S03E126 - 2024 CrossFit Masters Games Boss and Co-Founder of the Legends Championship, Joe Linton

In an exclusive interview with Joe Linton @_joe_linton, newly minted CF Masters Games co-director and co-founder of the Legends Championship @thelegendschampionship, coaches David Syvertsen @davesy85 and Sam Rhee @bergencosmetic explore the exciting changes that are coming for Masters athletes in the 2024 CrossFit Games season.

After discussing the upcoming 2023 1st Phorm Legends Championship, to be held December 7-10. Tempe, Arizona at Arizona State University, as well as a history of the Legends Championiship, we tackle the 2024 CrossFit Games Masters Legends (or whatever name they end up deciding) in detail, how Joe and Bob Jennings @thebobjennings became involved with CF HQ and the Masters Games, and all the sticky details, including season structure, potential Masters Games location, programming, and broadcast considerations.

For anyone interested in athleticism at any age and the future of CrossFit, there is plenty to take away from this wide-ranging episode!

@crossfitbison @crossfittraining @crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate #personalizedfitness

0:00 Programming for CrossFit Masters With Joe Linton

10:54 Legends Games

17:43 CrossFit Legends Competition Planning and Programming

27:40 Masters Games Programming and Team Division

38:15 2024 Games Planning and Responsibilities

46:47 CrossFit Partnership and Video Review Support

52:49 CrossFit Games Process and Schedule

59:43 Plan Masters Games and Broadcast Finance

1:08:15 Supporting Masters Games and Expanding Opportunities

1:19:15 Affiliates and Open Supporting CrossFit Masters

1:28:45 Legends Programming and Athlete Experience

S03E126 - 2024 CrossFit Masters Games Boss and Co-Founder of the Legends Championship, Joe Linton

[00:00:00] David Syvertsen: All right. Welcome back to the HerdFit Podcast. I am coach David Syvertsen. I'm here with my co host, doctor and coach Sam Rhee. And in between us, we have probably one of the most special guests we've ever had. No offense to anyone that's ever been on as a guest of the HerdFit Podcast. We are joined by Joe Linton, the director of the Legends Masters Championship.

Still trying to figure out what the game season will be calling the Masters Games, but we're going to say he's now in charge. Of the CrossFit Games for the Masters community starting next year. Joe, thanks so much for joining us today. He flew across the country just to meet with us. So, really, really humbled by that and glad that you took the time out of your week to come join us.

How you doing, man? Doing

[00:00:38] Joe Linton: great, doing great. A little tired. What time did you get in? To the hotel? Midnight? Um, but, I'm used to this. I can operate like this for a couple days and, uh, once I get home I'll, you know, take some good naps and get caught back up and everything. But, uh, thanks for having us out.

You know, we wanted to, we talked about this, Bob and I, before of kind of coming out and showing the, you know, showing the love back to you guys because I think it's what, three years in a row for Legends that you guys have had the most signups, uh, in our online qualifier which, um, that level of support.

Uh, it needs to be, you know, congratulated or awarded or a thank you rather than just, you know, a text or an email. So thank you guys for all your support of Legends because it's communities like yourselves that has gotten us to where we are today, but with the opportunity of what we're going to have next year.

Yeah.

[00:01:29] David Syvertsen: Um, also just a really great character move by YouTube is by no means to be expected. We've always wanted to have Joe and or Bob on the podcast and it was always going to be via Zoom. We're going to put you on a TV screen and talk to you, which is always, those are always tough. We've actually never done it.

Um, but my co owner last night, Chris Tafaro, um, who you'll meet tonight, he texted me last night. He goes like. There's got to be another reason why he's coming out here, like, why would he be coming out here just for us? I'm like, dude, this is a high character move that we have a new leader in the CrossFit Masters space and I think one of your roles, responsibilities that you're gonna have is really trying to get involved in and intertwine the Masters competing with the Masters community as an affiliate perspective and That's that's a huge part of what you're actually doing right now.

And I really do appreciate

[00:02:13] Joe Linton: that Yeah, of course. Um, it's something that I'm not used to obviously, but uh It's something that's needed. And, uh, it's, it was, it spawned from the podcast you guys did when you're talking about the masters changes and community and all that. And just your, uh, perspectives, your thought process on it.

I was like, this makes sense. And I think that this would be a very valuable. Podcasts for everyone to watch and see and, you know, spark more conversations from it. So, um, this is by all means fun for me as well. Awesome, man. So it wasn't an, it was an easy decision to come out here.

[00:02:45] David Syvertsen: So in true CrossFit form, CrossFit Bison today is doing a workout programmed by this guy.

You know, so this workout that everyone's doing this morning, let's just break the ice by talking. I want you to, Joe, Sam, you can agree with this, right? Validate this statement. I, I'm very picky with programming, right? I have a very high standard for people that program workouts. I don't think it's hard to program a good workout, but I think it's really hard to program a great workout and it's even harder.

To program a series of workouts, whether it's in a test fashion like the legends or just on a week to week basis for a gym. And Joe sent me a workout he programmed for today's Bison WOD, um, which I had no hesitation in saying once he, that, you know, I really do trust that he could put together a good workout.

Joe, I'm going to give the workout and I want you to just give your feedback slash reasoning behind the workout. I'll explain it first and then just to get the people on this same wavelength as you in terms of. What you put into programming, your why, and why this is actually a good reason why I do think you should be in charge.

And this could be a games workout next year. You never know. You never

[00:03:49] Joe Linton: know. This could be a game. You know, maybe even the pros do it. I don't know. Let's go.

[00:03:53] David Syvertsen: So here's the workout. It's an alternating EMOM for 20 minutes. All right. There's four stations. So you're going to run through this five times.

Station one, 20 chest to bar pull ups. Station two, 15 deadlifts, 155 for the guys, 105 for the ladies. Station three, machine of choice cows. We have most of our gym doing row cows. Let's say, let's just call it row for today. Minute number four, you get to rest. Your score is how many cows you get over the course of the entire workout.

However, if you do not beat your previous set of cows, You are next time on that rower, you have to take a 15 second penalty. Joe, that's the workout. Give me your why behind it.

[00:04:36] Joe Linton: So, well, why it opens up with chest to bar. Um, this is kind of a training workout as well, right? It's a chest to bar at that level, high end gymnastics.

You want to go on broken for all 20. So you need to be efficient. Round one, you know, uh, even if you can do butterfly or kipping. You can kind of muscle through it, but round three, four and five are going to get difficult if you're not an efficient, uh, gymnast on the pull up bar. So paying attention to your movement and kind of showing yourself what you can or can't do is great for training and getting better in CrossFit.

Uh, the deadlifts. At 155, 105, easily unbroken for most people, but that's what I want to go for. Like I want to, you know, tax the grip and I want it to kind of, you know, blow up the legs a little bit rather than, um, it's kind of a bait move. It's a weight and a rep scheme that everyone's going to look at and be like, I'm going unbroken.

So it gives you what, you know, 30 seconds ish before that max car row. That also gives you a little time to kind of get amped up and go off game plan. I think, you know, it's kind of enough time to think, actually, I feel pretty good. I think I got this. And so the row, the max car row, um, we've done this workout in multiple different versions at my gym when I owned an affiliate.

Uh, but I never had a penalty, but. And trying to explain as a coach on, you know, about pacing and about getting faster or negative splits, uh, it would never happen. It would rarely happen. Yeah. They would just go for it. Just go ham. Cross. Yeah. You know, so I'm like, well, what if we penalized you a little bit, you know?

And so. Uh, 15 second penalty because if you don't increase then you get, you get less time to get those scores. And, um, like I was telling you, you know, before this, I would always try to get in like, you know, those younger athletes heads, especially the, you know, the younger male and try to like get them off guard and, um, challenge them to just go for it and, you know, see if you can beat me.

in 45 seconds when I'm trying to be smart. So they would always get like 25 cows the first minute. Yeah. Something insane. But then they only had 25 seconds and I'd get like 18, 16. And then by round five, they're toast. And so it was kind of like something to help teach, uh, teach athletes that, you know, you can be smart, you can get.

16, 17, 18, and you can get faster and better, but then if you look at it as a whole workout, but your chest to bar is like staying the same, you know, as you get more tired, you're not, you didn't use up, uh, you're being efficient. So you're getting better and which is also safer, right? You know, cleaner, cleaner, more controlled movements going to be a lower that risk of injury.

So the workout. Mainly is to show people how to pace, but also to kind of expose weaknesses and efficiency on gymnastics movement. So much

[00:07:26] Sam Rhee: pulling. Why, why so much interference? Just three pull moves like that.

[00:07:30] Joe Linton: Uh, I like that because again, it goes back to how efficient you can be on the pull up bar when you're.

You know, pull, pull, pull. Yeah, that,

[00:07:38] David Syvertsen: that it's a great test. We're actually, all three of us are going to be doing that workout in a couple hours from now. So, you know, Joe will be eating what he's cooking and, uh, we'll be, we'll be sure to report his score. Nice, easy round

[00:07:49] Joe Linton: one.

