S01E25 - GYM CULTURE

Our next episode is again with guest Mike DelaTorre @coachmiked, fellow coach @crossfitbison. One critical aspect about a gym is it's CULTURE. In a community-driven gym culture, people not only want to make a difference in their own lives but also in the lives of others. What can help to foster a great culture or conversely, damage a gym culture?

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S01E25 GYM CULTURE TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: All right. Welcome back to the HerdFit podcast. We are here with the final episode with coach Mike DelaTorre. I am coach David Syvertsen. I'm next to Dr. Sam Rhee two seats to my right. We've got, we've had dived into a few different topics with Mike. Some heavier than others. We want this one to be a little bit more lighthearted, but it's also very important and it revolves around the importance of culture.

And I'm talking about gym culture. All right. We're not going to talk about anything. Outside world there's like the, the, every CrossFit has a culture and some are good. Some are bad, but at the end of the day, it's subjective and it really revolves around what the. First what the owners want and then what the coaches want and then what the athletes want, what do they want their culture to be?

And that's what they aim for. And bison over the past, we're almost eight years in now. Has it culture and these guys literally just asked me what is Bisons culture? And I was like, I don't know. It's it's hard to put into words. I'm going to try my best. I think it's a gym that supplies the outlet that they need, whether they're going for intense, competitive CrossFit performance related CrossFit, just health in general, a healthier lifestyle that so that they can feel better day to day and a place where community is built.

And so to wrap that up, it's a place for everyone. But it's not the. It's a place that everyone should try, but it's not the place for everyone. And, but I think that we fill all three voids there at a really high level. I think that we help people that want to perform people that want help their lifestyle and people that want to meet new like-minded individuals.

And that's what we do really well. And what do you guys think about that? You better agree?

[00:01:40] Mike DelaTorre: No, I, yeah, I, I definitely agree. And, I've been to a bunch of gyms, since I started coaching and I tell David this all the time, like this is a special place, and for the first, honestly for the first time in nine years whenever I'm here. I feel like it's home, which is great. And not every gym, is like this. Sometimes you get gyms at the cater to, the high-end athletes and then, your normal everyday CrossFitter they kind of feel like they're down by the wayside or there's gyms out there that are maybe like too regular for some people.

And maybe the high, the higher level athletes don't get as much attention as they need to advance. Right. Like I think that this gym has a great mix of all three which is why it's such a friendly place in such a motivating place to be.

[00:02:31] Sam Rhee: Our pre-talk, I was thinking about it and definitely there are a lot of very high performing individuals here.

There are people here that bar none hold their own against anyone else out there. I mean, not like professional, but I'm talking about you go to any other CrossFit gym and I would say, wow, we have people that would go toe to toe or beyond where most CrossFit gyms are. But I can also think of so many people that are here to get their sweat on and hang out with their friends, which is great.

I also know a number of people here who just come here to get fitter and then may not be really high level. Maybe they're, just starting and yet they are really comfortable coming in, working out for an hour, maybe every day, maybe three or four times a week, and then going home. And that's the extent of their participation here.

And that is totally fine. I don't think we pu anyone on any level and we don't force people to drink the Kool-Aid and be like, no, you're, I mean, other than the open yeah. Which we can talk about, but I think that regardless of what your level is, you should be participating in the open, even if you just show up for an hour every day and have no other interests. Everyone feels comfortable, we don't push anything on anyone unless they want it.

I think the thing that we aren't and this was funny because someone who told me this, I can't remember, but someone showed up to the gym and after a couple classes they left because they didn't think they were going to hook up with anyone or date anyone or meet someone like that. And yeah. Okay. I'll buy that. I mean, we're in north Bergen county, it's this is not Hoboken or, or downtown Manhattan, right. Where you have a super young demo. I mean, we have young people here, young adults, but the mix is what it is.

Right. So I don't know. That's sort of where I was thinking about it when I was thinking about culture and bison and I've seen it evolve. It has changed over over the five or some years or six years, whatever that I've been here.

[00:04:38] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Talk about that. We'll get into what has changed. Why has changed? Is it a good change? Is that a bad change? I mean, time will tell right time to how's everything.

[00:04:46] Sam Rhee: And I would say that you've actually cultivated, you've you have active, not actively or passively sort of guided what you think is

[00:04:54] David Syvertsen: Yeah. And I would always say like, from the date, like when you open up a gym, like you're just praying someone walks in the door with a credit card. Right. So that you can keep the place open and get this thing going. Right. But once you get some momentum, like you do, you have to make a decision. At some point, we've had several meetings with, Chris and I coaches in ourselves, right.

Like. Should we separate, should we get a, another gym or get another space that we can have a different room? So competitors can do their thing away from the rest of the, of the gym. And then, more often than not that doesn't work. And I've always thought like they can be blended together as long as the leadership in the gym is on the same page.

All right. So leadership in the gym to me is not just the owners and it's not just the coaches, right. Leadership to me is those groups of people, but also some key members that have been here for a long time. I've you Aaron, as, as a leader in our gym and he's, he's quiet. Right? Which is ironic.

He's a pastor. So he talks for a living, right. But he's a quiet presence at bison. No, he's not, he's never the loudest in the room. He rarely talks trash unless it's, to me only on double under day he's you can't do anything else better than me, but anyway, But what he does, Aaron is a really good example.

Like he here, he wants to come here and on certain days he wants to be, the score he wants to get out and he wants to have his time. He wants to really get after it. He wants to beat me in certain workouts. Right. But he's here really just to be part of the group and feel like he's healthy. Right.

And I've always thought that it's a good example, that you don't need to label yourself a competitor. You don't need extra programming or your own programming or your own coach, or need to do 18 workouts a week to be considered very good at CrossFit. And you're talking to someone that has a little side business, that's not fancy of people that want to compete and do extra work.

So like, I'm literally, I talk people out of it all the time. I was like, I really don't think you need it for the, for what your goals are. Like I get the goal all the time from the people. I want to be top 10% so I can make the quarter final. Cool. You don't need extra programming. You don't right.

And you might feel like you do because everyone always feels like they need more. They need more. I want to really get after it. I'm like, well, you need to build tolerance for it, but you also need to get really good at the basics. And then we go from there. Now, if we had a gym that was separated, like competitors over here, normal members over here, it would, it would really take away from what we are right now, because it would make people resent the others.

