S02E65 HOW MUCH TRAINING VOLUME IS TOO MUCH?

Is more always better? Dave and Sam discuss how much training volume is appropriate for the CrossFit athlete. Novice, competitor, geared for health, geared for sport - all of us can optimize what our training volume is based on our goals and lifestyle. We also reference a classic CrossFit Journal article from 2016 by @jameshobart "A Deft Dose of Volume" (link below) which is a must-read for everyone looking to understand what is the right amount of training volume.

http://journal.crossfit.com/2016/03/a-deft-dose-of-volume.tpl

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S02E65 HOW MUCH TRAINING VOLUME IS TOO MUCH

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: Welcome back to the herd fit podcast. I am coach David Syvertsen. I'm here with Dr and coach Sam Rhee. We have a really important topic to talk about today and it's been coming up with other people that I coach both on next level at bison, some competitors that I talk to on Instagram how much volume is too much.

Are you working out too much? Are you working out enough? It's a question that is asked all the time, both internally and externally. This is the time of year we're approaching September. Right now. This podcast is gonna come out at the end of August and you're not alone. If you're kind of feeling kind of like messy in a rut unhealthy.

That is what summer is. I, I love kind of dialing it back a little bit and not taking things so seriously in the summer. But I know that at some point you do need to kind of get that back on the healthy train and you're around a lot of other people that you constantly feel are working hard.

Achieving things posting on Instagram, this, and it, it's tough to be like, oh my God, am I falling behind? Am I getting worse? Am I losing it? Am I getting too old? You know, why does this hurt all the time? And I think one of the things that we really need to look at before you say, all right, here I go, I'm getting back into it.

Right. Is how much volume do. To maintain your level of fitness to maintain health. And it, the conversation will go in a few different directions, but I have three main bullet points under this conversation that I want to help maybe get some wheels spinning in your head in regard to this topic specifically Sam opening, thoughts on how much volume is too much, how little is too little.

This is a great

[00:01:35] Sam Rhee: topic. And as soon as you brought it up, I thought this is awesome because I wrestled with. Every week, I have to try to figure out for myself, what is the right amount of volume? And it depends on so many different factors. So I think if you're experienced, if you're novice, this is something that We deal with as CrossFitters

[00:01:55] David Syvertsen: all the time.

Yeah. So I have three topics and Sam has a really good article written in front of him written by James Hobart. That kind of talks about this and he is gonna reference that here and there. I want to break it down to three topics. I'm gonna start off with the one that everyone should be conscious of.

New CrossFitter old, CrossFitter competitive, CrossFitter health, CrossFitter back and forth. CrossFitter it's recovery. I think recovery dictates your volume. 100% and some of you guys wear the whoop straps and it tells you how recovered you. You know, do we wanna be married to that number every morning?

Oh, I'm not recovered. I'm not in the green. I should not go work out. No, I don't think you should. But I also think if you're constantly in the red or yellow, it's probably a, a red flag that you should put some attention on. And to keep this simple. What does recovered feel like? Does that mean you're never sore?

You're never achy. I wouldn't go that strict with it, but I would say that if you have certain parts of the week, whether it's like, if you're a traditional person that works out Monday and Tuesday, and then it starts to get a little gray in there. If you start to wake up and things don't feel good, like you're actually in pain, I'm not talking just about stiffness, although that can be a part of it.

Like, you know, you actually have pain in your joints, like where you start to warm up and you don't feel better. It still feels bad. That's like the number one sign to me that you are over training and you need to take more rest in between your workouts.

[00:03:13] Sam Rhee: Pain is, and I've overlooked that so many times when I was driving at volume, driving at volume is if you're not feeling and I, and I think a lot of athletes, they go through that learning process.

Yep. Last week. We did snatches and after that My right hip felt a little, not, not bad, but when I was walking, I could feel it feel a little tight. And I felt that before mm-hmm, went home, their gunned, it came in, did some green band stretching. And I, I did it didn't stop me from working out. I still worked out the next day, but I, I looked at my hip and I said, how does this feel?