[00:07:51] David Syvertsen: Start slower and faster guys.

We say it here all the time, but now you have the director of the master sport now saying it as well. So maybe some of us will listen. Hey, let's, um, I know a lot of people that are tuning in right now. They really want to hear about this process with the 2024 games and what, what it's going to be like, but I'll, I'll, I'm going to make them wait.

I want to talk about 2023 Legends, and maybe even some of, because again, I know you're a multitasker, you wouldn't be good at what you do if you were not a multitasker, and you've proven the ability to do it, and I do think it's a tremendous skill, that someone, and you're in Bob's shoes Need to really have and be able to put into motion at all times You guys are obviously on coming out here talking about the 2024 game season.

We're seven weeks away Mm hmm from Legends 2023 Legends Championship. You have how many athletes competing?

[00:08:42] Joe Linton: 570. Holy

[00:08:44] David Syvertsen: cow. Do you have a 70? Do you have a number of volunteers off the top of your head? I know it's probably gonna change between now and then but an approximate number of what you expect

[00:08:53] Joe Linton: Well, we're gonna 120 now 130 to 150

[00:08:56] David Syvertsen: So you're probably looking at 650 to 700 people going to Tempe, Arizona in seven weeks, which you are in charge of.

Yep. And you are going to put on another tremendous show, another four day competition. Wow. With... Over a dozen divisions. You have RX, you have Scaled, you have Teams. And that, that deserves a lot of attention. You guys have been putting a lot into this. You were texting me last winter about this championship, just trying to get some feedback from a competitor perspective, a gym owner perspective.

So you guys, this is a full year operation to plan for this upcoming event. So I really do think 2023 Legends needs to be discussed. You guys picked Tempe, Arizona. Arizona State University campus. Why there, and what were a couple of the other locations that you guys

[00:09:46] Joe Linton: considered? So why, you know, Tempe or Phoenix area, really?

Um, it's kind of funny. Directly due to equipment sponsor. Oh, okay. So, if you think about, um, kind of what we've done in the past, and, no, Giant Lifting. Oh, Giant Lifting. Um, What we've done in the past is, uh, we've had Rogue involved, um, but there's costs associated with that and shipping and, um, kind of the further away you get away from Ohio, the more expensive it's going to be.

Um, in 2021, we had True Grit, local company, and the amount, how much they came out and supported us, just with everything we needed because we were in their. Uh, base location, San Diego, you know, their home city. Yeah. And I was like, well, what if I can do that again? So I believe it was Jason Ansley of the Monster Games hooked me up with the guys from Giant Lifting and I told him, I was like, look, this is my competition size.

Here are, uh, here's some media and here's some, some photos and what we've done in the past. Um, check out our Instagram, we've got a big following, uh. You know, they were just trying, they just moved into the Phoenix area, I want to say, less than two years ago. They're based out of Seattle, so they're trying to branch out.

I was like, look, we'll make you the equipment sponsor of this competition and do anything that you need if you can provide the equipment and you know, set up, break down, all that stuff. And they were like, done. So for me, on a logistical standpoint, I got my equipment. They got great stuff. I checked it out.

They're gonna be there to set up, break down, Full support, full booth, and... That means that it saves a lot of cost on the competition side, right? So, and to have that support too, because to find the volunteers and the manpower to unbox everything, do X, Y, and Z, um, it's a lot. And so this, this was a big stress off the plate.

This is a big bucket that we, you know, checked off right away.

[00:11:47] David Syvertsen: The first time I met Joe and Bob was at the 2020, uh, Legend Championship in Goodyear, Arizona. And I just wanted to go introduce myself. I actually knew someone that went to college with Bob and someone like, uh, Deborah Work. I knew Bob, so I was like, oh, go introduce, mention my name, right?

Um, and then through a couple different conversations, like, oh, we know some of the same people via Villanova. And the first time I met them, they both had, like, box cutters in their hand and they're... Undoing the packaging for the competition that was in a parking lot. They were like bolting the rig together.

Bob was driving a forklift bringing sandbags back and forth and air runners. These guys remind me so much of an affiliate owner. That when you start off you have to do everything and at some point as you get bigger you get smarter You have a little bit more resources You need to start distributing district start giving out some of the jobs and roles to take some off your plate But also to make the process more efficient and the product better and that's exactly what these guys are You guys started this competition.

I don't want to go too far back, but in a local gym at some point, right?

[00:12:54] Joe Linton: yeah, and my affiliate in Carlsbad, so 17 2017. Okay. It used to be in the summer. Okay It was in the summer, um... I want to say it was like September or maybe a little bit before that. Uh, 17, 36 people. Uh, Bob basically begged 36 masters to come out.

I mean, I think the furthest that someone came out was LA, you know? And, uh, Val Volbrell came out, I think. Okay, cool. So that was pretty cool. That was really cool. Um, so year two was 54 people, but we had, we had scaled. So I don't think we got that many more RX athletes, but we, um, had 54. Then year three. I don't know whose idea it was, but we, we said that let's do an online qualifier.

Let's make it serious. And let's make this a three day comp. So we went from one day comp, one day comp, seemingly unsuccessful. And it's kind of crazy thinking about it now that I say, or saying it out loud. And then we're like, all right, three day comp and an online qualifier. But then it made it serious because almost 400 people worldwide signed up.

I think there's eight countries. And 120 people came out to, uh, my gym. Wow, that's awesome. 140. You know, uh, was our max, but then, uh, 120 showed up, 126, but, uh, three day comp. And even then we were, you know, first in last out. We slept at the gym both nights. Uh, we were sorting gear up until like, you know, 3 AM.

Wow. Uh, I think Born Primitive was our gear sponsor that year. And that was a big deal for us too, because we're like, we need to provide an experience that, uh, that the games does for the younger athletes. So that's why we have 40. And like in the beginning, uh, in the lower age group. So, uh, then going into 2020, we actually had the Del Mar fairgrounds booked.

I remember that. That was, we were so pumped for

[00:14:41] David Syvertsen: that. That's one of the most famous West Coast, um, venues, by the way, that's where the California regionals were. Like if you look at something like the Josh Bridges regionals videos, it's at that facility. It's like a really cool place. I remember watching those

[00:14:52] Joe Linton: videos.

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful venue. Um, I, I heard a rumor that it was the only. Profitable regional. Okay. Was Del Mar. That makes sense. I mean day one There was like some stat out that day one it sold more tickets than all combined days at like the Salt Lake regional It's a very popular. It feels like a little mini games.

Okay, it truly does. It feels like a mini games. It's pack stands The vendor villages pop and you know, everyone's spending money having fun. It's sunny, you know, it's California So in the summer, which is nice Have you

[00:15:26] Sam Rhee: ever made money on the Legends games? No. No.

[00:15:30] Joe Linton: Never? No.

[00:15:31] Sam Rhee: Have you taken a big bath

[00:15:32] Joe Linton: every year?

You know, we, uh, you know, it's, we know that there's something there. And finally, you know, it's like, you know, we're starting to see, like, alright, it's working. But, um, no. Uh, you know, for, we've both been, uh, you know, investing. You know? Investing a lot of, a lot of personal money. Um, Bob, obviously more so, but I think maybe percentage wise, like how much money he makes.

I'm not a numbers guy. He's proportionally giving what you can. Yeah. I don't know what it is, man. It was something that we know that I'm not a lot, like you said, an affiliate owner. And like, I feel like not a lot of people can do what. We do. You're right. Absolutely right. Or want to do it. That's true. So, you know, so it's like, it's almost, I don't know, when I was reading some book, I don't know why I'm stealing this from something, but it's more than passion.

It's a purpose. Okay. You know, so if we can do it, you know, then we need to do it. Otherwise, uh, you know, it won't get done. I mean, I'll get done the way we want

[00:16:32] David Syvertsen: it to. I'll say this from a masters athlete and I'll say this as from a person that coaches masters. We need you guys. I genuinely do feel that.

When you say that, you are, it's your purpose. Um, without you guys, I don't know where the sport would be. And you guys are now, I don't think it's a coincidence, but the timing of this... really goes well because like CrossFit really started to boom 14 as the game started getting broadcast on ESPN. I'm talking about CrossFit in general, but also the sport.

What's the deal? That's 10 years ago. If your average athlete is 25, 26, 27 years old back then, what are they now? 35, 36, 37. Coming from an athlete that I Will readily admit I can't hang with guys that are 20 through 25 anymore on on every level But I still have that competitive fix And I know there's a lot of people like me that guys and girls people older than me I even have athletes in this gym right now that are 33 that can't wait till they turn 35 for this reason alone Yeah, so I think there's more people out there than you might even realize and that truly need you guys, you and Bob and your staff.

'cause there's a lot of you guys that, that put a lot of work into this. Yeah. And we're thankful for that, that you guys really do view this as a purpose. Most people would've thrown in the towel already, whether it's finances, stress, the combination of the two time. And I'm really glad that you guys stuck it out.