And that was one thing when we started, I wanted to, I wanted to prove, and I think we've done it that you can intertwine the two you can intertwine. And fitness as if you have responsible people in the front out, if you got, if we had half, our coaches agreed and half our coaches did not agree, and they're kind of like whispering and talking shit and like, being immature about that and like what talking about either side, the competitors are not competitive side that would slowly kind of kill, kill the brand.

[00:07:46] Mike DelaTorre: Yeah, I agree. Having competitors and quote unquote competitors and quote unquote your general athlete in the same class do , they feed off of each, we feed off of each other. Right. And, and that's a super important thing to just have, is to have that unity because there I've have experienced that, where there, I've been at a gym where there was a separate competitor program and it definitely does.

It breeds too. It can breed two things. Number one, that sense of the elitism, which, just it's a pain in the ass to deal with. And then the second thing is resentment amongst like, your general quote-unquote general population members, like you don't want to make them feel like crap.

[00:08:23] Sam Rhee: The trickle down effect can't be understated in terms of having really good athletes. Anyone else? Yeah, because for a couple of things, one is, I would say one of the things about Bisons culture, it is performance oriented. Yes. And performance oriented is good for whatever level you're at, just because you're like, I'm here to be healthy, doesn't mean you should just do your workout and go home like a planet fitness. It means pushing yourself to whatever your potential is and pushing yourself to that potential. That attitude and that mindset is the same, whether you're a very high performing athlete or you're in six months or a year.

And you're just learning some of this stuff, like you should be performance oriented. How else are you going to get more fit? You can't just say, all right, I'm going to do. My P Peloton workouts this week, and I'm good, no, improving yourself, being uncomfortable, pushing your limits is what you need to do.

And that's what you do at a performance oriented environment. When you take the people who are most highly focused on those things out of the picture that culture, that sort of mindset, sort of the thinking about it gets lost. Yeah. And when I see and you don't have to have aspirations to push, like you said, Aaron, one of the quietest guys in the gym, but I know, and because I've worked with him before he likes to push, oh my God, that guy is competitive in his core. And he will push to whatever he has within him. At the end of the day, if it went great, if it didn't go great, he goes home, but did he improve himself?

He absolutely improved himself. And I love working around a guy like that because even though he doesn't show it, even though he's not trash-talking even though listen, that guy is inside trying to beat your ass. And I love that. I love knowing that about him.

[00:10:21] Mike DelaTorre: Yep. And dude lake, having the high level athletes there, there's two things, right.

Like when we talk performance, we're not just talking about like faster times or heavier weights or whatever, moving better as a key thing. So when I have, so, if you guys are in class with me or, if I see, I don't know, like Karen in class with me and I feed off of that because obviously you guys are like pushing away, heavier weight than I would, but you're also moving really well.

So I learn off of that. I learned from that. Right. And if you don't have that type of athlete in class. I feel that the learning is stunted.

[00:10:54] David Syvertsen: Yep, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, if you took away or the past year is the top, if you want to come up with like a ranking system, right. Just say, we don't really have a ranking system here other than the open leaderboards.

Let's say we took away the top 20 athletes. I think the everyone else in the gym would get worse. Oh, absolutely. If they just disappeared, like if I, if we opened up a competitor gym and all 20 went over there, the people here would get worse and they wouldn't care. They would care. I don't care what, like they, they would care that their performance went down.

And I think it's a privilege to have a lot of good athletes here because that helps push you. But I also think those good athletes, it's a privilege to have others around you. So I'll tell you what if I put you in a room by yourself every day and you have to train by yourself. You wouldn't work hard.

I bet you would stop. I bet you quit. And it's a. You need to understand and respect that they're actually helping you out as well. And that, that's like, that's what I want to go for. The culture is it's a mutually beneficial relationship, as long as you're just around good leadership and responsible people.

Right. And I think that's , that's who we attract. Yeah. We had, Kevin, your check has been in the game for a decade. Now. He said you, you got like really good people here. It was something simple, like left his pull grip somewhere, and someone brought him to him and it's just, it's, it's, it's who you attracted, like who you are is who you attract.

And I think as this place gets even. You're, you're going to get even more, contributions from other people that make this place even more special than is already. So how can you contribute to a culture? If someone, we get this question a lot, how can I help? I want to help this place.

How can I help? And, again, like I said, you don't need to be a coach to help this place. You don't need to buy stuff for us to help this place. What do you guys think if someone says, what can I do to help contribute to this culture or improve it?

[00:12:29] Mike DelaTorre: Number one, just be a nice person, just be like nice, when you're in here and we've talked about, everyone has stuff outside of the gym going on, or 5:00 AM, 6:00 AM, it's really early or whatever, but, it's be like a nice person, be a good person.

The good person part, it may, we probably can't help you with, if you're a bad person, then that's on you. But that's first and foremost, and just be like courteous, be courteous to the people around you. I think if you do those two simple things that. It's a start

[00:12:56] David Syvertsen: saying, what are you think?

[00:12:57] Sam Rhee: I think about the people who are, I would say culture leaders, like the athletes that I look up to that I want to emulate, and it's not about performance. A lot of times it's how they carry themselves. It's how they interact with other people. I think qual quality movement. I really respect someone who moves correctly.

I never care so much. I do care about who's top of the leaderboard, when a scan through the whiteboard, but what I really want to look for is the people who move really well and what they're doing, right? I don't really care about the person whose form is jacked and gets a certain time.

I find the people that I know move clean. And to me, they are the touchstones of the gym. And that's how I, when I coach that's what I say. I say, nobody looks at the people who have jacked movements, cause they don't want to be like that. They look at the people who are clean. And one of the people that I've always looked at was, well, now she's gone, Nicole Radcliffe, like bringing cleanest ass movements you've ever saw.

And it looked the same from the front, from the beginning and to the end and

very, very aerobic athlete, just very

repeatable. Right. And so, Nick Squire, same thing. I hate to keep bringing up his name, but I see him a lot at 6:00 AM and

[00:14:10] David Syvertsen: thinks about Nicola weird

[00:14:12] Sam Rhee: way, but I do okay.

You know, you know, I love her attitude. everyone brings something different. And so they're not all the same, but there are certain qualities and factors that I see in people. And I think those are the people that I look at and I'm like, wow, like, yeah, I definitely want to be more like these people.

[00:14:34] David Syvertsen: Yeah. But that, those are like, it again, you can find so many different ways to contribute to a culture and make it better. And we just gave you some of it was personality based. Some of it was actually like how you work, how you work out and how you interact with people after you work out, you go off ground, give some high fives, Kathleen, cheers for people during workouts all the times.