And it actually felt good. So I kept going mm-hmm but if it was still feeling a little tight, I would've probably. Back down a little bit, but it took me a long time to figure out that I have to listen to my body and work with that doesn't mean stop. I will, I will stop. Yeah. For something like that, but it will make me cognizant and of adjust when I need to.

I, I

[00:04:09] David Syvertsen: always like to quote my, my high school football coach. , it's, it's funny that some of the things that you. And are here when you're a kid and they stick with you the rest of your life. And it says, you, you guys have to be able to tell the difference between pain and injury. And again, I remember thinking back then, I'm like, well, you still never really get an objective answer.

The way the reason he says that is, you know, you're a high school football player, you know, you're still kind of developing some of that toughness as that age. And we also had a very small roster. People started getting hurt, you know, we'd be screwed. Right. But you know, the, the what stuck with me and I still think about it this time to this day is.

If I am pursuing a certain goal, whether it's in the sport, whether it's with just my general fitness program, if I feel like I'm not getting better, like every week something eight, like right now I have a left knee issue. Right. And I'm seeing someone for it, getting it worked on. And like, I just start to commit to that this past week, cuz I really need to get this thing back on track.

If it doesn't start to get better over the course of a week or two, you do have to start dialing it back because it almost feels like, all right, this is an actual injury that I'm dealing with. It's not just like a sore, this or sore that, and I've done this for so long that this is where the experience CrossFitter has an advantage, right?

Where. We've touched that frying pan a few times and, and we've gotten burned and now it's like, all right, that I can't do that again. Or I shouldn't do that again. Right. You learn from past mistakes. I've been through a lot of different things with my body over the past decade that I kind of know, all right, it's been two, three weeks now.

Like this is something, or sometimes something happens right away. Like, you know, right in the moment, like something like the, I used the words pop, right? Mm-hmm like, whenever I know, like if I really hurt something in a workout during a fast Twitch movement, I'm like, That was a legitimate injury. I'm gonna have to dial it back.

So the experience helps, but I do think that line can help. A lot of you guys out is what is the difference between pain and injury. And again, I'm gonna just repeat myself from an earlier statement. If the movement, if the, whatever it does not feel good, if it does not feel better during and after the workout.

then I think that's, that's the sign that you're there takes some mental discipline here to take, take a step back. And you know, there, I'm breaking this up into three different periods. This is gonna be the last topic will be your mental approach. So this is where I'm gonna cut off that because I wanna talk about the mental side of it later, but in terms of the recovery component, that is the simplest answer I can say.

So if someone's, I just did beginner with someone last week, I have beginner two with him on Tuesday. Almost every time they will ask me how many times a week should I work out when I start CrossFit and I have a template answer, but I say it's very based on the individual, but I usually say day on day off for the first month or two, try not to come in two days in a row.

And then if you get through that and that's like, all right, and you come in and you feel invigorated every single time. All right, maybe you, now you add one of those. Take one of those rest days out. Now you're going two, three days in a row, day off, two, three days in a row, day off. And then, you know, we have people in our gym that come every single.

You know, is that smart? We'll see. I mean, yeah. I don't wanna say it's smart or dumb because if they can recover from that kind of volume then yeah. I say do something every single day.

[00:07:10] Sam Rhee: A lot of it depends on your intensity. So you mentioned this article that I I'm referencing and I will include a link on it on the website and in our podcast description, but it's from James Hobart in 2016, it's called a death dose of volume and.

The first sentence in that article is CrossFit programming thrives on intensity, not volume. And they've talked about it. Is it better to train for 90 minutes at 60% or 60 minutes at 90%? So for a lot of programming, a lot of work that you do. Are you benefiting from coming in every day and putting in less intensity versus really focusing on certain workouts and, and hitting it with more intensity now.

I work out probably more than, you know, I'm usually like a four on one off kind of day, depending on the week and depending on how I feel. Yep. I can't go 90% for every one of those workouts. Good point. Yeah. So I, I pick and choose and I feel like I'm still getting benefits even going at a lower intensity, but I'm also aware that My best improvements where I make the most gains is where I focus.