And that's why like I sent you the text after I heard you guys had the games. Saying that you guys truly deserve it, you know, it's not just because you're in the right place, right time, like you put in the time and you still are putting in the time. Um, I assume you think

[00:18:09] Sam Rhee: you can make money someday

[00:18:10] David Syvertsen: on this.

[00:18:11] Joe Linton: Yeah. Okay. I hope so, otherwise the wife's gonna step in. Yeah. Even though, but she's, she's a huge supporter. My wife, Sarah, she even says like, you know, this is what you were supposed to do. And I'm like, okay, cool. Cool. Sounds good. So I can keep doing it. She's like, yes. Thank you.

[00:18:29] David Syvertsen: So we did a parking lot in 2020.

We did San Diego in 21. We did Nashville at CrossFit Mayhem in 2022. That was awesome. That was awesome. Can you give just like a really short, Hey, comparison of, Hey, your bias towards West coast, which, you know, we always kind of, as East coasters over here, we always kind of get bitter about that, but that is really where CrossFit started.

And it does seem to be where a big competition does make money. And you know, that, that, um, location out in California was the only regional that was making money or, you know, the most money out of all the regional out there. Um, Why go back out west? What were some of the logistical Advantages and disadvantages to be in Nashville in a gym and now going out to Tempe?

I know the equipment sponsor is part of it But are there any other reasons why you kind of want to stay on the west coast?

[00:19:19] Joe Linton: Oh a big reason is like, uh, Honestly travel for us. I have two young kids six and four so getting out to Nashville It would take a day and a half minimum. And that would just to, to meet for the day, you know, just cause the travel time.

When I did my site visit at ASU, I took off at 830 and I was landing at three. Nice. You know, so it's like, it's an easy thing for me. And so. To kind of, you know, figure out how to refine this competition into being, you know, profitable so that we can keep doing this, um, it's kind of have to be, you know, I guess, you know, on our schedules or close to us so that we can easily control everything without, um, having to spend more money on travel, you know, to get out and back was only like 180 bucks for me.

So it's like fast. It's easy. Um, It is, uh, it's a nice place to be in December. It's nice and warm. Um, it's an international airport. Uh, the venue is only a 10 minute 19 Uber ride away from the airport. So, you know, mayhem was amazing, but Cookville being a significant distance away from a national international airport was, uh, Uh, a lot of different options on hotels, Airbnbs, uh, and you can have an easy one hour flight to San Diego or LA or the West Coast.

It's kind of a spot that you can, uh, go have a little vacation afterwards somewhere. So there's, it's more than just the equipment sponsor. Um, first one was our title sponsor, but we can kind of, we can get gear shipped anywhere for the same price. But when you're shipping big, heavy stuff, it, it becomes something you need to take into account.

How big was the

[00:20:57] Sam Rhee: push that Mayhem gave you guys, it really seemed to be another step up every year and that was a huge step because you had Rich Froning behind you guys, you had Mayhem, you had all of the broadcast which was so amazing last year. I remember when Dave competed In Arizona, we just waited every day to hear like, Oh, how'd you do?

We couldn't, we couldn't see or watch anything. Um, and then, you know, given the masters broadcast this past year at the games, watching what you guys did last year at mayhem, I was like, you guys have a lot of experience working the professional side of things now with different locations, different sponsors, different athletes, um, different media sort of push.

So. What was the biggest takeaway that you got from Mayhem last year that you're taking in this year in terms of your location, your sponsor, your broadcasting, your, all of the logistics type

[00:21:58] Joe Linton: stuff? Yeah. Mayhem was, well, every year it's all about athlete experience and, uh, making sure that we provide something new every year is important, even though if it's at the same location, which it hasn't been since the gym days, but it's making sure that.

Every single year you want David and, you know, people like him to come back, you know, if it's the same thing every year, it kind of gets boring, but you know, we need to mix it up. We need to learn how to work with other organizations like Mayhem. Um, you know, that wasn't easy. You know, normally it's just Bob and I share a text and a decision's made.

So in learning with working with other organizations is an important thing because, uh, Otherwise, you're just going to be by yourself the whole time. You guys even

[00:22:42] Sam Rhee: had to do some programming, I don't want to say compromises, but uh, sort of interactions with Mayhem, with Rich Froning.

[00:22:50] Joe Linton: Which was great, by the way, um, Bob and I did First Crack.

So we did uh, what, at least five revisions back and forth. Then we sent it to Mayhem, which was exciting because then they sent back feedback on top of that. So after Bob and I already did five revisions, they sent back one, we sent back another, I think total was 12. Um, last year, like 12 revisions. And then we finalized it two weeks before on like our last site visit.

Um, Jake, Bob and I, and my buddy Mark, who did the lighting, he does the balloon lighting. Um, we put everything on the whiteboard and just start, and then even start moving, made some big changes. Oh, wow. And like, just the thought process, yeah. Wow. And a couple big changes that, um, made the workouts even, even way better.

And it takes time just to kind of get to that point. That's why, um, that's why we love the programming side so much, just because it's so fun. Um, it's so fun to see. How can we push people? How can we trick people? How can we, you know, make something... So simple, but yet so difficult, um, in a workout. So having those guys expertise in programming as well, we learned a lot.

It's

[00:24:01] Sam Rhee: gonna be interesting next year when your partners in programming are gonna

[00:24:04] David Syvertsen: be Bosman and Castro. But you've

[00:24:07] Sam Rhee: had, but that's great that you've had experience working with people on programming.

[00:24:10] Joe Linton: That's very cool. And we're not, again, like we never say like, oh, we have to do the programming. We just like to share how much we love it and hopefully, you know, and everyone's, you know, let us, uh, Let us participate heavily.

Um, and it's looking like, you know, hopefully that's how it is next year as well because, uh, that's going to be a lot of fun.

[00:24:30] David Syvertsen: 2023 Legends. Mm hmm. Fully programmed yet? No.

[00:24:35] Joe Linton: Oh, really? No. Seven weeks? No, there's a couple. It's close. It's close. The teams, well, what's really cool, um, And the swim workout is not programmed yet.

So

[00:24:47] David Syvertsen: there's a swim. There's

[00:24:47] Joe Linton: definitely going to be a swim. Yeah. You guys are swimming. Okay. Day one. That's cool. Okay. And I'm working with, uh, the swim coach. Oh, wow. Who, uh, obviously knows a lot more about that than me or Bob put together. All

[00:25:00] David Syvertsen: right, everyone, let's find this guy's email. Yeah.

[00:25:04] Joe Linton: And, uh, He also runs like the, uh, yeah, master swim or whatever swimming group is at the, at that complex.

And so he knows about capacity of age groups of, you know, beginner to excellent swimmers. So when I was doing my site visit, we had a question about the pool and I go, let's go talk to this guy. And I thought he like ran the grounds. He was the, he's like, Oh, I'm the swim coach. I'm like, Oh, I need to talk to you because I've never programmed a swim workout for a competition.

And so can I get your feedback and this and that? And he's like, absolutely. So, um, that's awesome. Yeah. That's a, that's a conversation we're going to have next week. What is your philosophy?

[00:25:44] Sam Rhee: Why include swim?

[00:25:47] Joe Linton: We've wanted to for a long time. It's something that people are been asking for. It's something that, uh, you know, is an experience we haven't done at legends.

So. It's an easy, easy thing to go to. It's right there. You know, we don't have to travel anywhere. It's literally part of the, part of the complex. I've had athletes

[00:26:07] David Syvertsen: send me the Google overhead shot to let us know that we're swimming in the pool.

[00:26:10] Joe Linton: It's right there. I mean, it's super close. Is it outdoor, the pool itself?

Yeah. Okay. It's heated.

[00:26:16] Sam Rhee: Now, do you think that without a swim test, you can't figure out who the best athlete is? Yes. I don't think you need a swim test. Okay. But you think that a swim test makes it more complete in some way?

[00:26:27] Joe Linton: I think it makes it different. I think it makes a difference. I think that if you program a swim work properly, which a swim workout properly, then it doesn't have to be about the swim.

You know, it doesn't have to be about, um, if you're a good swimmer or not. I think if you do it properly that, uh, you can, uh, you can get some people that maybe does work harder and they can still be moderately competitive.

[00:26:51] Sam Rhee: What about the safety issues associated with swim with like a 55 year old dude who

[00:26:55] David Syvertsen: doesn't know how to swim, like

[00:26:57] Joe Linton: die in the pool or something?

Yeah, I mean, we're going to have plenty of staff, professional staff, you know, lifeguards. Um, and again, I think it goes down, it goes down into the programming, how it's set up.

[00:27:10] David Syvertsen: Interesting. Have you ever been close to programming a swim at

[00:27:12] Joe Linton: previous championships? No, it was never an option because, uh, logistic.

Logistics, uh, cost to, we, we, we would say like we would bus everyone or we would make it as easy as possible. Right. Um, it was just never an option.