Like, I love that, like all of a sudden it's like, all you hear is music and panting. And all of a sudden you hear Kathleen like start cheering someone on like, as she's doing a muscle up, it's, it's a really cool thing that I think. Again, if you can come in here and just every now and then just put some, someone else before yourself, even though you're here for yourself.

I know that, and that's fine. It goes a long way and it can really have a trickle down effect. How can one ruin a culture? Like how can one make someone buys a bison? A worst place can kind of take a bite out of the momentum. That's been grown over the eight

[00:15:23] Mike DelaTorre: dude, someone that's like constantly negative.

And I feel like we don't have it here, but I've been in other places where like, I, someone will walk into the room and it's like an energy black hole that just sucks the energy out of the place. And, I, so as a coach it's and as an athlete, like maybe because I'm a coach, I'll try to lighten the mood, but that's so hard, man. Like when, if someone walks in and they're just always negative and it's coming, that's an easy way to just bring down.

[00:15:55] Sam Rhee: Yeah, negativity obviously sucks. I don't necessarily even think you have to be a. I was just thinking about it, positive people like still the people that I like.

And I was just thinking, leading by example, we'll show you whether you're a good person for the gym or a bad person. So I think of even the quiet ones who just show up for open gym, they do their own thing. They leave. Jason in the evening is one of the quietest guys you'll ever meet, but just by his example, what he does

[00:16:22] David Syvertsen: watch out for him by the way.

Oh yeah, that guy. He's awesome. He's yeah. And I'm gonna figure some things out and,

[00:16:28] Sam Rhee: and all I can say is, yeah. You can be a good or bad person by the example you lead. For

[00:16:33] David Syvertsen: sure. People see what you do. You don't,

[00:16:36] Sam Rhee: you may not think we see what you do, but the minute you enter that gym and what you do not to , make it creepy.

Like we're

[00:16:44] David Syvertsen: like, like checking the cameras, like,

[00:16:47] Sam Rhee: secretly surveying you, but just know that everyone can tell who you are in a lot of ways by what you do before the workout in the middle of the workout, after the workout,

[00:16:57] David Syvertsen: assume that assume that someone is watching you. Yeah. And that's what you should do,

[00:17:01] Sam Rhee: be your best person.

Right. And I am as guilty of that as anyone else, I just was thinking last last week we were talking about the warm-ups and stuff like that.

I had. The crappiest face.

[00:17:12] David Syvertsen: When you do that, you have, you have like, so I think it's more when you're tired,

[00:17:17] Sam Rhee: tired is resting B face where like, yeah.

And, and who was it? It was jazz across the way. It was looking at me when I had to go and do my Kips or whatever on the warmup. And she just laughed

[00:17:28] David Syvertsen: at me. I look like ruthless

[00:17:32] Sam Rhee: and I was , oh God, So obvious, isn't it? I guess I should really present better. And so in a lot of ways I'm always hugs and smiles after a workout, but I really should walk in and not look like, I'm ready to kill someone beforehand or in the middle of a workout. Sometimes I'll have a really crappy expression on my face. I should hold myself to a higher standard. And I think a lot of people, if they really think about it should think, what is it that I want to project as a person?

Do I want to be the person that looks nasty, acts nasty, right? Like is taking my frustrations out on other people or do I want to be, because a lot of times what you act like or what you project is, who you are. Right, right. Like, I don't know. There are a lot of different ways of sort of expressing that, but you know, you can change yourself just by consciously being the person you want to be, right? Yeah. And, and just thinking about this makes me think, well, there are things that I can do to make myself a better person, a better touchstone, a better example, add to the

[00:18:34] David Syvertsen: culture at the gym. Like I remember reading my I've had two favorite baseball players in my life.

Derek Jeter and Don Mattingly like those, , so Don Mattingly was more of probably until I was like 10, 11, and then Jeter came on and basically like that was like what I grew up, who I grew up watching it. And I remember listening to him talk about when he was a rookie, Don Mattingly told him at spring training when there's no fans there yet, he said, you run from station to station or field to field.

You'd never walk. And JIRA is , there's no one here. And he goes, there might be a kid watching somewhere and he's, just assume someone's always watching you. And he goes you, it's your job. It's your responsibility to be an example, and yeah, I mean, keeping them the tech negativity out like that.

And just assuming someone's watching you at all points when you're in here not talking about anyone outside, when you're in here, as soon as someone's watching you and you're going to, and they're going to emulate you. So that's that I have two ways that I think people can really kind of hurt a culture or something you just try to like really avoid the best you can. And this can actually happen outside the gym more often than in, and it's got. And, look, we, we we're in the business where discussing others is a part of growth and improvement. Like we have to. And we talk about, and members are allowed to do this too.

Like, w when you're really trying to help someone, you got to talk about themselves. So if you, if someone, and we had a situation like this years ago, where someone literally called me out, texted me, called me, he showed up at my house and was like, Hey, I heard you were talking about me, but you know, that game of telephone, it gets misconstrued.

But it, I was very honest. I was like, yeah, I talk about people all the time. And if you don't understand why it's going to easily come across as gossip. And so we need to kind of define the sign of like, what is gossip and what, so I I've. Things as simple as possible to make myself not go overwhelmed gossip to me, is you talking about someone for your own enjoyment or your only it fulfills your stress?

So that's why you're not actually talking about someone to help them. You're talking about someone else to to put them down or to again, fill your own insecurities for your own issues. Right? So when it comes to the gym, I'm not talking about your outside life. I'm talking about to the gym. If you feel like you're constantly talking about other people and you're really not trying to do it from a helpful mindset, then I think that that's a potential culture killer, because if you get a lot of people that do it, and then things get taken out of context, it gets ugly pretty fast.

Yeah.

[00:20:57] Mike DelaTorre: For, for me as, as a coach, like. That's one thing that I'm really thankful for here is I just, I don't really care about people's personal lives, like, unless they're

[00:21:09] David Syvertsen: seeking your help,

[00:21:09] Mike DelaTorre: I'll let you seek my help. Exactly. Exactly. For me, it's like, all right, man, like what's the best way I can help this person, and if there's like, I, yeah, like a personal thing that I can like help with. That's great. But like, I don't want to know like other stuff. I it's great to be oblivious to stuff I feel sometimes for sure. And I, I think as an athlete too as a, as a member, as an athlete of, of bison or another gym just kind of goes back to like, staying in your lane, right?