And I go at a high level of intensity mm-hmm and you know, if I'm gonna half ass, a workout every day, but I come in every day, what kind of benefit am I getting from that? So I think a lot of us should really think

[00:08:31] David Syvertsen: about that. Yeah. That's that's great. That's gonna come back up. When I talk about the mindset at the end, it's, there's nothing wrong with picking days where you really go after it hard.

More often than that. It's going at 80% speed. I worked out at 80% speed a lot in the past year and it helped me a lot in a lot of different ways. So, so we'll, we'll talk about that. Number two here, how much volume is too much volume or how little is too little is. You know, if, if you have a competitive goal and competitive goal, to me, it can be a few different things.

I hate when people say competitive is only games like that's garbage, competitive goal to me is you sign up for a local competition and you want to go and give your best effort. A competitive goal can be like, Hey, I'm gonna do the open every year. I wanna give my best effort in the open every single year.

It could be. the bison. It could be like, no, like competitive is I have a few people in the gym that I, we have a respectful relationship in this regard. I kind of wanna start beating these people like Dan, Coda's got a group of people that he is competed with over the years. They're great friends, but they try to beat each other.

They're still great friends, you know, like they want each other to do well. That's still a competitive goal to me. So it could go in a few different directions, but if you are going down that competitive route, it could be any of the things I just talked about or your own, you. Pursuit of, of whatever high level competition you're going for.

You do need more volume at some point. I, in my opinion now how serious your goal is or how high level you are that will dictate how much more volume you need to do. But if I have a goal of going to a local competition in October, Which is three workouts in the matter of six hours that need to be, you know, you need to be a hundred percent at all.

Three, there is volume that needs to be trained to train that activity of three workouts in a day, and to only do one workout a day and never do extra work. You're not screwed. If you show up to the competition, you're not gonna do poorly. You know, you're not gonna be embarrassed. You're just not actually training for the competi.

You're you doing back to back workouts or back to back to back workouts for the first time at the competition, you, you're not fully prepared for that environment now, if you're okay with that, because you're just going for the comp for the experience, more power to you. Seriously. I don't want, I don't want people coming into the gym doing three workouts because Dave said, I need to do three workouts before the garden stayed open.

You know, like if you're just, but if you want to go do like your best effort and actually simulate yourself for that. You do need to do multiple sessions in a day or pick up the volume throughout the week, pick up the intensity levels in the week. Thoughts on that?

[00:10:48] Sam Rhee: Absolutely. The, the issue is, is that if you're an athlete and you wanna do a local comp yeah.

You have to talk to your coach and say, okay, what is it that that's my goal with this? Most of the people that are competitive athletes that are doing extra volume, have excellent mechanics and consistency. Yeah. So if your coach says, yeah, you should be able to do this local comp, but you really have to work on your mechanics of your snatch.

Mm-hmm cause that is really a problem for you. Or, you know what, every time we do these bar, do you have to scale these and cuz you don't have them do the extra volume, but you know what your extra volume is going to be. It's going to be skill work. Yeah. It's not gonna be a Metcon where you are. You know, 50 crappy bar, muscle ups, where your chicken winging it all the time.

Yep. You're gonna go to your coach and your coach is gonna say, you're gonna work on building up your LA strength. Yep. You're gonna work on your shoulder overhead squat motion. So your, your snatch is gonna be better. A

[00:11:41] David Syvertsen: lot of boring stuff that is not very

[00:11:43] Sam Rhee: fulfilling. If you struggle with mechanics.

Then it's not the volume, it's rehearsing good movement patterns. And that's what more volume generally is going to be for most of the athletes. Yep. If you're a competitive athlete and you move perfectly like a rich phoning for everything. Yeah. Fine. Your body can take that extra volume. Yep.

But you need someone to look at you critically. Yep. And say, this is what you need to do. Good point. And that's what next level really was for me. And for a lot of people is where are you needing more? Movement pattern improvement. Right? What is it that you're not doing consistently? And then working on that?