[00:27:27] David Syvertsen: You trolled us a couple of years ago in San Diego. I used to take pictures of the, of the open water swim and Kathleen Stanton, who's going to be competing this year.

She was with me out there and she, we were both freaking out on the way out there that we're going to be kayaking and swimming.

[00:27:40] Joe Linton: Yeah, we sent, we sent a paddleboard, like we made an Instagram post and we started getting all these messages and people telling us how they're getting lessons and we were just joking and we just, you know, it was just Bob and I having fun and we're like, dude, we need to tell them they're not paddleboarding right now because they're spending money and time on this.

He's like, what? I'm like, look at this. He's like, okay, yeah, we got to tell them. And so, uh, That's when we stopped doing stuff like that. So, uh, we do like the, uh, you know, the Castro esque photos and, you know, that's always fun. That's actually Bob. He, he loves that stuff. He just sits there and laughs all day.

[00:28:22] David Syvertsen: Um, can you tell us how many tests there are going to be? How many events, workouts

[00:28:27] Joe Linton: there will be? Yeah, it's going to be similar to previous years. So we'll have at least eight. Uh, it's asked probably 10 scores, um, yeah, minimum right there.

[00:28:36] David Syvertsen: When you guys are programming this, do you reverse engineer this?

I've heard Castro talk about this, where you have a general idea, maybe specific in some cases that you want to test this at the championship. So because of that, you are going to make this show up in the qualifiers in the summer.

[00:28:54] Joe Linton: Yes. Okay. Yes, that is, that

[00:28:57] David Syvertsen: is accurate. And you have a couple of athletes that have qualified via.

Um, a live competition, the monster games in Missouri. And was there another one?

[00:29:06] Joe Linton: There was one in Mexico. Yeah, that one. Um, yeah, one in Mexico. Okay.

[00:29:10] David Syvertsen: Do you have say in those programming and the workouts or do you trust

[00:29:14] Joe Linton: those guys? They always send it to me and I'll give feedback, but. Most times I give very minimal feedback because you know the Masters Mexico They're seven years in Jason Ansley and the monster games seven years in and he's a competitor as well.

He um, he's competed with legends Yeah, I've seen them before twice now So I enjoy just reading their programming and then seeing how it shakes out. Okay, you know, I rarely send back more than maybe a couple suggestions and Typically there, you know, it ends up being something really cool because it's some twist that we put on another workout a couple years prior.

So, uh, you know, cause you can like take a certain twist, like even the workout in class today, right? You can take a certain twist and put it into multiple different workouts and it, um, it changes it completely. So. You

[00:30:03] David Syvertsen: have as much as 40 athletes in a single division. That is up, I believe, from last year, correct?

[00:30:11] Joe Linton: No, same. Oh no, sorry. Last year at Mayhem. Yes. Okay. 32. Okay.

[00:30:16] David Syvertsen: And San Diego, we did, did we have up to around there? Okay. Why so many? Or is it that the games? Was not doing enough. You know, when I first started following masters competing, I want to say there was 30 or 20 athletes, then they bumped it down to 10 by the end of the weekend.

There's two or three injuries. It's just kind of like a bad look. You have seven people competing on the floor by the end in some of these divisions, why do you feel that number is really important? 30, 40 athletes

[00:30:41] Joe Linton: per division. It's it was directly because we want to provide the same games experience that the younger athletes were getting so that would be 40 And so that's why we started with 40 and it tapers down just based off of overall overall participation But it was that it was exactly that of providing an experience of we were trying to create a little mini games for each age group So that's why we have 420 athletes.

Yeah, um, that was the direct reason

[00:31:09] David Syvertsen: And this year, for the first time, you're doing teams. Yes. And I don't want to say the first time you're doing scaled, because you said you did do a scaled division when it was inside of a gym. But in terms of these big locations, big operations, this is the first time you're doing scaled.

Can you give just some reasoning behind that? Could you give any information to people that are competing on teams and scaled? What should they expect? What should they not expect? Do you want to go down that

[00:31:30] Joe Linton: path? Oh, no, that's fine. Um, scaled should be expecting to be pushed. Um, like in our online qualifier, we made them do toes to bar, uh, we made them do handstand push ups, um.

Um, that isn't the exact scale that, uh, CrossFit or other competitions use, but it's, I think it's needed. You know, we are a competition. We are going to push you and to get better at any level. Um, so scale should be expecting to, you know, do similar movements that they did in the online qualifier. Um, and scale is a, scale is a tough one, by the way.

Um, it's because you have such a wide, it's a bigger net, right? Uh, the scaled community rather than, uh, like the Rx. The Rx, it's like, no, you're going to do this and it's expected to be really hard. Scaled's like, well, wow. Okay. And there's people that maybe should be Rx and there are people that definitely should be scaled.

And so it's kind of, the programming side was, I'm like, okay, this is actually a little more difficult right now than I thought it was going to be. And, um. And the teams, they should expect to be doing all the same movements as the Rx'd. Um, I do know that, you know, you're going to get a lot of people that maybe didn't qualify as an individual.

So it's kind of like you're programming for a certain, you know, you know, 60 to 80th maybe, or 50 to 70th person. In a big leaderboard. Yep. So, and it's also how you, how, what are the rules of the workout? What are the rules of the team? The team has to follow so that everyone can participate and still have fun.

Um, that was the biggest thing is a community thing. Scaled and team was like a community builder. Let's get more people involved. A lot of people are going to go anyway to watch their friends. So kind of give them two days to go work out. Um, and just try something new. You know, we're doing teams of four, which I don't know if I regret it yet, but It's I told Bob, it was like kind of one of those things where I overcomplicate stuff and I'm like, this is pretty cool, but this is pretty complicated.

So I'm like, maybe next year we do something different, but, um, uh, yeah, the team should be expecting to do all the same movements as RX, but you know, volume and load will be a different

[00:33:39] Sam Rhee: is your philosophy for teams that you want to test each athlete on the team to. Do everything reasonably well, or is it more like, if you have a, like, let's suppose you're a really good athlete, but you have a little bit of a deficiency one way or another, your team can help you

[00:33:57] David Syvertsen: sort of still

[00:33:58] Joe Linton: perform.

No, I can't say that your team won't be able to help you. Okay. So you've got to be able to do everything. It's kind of, you know, your team's going to be able to help you. Maybe you have a guy that is excellent at this and not so good at something else, but um, your team won't be able to help you. Okay. Yeah.

I think it makes it more fun. It's kind of a true team, right? It's like. You know, it's, it's kind of like other team sports, you know, just cause you know, one guy can't do something. Maybe the rest of the team can do it very well. So, but yeah, we'll

[00:34:23] David Syvertsen: see. Let's also be clear that just so that people know, they might not everyone know this.

The team is one male from 35 to 39, one male from 40 to 44. And then same thing with the females. And then there is an older division as well, right? 45 plus male, 50 plus male. 45 plus female. So you can't have two ringers from the stage A group, same gender, right? There was a couple people here that did start talking about, Hey, maybe if we don't qualify, or maybe I don't want to do individual, let's do team.

Um, Is there any kind of forecasting? I feel like you're always like a forward thinking guy, like you're focused on 2023, but there's still, because you're a multitasker and you're talented at it, you can think about 2024. Is there a possibility that just like the Open Division games, there are individuals and teams.

Could you ever see a situation where there's Masters individuals at the games, but also Master teams at the games? Is that part of the thought process here? Or no, that's just for the 2023 championship?

[00:35:25] Joe Linton: So we will be continuing our December championship. Yeah, we did announce that I think on last Tuesday.

Um, So with that we're gonna continue with teams at the games level. There's definitely I think it's a possibility Okay, it's hard to say that it's not especially since you know back in 2017 2018 everyone told Bob and I that we'll never be able to make a Masters competition big. So there's definitely a possibility of a Yeah, I think it can be done.

That's for sure. Now, logistically, uh, you know, how do they qualify? Where do they go? Is it at the Masters games or, you know, whatever that's to be called? Um, or is it a separate thing? Because I think if you're going to do it, you want to do it big, right? You want to have a few hundred to, you know, 400 people competing total, total, because you're going to have so many different options of age groups.

You know, what are the teams look like? Is it partner? Is it teams of four? Um, Um, I think it almost would have to be a separate weekend. It'd be tough to have, you know, cause then you're getting into, you have 800 athletes and then you're getting into the cost of that. And that footprint of the venue, it becomes, you know, it becomes, I think it becomes its own thing at that point.

[00:36:43] David Syvertsen: Okay. Um, Sam, I have one more question about 2023. Do you have anything else you want to talk about? 22 then we dive into the meat topic. No, let's keep going. So 2023. This is something from, this can be a broad question. Where do you draw the line of trying to keep athletes on their toes, slash trying new things, things that you know they're probably not training, but preventing it from going away from the safety component, logistical component, also Highlighting athletes, right?