Just like just knowing who you are as, as a person and knowing like the best way, the most positive way to make an impact, I think is going to help eliminate some of that like gossipy

[00:21:49] David Syvertsen: stuff, avoiding conflict, avoiding

[00:21:51] Sam Rhee: class.

This is a big thing for me. Because I think it's actually a problem at bison.

I think there are people who gossip and it bothers me a great deal. And there, there are people that I love that I, that I consider close friends that I think gossip and it bugs me. Yeah. And I don't say anything about it. What I do do is, is try not to get involved with it or hear it, but I, I can't help, but hear it peripherally and it, it, I think it it's a culture killer, for sure.

Yeah.

[00:22:24] David Syvertsen: I also think it's the culture, like outside of Bisons, what we're in right now, it's just like, I just think talking about other people is so rampant because of social media, like in people's business all the time.

[00:22:35] Sam Rhee: And I really wish that I didn't hear it. And I really wish that. Yeah, I can't control people's actions, so I'm not going to go up to people and say don't cause it, I will never say that I'm never going to tell people what to do.

Right. But the thing that I can do is shut it out. And I will tell you the reason is, is because I react really negatively to it. And the, I am pretty open to pretty much everyone at the gym, me like used to call me the mayor because I'm always like freeing, like being friendly to people.

Like the few people that I have really turned off or shut out are the people that I know have said something really negative about someone close to me. Yeah. To a group of people. Right. And if you do that, your persona non grata in my mind until

[00:23:19] David Syvertsen: until you own up to it and

[00:23:20] Sam Rhee: apologize and make amends in some way, and the other stuff that goes on here and let's face it, interpersonal relationships happen in life that are messy. Right? Yeah. People with other people, people not with other people, people doing this, that, or the other thing, the gym is not the place for that. Yes. Okay. It really isn't. And yet it's brought in all the time.

Yeah. And I, I can't stand it and I really wish, and I think about three or four people, one or two people are persona non grata in my mind at the gym. And it's based solely on this aspect. Right. The people that I love that, that talk about others in a way that, like you said, that the definition is either for their own entertainment or to get a reaction to someone not because they're actively trying to help or do something.

Right. I really wish they would stop because at the end of the day it makes them look what, first of all, less trustworthy are you ever going to talk or really be close to someone who you feel. Could actually be doing that to

[00:24:26] David Syvertsen: you. That's a good talk to

[00:24:27] Sam Rhee: you or others about what you talked to them about.

And then the other thing is it's just, it's, it doesn't help. It's just, it's very hurtful.

[00:24:34] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's what I'm talking about. Gym culture. , we all want this place to do well, not so that we can make money so that it can be here. When we got shut down that this had a really bad impact on a lot of people and some that you guys probably know about some that you guys probably don't know about just conversations I've had this and it wasn't just the people that were being, that we make money off this place it's support our families.

Like that's, it was a scary thought for awhile. , and but people outside of that, like had, they were really hurt by the fact that we weren't here. And just imagine , if this place wasn't here right now, like who you wouldn't know. All the relationships. Just imagine that this place never opened up.

Now imagine that the reason this place is doing well, is the culture. It's not us. It's not the programming, it's the culture. And if the culture gets killed and eventually this place disappears, think about how many lives you're impacting in a negative way. So how are, so you can have a negative impact on the culture.

If you find that you're constantly gossiping about people and things, and that is, our way of saying like you could ruin this place and you could have a negative impact, lot of people, if that's you. Yeah. So it's just something that we should always be cognizant of. 'cause it's a scary thing, in the air, like how quick things can turn.

Oh, dude, for sure. Mike could probably go into that with a couple other places.

[00:25:55] Sam Rhee: And, as coaches, like people share a lot of stuff with you, like a lot of personal stuff a lot. And if they didn't trust you with it, it would ruin the environment and the culture of this gym. That's a good point. And so, I want people, if they want to come to me with something and share something with me, I want them to know. It's between us.

[00:26:15] David Syvertsen: I'm not going to go into my group

[00:26:16] Sam Rhee: chat and say, Hey, guess what? Like, and I've had some amazing conversations with people not about gym stuff about outside gym stuff.

And to me, that's what the culture of across at bison is. If you know someone because they're a quality person, cause you see how they move, what their workouts, like, how they act and you talk to them and you find out more about them. That's awesome. But that only happens right. You really

[00:26:40] David Syvertsen: trust each other like that.

[00:26:41] Mike DelaTorre: That's a personal stuff that like, I'm really, I w I, I don't want to make it seem like a, I don't want to know about people cause you know, like we've talked about , knowing someone, getting to know someone and how they, what affects them. A huge thing. It's like the awkward, weird stuff that I just don't want to know about.

Yeah.

[00:26:57] David Syvertsen: Yep. I know exactly. You're talking about. So supporting others, verse being jealous of others that, in relation to the culture and I'm going to keep it to working out for now and supporting others versus being jealous is to me, is pushing each other while we work out, rather than always competing against.

Like we brought up Aaron earlier, Aaron wants to compete, but he's quiet about it. And he really only cares about just getting a push, but also giving a push to other people. Like I actually, I love it when someone says like, Hey, like I love you can class today. Like it made me push harder. Like that makes me feel as good as anything when it comes like that.

That's a good feeling that I came there or. I worked out with, even if you guys were even my class, like you would push me. I worked out with that, Mike, with Mike on that nasty dumbbell, thruster workout two Fridays ago, it had two 10 minute Amwraps right. Being next to each other, push me. And like, it's a really cool thing to have.

It's really unique to that, we're that, that's us supporting each other, like I support Mike and whatever he wants to do with his life, but like, we're going to keep coaching and bison and what he was trying to do. And he doesn't seem for me, we're always checking in on each other how each other's feeling.

Right. And when we come, when we work out, I'm not trying to beat Mike. Mike's not trying to beat me. So we're showing support by somebody just pushing each other and a workout. Yeah. But if we were to like, just like, and maybe this would be the case back in 2011 or 2012, right. It's like. It's almost like if, if he beat me to work out, I get jealous.

Right. And then it makes me almost like resent him. We have a lot of that in the show. And I think probably every cross, every owner I've talked to, they have a problem with this too, is that some of these people can't get over the fact that they just are always competing with someone and like their eyes are like, just gravitating towards a certain person on the whiteboard.

And if they beat them, they feel good. If they don't beat them, they feel bad. Or that person cheated. Right. Like you're gonna, when it comes to the culture, you should be on daily wads supporting each other. You're trying to push each other. You're not trying to beat each other unless it's like for playful, trash talk.