It wasn't like, Hey, Dave's telling me to do another 20 minute Metcon every day. Yeah. Like that's that would've been a recipe for disaster.

[00:12:25] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Yeah. That it, it goes back to the old school ladder, the pyramid of CrossFit, right. Mechanics, first consistency. Second. intensity third and intensity in this discussion is volume, right?

You, you can add intensity several different ways and cross it. Workout. Loads speed. We're talking about volume, if you're, and it's a great point. Like I'm nodding my head, you know, saying amen. When Sam says, if the movement is poor and you're just doing it more often, the movement will stay poor. Right? If your pacing is poor, but we're just telling you to do more work and your pacing will just continue to.

Stay poor and hold you back. Right. And so, yes, the more volume is needed for competitive athletes, but it's, if, and only if the other boxes have been checked, and I think we get really impatient with this, right? If someone has a competitive goal, They think three weeks is a long time.

They think three months is a long time of trying to really fix their snatch technique, do all the strict pull up work and that work and, and GD work so that my muscles don't have the chicken wing three months is not a long time. A year is not a long time. It's. There is no timetable for it.

You have to like, you have to get better. You have to show to yourself, not even the coaches. You have to show to yourself that you can keep things clean and consistent on all levels before you go after like the super high volume and even go after like the highest level of the sport. So I, I think that's a really good way of, of putting that in relation to do I need more volume if I wanna compete it's yes.

The probably the answer is yes, but it might, it might not be what you think it might not be extra wise. It might not be due do the four 15 class and then. Do the five 15 class right. We've had people do that over the past. It's like, it's like that mental addiction to just feel like you're working out, which again, there is value in it.

It's just limited. And it's opening up a door of you know, possibility of, of really bad things happening to recovery wise. So again, that's gonna bring you back to, are you recovering from all this extra work? Right? So those are the first two. The last one is probably the most important one to me. It's mindset.

And this is where I think a lot of us probably have a lot of common ground. Like, I bet that as we start talking about this, you're gonna feel like a lot of like head nods to this, right. Is we, we belong to a gym and I know there's a lot of gyms, people that listen to this, that don't come to bison. So just the background, the gym is it's got, we have a lot of members, but more than that, you have a lot of members here.

Very fit. And this is not coming from like a proud dad, coach of Crossett, bison. Like we have, you know, 25 people qualify for quarter finals outta the open. We have, you know, a handful of people that might qualify for the legends comp we have, you know, and then we even have another dozen or two dozen people that just missed out on that, on that level.

Right. And even take that level out of it. You still have a lot of people that sign for competitions, like people. In our state love our gym because so many people from our gym sign up for their competitions. Right. They go there, they compete. That's a competitor to me. Right. They're competing. And. It's hard not to be inspired by it.

You know, it like, I get inspired still to this day, if I'm like in a rut and I don't feel like I'm motivated coaching classes motivates me because like, there's just so many people that are working so hard and I know they have other things going on in their life too. And it's like, they've suck it up.

Like, they're doing it. You gotta do it too. So in a good way, it's inspiring, but it can really quickly turn into, oh, that person's doing more, that person's doing more, that person's doing more. I need to do more too. I'm gonna be the one that gets left behind, they're all gonna right up to CrossFit heaven.

And I'm gonna be down here, you know, asking for an invite to their club. Right. And this is one thing I think a lot of people subconsciously struggle with FOMO or yes, FOMO, FOMO, or honestly, maybe like subtle jealousy. Mm-hmm subtle fear. Mm-hmm that others are gonna get better than they're not mm-hmm and that's the reason why they, why they wanna do more volume.

[00:16:18] Sam Rhee: the article says it's a fools errand to cram multiple workouts on top of each other, in hopes of finding a shortcut to fitness, which is, which is true, which is why everyone that I've ever seen, who did multiple workouts, like take the four 15 and the five, 15 glass never got appreciably

[00:16:34] David Syvertsen: better with that.

And they're no longer here. Right?