I've seen competitions. I won't mention their names on here, but just where it almost seems like they're trying too hard to catch athletes off guard. And because of that, you're kind of not always testing true fitness slash making them all look pretty bad out there. Right? I mean, you can even talk about this, how you Scale movements within the championship from age 35 to 65.

At what point do you take out ring muscle ups? At what point do you take out handstand walks? Knowing that you don't want someone to get hurt. You want a big highlight, but you also are trying to test fitness and the unknowable. How serious, how hard is that from your perspective of. Try new things without going over the top.

[00:37:57] Joe Linton: So safety is always a big thing. Um, if you're going to do something new and different, like, you gotta make sure that it's, uh, it's safe. Because that's the last thing that you want to happen. You don't want someone to get hurt and then it's just a bad look for everybody. Um, trying new things, you know, it's, uh, it's something that we always think of and I think what we've been good at so far is, you know, combining workouts in a new way.

Like, I can't tell you, like, I already have one workout for Uh, the games next year that is, I'd never seen before. Like I've never seen it done before. And I'm like, and I told Bob and he's like, holy crap. I'm like, yeah, it's going to be sick. Is it today's spice and wine? No, it's not. No, it's not. It's a, it's better.

And, um, And it's, it's stuff like that to where, and then nothing, nothing in it is new, they're not new movements. And, um, and again, it's one of those ones where you can replace movements and you're still going to get the same effect. So, but trying new things, new movements, um, I think it's cool. I think it's fun to see, uh, we like to, for the Legends Championship, make sure that we give people a heads up if they're going to be like, you know, in previous years where we use the heavy jump ropes, we like to give people a heads up.

Um, Um, last thing you want to do is have, you know, frustrated people. Everyone's not doing something at our competition. Um, like at the games day programming or regionals in the games, legless rope climbs for women. Yep. That was a, you know, but what did we see the next year? Women can do it. The pegboard.

What do you see the next year? And so I do like seeing that if we do something like that, I typically. I think Castro does the same way, you know, we won't put it on the last day because If we're going to kind of potentially trip someone up, we want to give them enough time to battle back. Interesting. You know, we don't want to like a loss, some weird loss on some weird new movement that, you know, on Sunday, it just kind of will leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

I think going back to just core CrossFit, um, that's one of the biggest compliments we got from last year's programming is how it was just core CrossFit. Love that. Yeah. I think a lot of people... That's what they like and You know, I think the masters community especially likes that more. Yeah more a little more simple.

Yep That's what they

[00:40:16] David Syvertsen: grew up on within the CrossFit space. That's what they're used to. They feel safer doing it and Yeah, that's that's that's always a really cool part. I actually think you guys do a really good job programming The qualifiers and the championships because it's creative, it's different.

You guys do certain kinds of workouts that I've never seen elsewhere. So that's always cool to me because there's so many, so many people programming out there right now. It's almost like you can't be surprised by anything. But every year I'm like, Hmm, that was, that was, that was different this workout today.

It's different. Um, so that, that's, I think you guys do a really good job of that. The let's dive into what most people want to hear about. The 2024 games. We don't know what they're being called yet, right? Is that something you guys still need to kind of figure out?

[00:41:01] Joe Linton: Yeah, that's getting real close though.

November, you know, in November. Um, and again, like, unless it's pen to paper, set in stone, um, you know, we're not going to say anything. That would be... Uh, Irresponsible. Absolutely. Yeah. Like actually, you know, that's a lie. It's this now. Or it's this. And so it's like, what do you believe? Right. And um, and it's funny being on the other side for so long and having like the same feelings about how CrossFit announces things.

Now I'm like, oh. Now I get it. Yup. Okay. Yup. Alright.

[00:41:34] David Syvertsen: Yup. And the

[00:41:34] Joe Linton: A's are signed, everything. Then you have to be a little patient. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. Interesting.

[00:41:38] Sam Rhee: I think one of the last things CrossFit wants is that morning chalk up announces it before they get to announce it. That, I think that bugs the crap out of them.

So. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:46] Joe Linton: You gotta be careful with that stuff. That can't be, that can't be fun. You know,

[00:41:48] David Syvertsen: it's uh. Has your phone started to blow up from that, I mean, from, I guess Sam and I are considered media. Sorta. Right? A podcast. Yeah. In a back storage closet at our gym. But. Yeah. Are you gonna, do you, do you forecast that?

Like, I remember even when we hosted the open announcement here, I had more Morning Chalka people reach out trying to do something that I wasn't allowed to do, they weren't allowed to do. And I don't think there was any ill will there. They just don't know. They don't know really what the real process is with that cross it has.

Have you started being reached out to for?

[00:42:19] Joe Linton: Oh yeah. Um, like today I have three. This is first of three. Um, I have the CrossFit Games podcast with Chase. After we work out, and then tonight I have Masters Chatter, um, which they're, they're a cool, they're a fun group to talk to because it's all Masters, Games, Athletes, and they've all done Legends and, you know, they, uh, they, they share their opinions.

I used to do. But it's a, it's a, it's a good time and it's funny, my wife's like, are you going to get bored of saying the same stuff? I'm like, honestly, talking to different people, it seems like a different conversation about the same question, which I like. So absolutely ready for it. Um. I think I did two last week.

Yep. I have a total of five this week. Wow. And then I talked to Morning Chalk up on Friday, they're doing something with, uh, I think it's a combined article with all three, uh, three areas, you know, adaptive, teenage, and us. So smart. And, um, yeah, that was pretty, that was cool though. You know, Tegan, I believe is, uh, yeah, she was here for the open

[00:43:20] David Syvertsen: announcement.

Yeah. Yeah. I think she does good stuff. Can you, I've heard the story. Some of our listeners have not. Mm hmm. The, the Bob Italy, you, you late night workout texting with Dave Castro story. How did you guys actually find out slash get asked to run the masters cross the games?

[00:43:41] Joe Linton: So it was exactly that. Um, Castro texts, Bob, Hey, we need to talk.

Bob texts back cause he was in Italy. I think going to breakfast at the time that, Hey, you know, I'm on a vacation with my family for two weeks. Can we, uh, Can we link up when I get back? And Castro, uh, said, no, this needs to happen ASAP. So I kind of, you know, a little scary, a little shiver down your spine.

So Bob, uh, you know, throws on his sandals or whatever, you know, he needed to go outside really quick. Had a quick conversation with Castro. Castro said, you know, we're looking to split off the masters from the games. And we want, you know, we want to talk to you guys about the possibility of you guys running that.

that section or that division of it. So he said, all right, cool. I got to talk to Joe. Um, and then, um, we'll set up a meeting for when Bob gets back into, into town. How long ago was this? This is months ago. This was at least four months ago. So like in June? Probably. Right around there. Early summer. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Um, so, Bob texts me, or he tried to call me, but, uh, maybe it was the voicemail, in the middle of the night, because it's midnight for me. Yeah. Um, he texts me, Hey, tried to call you. Castro wants us to run the games next year for the masters. Wow. And I was like, what the? I'm sleeping. Am I dreaming?

So I went, you know, I got to go, you know, to do my old man pee in the middle of the night and I'm like, I'm not going to bed. And I was like, so excited that, uh, Um, I want to tell my wife, but I wanted her to sleep. So I was like, Oh, I gotta go do something. So I went and like, I did a row for like 20 minutes and I was like, still just, you know, the whole time, phenomenal row, by the way, I couldn't even feel the pain.

You probably crushed it. I was good. Uh, so then I was like, all right, well, might as well start. Working on Legends 2023, you know, had some stuff to do and I think partially why we have this opportunity is why we're so prepared for this year already because normally there's a lot of stuff that needs to get crossed off and it's kind of like, we're already done with that.

We're already done with this. We're already done with that. And so, um, yeah, so we had a conversation with Castro when Bob got back into town, he kind of gave us a lowdown on his idea, um, on how, uh, you know, how much freedom we would have. You know, he confirmed we can expand the field, um, and he, you know, it was from the get go, it was very clear that we were going to have a lot of say, and we were going to be able to run the competition, you know, how we run our current competition.

So that was really

[00:46:15] Sam Rhee: exciting. So even before you guys said yes, he actually sort of laid out a lot of these things for you so that you could say. This sounds like a good deal for us. For sure, because

[00:46:25] Joe Linton: we both had our hesitations, you know, because we created Legends to give the athletes an experience that I guess they weren't getting at the games at a bigger field and a different location and, you know.

Was there

[00:46:37] Sam Rhee: anything sticky where you're like, I don't know about

[00:46:40] Joe Linton: that? No. Really? It was everything that you guys wanted. It was like, okay. Really? And so. I... Did

[00:46:47] David Syvertsen: you have a relationship with Dave Castro prior to that text slash

[00:46:51] Joe Linton: call? Yeah, so Dave, um, you know, not on text conversation basis, but Dave would stop by our competitions all the time.