Right. And at the end of the day, it still doesn't mean. All right. And I, I think that if you, we have so many people in this gym that they would be in better shape right now, if they were not trying to compete with certain people every single day, I guess, or they'd still be here and they wouldn't have, a ripped up body.

Yeah. I believe that,

[00:29:10] Mike DelaTorre: a big thing is , eh, well, except for Matt Frazier, he doesn't count. Cause he finished first and everything, but let's go super high level. Right? Like you look at games, athletes, look at Froning. Right. Rich Froning when he competed, he won events, but he wasn't first all the time, he just , he was just super consistent with his performances.

Right. So now let's trickle that down to your general athlete, if you're coming in here every day and you're, performing to the best of your ability, you're moving well. You're supporting others. You're getting the support from others as well. Dude. That's all you can really ask for.

It's super unrelated. To be, to think to yourself, man, I'm going to, I'm going to be top of the leaderboard every day. And I'm, I'm going to beat this person every single day, if you're you're really missing the point of CrossFit in general and, and what we're trying to do at bison, I think

[00:30:04] Sam Rhee: There are some people that compete with me and sometimes I beat them and sometimes I don't Rob deep heroes, an awesome example. Awesome athlete crushes me on, on a bunch of workouts.

Some workouts I beat him, but you know, and he's a really good push for me because we're different athletes, so if I'm sitting there and I'm doing a workout, I will always start. And if it was a 10 or, or 12 minute workout, he's got me hands down. But if you stretch it out to 20 to 25 minutes, usually I'll start to creep up.

And maybe I can nudge ahead a little bit, depending on the movement and watching him and watching me sometimes that gives me that push at the end to try to push a little bit harder. Yeah. And so we're in competition with each other. He wants to beat me. But he's, he's not jealous and and he's always supportive and I feel the same with him. I want to beat him, but I'm not going to hurt myself in order to do so.

[00:31:07] David Syvertsen: It's a more of like a supportive relationship,

[00:31:09] Sam Rhee: very supportive. It's not combative. And I don't, and I see other, people's doing the same thing where they're not supportive.

Like they'll see someone and they'll try to cut them down in some way, shape or form and say, oh, it wasn't him. It was, he was either shorting his reps and that happens. That's there's another guy who used to do that to me all the time. He'd be like, are you sure you got all your rounds in sound? Yeah.

[00:31:28] David Syvertsen: Did you miss count? And I'm like, fuck, finally. I'm like, yeah,

[00:31:31] Sam Rhee: it'd be a little insecure. So I'm like, well maybe I don't, I'm not sure, but, there are always going to be people out there that will say stuff that is, you see it it's negative. And that's really bad for culture. Yeah. But you know what it really is.

It's competitiveness take into. And X degree

[00:31:53] David Syvertsen: by ego.

[00:31:54] Sam Rhee: And I don't mind people wanting to beat me, like, listen, please beat me. Like use support. Yeah. But bone, but don't sit there and then denigrate me if you can't for some reason. Right, right, right. You're not sitting there accusing me of cheating in some way, shape or form when you crush my ass.

Okay. Right. It's only when I happened to beat you that you're like, oh, Sam, what's going on? Make it not about me, make it about you. Right. And see what's going on with you. Right.

[00:32:24] David Syvertsen: Yeah. So I, I think that. It's I think the majority of our members here and the majority, majority CrossFitters do get it, that the group is there to help you.

And you're there to help the group in a workout. Right. If you don't believe me, go work out by yourself for three months, let me know how you do, and you need these people. That, that's what, like, I need people here. You guys need people here and they need you. And I think if we all kind of just stay on that page, I think it's going to be a culture builder.

Yeah. Right. It was proven during the pandemic, when we were doing these stupid at-home workouts and, every now and then people meet in a park.. And again, you do that because you're desperate to be around a push.. And there's nothing wrong with that. That doesn't mean you're not disciplined.

Doesn't mean you lack motivation. And if you can get away from competing with each other and more along the lines of, Hey, we're here to help each other out. I think it really can. And the fact that you can be, can you be humble enough to say I need these people. To to, for me to really push as hard as I want to in my workouts.

I think it can solve a lot of issues. And help build our culture. All right. Something more lighthearted, like social events building relationships out of the gym. I've always said a community is not built in the gym. With stage Instagram videos of people clapping at a PR I think they're built outside of the.

And because that's when you really start getting diet, you can really dive into people's personal lives if you want to. And if they want you to dive into their personal life, but also you kind of see a different side of them. And I feel like when you see the human side of people you can understand them more at the gym.

And this is something that this was really easy to do back in the day, 2015, 2016. If we would just send a group out, like, Hey guys, let's go meet at a bar. You have, half the gym would show up, but it wouldn't be too many people. If we do that now we wouldn't be able to fit somewhere.

Right. And that's something that we're trying to figure out right now. We're looking into hiring someone to be in charge of running events at the gym which I think would be, is going to be a big help moving forward, because we have so many new people. It's amazing how much. People come to the gym that haven't been here in awhile for whatever reason.

And they're like, I don't know anybody here. I'm like, dude, you've only been gone a year, but there's been so many. And like to, to really get this thing going and saying on, on path, you need to act, at least give the opportunity for people to see each other outside of the gym. I don't think you need to go to all the social events to be a part of a positive culture.

But I think a lot of people do need that. A lot of people need the human connection outside the gym. Some do some don't. And, but there we need to, I think Bisons fallen short a little bit over the past, probably. I mean, I don't want to include COVID, but the past two years, probably in terms of really trying to mesh all these new people, because this is now an intimidating place for.

Hmm. It's, there's just so many people and like, yes, there's cliques. Like, there's going to be clear when you have over. I'm not going to get to how many members we have, but like when you have a, you have a lot of members, there's going to be groups of friends. You want to call it a clay called a click, but that's, and they gravitate towards each other.

And I think this is a responsibility that some people can take on. Don't always go to your friends every time you call me or write, like, go talk to someone new like that, that person's going to be there next week, too, and so we're going to hire someone to kind of just get that thing back on track, like a few events every year.

And if you can make them great, if not it's okay. Because that is when I think a culture really takes off. Yeah.

[00:35:39] Mike DelaTorre: Yeah. I agree. I think that was like when we were at Hoboken, that was one of the cool things there. We would have social events,, what was that thing that we used to do? Bar crawl the bar crawl and then oh yeah.