[00:16:36] Sam Rhee: Uh, One of the things that I've learned about volume over the years is you have to have everything else set up in your. To handle that volume. So it's not just a question of adding workouts. Is, is your recovery set up, right? Is your nutrition set up right? Is your sleep set up right?

Is your stress level set up? Right? Every time I added volume and I. Didn't have anything else set up in my life? My work schedule sucked. I wasn't eating well. My sleep patterns were really disordered. It, it always led to injury and, I can't take that volume unless I know that my foundation, my framework everything else around me is, is set up and I think.

as a coach, when I have athletes come to me and say, I, I wanna do more. And the reason why I wanna do more is either I wanna compete. Right. Or I wanna do this, that, or the other thing, the first thing I would always say is, like you said, mentally, what are your motivations? Yeah. And are you really prepared to do that?

Because the people who just want to, you know, keep up with people mm-hmm, . They don't know what these other people are doing. They know nothing. And the, these people that I know who come in so often their lives are they're so good.

[00:17:46] David Syvertsen: Yeah. At everything else in their lives. Right. A lot of senators around the training, the training's just like one component to it.

[00:17:51] Sam Rhee: Right. Most of them, there are some freaks that that don't do uh, Anything, and they're really good, but they're, but they're, they're not your ordinary

[00:18:00] David Syvertsen: person. Yeah. And you don't want, you don't wanna use them as a gauge. Right. And I I'm really big on trying not to use other people as a gauge period. I just wanna say this to, to the volume, to the people that really think that the volume is what's separating them from the next level.

Right. It's not the case. I most of the time, I would say the, you know, Bison's been open for almost 10 years now. And if we wanna get into good and bad or best athletes, worst athlete, whatever. Right. The best athletes that have been our gym did not do more volume than the workout. Just, I want that to like, just simmer in your head.

Greg Glassman always said that, like who, who who's been the best athlete in our gym no longer comes here. Most consistent 6:00 AM or, oh Ryan rad. And that guy almost never did extra work. Now he was a professional athlete caliber before he started CrossFit. The dude

[00:18:50] Sam Rhee: was a freak. He was a D one

[00:18:51] David Syvertsen: quarterback.

Yeah. D one quarterback. He actually was in training camp with the Redskins. And I think he got drafted outta high school to play baseball. So, yes, you're talking about a very high end athlete and you don't wanna compare yourself, but I do wanna put the thought in your head that you're talking about the highest level at a gym that has a lot of high, a high level athletes, never did extra work.

Well,

[00:19:10] Sam Rhee: he would do some handstand pushup work after some workouts. Very

[00:19:13] David Syvertsen: rarely. And it was, and even that, but what was that work? It was slow, boring work, right? Yeah. Skill work. And every now and then, like if he signed up for a competition or the open was coming up, he put a little extra into it. Yeah. And again, I'm not gonna use Ryan Ratcliffe as a, as a, an example for all of you to listen to because a, some of you guys don't know him, B.

You know, he was a very gifted athlete naturally, but I do think that he, what he did really well is every day he came in like same time moved, exceptionally well put, he was always asking for like movement diagnosis. Am I moving well, am I doing it correctly? Mm-hmm how can I get better? Mm-hmm and he put all he had into every workout, whatever he had in him.

He put it into that workout. High level of intensity. Yeah. And just consistency. Yeah. And I, I think this is where I think there's a really strong disconnect between athletes. I feel like they have something more to achieve, but they also don't want to get hurt and they still want have like their lifestyle on the outside that they're, you know, too stubborn and don't wanna change.

It's the consistency of your habits in and out of the gym that will bring you up to a higher level. And the longer you do CrossFit, the more that becomes true. If you're really inconsistent with drinking, with eating, with sleeping, with stress levels. More work is probably more likely to bring you worse.

Yes. Down the ladder yep. Than up the ladder. Yep. And I think that's something we should all put thought into.

[00:20:37] Sam Rhee: There are two things I want to bring up. One is I would also use, I know you use your brother for an example all the time. Yep. But does he do any. Additional CrossFit training. Never. No. And I honestly feel like his level of fitness is as good or better.

