S02E70 ACUPUNCTURE FITNESS AND WELLNESS SPECIAL GUEST MARISSA LIZA L.AC. DIP.AC.

Did you know acupuncture treatment provides not just acute care for injuries, but also benefits for maintenance of long-term health and fitness? Special guest Marissa Liza @allpointsacu, licensed acupuncturist and CrossFit athlete, talks about why you should consider acupuncture BEFORE you have that flare up of your back, shoulder or elbow.

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#acupunctureworks #paramusacupuncture #rochelleparkacupuncture #livelifefeelingwell #acupuncture

S02E70 ACUPUNCTURE FITNESS AND WELLNESS SPECIAL GUEST MARISSA LIZA

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: Welcome back to the Herd Fit Podcast. I am coach David Syvertsen here with my co-host, doctor and coach Sam Marie. And we have a very special guest today. I've been eyeing this one up for a long time. Oh wow. And we finally found the right time.

It actually happens. To be about 18 hours after Marissa's first individual CrossFit competition. But this is Marissa, Eliza Marissa, how are you?

[00:00:22] Marissa Liza: Hey, good morning. Thanks for having me. I'm feeling quite good after the first solo comp. Yep, definitely good experience. Got You know, little taste .

[00:00:32] David Syvertsen: A little taste of,

[00:00:33] Marissa Liza: little taste of going from number one to number 11, but

[00:00:36] David Syvertsen: that's okay.

It's all good. No, that was it was, it was a great day yesterday. We had so many people compete. We had 15 people shout out to 9 0 8 athletics for hosting yet another awesome garden state open. I think they said it was their ninth. If I have that right, or 10th. And Marissa, along with 14 other people from our gym competed yesterday.

And you and myself. Yes. Yes. And we're both a little beat up for different reasons, . But she did awesome, really proud of her. And I, I really give her a lot of credit for waking up the next morning and coming into, and, and recording with us. So thank you again for coming in. No, thanks for having me.

So Marissa, I do let, we, we have you on for a couple different reasons here, but you. , is it what? How do I call it? Acupuncturist. Acupuncturist, yes. All right, Good. Good job. She's a very good acupuncturist that many of us at Cross at Bison have used. Obviously that's her clientele goes much deeper than that, but there's a lot of people from here and I actually got first introduced to her.

Via John Hartman so long ago in that hey, my friend Marissa, she wants to try out CrossFit, blah, blah, blah, came in and here we are about six years later, I have you sticking needles in my, my legs and my forearms. It's come a long way. Let's get into just a little bit of a brief introduction to you and just so we can the listeners kinda get a feel for who you are.

[00:01:45] Marissa Liza: So first of all, thanks for having me. Super excited to be here. I, I, first, my sort of my CrossFit side was like, I didn't think CrossFit was for me. I was just like, this is not for me. I like my, you know, spin classes and my bootcamp. And then I took my first class, actually my second class hit my nose on the barbell bled all over the place.

Poor Coach Ramson was like, Oh my God, are you okay? Left? Super embarrassed. I was like, This is not for me. So I left. Probably like six or seven months. And then I was like, All I think I'm ready to try. Nobody cares. Nobody saw, nobody's gonna remember like, you're the girl, It doesn't matter. So I came back and super happy I did because I just found like an awesome, not only workout, but community and Awesome.

It's been

[00:02:28] David Syvertsen: great. So yeah, now you've been a pleasure to work with just on, on multiple different fronts. Great influence on the gym. Thanks. And it's I'm looking forward to the future as well. So. Let's discuss your background like pre CrossFit. You can go back, as far as possible if you.

what led you to your current career in acupuncture? Sure.

[00:02:46] Marissa Liza: So kind of a cool, cool story. The way it happened is I really loved performing and the arts and dams and singing, and I wanted it because I really loved connecting with people. I just thought that when people would go and see a show or see a concert like you feel really good after, so I thought that would be a great.

Career for me, I liked it. So I wasn't really a college person, didn't wanna go to college. My parents were fine with that. They were like, As soon as you graduate high school, as long as you work and you're figuring it out, you're good. So I was sort of working and auditioning and finding opportunities and

Then I was working out at this gym in Paramus and this woman that I worked out with said, Hey, I work for this acupuncturist. They're looking for somebody to work like a couple hours here and there to manage the office. Would you wanna try it? Cool. And I was like, Yeah, sure. You know, I needed to make money.

So I started there and that was really like my first introduction. Oh, sweet. And it actually happened to be in the office that I now run and really rent. Yeah. So it's creature of habit. Yeah. That's awesome. So I was my first introduction and I was their front desk and. Ended up staying there for many years, probably about four or five years.

And I liked creating a nice atmosphere where people came in, they felt warm and and welcome and they got good care and they were really getting better. And I was like, Wow, this is really cool. Yeah. And then I started doing it and I started getting better, you know, feeling the results of this and like, this is pretty awesome.

So fast forward. I was like I don't know what to do anymore. Like, I, I wasn't getting hired. I mean, I really wasn't that good, like, as a dancer, a performing artist, like Right. It wasn't, I was not gonna make money at it. It was fun, but it certainly wasn't gonna be a career. Right. And then I left that office and I worked at another practice, which was a much bigger practice.

It was a totally different feel. It was just like, You know, how many people can we see? How many patients can we treat? How much money can we bring in? Had like more of like a corporate feel. Yeah, corporate feel. Yeah. And that was like my first introduction to like, I never wanna be like this. Right? And then somebody's like, Why don't you go back to school?

I'm like, I'm not a school person. And sort of like, you just get to a point where like, I need to make a change. I need to do something. And I was 27 at the time and I was like, That's it. And I just took a risk and was like, I'm gonna go back to school. And that was sort of it. Wow. I mean, I even had my, I had, I had no associates.

I had didn't have a bachelor's, so I had to get my bachelor's degree and then I had to go on to acupuncture school.

[00:05:01] David Syvertsen: It's funny though, we just had like a conversation with some people after the gym. Like sometimes some of the best conversations you have in the gym are after a workout. Yeah. Like you're just, you know, you're fired up.

The endorphins are running. You're a little bit more vulnerable at that point. And one of the best conversations I had in the past week or two is with Anthony from the 7:00 AM just talking about kids and how expensive colleges now these days and you know, how much pressure these 16 year olds have on them to figure out what they want to do with the rest of their life.

You just don't know. And some, and honestly, some kids are blessed with, they know right away what they wanna do, but that path to don't go to college because you don't really know yet, and then you actually go into the work. and you actually start to see, all right, this is what life is like. If I do something like this is the kind of impact, this is how happy I am in this line of work.

That was the path that you took and you started that education, you said when you were around 27? Yeah. What was the actual education process like? How long did you have to do? You know, how, how long were you in school for that? I

[00:05:56] Marissa Liza: was in school total of six years. I had to do, I had to get my bachelor's degree, so had to do that first.