So I used to run little, you know, little local gym comps. You know, male, male, male, female, individual, um, we had four per year and, um, they were like 120 people, but they would basically buy equipment for the gym. So that was my thing. Like I told all my members, if you volunteer, we get these rovers. Got it.

So smart. They were great competitions. And Dave would, uh, Dave would swing by and, um, say hi and, which was really cool. He was living in Carl's bed at the time. So that was where my gym was. So he would always come by, which was really fun. Um, he came by, I think legends. 2019, the last year I was at my gym, he swung by and uh, that was pretty cool because uh, he kind of saw the, the operation that we had, which was, you know, tight knit, just a different in a gym with all my equipment, you know, we didn't have any equipment sponsor and um, a little chaotic, you know, but uh, controlled chaos.

Yeah. Yeah. And then as far as the legend's name and CrossFit, um, you know, a lot of people gave them a lot of good feedback about us over the years and we were. That's great. Um, and, uh, but that never really was the goal. The goal was just to continue to make a better competition every year. And so I think that is why one of the main reasons why, um, we were selected.

And also the, like you talked about working with mayhem and moving cities. I think that shows a lot of, um, commitment and planning and. effort into collaborating and working with others. And so I think that's another big reason why we were

[00:48:25] Sam Rhee: chose.

Here are 500 papers you have to sign and then you got to keep your mouth shut for like Three months or long like you kept your mouth shut for a really long time, and I remember when Dave and Bison hosted the 23. 2 We had to like I couldn't keep it was really hard for me to keep my mouth shut as a coach for even like a month about it and so like how hard was that like You know the shaking the signing of the deal and then like having to not say anything for a while on

[00:48:58] Joe Linton: that So yeah, the initial conversations, um, it was all about, you know, what we can, what we're going to do, how much freedom we can choose the location, this and that.

And it was really exciting. And then you get into the nitty gritty of the, you know, the contract or how it's going to look and you start to talk to different Uh, more people because that, you know, that is their field. Like we, you know, we started to talk to the finance guy and then this person. So once you finally get to the point where you sign, yeah, then it's like, okay, now you just need to be quiet until further developments.

So it was difficult.

[00:49:31] Sam Rhee: How many people

[00:49:32] Joe Linton: knew just you, Bob, me, Bob. My wife did know. My dog. Did they have to sign NDAs too? No, no. Um, Oh man, I told my mom. Oh really? Yeah, I told my mom, but my mom like she's never she's like, oh Crosby that's cool. I was like, hey mom like you know, uh, you know Dave Castro reached out and she wants me to he wants me to run the game.

She's like That's cool. Um, so we got, do the kids need socks or underwear? I'm like, yeah. And that's exactly, she's like, I don't know. She's like, I don't know what you said, son, but she's like, good job. I'm like,

[00:50:07] David Syvertsen: that's it. That's

[00:50:08] Joe Linton: all you told. Good job. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's pretty tough. Yeah, I'm really good at keeping secrets.

Yeah, sometimes I forget though. This one I didn't, but like when people confide in me, I'm like, cool, I'm going to try to forget this because I don't want to screw this up. I messed up like two surprise birthday parties in my 20s and it was scarring, I think. So I just, I'm not saying it. Less is more.

[00:50:31] David Syvertsen: Less is more.

The relationship between you guys and CrossFit and how you guys are now a partnership. You know, that's something that could really be, you know, right now, it all seems good and easy and smooth, but how much support are you expecting from them, you know, what you're allowed to talk about, what you're allowed to talk about, what you're not, but financially, but also some of the logistics, you know, like I know they're giving you a lot of freedom, decision making, um, I actually think one of the hardest things about the sport with Masters is to support staff with video review once that whole process becomes in the quarterfinals and semifinals.

Is that on you now?

[00:51:15] Joe Linton: No, that's going to be another collaborative effort. Um, we take it very serious. I know you guys too serious. I guess you can't take it too serious, but, um, it's something that it takes us 80 plus hours. Split in between four guys right now or five. Um, but it takes a long time to just go through the videos.

Now we don't do every video, but we do every video that for everyone that's qualified. So we don't get on the whole leaderboard, but you know, once, once we see that cut line, we'll go, you know, five to eight spots behind it. Um, and possibly further, depending on, um, how many accept, you know, first round people are going to accept.

So it's something that, um, I feel like CrossFit HQ has gotten immensely better at. For sure. So, it's something that is...

[00:52:04] David Syvertsen: There's been a lot of outside pressure from a healer, a savant, right? Right. They do, in my opinion, I do think, without knowing those guys personally, they are doing it for the betterment of the sport.

They want to improve what's going on. They want to make sure no one's slipping through the cracks or based on reputation, they don't get a no rep on a video. Right. And I do agree with them, but are you ready for that? That there's going to be maybe some eyes on you guys now. Of hey, you gotta make sure that videos and standards are upheld even for some of the most famous

[00:52:36] Joe Linton: athletes.

Oh, not at all. Yeah, I'll mo rep anyone. Yeah. I don't care. Yeah. You know, you need to act like that if you want to be taken seriously. You can't give shortcuts or anything like that. So, I'm excited for it because... I think we can become even more strict, you know, about how the video should look, you know, because currently there's a few people that, because I've done it so much, I can tell the rep was complete, but, you know, where, like, it was, I couldn't even, the glare was there, or this, I'm like, well, if you look at it this way, then it's, you can see the rep is complete, but, um, uh, I think we can become even more strict, the support, the, the, uh, The level of, um, set up for the scorecards, the requirements, all that is going to be at the game's level.

Got it. So, I think everyone's going to take it more serious all around. And, um, I'm excited for that phase because even though it's not an exciting, uh, time to watch the same workout over and over and over. But it's, you know, you, you know, people are working very hard and this is a dream for them. So we need to take it, um, as serious as they do.

So, um. Yeah, I'm excited for it because it's going to clean up the process on our end too. People will take it more serious. So

[00:53:52] Sam Rhee: take me a little bit through the selection process next year. Let's suppose I'm a masters athlete and I'm like, all right, I'm ready to go to the games for 2024. I'm going to have to prep the same way now for the open, like I've have in years past, right?

And that's going to be programmed by CrossFit HQ and Dave Castro and his group and Bosman, right? And then I'm going to have to try to make it to quarterfinals. The same way. And those workouts are gonna be programmed again by Dave Castro and Bosman. Now, do you guys have, for knowledge, pre-knowledge, are you guys gonna have any input on, on the Masters side?

Because the masters workouts can be different in the open. They, well, the quarterfinals are definitely gonna be different, right? Because they always have been the A G O Q, if you wanted to call it back in the past, or, mm-hmm. or now the age group quarterfinals. What role do you guys have for that next year?

[00:54:43] Joe Linton: So, we've expressed that we want, um, to collaborate with semifinals and the games. So, semis to games, not quarterfinals. That's where we, uh, we've expressed, uh, what we want. And, it's looking like that's a possibility, so. Okay. Yeah, we're gonna find out, uh, you know, find out soon, so. Okay. At that point, just because, um, you know, if we are running the games, it's kind of...

Kind of like what we currently do, you know, I, there's an expectation of what people can do if you're also programming them for the games. So, um, we do want some say. And, um... Again, they've been very, um, supportive and hear us out all the time, so, you know, hopefully that's the direction it goes. So

[00:55:31] Sam Rhee: CrossFit still has to handle the age group quarterfinals, or that's the plan right now?

That's the plan, yeah. Okay, and then once you get to the semis, and last year they took how many in the semis per age group? Thirty?

[00:55:42] David Syvertsen: Thirty. quarterfinals and then ten from semifinals.

[00:55:47] Sam Rhee: Okay, so you're gonna, they're gonna have to ope up that number, right? You would think, yeah. Right? Right. And then... You're going to start get potentially get involved on the semi final level either in programming or evaluating or both or something like that, right?

For sure. Okay. And then you're going to take 40

[00:56:07] Joe Linton: per age group. That's the goal. I mean, that's the idea right now. A lot, a lot of it comes down to, you know, we're on a search for venue. And how many people you can get depends on what type of venue do you have, how big is that, how long do you have it for.

You kind of reverse engineer that as well based on how many heats and how many workouts. So, um, that's the goal. It will increase significantly from the current games roster of 10. Um, you know, Castro said at least double. So...

[00:56:39] Sam Rhee: I can imagine I'm planning, uh, gotta go West Coast if I'm, you know, for the, you know, gotta plan my trip for the West Coast for the games, probably.

[00:56:47] Joe Linton: Probably. Now, most of our efforts are looking into California, but we're not only looking in California. It's, it's gotta make sense overall for the competition, and um, you know. We'll see how it goes. We've, uh, we have framework events, you know, Danny and his team, um, they're in charge of that. They're professionals at it.

That's what they do. So they're out there searching for a host location for us right now. We're shooting them a bunch of ideas. I'm getting a bunch of ideas given a, uh, email and message to us. And I share those right along to the team, you know, Virginia Beach was thrown out there. Um, someplace in Florida.