Yep. Over the past 5, 6, 7, 8 years. That he's been CrossFitting. Yeah. How

[00:20:56] David Syvertsen: many people could have four kids in that span and still say that. Yeah. You know, and what has he

[00:20:59] Sam Rhee: done extra but you know what he does, he's consistent. Yep. And. He brings max intensity. Yeah. To his

[00:21:07] David Syvertsen: workouts.

He tries very hard every single time, really, really hard. And that's good enough for him mentally. He checks that box. He does it, he walks outta here. He comes back the next day. Right.

[00:21:16] Sam Rhee: And he has no aspirations for competitive CrossFit or, to do certain things. He's just someone who's looking to maintain or keep his level of fitness.

And I think he's actually. Improved over the years, just because of that approach that he's brought. Right. That's the first thing, the second thing is, is I wanted to ask you about how you were able to add volume into your life and then how you actually decreased. Cuz I think you actually have, oh, for sure.

Volume in your life. Yeah. In terms of what your training is. So

[00:21:41] David Syvertsen: I mean, I, I was around some responsible people. Like I was fortunate again, you had like. Good people in front of me, like helping me out back in 2012, when I really wanted to commit to like all, I really want to go as high as I can within the sport.

And here we are 10 years later. Right. And that's a long time. It's amazing how much happens in 10 years. But I had a lot of people really teach me that. Like I, I can tell my coach's name. Stephan Mari, Dan Ramo, Craig Parcells, Mike Delatour. They always preach. You know, don't do more, just do what you're doing better.

Don't do more, but do what you're doing better. Like move better, move better. And then eventually it was, Hey, I'm recovering really well from this I'm coming six days a week. And every time I come in, I can put max output on. I'm not getting injured. I feel pretty good. Let's have one of these days had two sessions in 'em.

All right. Recover from that really? Well. This is around the time bison open. So I'm about two, three years in now. And then as I inched up, like the highest my volume ever was, was prior to the French Throwdown in 2019, maybe the year prior to 2018, when I started training with that Colum crew mm-hmm

And that's when I was at the highest level of like multiple intensity sessions per day, like it was so much, and at that point I also think that was the easiest and cleanest. My lifestyle ever was right. Pre kid pre owning a house you know, had a little bit more help at the gym. So I wasn't opening up the gym every single morning, closing it every single night.

And that is when, when all those habits like really got cleaned up. And I was so consistent for two, three years. And I had outside help. I hired a nutrition coach at back at that time. Right. Everything else was lined up so well, but I inched it up. I didn't go from CrossFit once a day, five days a week to, so basically five workouts a week to 12, like it was basically seven workouts a week to.

Then to nine then to 10, I'm still recovering 11. Lifestyle's getting cleaned up 12. Right? And now the reason why you dial it back is like, the life has changed. Right. It's hard for me to maintain a really like that same lifestyle where like I could put everything into it, you know, like everyone that has a young kid, like, you know, your sleep's different, it's unpredictable.

Totally. There's other lifestyle, things that have gotten in the way of, so like I do work out less now than I used to. And I think it's gonna stay there until I really, you know, there's some things that Ash and I are talking about with the fall that I, I might be able to up the volume as legends comes closer, but I know this, that if I can't recover and I don't have the lifestyle lined up, I'm not gonna go work out.

And I think one thing that's changed about me that I think a lot of people need to hear. Is my addiction to working out is not what it was, what it used

[00:24:14] Sam Rhee: to be. Yeah. Let's talk about this addiction, cuz I feel like I have it a little bit. Yeah. And a lot of people have it maybe in varying degrees.

[00:24:20] David Syvertsen: Yeah. So it's like a self-worth thing.

And like, I, I hate saying that, I don't know how else to say it. Maybe you have better terminology than me because when we talk about self-worth like, I never put myself worth and I don't think many people do. Like, I think they say they do, but I don't know if they, like, I don't, I don't walk around proud at the grocery store if I crush a walk workout, you know?

And I, I don't like walk around like upset, you know, grocery shopping. If, if I had a bad workout, like self-worth, to me goes a little deeper than just the workout, but I do, it was such a big part of my life that I wanted everything to kind of revolve around competing. And I don't feel that way anymore.