Yeah. No, I had, I had to get an associate's to get into acupuncture school. Got it. But New Jersey requires you to have a bachelor's degree to get an acupuncture license. Interesting. So, I did like, I kind of found an adult program. It was actually kind of funny cuz I started, I went back to Bergen community and I'm like 27 years old and the class was 17 year olds and I'm be quiet.

I'm trying to learn here. Please. Like, at that point I was so into school where it was like I'd quit three times earlier. So it, it was funny just sort of being like really into school at that time. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so I got my bachelor's degree and then I went to acupuncture school, which was four. And yeah, then we had to take, So acupuncture school, I have my master's in acupuncture.

You can go on and get your doctorate. Okay. I do not have that. There are a lot of providers that do. Okay. And then it is three board exams and then a New Jersey exam to get your license. So that is a process. Yeah. So, yeah. And you know, it's, it's, it's funny I say that because a lot, sometimes they'll have patients, they'll come in and they'll say, you know, Did you go to school for this?

I'm like, Yeah, I did. Yeah, Yeah. Oh, for sure. And it's worse, so they just don't know. Yeah. Maybe they learned it from somebody else or you know, And that we have strict rules and regulations and education so we can provide good.

[00:07:10] David Syvertsen: Care. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That, So now you're, you're, you're done with school. Yeah.

And you start working for practice mm-hmm. . And was it that, that's the one that you're at right now? You went, you were at that location?

[00:07:21] Marissa Liza: No, I actually started in one other practice while I was starting my own practice. Okay. So I worked one day and in one office, and then I was sort of also building my own.

Okay. Back in the office that I'm in now. Okay. And I was working for somebody and it worked well. It was a good opportunity because you get outta school and it's just, Oh, there's a patient there. Yeah. And you know, there's no supervisor there. Right. You know, it's a whole other experience. Even though in acupuncture school year last year, you're treating patients the whole year.

Right. But so that was a good way to sort of get used to treating patients on my own. Exactly.

[00:07:53] David Syvertsen: Yeah. So, well that also we can probably relate to each other on this is, you know, you had this passion for acupuncture, you went through all this training, you're ready to go. What was it like to try to transition from, Hey, I'm passionate about acupuncture, I wanna do this to, At the same time you're also trying to build a business.

Yeah. At some point, like you, that is what it is. Sure. If you really like, strip everything down to the bones. It's a business. It's a business. And just briefly talk about some of the, the you know, the highs and lows that. Building a business within your passion kind of brought to you?

[00:08:22] Marissa Liza: I think probably the biggest thing was I wanted to help everyone and mm-hmm.

I didn't, I was like, I just wanna help people. Help people, help people. And I was scheduling above my office working hours. Yeah. I was not charging people. Cause they're like, Oh, I can't really, I'm like, Oh, don't worry about it. Yeah. I'm like, You wanna do, That's fine. Yep. You know, and, but I just wanted to introduce them to such an awesome.

Medicine and say, I can really

[00:08:44] David Syvertsen: help you. I mean, I would even say at the start, that's necessary. I get, in some cases, in some cases at some point

[00:08:49] Marissa Liza: you have to cut that off. Yeah, yeah. You know, and then also trying to get out there and promote yourself and, I mean, I didn't know how to market. I still don't know how to market.

I really don't like, and I don't enjoy it like this. Thank you for this cuz this is like, I just wanna talk to people and educate them. Yeah. And then they can make an informed decision Yeah. About their care. Yep. And I think that was probably the biggest thing was, was learning that I. just take, there are certain people that I will not be able to help and sort of to set boundaries with yourself as.

As

[00:09:20] David Syvertsen: a provider. Yeah. Sam, any opening thoughts? Yeah, it is just so interesting

[00:09:24] Sam Rhee: I actually think both of you guys have some parallels in terms of life choice. Yeah. And I think it

[00:09:28] David Syvertsen: resonates with you, Dave. Yep. I was just nodding my head hard over here while she was talking , because

[00:09:33] Sam Rhee: neither of you knew at age 18 or you know, or 21 exactly what you wanted to do.

Yep. And you guys were working and doing stuff, but it wasn't what really worked for you guys. Mm-hmm. and then. Uh, Found acupuncture and was really turned on by it. Mm-hmm. , you found CrossFit was really turned on by it. Mm-hmm. . She spent years doing all this extra training and certification.

Yep. And then you spent a weekend getting your L one and

[00:09:57] David Syvertsen: then you were off. It's so true. So similar. I can't believe it. That schooling was so hard, but man, I can't read that L one test. Oh

[00:10:06] Sam Rhee: man,

[00:10:09] David Syvertsen: pretty sure asking the guy for an answers as I take my test .

[00:10:14] Sam Rhee: So, but, but again, following your dream and, and finding what really drives you as a passion takes time sometimes. And once you do it, you know, , it's

[00:10:23] David Syvertsen: the right thing. Yeah. Yes. Yep. Yes. You know, and, and I'm sure Marisa could probably relate to this as well as, you know, on the flip side of that, sometimes when you are doing something you're very passionate about for work, you know, you get that line like, Oh, you, if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life.

Like that line is complete garbage in my eyes. You know, there are. It sometimes because you're so passionate about what you do and it is your, like, your passion and hobby or actual your work it actually can make you overwork yourself sometimes. Totally. You know, and I'm sure we'll kind of get into that.

Yeah. You know, at some point I also wanna talk about acupuncture and what people can get outta this, but I also wanna talk about your business and where you plan to take it. But let's kind of dive into the meat of. And, and really trying to look at this from the perspective of a CrossFitter or someone you know, outside of CrossFit that's very active with their body.

Right. I personally, and Sam, you can give your experience too with Marissa. I've personally have been to acupuncture with Marissa. I can't, I mean, probably a, a few dozen times I would say. And it's usually because Marissa, I just got hurt at the gym and I'm competing in three weeks. , can you fix.

[00:11:28] Marissa Liza: Oh wait, this is, And I tell you, this was like a really good learning lesson.

Yeah. Like when you came in right before he went to Legends last. Yeah. Right. Yep. Like Dave came in and he had this forum issue. Yeah. Forearm. And I was like, Okay, I really wanna help you. But you know what? Like you sort of have to say, this is also not my responsibility. I don't mean that in a bad way. No, no.

He was just like, I'm gonna do the best that I can for. and that's it. We talk

[00:11:52] Sam Rhee: about that as coaches all the time. Yeah, we talked about that on the podcast. Yeah. With athletes

[00:11:56] David Syvertsen: and coaching athletes. Right? Yeah. And it's, it's, it actually is, and I. I remember when she would tell this to me, it's almost like a sit down like, All right Dave, like we're gonna do this and this and this.

But just so you know, this might not fix you the way you want to be fixed because you're so close to the, It was weeks away from the comp and it was a pretty significant to the point. I couldn't hang from a pull-up bar, you know, weeks out of a comp. Right. And But I immediately, before she was even finishing her sentences, I knew exactly what she was gonna say and I was completely understood.