Um, so we're, we're definitely sharing all those and it's not. It's not crossed off the list by any means. And if the individual

[00:57:29] Sam Rhee: and teams are going traditionally in August, then I'm planning, I'm going to my games, uh, experience about a month after, or you

[00:57:39] David Syvertsen: said

[00:57:39] Joe Linton: shortly after. Within a month. We want to be, we want to be close to, um, to the younger, you know, the pros.

We want to be close to them just so that we don't. And also you don't have the master's athlete training, you know, year round. And the

[00:57:55] Sam Rhee: semis would be around the same time as the individual semis? I think it

[00:57:59] Joe Linton: would have to be. I don't see why that schedule needs to change. They already have that down. They already have that system down.

It's not set in stone, but I don't see why they would change that schedule. I don't think it would make any sense to. Might as well just keep it the same since. You would have to think it rolls that way

[00:58:17] David Syvertsen: before school season almost has to be right. I mean, it would be really tough for a master's athlete to go anywhere once school's in session for people that have kids.

Or do you, at what point do you draw the line of like, Hey, that If you're going to take this serious, you're going to have to make a couple of these schedules type sacrifices. I mean, if you are within a month of the pros games, you will probably be before Labor Day, which is usually the starting point for a lot of schools.

I know some people out West. I don't know where you guys are. Some do start in August. Do you ever have to consider some lifestyle situations for the Masters athlete in terms of trying to get it done in X time? And part two of that question is the support staff that is required physically at the games.

If you're gonna have judges at the games, are you gonna have those same judges at the masters two weeks later, you know, a week later, three weeks later? Can, is it gonna actually bite into the availability of those

[00:59:17] Joe Linton: people? So we, uh, every year we always take into account, uh, account the, uh, schedule as far as work life balance, what they got going on.

That's the main reason why we do a blind leaderboard. And we just give all six for our online qualifier, all six workouts at once. Love that. So get it done whenever you can. I mean, we don't eat up, you know, three weeks of your summer with your family and kids. Um, so. Then going into, you know, planning even how long the games is or how long our event is and when it is, December was always a good time because it was, you know, it was a nice little end of year stamp for most Masters athletes is figure out where they're at.

And it, it almost, a lot of people told us that they were, they would go through the holidays, um, less stressed about their fitness because they kind of like ramped up and they kind of now can take a few weeks back and enjoy the holidays. And then, You know, still work out, but take some time off because they just did a big competition.

So that's why we like that December event time frame so much. But with the games, you know, we want it to flow as a season and we want to get close to where they're at so that they, you know, the people that are going for the games, they can, you know, wrap up their, their season and take some time off and, you know, hopefully come to the December event that we'll have next year with Legends as well.

Um, so support staff. CrossFit is going to be also operationally supporting each one of these events. That's huge. They've already said that they're going to teach us how they teach their judges and floor crew, which is so important. You know, you want it to look good. You want them all to be, you know, moving the same.

But then you also want very clean judging across the board. Um, the way that we... Train our judges, you know, we give them a lot of information prior, but most of it's like the night before or the morning of and we select judges that are, you know, highly experienced and we put certain people in charge of other people and there's a lot of eyes on, especially the beginning heats to clear up any, you know, questions or, you know, questionable reps giving out by judges.

So, um, having their support on that side is going to, uh, Be huge and I think you're gonna see a lot of people do both, you know, a lot of these judges. Um, they're hardcore And they support it immensely they travel and spend their own money to travel around the country to not just the games But like Wadapalooza.

Yeah, all these different events and they love it and they all know each other. Mm hmm it's like this a whole other community that I didn't know existed until like 2021. Okay. Oh, okay. Like you guys all, y'all, y'all do this. This is cool. And so, uh, I think it's important. So we're trying to take care of them this year, especially as much as possible because we want them to come, you know, come to, uh, both of our events next year, especially the, you know, the games.

[01:02:18] Sam Rhee: Now the format of the. Master's Games is going to be similar to or as close to the current Master's Games, you know, event schedule, number of days, like, or is it closer to like, say, what you guys have set up for Legends at this point? You know, number of days, number of events.

[01:02:37] Joe Linton: We're looking at three and four days.

Three and, either three or four days. Three or four days. Three would be a minimum. Um, we would like four because I want to do... I want to get a good thorough test. Um, for that many athletes in three days, that would be difficult.

[01:02:51] Sam Rhee: I see. And then at least eight, maybe 10 events, 12 events, possibly 14 events.

[01:02:58] David Syvertsen: How many events are you planning?

[01:03:00] Joe Linton: Um, minimum, it's going to be eight events. Um, that would be our minimums, right? Cause I think that's what, you know, if you have four days, you got to. You got to take advantage of that time.

[01:03:11] Sam Rhee: And then do you start adding the sort of crossfit games type events like bike, long, long distance running, Some sort of obstacle course.

Yeah, like all the crazy, uh, sort of, um, sort of

[01:03:26] Joe Linton: non traditional. I'm going to ask, right? I'm going to ask all these equipment sponsors and this and that to help me set this up or help me create this because I think that, uh, that would be something again that, The masters have not experienced. And that is a big thing.

Like I've been asking, um, I asked a lot of games athletes over the past year, even before, um, you know, Castro and team reached out, I asked him, you know, what was one games workout that wasn't programmed for you? You know, because I want to replicate

[01:03:56] David Syvertsen: that. Last year or

[01:03:57] Joe Linton: just in the past? Any year. Like the, you know, like Justin Lasala, uh, Jen Dieter, these people that have been to the games six, seven, eight times.

I'm like, what was one event that you really wanted to do that wasn't programmed for you? And, uh, You know, they all gave me different answers. And, um, that's the goal. It's like, cool. Like then we could easily replicate that, you know, depending on, you know, I'm not gonna, I don't think we're going to set up an obstacle course in December, but, you know, that's the goal is like even experiencing a workout at the games that you saw the pros do that the masters didn't.

Um, I think that would be really cool to see and that's something that, uh, again, goes into athlete experience and giving them something that they haven't gone through yet. Is it possible,

[01:04:39] Sam Rhee: do you think, for someone like a Sam Dancer to compete in the individual or maybe team, uh, and then also in the

[01:04:46] Joe Linton: Masters?

Absolutely. That guy's a, that guy's a beast.

[01:04:50] Sam Rhee: I mean, with the timing and everything as well, like. I

[01:04:52] Joe Linton: think so.

[01:04:53] Sam Rhee: And then they'd have to complete two semi finals, like both the individual plus the masters semi finals. Did you read

[01:05:00] Joe Linton: like one of his latest Instagram posts where he just like, he kind of went through like a bunch of little short life experiences?

Yeah. Yeah. He can definitely do

[01:05:07] David Syvertsen: it. He's, he's, he's the top 1 percent of the top 1

[01:05:10] Joe Linton: percent of the top

[01:05:10] David Syvertsen: 1%. Generally speaking though, you don't, do you think there's a lot of athletes? Do you think they're

[01:05:15] Sam Rhee: going to have to pick one of the other? Yeah. Are you going to try to facilitate that? If there are these.

Yeah. Absolutely. Unicorns that can do that sort of thing?

[01:05:23] Joe Linton: That'd be tough. Um, If they want to, they'll do it. But as far as, you know, Scheduling, timing, As far as, you know, scheduling something around, You know, the 1%, the 1%, the 1%, We probably wouldn't do that. You know, we would just ask you to choose and, You know, make your best choice that you want.

You know, because there's a lot of other people that aren't in that boat and we should probably be paying attention to them more.

[01:05:48] David Syvertsen: That brings up the finances a little bit with sponsorships and a broadcast. You know, we actually talked on this podcast a few weeks ago about how expensive a broadcast can be and what you guys invested in that for the sake of us, the Masters athletes, um, You know, and then I even want to bring up payouts for a winner of the CrossFit Games, right?

In my opinion, and I could be wrong, you can tell me if I'm wrong here, if you are really pursuing the highest level of Masters sport, it's more out of passion than trying to pay your bills. You know, very few Masters athletes are pro athletes to the point where that is... That's their income. That's how they pay their bills.

Does that change now? Does the payout change? Do your, does your budget change? Will there be a broadcast? You know, because I know a lot of that comes down to the money.

[01:06:42] Joe Linton: You know. Yeah. Money's huge. I mean, your broadcasts are crazy expensive. And it's weird because... There's no in between. So it's like you pay 000 for a still cam that everyone hates, or you pay 200, 000.

You know, there's like nothing in between. For the top of the top, because you know, when you start, when you get to that level, you can't, the staff and the requirements of what these guys need to do this, it's like there's nothing in between. So it'd be nice if there was something in between. That would, I think you would see so many more broadcasts on competitions that aren't, you know, that aren't super high end, like you can, you know.

I think you would see, you would see so many more broadcasts, like, uh, like at MFC. Right. You know, if there was something in between, we could all afford it. You know, we being kind of like the Legends MFC, you know, level. What do you think

[01:07:41] Sam Rhee: about your broadcast quality last year for Legends? And what would your goals be for next year's?