And because of. I don't have this addiction to like, I have to get this score and this time I have to get here at this time, I have to get this time. I have to do this twice a day. I have to do this on Sunday mornings at 6:00 AM. There are other things that I have my, my priorities on. And a lot of it happens naturally whether you want it to, or not when different things happen with work, whether your family, but there, I, I think there's a lot of people in our gym that they will have a bad day if they don't go to the.

and they associate a healthy lifestyle with going to the gym. So if they don't go to the gym, they take themselves out of that healthy lifestyle. And then it snowballs into I'm gonna eat poorly. I'm gonna drink more. And then that means that the drinking's gonna affect my sleep. Whether you realize it or not, it's affecting your sleep.

It's affecting your recovery. No question. It's not debatable at this point. And then all it's, it's all these things pile up. You're going to the gym less, you're eating more, you're drinking more, you're sleeping less. Rather than that addiction to getting to the gym, it makes you want to eat healthy. It makes you want to avoid the drinking.

You don't wanna get drunk because you're going to the 7:00 AM class. The next day you, your friends are, do like who you're involved. It it's all about this addiction to like, I feel like I'm really pursuing something. It's not bad. It's not good, but you need to be aware. That is, that is what bringing you to the gym.

You're just addicted to that lifestyle of feeling healthy.

[00:26:17] Sam Rhee: My addiction is similar or has been, it's been when I felt like I could put a really good number up on the whiteboard. Yeah. And people could look at it and daily fulfillment and they could respect it and be like, yeah, Sam did, X number of rounds.

And that was like really amongst the top scores. For a long time. If I did that, like the rest of the day, my mood would be a little bit up, like a little bit of a dopamine hit on that. And if I really crapped the bed on a workout, or I saw that like these other guys who I'm competitive with, did a lot better than me, then maybe it wasn't like a total depression, but maybe I wasn't like quiet as up as I used would be.

Yeah. And for a long time, a lot of what I did was unfortunately guided by that. Right. Oh, you know, what do I have other people's respect? Yeah. , oh, I didn't do so great on the front squat. So I really need to go back and work on my front squats. Yep. And, and that's that pushed me, unfortunately, in a way that I don't think was, was really healthy.

Yeah. And it took a lot of beat downs either from injury or Just a lot of people getting better. Yeah. I mean, listen, as you get older, there's always gonna be younger, fitter, better athletes that come in. Yep. And at, at some point you realize if you base your dopamine, your happiness, or you rely on these dopamine hits.

Yep. You're you're never gonna be happy with what you do. Yeah. Not that I don't try really hard, but I think some of it also has helped that I've become a coach. Yeah. And you see the other side and I can also live vicariously on through people. So for example the other day with Fred.

Yeah, yeah. Fred Cowell. Yeah. Yeah. Cowell. We did a workout and it was a workout I'm I'm generally pretty good at, it has burpees and it's sort of an effort workout. It's not necessarily a max lift type workout. Yep. And he beat me which yeah. Which honestly was a little shocking to me. Yep.

[00:28:08] David Syvertsen: But it, it started about nine, nine

[00:28:09] Sam Rhee: months ago.

Yeah. I mean, he's lost like 20, 30 pounds. He's gotten so fit. He's a really strong guy. That's strong guy. Yeah. Yeah. And, and when I saw that at the end of the ti at, you know, cuz we were working out, we were sharing the same lane and he was like, so what was your score? And I was like 59 and he was like, what'd you get?

I was like 62. I was like, for a second. I

[00:28:28] David Syvertsen: was like, Oh, wow. That happened.

[00:28:30] Sam Rhee: Wow. That, and then, then I was like, pissed. I was like, oh man, I should have tried a little harder. Then I said, you know what? I did try pretty hard on that one. Yeah. We'd be happy for him. And I was like, God, that's, you know, Fred, you've gotten so far yeah.