Yeah. And that acupuncture, in any form of treatment is meant to maybe get the ball rolling and help, but it's not going to solve the issue. And it's not. And I never want her or any PT that's ever worked on me to feel pressure that like, Hey, if I'm not ready to go in a few weeks, it's your fault. You know?

Like, just like we would never want someone that says, I didn't hit my fitness goal in the gym, Dave. Like, that's my coach's fault. You know, we, we really kind of have to separate, she has to separate herself from the results of every single person that comes in. So I've used, I bring that up because I've used Marissa to help solve.

Injury issues. And I know when there's an injury, let's say there's 10 things that are gonna help me get better. This is one of them. It's not the one of one. Right? And that I can confidently say that with both things in the past year. That I've, I really have needed help with acupuncture helped. And I'm not saying that because Marissa's here, like I would say it to anyone.

I've told people outside off camera, not with a big shiny light in my face, right. As we're, you know, talking about Marissa's business, it genuinely helped and. I wanna kind of get into that side of it first. Sam, what have you used acupuncture for? Desperation

[00:13:41] Sam Rhee: again as well. Yeah.

[00:13:42] David Syvertsen: You know, something new to try, right?

Because the fair guns wasn't

[00:13:46] Sam Rhee: working right. Right. That's exactly right. You know, CrossFitters are a desperate lot. You know, we will rely on talman and, and. We'll do anything to try to get back in a, in a very fast fashion, once we self-abuse ourselves and injure ourselves. Right? Sure. Right. And it was no different over the years, I've done lots of different treatments for lots of different injuries that were all self-inflicted.

Yeah. Most of it was too much volume. Yep. Overuse, bad form. You know, things that you learn as you go along. Right. But it was the same thing. It was an elbow issue. Mm-hmm. and it was acute. And I was desperate because I think the open was coming up. Yeah. And so, I don't like seeing providers. It's no offense to Marissa.

Sure. Any provider, like Right. I guess it's one of those, Since I'm a provider, I just don't wanna bother anyone. Right. I don't wanna, That's part of it. It is, It is. Deal. You know, make anyone deal with my problems. I feel like, I'm a physician, I should be able to handle myself and figure out what's going on and take care of myself.

Right. So it took a pretty. Tendonitis to really get me to see somebody. Mm-hmm. And I saw Marissa and I would say I'd never had acupuncture before. I was one of the very same people like everyone else who's very apprehensive, needles, blah, blah, blah.

Yep. And I went and. She has a great demeanor. Yep. She's very straightforward, you know, Knows her stuff, knows her stuff. New to start me light and not go full intensity. . In terms of treatment, I really would've never seen

[00:15:13] Marissa Liza: another provider ever

[00:15:14] David Syvertsen: again, ,

[00:15:15] Sam Rhee: Right? So she gauged me appropriately. Got treatment and I would say the number one thing I remember is it was a relatively pleasant feeling.

Yeah, I kind of a little numb. Acutely better. Didn't make it, you know, permanently better, right? But I just came outta there saying, Okay.

[00:15:32] David Syvertsen: You came out like one, one to 5% better than you came in. Yeah. That's really at that point when you were desperate

[00:15:37] Sam Rhee: like that, that's all you really want. Yeah. Yeah. And that combined with some rest and you know, she kept following up with me, but I didn't keep bugging her about it.

I was like, Okay, I know what I really need to do with this. Sure. Right. And. That's it. Yeah. I think as CrossFitters we tend to, especially when we're so enthusiastic and we are so excited and we really wanna get better at so many different things. Yeah. We really push and I see it every day as a coach.

Yeah. When I talk to people, they're in the gym on a Wednesday and I'm like, Why are you here? I thought your shoulder wasn't feeling so great and we're doing like a million pull-ups, . They're like, Well, you know, this is my therapy and I need to come. Yeah. And I understand that. Yes. And I don't have a problem.

I really try to work with the athletes. Yep. But listen, sometimes things do flare. Sometimes we have issues that even to the best of our ability, we still have. Things that get sore, have problems. Right. Things that we need help managing. Right. And I would say that one of the first things, if that were to happen again, cuz it can happen to anyone working out for any reason.

Mm-hmm. , I would go seek acupuncture treatment.

[00:16:42] David Syvertsen: Cool. Yeah. Thanks. So, Marissa Yeah, we, we just talked about some physical issues that we've both had Right. And let's get into that side of it first. Cause I know there's a whole nother side or multiple sides to acupuncture. Yes. It's not just like, Hey, you're hurt.

Here's your desperation, needle to the arm. Hopefully it helps, right? Mm-hmm. , what do you want CrossFitters to know? Or people that are very active that use acupuncture for physical? Repair. What, what are, what are things you want them to know if they're gonna come to you and say like, Hey, I have this issue.

Can you help me out?

[00:17:10] Marissa Liza: Sure. Well, I think one of the first things I want people to understand is that the more you ignore a problem, it's not gonna go away. And I would hope that acupuncture. Would be sort of their first line of treatment. Okay. Where it's like, all right, you know what my, I got some neck pain.

My neck's a little cranky, or I've been sort of having this back pain and I roll it out, but it's really not getting better. We tend not just as CrossFitters, I think just as individuals to sort of make excuses. Right. We're just like, Oh yeah, well, you know, got a little older. Yeah. Or you know, I sat down too long.

You really, you don't need to do that. Right, Right. We sort of make excuses for that. So, I would hope that somebody would say, Let me, It's almost like the fire alarm is, the smoke alarm is going off. There's a fire. Right? Right. The more you keep ignoring it, the worse it's gonna get. So I should get some form of treatment.

And I do think that we need as much as we can stretch and roll out and it's really important. I think we, we definitely, another. Whether it's acupuncture or somebody else working on us, we all need soft tissue work. Okay. We, and that's where acupuncture is really good. And the big thing that we CrossFit, or I say people don't understand is the role of how we train so hard all the time and what that does to our nervous system.

Mm-hmm. . And that's a huge thing. Yeah. A lot of us, we come in, you know, whether you're training hard or whether you're just doing this for fitness and fun, it's, it's still a big stress on a nervous system and a lot of intensity. It's a lot of intensity. And we leave here and I, I mean, I give so much credit to so many people here.

I mean, I look at them and I'm like, How do you do that? And then go home and take care of your children and then work, And it's like, it's amazing that we do this and it's, but it's like this constant, like always on op, operating at this level. And that we also don't give ourselves enough credit to say like, Oh, I'm not sure why I don't feel so well.

Yeah. Or I'm like, Cuz you are always doing something on. Yeah. Right. And that's where acupuncture is really good because it, it gives your nervous system a rest. And I think that's one of the re when they say, you know, how does acupuncture help heal yourself? Yep. It, because it forces your body to go into that.