It's actually like you think about it very irresponsible

[00:35:55] Sam Rhee: because it was like, it's supposed to say power hour in college meant something. Is it the same thing that you guys did? A lot of drinking?

[00:36:01] Mike DelaTorre: Like it also involves pull up. Yeah. So like, yeah. And then it CrossFit, then it accelerated muscle

[00:36:07] David Syvertsen: ups.

[00:36:08] Sam Rhee: So like, like, EV every minute or

[00:36:11] David Syvertsen: every minute or an hour, take a sip.

Other people are doing shots. I'm like, that's a lot

[00:36:15] Sam Rhee: of shots that's not happening. Yeah. Because usually beer, we would do like a shot of beer or some

[00:36:20] David Syvertsen: beer and a pull up post. Like you had to do a pull up and a shot of beer for an hour straight. Yeah. Did

[00:36:26] Mike DelaTorre: you do it? Yeah, it was great. It was awesome.

What

[00:36:29] Sam Rhee: was hard to beer?

[00:36:30] David Syvertsen: The fact that Ashley was on my back while I was doing, I was literally doing pole. I have a picture. I'm like, oh my God.

[00:36:40] Mike DelaTorre: All right. So yeah, like stuff like that definitely makes it makes a big difference because, I mean, most people only have an hour to get here and then, they have to go home and like, deal with kids and spouses and whatnot.

So when you have those social events and you get to know, like you're saying, dude, like the human side of someone, I think it's really big. Yeah.

[00:36:59] David Syvertsen: What do you think, Sam?

[00:36:59] Sam Rhee: Yeah, when I first started here, people would just hang out. In the lobby. Yeah. Just talk and, and I feel like actually the podcast is sort of an outgrowth of that.

Just like trying to talk about stuff that we used to just hang out and talk about all the time. But yeah, the social events are, yeah, you're right. There's a lot of stupid stuff that happens when you involve alcohol or just people hanging out socially

[00:37:22] David Syvertsen: and type a personalities that aren't

[00:37:24] Sam Rhee: competitive.

Yeah. I just, I think back About yeah. Some of that stuff and yeah, especially me who doesn't hold their alcohol very well. And people get to know you really well. Like in those situations

[00:37:36] David Syvertsen: yeah. Some people say the truth comes out when you, when you get drunk. I don't know if I completely agree, but there are, I could see why someone would say that.

Yeah. So that could be a culture killer as, but maybe that's why maybe that's why the gym's bigger than it's ever been, because we're not getting drunk

[00:37:52] Sam Rhee: together. But I would say even the stuff like poker and some of that other stuff that, yeah, those like spontaneous

[00:37:59] David Syvertsen: things that was fun.

I'll tell you what's happening right now. That's really cool. Liz's six, 15, Friday class has turned into that class. Used to be two people, tops. Like just, no one came out now there's like 10, 15 people. And the reason they come in is they hang out after and drink. And every time I come in, I do my Saturday morning condition.

There's 19 white claws. I was like, wow, you had a good time last

[00:38:21] Sam Rhee: night. I mean, they're going to be spontaneous. Like I know a lot of people that just spontaneously started hanging out because they hang out at the gym or they meet at the gym and they started hanging out, out outside.

[00:38:31] David Syvertsen: Yeah. So many relationships have blossomed from, from

[00:38:33] Sam Rhee: Bryson and just friends, just friends, friends, and, and I think if you're new.

It's sometimes hard, especially post COVID. Yup. So I agree. I think that just sort of making it friendlier for people to hang out with would, would make it, cause there we are like-minded people and if you don't know a lot of people at bison, trust me, when you really hang out with them, you'll find you have so much in common and not necessarily from a professions or a work a standpoint, just from a perspective and mindset, which honestly is much better than someone who you just happened to friggin sell telephone books with you know, somewhere

[00:39:12] David Syvertsen: that's true. Yes. That's a good point. Yeah. So I mean, I think we just, I want to use Mike here a little bit because Mike has been to a few different shows. He's been a main voice at so many different places and he's probably seen the good and bad and I have some stuff I could probably bring up from our past either bison or even cross it Hoboken we, we had a little talk before this.

We're not going to throw anyone specific under the bus unless, unless you want to, I'm not going to, I don't think it's necessary either. I wouldn't want anyone to do that to me, so I'm not going to do that to them. But the I do think that part of what bison is now is what we've seen happen in a negative sense at other gyms.

And I'm like, all right, let's make sure we don't do that when it comes to the culture. Right. And so Mike, is there anything off the top of your head?

[00:39:54] Mike DelaTorre: Well, first it starts , with the top, right? Ownership, leadership, however, however you want to term it. Right. In, in the gyms I've worked at the downfall or the negativity, however you want to term it.

It always started from the top. Right. So people can do their best to insulate that from others, but it eventually trickles down. Right. And it'll start first with, the coaches and then eventually it makes it to the members and dude wasn't makes it to the members then spreads like wildfire, dude.

It's so tough. Having ownership, leadership that will establish a good culture. Like we have here. That's super important. And it's hard to do,, like you're saying, we're growing really, we're growing a lot. Right. And the other gyms that I've been to, they grew a lot as well.

And sometimes if that growth is , I don't want to say unchecked, but , if you don't keep on top of things, then the negativity can spread really fast. So that was a big thing.

[00:40:59] Sam Rhee: What do you mean by negativity? What did you see that was negative?

[00:41:02] Mike DelaTorre: Well there there's some places, some places I've been at where Ownership philosophies.

They just didn't, they, they didn't mesh. Right. And when you have right there, you're going to have a difference of culture. Right. And once you have, sometimes that can be, mended together. But if that difference in culture, if that difference in culture, isn't if it's too great, like if the two places are, are, or, whatever is the difference is, is too great.

Then that might never bond, and if that's the case, then you essentially are, you're going to, you're fighting a losing battle. You're never going to unite people is what I'm trying to say. So that was, that's been a big thing, always in every gym I've coached at is it starts at the top. If there isn't a clear vision, if there isn't a United.

And that's really big. We're also in my opinion, man, we're super lucky here because the coaching staff, we all, we, we all look at things very similarly. , obviously we're, we have our own philosophies in this and that when we coach and everything, but we're on the same page.

And I haven't been part of a coaching team like that since my days across at Morristown and my really early days at CrossFit Hoboken when Dave and TAF were there. If you have. If not all your coaches are on the same page. Do that's big too, man, because then instead of say handling conflict conflicts internally, right?

