, they don't look at our profession as like a real profession.

Right. Which I'm like, honestly, like, whatever fuck you to here. But it does bother me a little bit. Yeah. It bothers me a little bit. So like, if I can look as, as like professionals possibles, like groomed as possible, I guess, even if I do grow a big beard sometimes it, it just. It definitely lends an air of respectability.

Yeah, yeah. Which is important. Yeah.

[00:38:13] David Syvertsen: I mean,

[00:38:14] Sam Rhee: we're representing bison. Yes. That's the thing. And when we're coaches, you have to think that, and it's, for me, it's most important when I'm doing on-ramp and I've done a fair amount of OnRamp more than anything else. And I always make sure I have a shirt that says CrossFit Bison I'm not wearing get ripped or go home or something stupid, right? Like, buck furpees or something. So, I will always know that I am their first contact as a bison coach. A lot

[00:38:40] David Syvertsen: of times that's a big deal. And

[00:38:42] Sam Rhee: so I, I talk to them like a professional. I, I am representing cross. They've never had CrossFit before.

Most of them, I say, what's your experience? The CrossFit is like, this is the first time. So to me, if I'm not representing well, I might turn that person off of CrossFit forever. And that will be awful. I mean, we believe in this methodology, we will, we believe in this and I ha like, listen, when I see Dave, he changed it, but I know Dave, like that's not a problem.

And most people also understand that. Yeah.

[00:39:13] David Syvertsen: But there are some that don't. Yeah.

[00:39:15] Sam Rhee: And so, it's I do remember one time I took a class and then I did do it on wrap and I felt really, I, even though I changed and everything, I didn't feel like really, like I was presenting my best. Right. And,

[00:39:27] David Syvertsen: But I'll tell you what, I mean, like th this is where it's not a big deal, right.

It's like viewed as not a big deal, but I'm huge on this. Like, just mantra for myself. If you constantly find yourself saying it's not that big, you're just, you're dying a slow death. And like, it could just be like, took the one little inch, one little it's like, almost like getting hurt, right?

Like when someone hurts their shoulder, it wasn't the workout that hurt your shoulder. When it, when it actually got hurt, it was the thousands and thousands and thousands of things that weren't a big deal, whether it was your food, your sleep, how you worked out, how you move that eventually it went. Right.

And I think that's something you just always keep in the back of your head. Like yes. In the moment, it's not a big. If I'm a little, like really sweaty at the start of work or out of breath. Right. But it it's just like another negative mark that you just, if you get a crew, too many of those negatives eventually is going to be a big deal.

[00:40:10] Sam Rhee: I just think I'm not representing myself. I'm representing everyone else around here.

[00:40:14] David Syvertsen: Yeah. That's a really good point. Do you guys have any other, I actually have one more that's popped into my head, but do you guys have any others, like just mistakes that you've made or things that you think other coaches currently make?

Yeah, so logistics, I think, I think a lot of code our gym does a really good job of this. So there's no one from our gym that I don't think any of our coaches really think about this because I get questions all the time. Like if I have a row in workout, Mike will hit me up 18 hours before the class. I was like, yo, how many rowers do we currently have?

They're like working right now. We as a few that aren't don't work or some that are inconsistent. And we'll, we'll talk about it and we'll talk, we'll break workouts down sometimes. Like, Hey man, Yeah, I'll start to group two at the two minute mark and start this group at the format and then make sure you have these guys running at once and make sure, next Wednesday is workout is a huge logistic workout.

There's going to be a rope climbs in it. We have six ropes, and we're not hanging up 10 more rows before Wednesday. So if you have a class of 22 people, there's three different workouts in that class. They're all seven minutes long, I think. And one of them has road climbs and pushups, right? So you just to go back and forth, you get your, you need to plan this stuff out way before the class starts sued.

For sure. And if, again, people will know if you did not, right. If you're sitting there and there's six ropes and there's 11 people that want to use the ropes and you just say, all right guys, 3, 2, 1, go. I have to share a rope with someone that we're going back and going back and forth between pushups in a row line, that's going to throw off my workout.

And some cases, the people got to suck it up. But if the coach is able to you start one people, some people on that workout, and then they switched during the three minute rest. And then, so you always have your own rope. And it's a very simple thing to do, but if you're not thinking about logistics as a coach, And I think you're doing it wrong.

Oh, dude, for sure.

[00:41:54] Mike DelaTorre: Because that lends to the the class experience, right? Like you want everyone to have fun. Yeah. They want everyone to ha to have fun, to have a great workout. Yeah. And if that's off, especially if you have a big group of people do it. If that's off, it's going to throw everything off.

[00:42:08] David Syvertsen: My spins.

I, the reason I'm like that now I'm so OCD about that stuff. It's probably like, probably the one thing I'm really OCD about is just making sure is I've been, even at Hoboken, I remember there was a lot of workouts. I'm like, dude, this is not working. Like we, I can't get a workout in because I'm waiting for these three people to get off the row or I can't get on a rope climb.