Paray parasympathetic state or out of that fight or flight. Right. You know, which we are in that fight or flight, even if it's a good one. Right? Yeah. Even if it's a good stress, we're still in that state. Yep, yep. So it's forcing your body out of that. Yeah. And sort of just giving it, giving, nurturing your body back.

So

[00:19:32] David Syvertsen: explain in layman's terms like if someone. You know, just has no idea like what actually is happening inside my body. Mm-hmm. , like you just briefly touched on it. You know, if I come in and I am trying to prevent an injury, rather than treat an injury, me and Sam were more like, Hey, we're trying to treat an injury.

Okay. But if I'm really trying to prevent something, what does acupuncture actually do to the mind and body when I'm coming in? And whether it's weekly treatment, biweekly treatment to help me prevent from getting hurt. The, the

[00:20:00] Marissa Liza: best way I describe acupuncture is we've all been stuck in traffic around Bergen.

Yeah, right. Always been wanna go somewhere. We're sitting there, we wanna get someplace, you know, we're sitting there, we get annoyed, we get aggravated. And then as soon as you find out what's going on and you see traffic lightening up, it's like Ah. Right. You just sort of like, just take a deep breath. Yep.

It really is the same thing that happens in our body. Okay. I mean, acupuncture is based on a meridian system where we have, you know, I hate to say the word chi, but it's chi, it's blood energy, oxygen lymphatic system. Yep. And when we're stressed out, whether it's good stress of acupuncture, excuse me, of CrossFit or just stress of life, everything gets locked.

Our body just becomes locked up. Mm-hmm. . And so acupuncture just sort of frees the energy or just like we free the traffic. Right. That's really the best way to explain. Oh, that's a great visual. How it, how it works. And it, and it's almost like, like when your cell phone's not working or anything's not working, you're just like, Let me unplug it for a while and then it sort of resets.

It's the same thing. And that's

[00:20:58] David Syvertsen: where like I really do think that the mind and body connection is, is huge with acupuncture. Yes. Right? Yes. Like, because like a lot of our physical issues come from the mental stress. Yeah. We just did a three part series with Shawn O'Hara. On mental health and how much it really does relate to your physical health.

And

[00:21:13] Marissa Liza: I mean, if you open a Chinese medicine textbook, it's like, what are the causes of disease? And it's emotions, it's stress, it's weather, it's diet. I mean, it's not, this is sort of this really old 2000 year old medicine, but it really can relate to modern Yeah.

[00:21:29] David Syvertsen: Times. I mean, I, and I could tell because I kind of wanna like shift this to like the mental side of this too, is you, you do treat people that don't necessarily have physical issues, right?

Correct. A lot of them. Whether it's anxiety issues or they want the relaxation period. Whenever I've been to Marissa, Right. You know, she sticks all the needles in. Sometimes they heard some, I never act like they heard, but , you good? Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm totally, She's like, Dave, you're shaking. Relax. I'm like, I'm fine

[00:21:54] Marissa Liza: j you might might need to go home and change your clothes again

[00:21:56] David Syvertsen: cause you're sweating.

But when she leaves the room, she's done sticking the adults in. Right. She leaves, she goes, she shuts the lights off. , It's like a 15 minute period

[00:22:06] Marissa Liza: ish. Yeah. Like,

[00:22:07] David Syvertsen: 20, a little over 20 minutes. Okay. A little over 20 minutes. And it's, you know, you fall asleep, but not quite. You kind of d. And I'm telling you like in that moment when she comes in, it is like the most relaxed, I think.

I feel. And it's almost like to the point I have a hard time driving because I'm so groggy. Yes. Because I just got out of that like, you know, fight or flight like you just said. Let's talk briefly about like the mental side of things and what you think people could use this for that are just constantly on and stressed.

[00:22:35] Marissa Liza: It. I mean, again, I keep going back to the nervous system, but I just, it manifests in so many ways. Like you just see people that are, they're irritable or they have, you know, short fuses or a lot of the things that I like to treat are digestive issues. Okay. You know, sometimes, Stress goes at different parts of our body.

It's not always our back, our shoulders, our neck, you know, we get nervous stomach or we just feel like this feeling of a little bit outta control. And you especially see it now, you know, post pandemic. It's, you know, all those times where it was like, do I send my kids to school? Do I not send my suit to school?

How am I gonna work out? Do I not work out? Mm-hmm. , you know, who got sick at the gym? You know, like, I mean, it's just like constantly bing, bing, ping, bing, bing. And so, , it's really helping sort of take that mental state down and making you, I shouldn't say, you know, every medicine has its limitations.

Correct. Right. Like I don't think acupuncture is the cure all, be all for everything. And I think that medicine is really a combination. Of, and healthcare is a combination of a lot of different things, but acupuncture can help you manage life better. Okay. Right. Whereas I tell people, like, they're not gonna notice like, Oh, I'm so anxiety free right now.

Right? Mm-hmm. , like, Right. There's always gonna be stresses in your life, but it's like maybe the things that made you want. And say, yell at your kid or something. Right. Or just like get frustrated. Like your, your body is just down a couple notches where it's like, alright, I can, I feel more control. Right. I can manage this better.

Okay. Right. So you don't get to that point where you feel like I'm, I've, I've lost it. Right. It's,

[00:24:05] David Syvertsen: I mean, it's very similar to someone that comes to the gym and says like, I want to get to, you know, I want to lose weight down to here. I want to get to this level of performance, or I want to get to this level of just sheer health, right?

We always say it's never gonna be one thing. It's not gonna be just coming to the gym. It's not gonna just be, you know, avoiding too much alcohol or too, you know, watching your diet. It's just the sum of all these things. And you know, to avoid like that stress and anxiety level, when you lose it, you lose your cool, we've all done it before.

Right? And you lose control of your emotions. This is just another part to what you can do. You know, some people are into meditation and breathing, right? You know, some acupuncture can just be like another, you know, bullet point under are you really trying to avoid stress? And stress is such a killer. Yes.

You know, we really. I've learned more about that during the pandemic and after, since with myself and other people. Stress is such a killer, and if we can find little things here and there to help combat that, you just have that much more of advantage to avoid those, those, you know, deep, deep lows.

Right? Yeah. Sam, any thoughts? Yeah, there

[00:25:05] Sam Rhee: are so many correlates in science that we take for granted. Acupuncture works in concert with, for example, our, Whoops, what is it measuring like so many people have? Whoops. It's measuring heart rate variability, which is a balance of your sympathetic and your parasympathetic nervous system, right?

So for most of us, when we get stressed, as Marisa said, our sympathetic system, Gets upregulated. We have a lot of stress hormones, cortisol, blood flow gets restricted to the gut because that's what happens in flight or flight. You don't need your gut to work, right? You just need to all the energy and blood, and oxygen to go to your skeletal muscle so you can, run away from the tiger or whatever it is,

And if you're in that constant state, whether it be. Over training or stress in your life, You know, these are the kind of things where your heart rate variability starts flat lining because your sympathetic nervous system. Over dominant. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So any of these things, including acupuncture, which help you work the other end of it, which is the parasympathetics.