, coaches, conflicts, I think things happen, right, dude, all of a sudden, you start a coach will start talking to members or whatever, and then that's really bad too. Like stuff like that is

[00:42:37] David Syvertsen: what sensitive about it is it takes a, it could just take one slip up from a coach.

I got, and I tell 'em I feel pressure all the time here, all like F all day, every day, 24, 7, 365. And I want coaches when they're coaching, not outside to feel the same way. And it's not because like, Hey, I feel you should too. It's more, it's so sensitive. Like you can build this thing for seven, eight years and it could take one bad day.

Yeah. For you to really say something that you shouldn't do, something that should didn't and you could write. And it's a huge responsibility and a huge responsibility. And it's, sometimes it's not words, it's sometimes it's actions. Right. And I can think about situations that cross it, Hoboken the coach, starting to sleep with multiple girls at the gym and that and also another one in Hoboken as well, that, that kind of sent that gym down the shitter to where the coach was just, sleeping with a bunch of different women or sleeping with, they had, I don't want to bring an XX up too much here, but like you bring up a a spouse husband, wife at the gym, and one of the coaches is sleeping with the wife.

And like that all it takes is that yeah. That one bad decision and it could ruin the whole thing, just like at the snap of a finger. And it's a tremendous responsibility. And w we should feel pressure all the time. Not that you're trying to avoid that your urge to do that, or you're fighting the urge to do it, but it could be a huge slip up that could happen in five seconds.

Yeah. That can ruin something,

[00:44:00] Sam Rhee: I mean, relationships will happen, and I don't think there are any hard or fast rules in terms of what should happen between people. But the repercussions of those relationships are really important. And if they impact others, that's where the issue is. Like, for example, should coaches sleep with

[00:44:22] David Syvertsen: athletes if they're both single, right?

Yeah. So I was saying it's not immoral, right?

[00:44:28] Sam Rhee: Yeah. And did that turn out fine? Yes. But what would have happened if you had a girlfriend who you were also dating at the time, right, get pissed off and then come to the gym and make a big fuss or, or cause issues. Yeah. That's really where it becomes an issue.

It's not the actual relationship with sacrifice, right? Yeah. What is the repercussion of that relationship? And so that's where people have to be mindful. We're not sitting here telling people how to live their lives or how moral they should be or immoral or whatever that, they're doing.

That is immaterial to any of us. Okay. But if a coach, in that example is having sex with a couple of people and everyone's on board and everyone's like, yeah. Woo. Awesome. Okay, fine. Good for the coach. But if people are really pissed off and there's a lot of conflict involved and that conflict is involving people in the gym.

And now people are in the gym are taking sides and they're yelling at each other. And it's

[00:45:27] David Syvertsen: getting all the, not getting invited to this thing, right.

[00:45:29] Sam Rhee: That is where that culture becomes a problem. And we're not telling people how to live their lives. What we're telling people is be mindful of what your effect will be on others.

And that's really important. And sometimes you can't even anticipate it. So sometimes you actually have to be extra careful. So for example, and especially now in this day and age, well, can I use you and Melissa as an example? Or is that not? Yeah. Okay. So then how did you guys meet and start dating and doing all that sort of stuff while you're an, she's an athlete in your coach?

[00:46:03] David Syvertsen: So we're

[00:46:03] Mike DelaTorre: across it, Hoboken, and I met her there and we just started talking one day. I'm really awkward. With girls, like I was like, oh, it's the worst? So like my friends, I remember growing up, , my friends and I'm like, oh man, that girl in college was so into you. Like, why didn't you tell me like, oh, we thought you knew him.

I have no idea what I'm doing, man. You should have helped me out. So we, yeah, we just started talking and hanging out. And I don't even, this is going to be so bad, but like, I don't really know. Like we just, we're like talking to stuff and got friendly with each other. But it was like one of those things, like once we started dating, I had come to grips with all right, man. Like if this goes south, like you need to make sure that you handle it the right way. Absolutely. Because, especially as as a coach, No. If it went south, then if I handled it wrong, a lot of bad things could happen. Absolutely. So even as, but also even as an athlete with things like that, , interpersonal relationship relationships at the gym, you have to, you have to realize man, that is a culture killer.

If, if something goes south and things are not handled well. Yeah. Then , dude, all that blows up and people will know that spreads like that.

[00:47:12] Sam Rhee: And the problem with that is, and I'm glad it was. Well, and I'm glad you were sensitive to them, but I think it's very unpredictable. And I think as an owner, that is a nightmare situation where something blows out of proportion and it can even be between athletes and then other athletes get involved.

And we've seen, we have seen that at bison where it's become an issue and we've had to deal with it. And it's one is, listen, you can expect relationships will happen. Okay. They will happen between athletes, maybe between coaches and now who the heck knows, but how Jim deals with it, how the greater group of athletes deal with it.

That's really where it is. Yeah. And hopefully, it's not going to be to the point where. You're right. You mentioned it as sort of a stereotype, but it's really true. A lot of gyms get really blown up because of an inappropriate relation. Well, what we would call inappropriate, but whatever, right?

I mean a relationship where there's a ton of conflict. Yep. Yeah.

[00:48:13] David Syvertsen: That, that, and then it just was not handled and it wasn't

[00:48:16] Sam Rhee: ha and the most important thing I think is also how did the gym handle, right?

[00:48:20] David Syvertsen: Like you can't, you can't expect that nothing's gonna go wrong. You can't ever expect that. You're just going to own a business for 5, 10, 15 years, right.

With a lot of people. And extreme, nothing's going to go wrong, right? So you just it's, it's almost like assume something will happen and then you'd have to have a conditioned response,

[00:48:35] Sam Rhee: And the culture of the group should also be such that strong enough to handle it. So is there a ton of gossip going on if it is that probably is going to make the situation worse?

Right. So, a culture where gossip is frowned upon where it's not looked at as positive will probably help in the first place. Are the people in general supportive and not talking trash about each other, right. Because if they're already talking trash about it, it wouldn't take much for things to get

[00:49:00] David Syvertsen: out of here even to change the subject somewhat.

But it is kind of in the same, it's like a bullet point under what you're talking about. Sam is we could take like the, people sleeping with each other out of it and say when, when it comes to athletes in the gym, getting angry with each other and. Oh, you cheated this. I cheated that.

I think all these discussions that we have on this podcast, but also how we hold ourselves. Like I had someone literally come up to me and on Thursdays wad, it goes on. I came in today was I think I could beat you in this workout. And it's like, I literally laughed at did not care. And if I told you in a healthy way or an unhealthy, no, to be honest with you, but , if we knew who it was, you'd be like, oh, okay.