So I have to go change the movement, even though I came in to do the road climb today, and it's like, it sounds so. Like, not like not a big deal, but it's, I'm a paying member. Right. And I should be getting what I'm told I get to get by coming in. It's true. Th th you know,

[00:42:41] Sam Rhee: I don't know if we're going to talk about our own weaknesses or our own issues, but that, I just coached a group class or, I mean, a partner class, a Saturday class, which I hadn't done in a really, really long time.

And the, my, If you've done it a long time, there are things that are automatic. Yes. And for me, the amount of conscious brain power, I needed to deal with logistics. Yeah. Like I almost felt my brain was going to fry. So the first was dealing with figuring out partners. And I was like, even Dave was helping me and he's like, keep checking, keep checking right up until the time of the class.

Yeah. People should be pretty good and then, yup, sure enough. Four people dropped like who like so rude as to do that. And if you're an athlete, it's okay. I don't hold it against you. I know who you are, but I don't hold it against you. I hold it.

And, and then I was like, okay, so now rig. Low bar high bar, where am I going? And then it was like, okay, now I had this warmer prepped, but you know, what, how many PVC pipes do I should

I'd use green bands? Like what time will it take for them to frigging get that and bring it back? Like, how can I make it more efficient? Am I going to what movements are going to have them work out?

Which it will be, I mean, warmup with which will make it faster, but still get them warmed up for the movements and they want, and fortunately that WOD wasn't too complicated. Right? So it wasn't that I had to deal with that so much. Yeah. All of that at the same time, as you're like getting everyone hooked up and I will tell you, the athletes were really great for the classes.

So most of them moved on auto. Yup. And they know what they're doing and they know how to scale weights or figure out all this stuff, which was really good. I only had a couple of beginners that I had to deal with. Like one basically. So that was okay.

But that's, when you're experienced. It becomes second nature, just like everything else at your work. Right. There's

[00:44:31] David Syvertsen: a lot of things that forming plastic surgery for honestly, that's how

[00:44:34] Sam Rhee: I thought about it because there's some operations that if I didn't, you do enough times, like you can. This amount and you'll still be good.

Right. And, but when you're doing something and you're learning it, the amount of prep. Yeah. Especially like you go to a new hospital for example. And you're like, okay, I don't know where the, or I don't know how far the recovery room is from this. I don't know, like who's going to be staffing. Like, so when I first started, I would go to the hospitals the day before and be like, Hey, I'm Sam Rhee.

You don't know me, but like, who's working tomorrow and blah, blah, blah. And you get all that stuff set up because it's so inefficient when you're not doing it often. Yeah. And and that's the same with coaching and you guys make it look so seamless. I mean, I've been to a 24 person Saturday, Saturday, and it, it looks seamless. I mean, listen, it's still a little chaotic because athletes don't listen to what you

[00:45:26] David Syvertsen: do. Yeah. Time is coming. You take it,

[00:45:30] Sam Rhee: take it, you take it for granted. You take it for granted as an athlete. And then when you're on the other side, you're like, wow, this takes a lot of, a lot of practice to make it go smooth.

Yeah. Which

[00:45:40] David Syvertsen: I'm impressed. Yeah. No, that's, that's a huge, huge thanks for that, Sam, because that's a, it's a huge part of the coaching at a busy gym, and busy classes, busy back to back classes. And that it's, again, you can tell if someone either just hasn't had the experience. And also if they just didn't put time into it, like if we didn't like, and that's part of the reason why we do pick partners, like I know some people aren't wild about it.

It's not changing, we're always going to pick your partners on a Saturday and That's a big part of it, like if, especially if there's like a double dumbbell workout, like I can't have you, I can't have every pair getting four dumbbells. We don't have enough. Right. Right. And that's a, this is a big part of it.

And like, I don't think people understand that or think about it that often when they get mad about their partner. So, that's another topic that's coming up. The last logistic thing I'll have. And I think we could wrap it up. Sounds like is the volume and that what you coach with, like, you gotta be loud.

Oh dude. Especially in a big gym like this, and I'll tell you what, you got to turn down the music when your coat, like, when you're talking and you got to turn off the fans and it's like, I like run to the fans and, in between classes, sometimes I'm like, I'm telling you, it throws you off. Like even like.

Was getting, he worked out with the seven this morning and coach 15. And I did not keep things on. We ended like seven, like a few minutes too late. So he had like, had to like, kind of put himself in. Get the pairs written on the board for a big class. So he started coaching the class and I had noticed that the fan was on in the corner.

And like I sprint back there as he's like starting to do the workout talk and I turned it off and it makes a huge difference. But I think some coaches are very unaware because they can hear themselves and they know the three people, but there's like in our gen you could be a hundred feet away from the coach.

And if there's any background noise, whether it's music or fan they're not going to hear you, so if you're trying to coach them knocking it, they're not going to hear you. And that's the coaches job. So I just wanted to throw that in there. Yeah. All right, so that's the that's the mistake episode with coaches, athletes? Your time is coming.