Mm-hmm. , you know, help you. That why, of course it would help you with your digestion if you were limiting blood flow to your gut. You know, of course, you know, we know Parasympathetics regulate the. Gut systems tremendously. We know it regulates our mind tremendously. They're developing vag nerve stimulators, not for.

Physical conditions, but for mental conditions now they're surgically implanting vagal nerve stimulators. Whoa. Vagus nerve is one of the biggest nervous system related It controls the parasympathetics. Yep. So when you look at the science behind it, and then you see what acupuncture does, and you're like, Wait, how can it help me with my stress?

How can it help me with my gut? How can it help me with, healing? It makes sense because the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system regulate like 500 million different things in our body. Wow, okay. And so that's why it works well for a variety of things. But it's more of a conditional.

Thing. Right? It's like it's helping to, as Marissa said, unblock or maybe just like clear the skies a little bit, you know, that sort of thing. So you're, so conditions are better for you to do whatever

[00:27:17] David Syvertsen: else you, you need to do. Yes. Back to that traffic analogy. Well, yeah, exactly.

[00:27:21] Marissa Liza: Spread analogy. And if we go back to, you know, anatomy, simple anatomy 1 0 1, it's like all the systems in our body are already there.

Mm-hmm. , right? The systems are already in place. We just sort. Then we mess with them. Right? Right. Stress mess with them, Life messes with them. But when you clear the sky, it's always like, okay, let's just, we can go back to it. And you know, a lot of times people seek acupuncture as sort of their last resort.

Mm-hmm. . And I would just hope that this would be sort of the first thing that they might wanna try

[00:27:48] David Syvertsen: so that my next, my. Bullet point that I wanted to get to next. What are three things that you wish everyone knew about acupuncture and you know, is one of them that like, hey, that should be, this should be your first

[00:27:58] Marissa Liza: line of defense.

I do think that it should be your, one of the first things you seek out. Because oftentimes it's, and not just with CrossFitters, with really anybody, they sort of gone through, you know, they've gone to the doctor, they've got all the blood work, everything's normal, everything's fine. Maybe they've gotten an MRI and it's like, I have herniated disc.

And not to say that that's a bad, that's the diagnosis according to that, but that may or not. Be the reason why they have symptoms and sort of they're coming in as this last resort. And that also is like, when, when is this gonna work? When is this gonna work? And it's like I have to explain to them that the longer it's been going on, the longer it's gonna take for it to work.

That's a good line. Yep. So I would hope that they might be the first thing that they choose. And, and also trust that I've had a lot of patients come in where I've said, You know what? You're, you need to see a doctor first. Okay. And understand that we have enough training to say, You know, get this checked out first, then come back to me.

[00:28:50] David Syvertsen: Or that's when, you know, like Marissa is in your corner. She's not just trying to take your money. You know, because like in some cases, I'm sure there are some people out there be like, just keep trying to work on you for the business sake of it. And again, it's hard to find, sometimes it is hard to find that line of service and business.

Right. Pay your bills and help people. Right? Sure. And but the fact that she would actually, you know, refute. Refuse your business for the fact that you have to go see a doctor is it's a good sign that you know she has your best interest in heart.

[00:29:16] Marissa Liza: Thanks. Yeah. Just, you know, I always tell people it's about whether it's my job.

I think as a healthcare provider, whether it's with acupuncture or somebody else, we wanna find you. We just wanna get you, Well, yeah. Whatever it is, Whether it's me or somebody else, find a path to get you out. So,

[00:29:30] David Syvertsen: So that's number one. Or maybe number one. Number one.

[00:29:32] Marissa Liza: What's number two? That Number two.

It's not a painful experience. Okay. It's really not a painful experience. The acupuncture needles are nothing like getting blood drawn. They're nothing like getting an injection. Agreed. It, it really is probably one of the most relaxing.

[00:29:46] David Syvertsen: It is. Does

[00:29:46] Sam Rhee: it hurt you at all,

[00:29:47] David Syvertsen: Dave? You were saying it hurts. Well, you tell me this, Marissa, because my answer is no, but there are.

There are times where she gets more aggressive than others because we're trying to fix something and I'm like, Marissa, you can cut me open if you want, if it's gonna help me get better. But you tell me there's different levels and different needles. I remember you talking to me about that. , You know, to me, I never really thought it was painful, but every now and then I get, Ooh, that felt kind of funny.

[00:30:13] Marissa Liza: Sure. So, one of the ways that I treat muscular pain is through trigger points or what we call like ashi points in Chinese medicine. It's just these really tight, tight muscles and you get these tight muscle fibers and it's like you have a picture of muscle fiber, like a rubber band, and you keep tying a knot in that rubber band, right?

And it loses its range of motion and you're not able. Perform and function well and the acupuncture sort of goes in and releases that muscle. And that's when you feel that sort of jump, that twitch, which some people like it, a lot of people don't

[00:30:40] David Syvertsen: like it. It's more of like a, it's not even pain, it's

[00:30:42] Marissa Liza: more like a shock.

Yeah. It's just, it's it's a muscle like ation. Yeah. But also like a muscle is electrically charged. Right. So when you release that, like you sort of, it also helps restore normal function. Maybe that would be a little bit of the painful part of acupuncture, but I don't do that. Yeah.

[00:30:59] David Syvertsen: With everybody. Now, if, if someone just comes in for the relaxation, like again, you have people that come in that are just trying to decompress mm-hmm.

that kind of treatment is different than the

[00:31:06] Marissa Liza: soft tissue. A little bit. Okay. Yes, it's different, but all of acupuncture, it's never just, let's just treat the problem. Right. Right. We're always treating the whole body. Right. So there's. Relaxation part of it. Okay. But generally it's not a painful experience.

[00:31:19] David Syvertsen: Completely agree. Yeah. And yeah, and I'm, I'm not a huge needle person, but I have never been there and not wanted to ghost because of the pain. Like ever, I've never been to an acupuncture appointment like, Man, this really hurts a lot. It's, it's more just like a quick little shock, but it's so much, it's not even comparable.

Some people, again, they associate needles with getting blood drawn. It's nothing like that. Yeah,

[00:31:39] Sam Rhee: it's nothing close. I mean, Basically as thin as human hair is almost, it can

[00:31:43] David Syvertsen: barely small see it. So like, I can't, even when she takes 'em out, I can't even feel them coming out. It's like, I just like feel her like fingers touch my, like whatever is being treated and you don't even feel the needle coming out and

[00:31:54] Marissa Liza: there's no blood.

I mean, if there is blood, it's literally like a drop of blood and that's it. So definitely not that. And mostly it's just really to understand that it's a process mm-hmm. and that it's not, it's not a miracle cure. Right. Right. It's not. It's based on. Science, it's gonna take time. And most people are not gonna be fixed within one

[00:32:14] David Syvertsen: visit.