With

[00:28:42] David Syvertsen: this. Yeah. And that made me, and I remember we were talking about that at the whiteboard with Fred there. And like, honestly, it probably made his day to hear that, you know, and like it it's good. It's good. Like that's maybe what what's changed about. It's like seeing other people succeed is actually makes you happier now than

[00:28:57] Sam Rhee: it.

Doesn't it doesn't still. Yeah. Yeah. So I was a little pissed and I was like, well, you know, Fred, I helped Fred by putting his kettlebell in the right position. So he was able to transition faster. Yeah. And maybe that's why, but I still overall listen, I'm a human being. I can't not help be no, no, no like a little competitive, but the fact that I can recognize it and say, Hey, listen, Fred has come such a long way.

There are I'm. I, he should be better than me. Yeah. I just didn't realize it. And now, you see all these guys just doing better and better and better mm-hmm that, that makes me happy. That doesn't mean that listen, if I happen to beat him on another goddamn workout, I'm not gonna take a little pleasure.

watch your back Fred. Right. But it's not, but trust me. The days of sitting there expecting that I need to do this and that and do more volume because I need to be better than somebody is,

[00:29:44] David Syvertsen: is long gone. Yeah. And that's just, it's a mindset shift. Right. And I thought, really what we're talking about?

Like, do you, like if maybe four years ago, Sam, would've taken that personal, that like this guy, Fred beat him a workout and he goes home and does the workout again, like, and he gets 63. I'm like take that Fred, like just. that's where you need to avoid. Like that's where the maturity of being, you know, really being able to remove yourself from emotions and not getting addicted.

Mm-hmm to this feeling. Mm-hmm that you're the best, right? Like, again, I say this all the time, guys, like nobody knows who the best score was three weeks ago. Right. So why, like nobody knows what the best score was two days ago, because it's really not that important. And. People think about you less in that regard than when you think good or bad.

Like if you think you crush it, people will clap their hands. They're moving onto something else. Right? They have their own lives. If they think, if you did poorly, they're not thinking about it three minutes later, they're just not, but you are. And it's hard to remove yourself from that emotion all the time, but I promise you, like, I talk to people all day, seven days, a.

about this stuff. It is almost never about what someone else got unless they think they were cheating. Right. But that's another, that's a topic for another time. So this feeling, if you ever feel like an addiction or even a sense of pressure that you need to go to the gym and do more volume mm-hmm . Right.

I think that's a red flag that you need to take care of right away. That's more important than you fixing your thrusters. I'm telling you if you feel addicted to like, I love the, the feeling that I have after a workout. I truly love it. It's part of the one things, but I know that it's short lasting, right?

It's not gonna be there in a few. And it's, I'm, I'm happier about the big picture that I'm just consistently in the game. I'm working hard. I'm trying to be fit, trying to be healthy, trying to be competitive. It it's never this addiction, like if I don't get to the gym tomorrow morning, like that's the plan.

I'm not gonna let that ruin my day because. Big picture. It's just not a big deal. But if I had this short term addiction to getting into the gym, crushing myself, crushing other people, right. I think that's a red flag that eventually is gonna come back and bite you really hard. So anything else on this topic stand that you want to close with in terms of, if anyone just wants a little bit more guidance on, are they doing enough?

Are they doing too much? Are they

[00:31:56] Sam Rhee: doing too? I think talking to coaches is huge. Yep. I'll post this article it, it has some template in terms of some thoughts about how much to program and, and thoughts about programming as well. Cool. You always gotta go back to the old CrossFit journal

[00:32:07] David Syvertsen: articles.

Yeah, no. Yeah. Those guys that have been around, I do think experience helps. Like I think if you're a new CrossFitter, it helps whether it's a coach, it could be even another athlete that's been around for a long time. Just like kind of just giving some feedback and bouncing ideas off each other.

Communication is key in a lot of areas in life. And I think this is one of 'em because I know a lot of you just like, love to work out. It's a hobby of yours. You're trying to be as healthy, as competitive as possible. But there is a line that if you cross it, I think it's gonna eventually come back and rear

it's ugly head. All right. Thanks guys.