Like whatever. And the thing is , if I was the kind of guy that would get mad about it and tell it and text you guys about it, then have a group text until all the coaches then tell the members that, that kind of just adds to eventually a big problem because other people will see it. And then those then they'll emulate the action.

So like what I'm, I'm agreeing with you in that, how to solve an issue with relationship. Is being conditioned right now by our actions and how you're building the culture, a resilient community, right? Like, exactly. Like, honestly, like COVID came. Was I scared? Hell yeah. But you know what, in the back of my head, I was like, we're too strong for this to knock us out.

, I remember I told people, I was like, we'll be back. , no doubt. I don't care if this thing strips with is all our money. We're going to be back and we're gonna be back stronger than ever. Here we are. We're stronger than ever. And it's because it's not being cocky. It's just like we were too strong.

And do I think we could be stronger right now as a culture? Absolutely. Do I think I could do better? Do I think you guys could do better? Yes. Okay. And I'm never going to not say that just so you know, but like it is. It's because of that, that I'm ready for pretty much anything. And I hope you guys are too, as coaches and leaders of the gym that we're so strong, but we have a responsibility to make it even stronger because we don't know what's coming.

And we honestly, we can't control what's coming either. We couldn't control COVID you can't control bad people at the gym. You just can't right. I've been trying for years. You can't. Right. And, but it, and you build a resilient culture. That's how you succeed long-term yeah.

[00:51:13] Sam Rhee: Resilient means accepting, not pushing people out. It means when crap happens, we're supporting each other and it doesn't mean based on performance or anything else. It's just based on who we are wanting to make everyone better. And I think that, that's the one thing that bison does do as a culture from the top down is, when I think of you and I think of Chris, when I think of the coaches is they want to make people better.

And I think that culture, as long as it continues, that's what makes it resilient so that when conflicts arise, when people have issues that mindset, regardless of what it is, COVID, it helps us,

[00:51:51] David Syvertsen: we defeat it, we repeat it. It helps us stay together. The last thing I wrote on here, and we can close with this, or if you guys have more to say we can, I just wrote this.

I was like, the biggest message I want to get across on this episode is it is a responsibility of everyone that comes to bison and everyone that goes to a cross it to build the culture in a positive way. Does it does not. Does it need to be overly hands-on no best friends don't need to be there, but a gym stops growing or it starts to worsen when a group of people bring negative energy to the day after day to the gym.

How can one avoid that? Bison does not perfect in several ways. I hear that we have too much dust in the corner. I thought you were addressing that. Oh, it's been addressed goddamn wallet. Right.

But one thing we have excelled with is called. Not everyone is friends at bison. We even have some people here that don't like each other, they actually dislike each other. But it does not, and will not impact our culture. And those that can not accept that will simply be weeded out. And they have been some have been weeded out because they can't accept that.

Some people don't like them or they don't like other people, that's not the job of anyone to be liked or have to have you like them it's that you respect them. And that you are trying to build this culture in a positive way. If you're not, you're going to be weeded out at some point.

That's a good point.

[00:53:10] Sam Rhee: Yeah. and , that takes a form in a lot of different ways. The person who shows. Does the workout goes home is part of the culture is part of the culture. 100% might say, Hey, I'm what am I doing? That's somehow contributing in a positive way. We talked about it and listen, just by what you do while you're here, pushing other people by showing up.

Yeah. And even if you don't, even if you weren't to talk to a single bird, but if you carry yourself in a really appropriate way, and at least friendly and carry yourself with excellence and went home. Yeah. You're contributing to the culture

[00:53:41] David Syvertsen: and the thought I actually had this thought, I didn't know where to put it in.

So I'm just going to put it in here because we're almost done the, if someone wants to know how that can contribute to a social to the culture, but they don't, haven't really. Taken in anything that we've said, or they don't feel like they can add based on what we've said, I'll tell you one thing you could do.

You could show it to a class that doesn't have a lot of people, and I'm not, I'll say this right now. Okay. I know there's some people in our gym, they love the big class. It gives them energy. If they feel cool, they feel included. They feel part of the group. I'll tell you what, you would do a huge service if every now and then you went to a seven, 15 or 15.

And like, when I'm done, when I'm going, when I'm done with my programming, which is going to come next spring I'm going to make an effort like once a week to get to a seven, 15 or 15. And honestly, I don't give out, I don't care. Who's there. Like, I'm going to show up there to know that, like the fact that someone's not working out by themselves at night, like that would be a, I would have so much respect for a person that's.

Every now and then show up to a seven, 15 or 15, or, and yes, it might throw off your day. Again, this place is not about you. Yeah. I love, I

[00:54:42] Sam Rhee: love that, that time, the people there, cause you know, I'll all on-ramp in the evening and and if I do I'll I'll work out at that time. Yeah. It's fun.

It's great. I love the people. I love the fact that usually it's Ash, that's like all our eyes on me because it's not like 20 people there. I, I usually pick up something that I normally don't at the 6:00 AM class. Yeah. It is hard because it's hard, especially if I want to work out the next day at 6:00 AM.

That's a, that's a short

[00:55:10] David Syvertsen: term. And again, I'm not like I don't want you taking that as you should do it. I don't want, honestly, I don't want anyone to feel individualized on that. I'm saying I'm just offering an option. If someone is seeking a way that they can contribute to a culture, but they can't host a party.

They're too busy to do this. They're not, they don't like going out with people. They don't want to get drunk on a Friday night. Right. If you simply show up to a class that just doesn't have a lot of people you guys can see on Zen planner, like, what classes are empty that, that helps other people big time.

Yeah. And they're feeding off your energy. Like you've all worked out by yourselves before, right? Yeah. Like, so she's Sam, Sam started off and when he started off, like he was the 6:00 AM sometimes, and that was great socks. Like David 6:00 AM together and. It does. It's hard. It's hard to work out by yourself, but guess what?

There's someone doing it and you could be the difference that doesn't, I would love some people to take that on.

[00:55:59] Sam Rhee: Yeah. When Ricky and Andre showed up, we'd be like,

[00:56:00] David Syvertsen: yay. Oh man. All right. So you guys done with this? Any, any closing thoughts? More important than I thought it was going to be actually.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're coming from someone that's probably thought about this place more than any two people combined since we've been open and it's a culture is gonna make or break this place for the next 10, 15 years. Yeah, for sure.