Right. I mean, anything that guarantees it to be fixed right away is a lie. , you know, they're just trying to take your money, you know? Yeah,

[00:32:20] Marissa Liza: Yeah. And it's also saying, you know, again, something I've had to learn, and I'm sure you've, maybe you've had to learn to as a provider, like managing their expectations, right?

Saying like, All right, well, you know, you've had this for two years and, but you don't wanna, And just as a coach, right? Yeah. But you don't wanna do this, this, and this. Yep. You know, but sort of also then like guiding them to this place too, of saying like, I can really help you if you just like,

[00:32:43] David Syvertsen: Yeah, I don't know, not do this.

It's an, it's an art to find the proper blend of being brutally honest. Yeah. And also making it soft enough to encourage them and want to take the steps in the right direction. You know, that's, that's where there's a lot of, there is a lot of science in what you do, but there's a lot of art in what you do with the inter.

Yeah. You know, interactions with people.

[00:33:04] Marissa Liza: Yeah. I just really, I just want people to feel good. Yep. That's it. I mean, really likes as simple as it gets. Yeah. It's really as simple as it gets. Yeah. I just wanna help you within whatever capacity that you wanna be helped. Yep. Feel good. You get through life feeling better.

Yep.

[00:33:16] David Syvertsen: That's, that's what it's about. Now that, so we had, number one was this should be the first form, treatment number two was, it's not painful. What's the number three thing you want people to know about acupuncture?

[00:33:26] Marissa Liza: You know, I wrote this down and maybe it's not gonna relate to what you asked, but That's alright. It's. We, I've seen people just to be nice to themselves and not put so much pressure on themselves.

Mm-hmm. really? Yeah. Like trust your body, you know, know that it's capable of awesome things. If you just give it, give it a chance. Yeah. Like really just. Give it a chance

[00:33:48] David Syvertsen: to heal

[00:33:49] Marissa Liza: fully. Support that. Yeah. And don't be so, you know, Oh, I gotta do this and I gotta do this, and I gotta do that. And then they sort of like come in and it's just like, there's so many patients that like, I, you know, and maybe I get too involved in like the mental aspect and I have to remind myself like, I'm not, I'm not your therapist.

I don't know. That

[00:34:04] Sam Rhee: sounds like Dave to

[00:34:05] David Syvertsen: a t, right?

I know Marisa probably, well, maybe we'll have another episode with Marisa. We'll just give stories the entire time. ,

[00:34:17] Marissa Liza: watch your ratings go. Way better, . That's enough of that. Yeah, just to be, be easy on yourself about, you know,

[00:34:24] David Syvertsen: here's a question I have in regard to like, just for myself, but also I'm sure other people would have.

You know, acupuncture. Agree. First, first form treatment. Should you combine acupuncture with other forms of treatment? Like should I see Marissa lies on this day, my PT on this day, my chiropractor on this day? What are your thoughts on that?

[00:34:46] Marissa Liza: I don't believe it should all happen in one day. I think that just as similar in training, right?

You're not really gonna feel the results of it maybe for about a week or two later, or even months later. But I think doing too much can be counterproductive. Okay. I'm not saying that you shouldn't do maybe at the same time. But I also do think it's a matter of finding out what works, right? So if you're doing too much, then it's like, was it the acupuncture?

Was it, was it the pt? Was it the chiropractor? I think each one definitely helps within their own capacity. But it's, I would recommend doing one for an. Period of time seeing where that works. And then maybe something else will do something that acupuncture couldn't help you with. Okay. Right. Like, you know, you can come in for back pain and I can cure your back pain, but then if you're not learning proper mechanics, you're gonna be in that same spot.

So that's where other providers are gonna be. There's

[00:35:35] Sam Rhee: probably an induction period and then a maintenance period for some of these things. And if you look at these CrossFit athletes, Do a lot of, as you mentioned, everyone needs soft tissue work or body work, and they do that and in addition, they mix in some.

other forms of treatment like acupuncture. I've seen that with the, the pro CrossFit athletes. What do you think of cupping? I see a lot of athletes involved in cupping and do you have any comments on

[00:36:00] David Syvertsen: that?

[00:36:01] Marissa Liza: I do believe in cupping. It sort of took off after Michael Phelps, right? He, that was, he was the sort of one that brought it.

I think it'd be, could be very effective. I don't do it because everybody else does it now. Right, right. Like, you know, he's like, Oh, I went to my massage therapist and they put cups in me. Okay, great. You know, like, I'm not gonna do that cuz it, you don't really need a license to do cupping. Yeah. You know, somebody can just take a course, I'm gonna stick to the needles.

Yeah. Cupping is really good to help get all that, you know, muscle fatigue out. Right. It's pulling that to the surface. That's why you see the bruises on there, which are not painful. It's not anything bad. Mm-hmm. . It's not, it's not. Bruise where you're gonna touch and it's gonna hurt. But yeah, I do think it's effective.

It's just not something that I choose to do. Mm-hmm. . So,

[00:36:47] David Syvertsen: Now is there, so we, we've talked about how, who this can help. How can help them is, have you ever seen, just off the top of your head, with all of your experience that you have, are there certain kinds of people that you don't think, is there like a general baseline, common ground within people that do not respond well to Acupunc?

Yes, I'm big on everyone should try it. I am big on that. And I say the same thing about cross it, but I will also say cross. It's not for everyone. Cross it. Bison's not for everyone. You know, us coaches, we're not gonna be the best coach for everyone. Is there, is there anyone that you kind of have seen in the past without obviously naming names that's like, it's just not working for them?

[00:37:28] Marissa Liza: Yes. It's more so just somebody that. They want the quick fix. Yeah. They want you to come in. They wanna be better into visits and they, they don't wanna do anything outside of treatment. Mm-hmm. and.

[00:37:40] David Syvertsen: Right. That's okay. Yeah. Like, and they don't follow like this whole, like the system, the, the process, right?

Like I know that on days you've been a bit more aggressive with me in acupuncture. Like, Hey, like, don't go out. Mm-hmm. , I'm like, Man, I really like baseball. . Yeah. But I won't. And like I, whenever provided like you or, or Hartman or Marty, if you've ever told me like, Hey, don't do this, or Don't go work out. Or don't work out before, I always will always.

And I've seen the opposite side of that with acupuncture with you, where I know someone was not supposed to be working out, but they were. And because again, it's, it's their, it's their therapy, right? Sam? It's like, Oh, no, no, I need it. Like, you think you need it, You don't really need, right? You want, you have to know that difference between need and want.

I would think that maybe someone. That wants to put their own spin on things. Hey, I should be done. I should be better in two visits. I need this to fix this problem right away. Even though I've had it for five years and I've been to Marissa twice. That's the kind of person that would be probably a little bit harder to work with.

[00:38:36] Marissa Liza: Yeah. But I think too, I've gotten better at. Saying this is what do, what, what do you expect from treatment? Mm-hmm. , I now ask that question. Right? And then if they say, Well, I expect to be better in three visits, then I can say, Well, you're not . And then they, and, and then they can make an informed decision rather than them saying, Oh, okay.

You know, And honestly, I do struggle with as a, as a CrossFitter, like, I'm like, Oh, I, I've, this kind of hurts, but I, I really wanna do this. And I tell people, if you're not going to take the time off mm-hmm. or not do, then it's just gonna. A little bit harder to get you better. Yeah. Or you're not gonna get as better as you thought.

Right. And as long as they know that.

[00:39:15] David Syvertsen: Yep,

[00:39:15] Sam Rhee: that's fine. Okay. Every time I've used a treatment to try to maintain something, like, Okay, I'm on this training regimen, or I'm doing this amount of volume and it's hurting me, but if I do this like acupuncture, it'll allow me to keep. Squatting three days a week, or working on my ring muscle ups, or trying to do high volume.

This, that is a recipe for disaster. This is not supposed to allow you to do something that hurts you every time you do it. Right. But that's how we think about as CrossFitters. Yep. It's like, you know what I, I can't do what I wanna do because it's hurting me, so I'm going to use this treatment so that I can

[00:39:53] David Syvertsen: keep doing that.

Right. You know what's

[00:39:55] Sam Rhee: really the problem,

[00:39:57] David Syvertsen: the underlying problem. Yeah.

[00:39:58] Sam Rhee: And. . And that's where it took me a while to figure that out too. Yeah. It's like, okay, if I do all this soft tissue work, if I do all of this, I can keep working out the way I really wanna work out. Mm-hmm. and maybe that's not

[00:40:10] David Syvertsen: really the case sometimes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Do you have one standout case study without naming a name? Mm-hmm. . Cause I know you guys can get trouble for that. . Just like. Maybe two stories of, wow, like this really changed someone's life. Like last week we talked about someone being taken off anxiety medication from just from doing CrossFit.

Like that was one of the coolest things. Like the weight loss stories are cool. Someone qualifying for something is cool, but like I really, that's like probably one of my favorite stories is having someone taking off anxiety medication because of CrossFit. Do you have a case study story that really is like, Wow, acupuncture changes person's.

[00:40:45] Marissa Liza: Yeah, I have actually two, the one which actually not a CrossFitter, it was a young woman that came to see me and she really wanted to have a family and she really wanted to have a baby. And she were trying and trying and trying and, you know, she also had these like timelines in her head and it was like, I wanna be pregnant by, I'm 28 in the summer.

So then this would happen and this would happen. But she also had gone through this really stressful time in her. And her body had was just depleted. And I was saying before you can even think about having another child or having a child, you need to get yourself better. Right? So acupuncture was really good at sort of just.

Building her, her body back up, getting her energy levels back up, getting her sort of out of that like adrenal fatigue state of, you know, exhaustion. Yep. And getting her hormones regulated. She didn't really wanna go the IVF route and do that stuff. Okay. And she was literally almost at that point. But I knew I could just like feel it cuz I had been working with her for so long that Okay.

I was like, just, just give me like a couple more months. Like, if you keep working with me, we'll get you there. Yeah. And sure enough she got pregnant. Wow. And that was, That was really awesome. That's really cool. That was really cool. Yeah, that was a good case

[00:41:57] Sam Rhee: that I can see that in my mind. Exactly. I worked in IVF rotation when I was in med school, and every patient was like that, desperate to have a child.

So anxious. Timelines, schedules, have to do this, have to do that, and. I know so many people have anecdotal stories of going through IVF and doing all this stuff and then just kind of giving up. Yes. And then getting pregnant. Pregnant, because a lot of it was achieving that mind state and you know, instead of having to go through three years of stress, IVF failures to get to that point, whatever can help you achieve it faster.

Yeah,

[00:42:38] Marissa Liza: it works. Yes, it does. It really does. It's naturally saying, Okay, we're gonna help, you know, prep your body. And even now, like, you know, sometimes people come in like after they've had their first child and they're like, Why am I not get pregnant? Why am I not getting pregnant right away? I was like, Do you realize that you, you worked, you were pregnant.

You gave birth and now eight months later, you want your body to do it again. Yeah. Like you gotta, we gotta give ourselves a little time to

[00:43:03] David Syvertsen: recover. Mm-hmm. , it's like one of the first things you said is like, you just give yourself some grace on that, you know? Mm-hmm. , like it's one of the first things you said in this podcast.

Yeah.

[00:43:09] Marissa Liza: And then the second one was actually it's not. Such, again, I guess it's great, but it was somebody that just had chronic, chronic back pain. Mm-hmm. , nobody could really figure out what was going on, you know, did the MRIs, it was like herniations and this, and slipped disc and was thinking about surgery and I said, Give me three months.

And I just had a, and I normally don't say that, I never guarantee, but I was like, I know I can get you at least 70 to 80% better. I said, Just stop. You know, he was sitting certain ways at work, which was not helpful. That was really like a big thing that we worked on. Mm-hmm. and had him like set a timer on his phone, like, every 10 minutes you gotta get up cuz you're literally sitting for eight hours and not moving.

That's not helping. And it was, it was life changing because he just got back to the activities that he wanted to do. Mm-hmm. . More than anything. It's like, I always say like, you should wanna live your life feeling well and do the things that bring you happiness, whether it's pick up your grandchild or go play ball, whatever it is.

When you're don't have that, Yeah, that's, That's the

[00:44:06] David Syvertsen: ticket. Yeah. That's when it starts to spiral outta control. Sometimes, you know, you just no longer have that escape for you to. To really go and do what you wanna do. Yeah. You know, I

[00:44:13] Sam Rhee: really like that case because it, you had to be a holistic provider, so it wasn't like, Oh yeah, back pain.

Okay, I'm gonna come in, do the protocol for back pain. See you later. Like you actually delved into his life and tried to figure out like all the other things that were going on in order to set yourself. For success as a provider, because if all it is is just paying you money and then you sticking the needles in, a lot of times that's not gonna work.

Mm-hmm. , if you don't figure out what else is going on, what's going on, and that's what all providers have to do. Yes. They kind of have to be that holistic Yes.

[00:44:46] Marissa Liza: Person. Yes. Yes. And getting them to also, I think to like I, I mean, I like to actually admit that this is what they're doing and saying like, It's okay.

That. Not doing what you should be doing. You know what I mean? Like, maybe I am sitting for eight hours a day, but they don't wanna admit it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So getting to them, to that, to that place and

[00:45:04] David Syvertsen: being truly honest with you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They always say, Don't never lie to your doctor. Never lie to your lawyer.

and, And people profit coach. Yeah. And people do all three all the time. Oh,

[00:45:14] Sam Rhee: all the time. Yeah.

[00:45:16] Marissa Liza: I'm the worst patient, . That's why I like to be one.

[00:45:20] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Oh, do, do you? I mean, you can't practice acupuncture yourself. Right. That wouldn't really work.

[00:45:25] Marissa Liza: I do sometimes. Can you? Yeah, it's, it's really not the same though.

I mean, because part of the, part of the treatment is like that connection that laying down that zen. Yeah. Yeah. And it's sort of that like connection with the other person. But I mean, I definitely have like laid on my side and like, All right, I think I could just get to that point. And then sometimes, like the.

Like I'll release it. I'm like, Oh, , I do this to people.

[00:45:46] David Syvertsen: experience. Every time I work out, I do this. Every time I do one of the bison moss, I'm like, Man, I do this to people. ,

[00:45:52] Marissa Liza: I tell you to do that. And then I'm like, It hurts. And I'm like, You're fine, You're fine.

[00:45:56] David Syvertsen: The bison benchmark has thrusters to go to the competition.

[00:45:59] Sam Rhee: Oh my God, that's so bad. Why? Why?

[00:46:02] David Syvertsen: Why

[00:46:03] Marissa Liza: I was gonna send you like the gif today with the nail and the coffin. Like you were just like,

[00:46:07] David Syvertsen: Oh, you don't have to do, Here you go guys. Event four for your competition. This past Saturday is actually gonna take place at the gym . Where do you wanna take your business Future?

Good

[00:46:16] Marissa Liza: question. I thought about this. I really wanna just see, obviously more patience. Okay. But really I like to maintain that. Family feel. Mm-hmm. where it's, you know, everybody, you know, where it's not this sort of place of. just a number coming in the door that, you know, we've developed a relationship that I'm somebody that you trust that you can turn to.

And, you know, I think about bringing in different services and doing different things, and I struggle with that all the time. Like, Oh, if I could do this, then maybe I do this, this, and this. And like, but I do, I really want the stress of that and, but I just really wanna keep it. I see. Medicine be just becoming this, which is good in some ways.

You know, there was a lot of, there's a lot of providers in one office. It's sort of like one stop shopping. Mm-hmm. , which is great and that has its advantages as well. But I also like sort of that small feel where it's, you are really taken care of from the moment you come in and you have a good relationship.

Mm-hmm. so, I see. I would like to get out and do more, just more education on acupuncture. People just don't know enough about it. Yep. And if they know enough, then they can make an informed decision. Mm-hmm. , this is for me. Mm-hmm. , this is not for me. Right. You know, where it's not this sort of like ethereal, like ooh, voodoo type stuff.

Yep. They know about it, They know it can help them, and then they can make an informed decision. Okay. So that's really, Yeah. Awesome.

[00:47:35] David Syvertsen: What I hope Now do you have, just in like, in closing, do you have any other things that you just wanted to make sure you got out there? Whether it's about, you know, the, the way you approach treatment, acupuncture in general, any things that you could tie together with CrossFit and acupuncture.

[00:47:51] Marissa Liza: Yeah, I think just the most important thing, and you guys always talk about this too, is really, you know, advocating for yourself and taking control of your health. And acupuncture is just another step and one thing that will help you just feel better and something that you can do to give back to your body.

You know that, that's really, it. Just, it's, it's a wonderful medicine. It works, it's helpful. There is no negative side effects to acupuncture. So even if you come in and maybe you don't get the results that you wanted, There's nothing bad with it. It's, it's only positive. Right? Right. So maybe you feel a little bit more relaxed in your day.

It didn't help you as much as you wanted, but you just feel better right about it. Right. And more so to just, you know, we've sort of made, like I touched on before, we make excuses for our health and we think that, you know, we shouldn't feel good or this is not what it should be like. And not so much with CrossFitters because we really are into health and fitness and we, we wanna feel good.

And yeah, it's important, but also just to remember to. Give back to your body. Mm-hmm. , you know, just really rest is so, so important. Right. I know you guys talk about this all the time. Yep. But

[00:48:58] David Syvertsen: you know, you can, People need, the, people need the concert reminder.

[00:49:00] Marissa Liza: Trust me. You know, you can do all the acupuncture, you can do all the pt, you can do all this stretching.

But if you really just. Don't give your body that reset, that chance to rest. Mm-hmm.

[00:49:10] David Syvertsen: and anything. It's what they call you burn the candle from both ends. Yeah. At some point something's gonna happen. Yeah. And I

[00:49:14] Marissa Liza: just, I said that to Sam, you know, like I wanted to, even to that competition tomorrow, like I wanted yesterday, I wanted to like go in and be like, Oh, and I'm like, My body had one gear.

Yeah. It was one gear. And you know why? Cause it was like I was working hard for three weeks. Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't gonna happen. Right. You know, So, you know, understand that we, we do a lot and the rest is so, so important. Yep.

[00:49:35] David Syvertsen: Completely agree. Sam, any closing thoughts?

[00:49:37] Sam Rhee: No, I'm just really glad that we have a provider who does CrossFit because understanding CrossFit, that's, It's really unusual, you know?

You know what it's like when people don't know what CrossFit's about? Yeah. And then you treat them like, or they treat you. It's like, that's why Hartman's great. Marty's great. Get it. Understand. And so same thing, if you have an acupuncturist that understands CrossFit, understands you as a CrossFit athlete.

Right. All the, because they do it. Right.

[00:50:01] David Syvertsen: All the differences. Yeah. It's like this hurts on thrusters, but not on wall balls. You know, you tell that to like some Dr. Schmo that doesn't know what CrossFit is, they're gonna look at you like you have three heads on and me's like, Yeah, what's your Fran Tie ,

[00:50:14] Marissa Liza: You know, I

[00:50:15] David Syvertsen: like so and so.

You should put that on your intake form, Fran. Time .

[00:50:19] Marissa Liza: Like when I'm, when people come in and they're like telling me certain things, they're like, Oh, this, this, Like, I literally am like, I'm thinking like, you know, medical brain and then I'm like, Okay, squatting this, like that. Like you just, you get like a, you know, feel for this.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's. It certainly helps all, you know, to

[00:50:35] David Syvertsen: understand. So, All right, well hey, this was great Marissa. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. I think a lot of people are gonna get a lot out of that and it's not fun. Yeah. Herd Fit podcast, Cross It Bites. And Daves and Sam Rhee, we all fully endorse Marissa.

So if acupuncture something you do want, try we definitely, definitely want to promote Marissa and just give it a shot with her. Where can we find you? Just website, Instagram, or Oh, thanks. Or your address.

[00:51:00] Marissa Liza: Yeah. First of all, thanks for having me. Yeah. Love this place. Love you guys. My pleasure. Our pleasure.

Awesome. So it is Marissa, Lisa All Points Acupuncture and Wellness Center, and my Instagram is at All points. Acu, A L L P O I N T S A C U, and the office is in Rochelle Park, New Jersey. Right by the part State Plaza. Yeah. Right by the Gardenside Plaza.

[00:51:20] David Syvertsen: Super close. Yeah. Very easy to get to.

Trust me. Very easy. All right, thank you guys. We'll see you.