It was cool. So wait, what are you guys doing for this year? Actually, for

[01:07:50] Joe Linton: your broadcast, even. So we're not doing anything like last year before, um, we're, we're tapped out. Okay. Cause that was

[01:07:56] David Syvertsen: a lot of money

[01:07:56] Sam Rhee: to have Sean Woodland and the whole like, yeah. Uh, the, who else announced it was like, everyone was there.

The, the, the

[01:08:03] Joe Linton: big Tommy was on there. You're rich. Rich was on there as well. I mean, year before we had Sean Woodland, Ani Sakamoto, Bill Grundler. Um, it was awesome. Right. Yeah. But we had, we're tapped out. So. Cool. This year we have an, we have an idea of what we could possibly do, but um, you know, I would expect something, you know, kind of like what M F C had to do.

It's, it's almost, you get to a point where you just can't, you can't afford it anymore. People are gonna be

[01:08:29] Sam Rhee: scared 'cause they're gonna look at this year's legends broadcast and be like, wait, these guys are the guys running the games next year.

[01:08:35] David Syvertsen: Yeah. Yeah. They'll do that. In some cases it's probably better to not have.

Yeah,

[01:08:39] Joe Linton: there'll be that. But I think that, like my wife brought this up and um, you know, there's going to be people scared about everything. And there's going to be, it's like, we just got to go through running this for one year and show everyone what we can do. I mean, we ran, like you talk about 2020, we ran a competition during a pandemic.

We figured it out. It rained day one. And it's ruined everything, but we figured it out. And I think like it's those opportunities that is another reason why we were chosen because it showed, it shows the master's community like yourself, like you've been every year that how committed we are, you know, a lot of people would have thrown in the towel.

And so I think that, um, even potentially if we don't do a broadcast this year. There'll be some people that are upset and I'm sorry for that, but I can tell you that with the support that CrossFit's going to be giving us next year, financially and operationally, and how the way this is going to go, everyone's going to be very happy.

Yeah. You know, the whole division split too, like everyone's upset on feeling cast out, feeling, you know, pushed aside. For the growth of the sport, this is amazing. You have so many more people involved and the potential it opens up for each of these competitions to provide a more unique special experience with its own focus.

Everyone is going to start to realize how much better it is.

[01:10:00] David Syvertsen: And it's more realistic for more people to make it, you know, like sometimes, you know, to be top 10 after semifinals, it's almost like it's like a pipe dream, especially as you start seeing names like Scott Panchik, Sam Dancer, Dan Bailey, you know, Elijah Muhammad, all these guys starting to come into masters, soon it's going to be Vellner, it's like, dude, you have no shot of getting to this level, but now it's 40.

It does, it opens the door for so many more people and multiplies and compounds. Right. Yeah. per

[01:10:26] Joe Linton: age group. Well, currently they would, they would not go back to the games. You know, a lot of the guys didn't, didn't want to, didn't want to go back and compete as a master. And I think maybe that's because of how they were, you know, almost treated at the games or it was only 10 and it wasn't a big deal.

But I think that by opening this up to a different competition to run it or help run it, um, increasing the field and getting those guys back involved. I think there are a lot, you're going to see a lot more of the aging games athlete that we saw 10 years ago, um, competing as a Masters now. Do you think

[01:11:00] Sam Rhee: that now, because of that, you have a shot at being a professional Masters game athlete?

Like the only, you know, cause you have the Sam Briggs and these others who are now, uh, huge individual superstars coming into the sport. Um, I know that the only one that I know for sure who's making money as a pure, like as a professional is Jason Grubb. Probably, I would say. And

[01:11:22] Joe Linton: he had to work That's even a probably, right?

Yeah. If he didn't have his own, you know, programming or whatever, you know, is he able to fund this? And Is that

[01:11:30] Sam Rhee: a goal for you is to try to make the ability to be a professional Masters Games athlete possible, but you would only have but to do so, you'd have to have increased media exposure, more, uh, publicity, more I will say that it can happen because last year when we were watching the Legends broadcast, um, it's like the Olympics.

You may not know the sport very well or the people involved, but you get to know the stories a little bit, and then you get sucked into it. Like, it doesn't matter if it's whatever the sport is. I know cause I watched my wife watch and she's not a huge pro CrossFitter spectator. But when she got into some of the stories of some of like the competition and how close they were on, on the last day, she started watching because it was interesting to her to see whether Jason Grubb would be able to, you know, I forget who the other competitor was.

Um, but you know, yeah, just eke it out. And you could see that at the end. Um, do you feel like you could do that with. Absolutely.

[01:12:38] Joe Linton: Um, with expanding the field again, it gives us opportunity to have a shot at doing that because I think currently it would never happen. If it's only 10, it's not considered serious by the athlete.

Yes, but by sponsors, not. There's not enough competition. So it's like create something bigger. Create something that has an opportunity to be, you know, um, significant. And I think you'll, you know, you'll find, you'll find sponsors forking up more money to be present. And especially once they realize how much money masters spend on site.

That is something that a lot of people don't realize that. So 2021 Viore, they sold out in one day. I remember hearing that, yeah. They had to go to the local stores and, you know, raid their warehouses. 2022. It's the last year, right? Mayhem, their store did very well. The coffee shop did very well. So this year going into our competition December with first swarm and tier, you know, we're having them present an athlete check in.

We're going to make it like a party, but like once we get the data on how much money is spent by the masters, then sponsors are going to want to be there. They're going to spend more money to be there. They're going to bring a bigger team. It's going to create a bigger party. It's going to get more eyeballs.

And then we begin to have this snowball effect of what we can provide on a broadcast level. Because if you look at 2021, we covered all four days, but the build out of the production wasn't even as close to what we did last year. I mean, last year we had like, you know, Roe and Tony Marquez doing activations with the sponsors.

And there was a lot more build out. And we had, you know, the Jason Grubb story and the other stories shared in between. Um, and so last year was more expensive than the year before. And we only covered it for half the time. But it's like, what goes into you, we want to be able to provide that for four days.

So it's going to take us a couple years to like, build this out and get more stories. And in the meantime, taking content like, you know, Jeff here. Um, this type of content, he's been doing some reels with athletes back at his home gym. Like, stuff like that is what's gonna help build this and get more eyeballs on people training for certain competitions, which, uh, doesn't happen currently.

[01:14:56] Sam Rhee: We talked about the numbers and what it would take to make enough money on the broadcast side, and it just didn't seem like it was adding up, uh, in the past. Like, how is that going to change, honestly? Like, if I was a cynic, I would say... You've told me, it's never made money. The numbers that we looked at, like, in terms of the viewership, like, how much the sponsor, how many eyeballs sponsors would want for a broadcast, even CrossFit realized I mean, last year that they just couldn't blow that kind of money on, on masters broadcasting.

So what makes you think like this is going to happen? Like where, what signs do you see where you're like, okay, you know what, the potential is there?

[01:15:43] Joe Linton: I think with it being separate, you're going to have a lot less people that go and watch the pros. Obviously they're not going to go, they might not go to the masters games, but I feel like they would tune in.

Yep. They would watch. If we continue to do podcasts like this and talk about how important, um, next year it is for everyone to watch or everyone to tune in or next year, you know, come buy a ticket, come spectate, be there, be present, because unless the community gets behind this and not just the masters community, the entire community, then this new era, uh, won't be as successful as it should be or as it can be.

You know, if, you know, Don Fall wants how many hundred,

[01:16:31] David Syvertsen: twenty to thirty million. 20 to 30 million people crossfitting.

[01:16:34] Joe Linton: 20 to 30 million people crossfitting, so by just tuning in, by maybe making the trip out, you know, if you can, if you're close, or you just want to make a trip, but it's so important for the entire crossfit community and their families.

and their friends to tune in because that is so important because then we can start to build something that could be very games like for each of these, uh, divisions. It's not impossible. It's gotta be, there's gotta be something there. Otherwise everyone would have scrapped this years ago. Um, there, I mean, there's, there's gotta be a way to figure it out.

And I think that if, you know, we as a community begin to share how important 2024 is. of now, this is the first official year of like everything that is done for this competition. Every dollar spent, every view, every tune in, every like on Instagram, every follow. Now, as you know, it's, that's the, that's the level of support for that, um, community, for the masters, for the teenage, for the adaptive, they're going to be in the same boat.

So if we want this to get bigger and bigger and bigger, then we need to help push this together. It's a lot of

[01:17:41] Sam Rhee: responsibility because. as CrossFit HQ, they just farmed it out to you guys. They were like, we can't accept this is too much responsibility here. And if it's successful, they benefit. If it dies, it was like, well, it was Bob and Joe.

It was funny. And that's a lot of, isn't that scary that you guys are basically holding the future of masters competition and sport in your hand? Because that's what's going to happen.

[01:18:07] Joe Linton: I wish you guys can be in these meetings because it's not like that. They um They want this to happen. Boz, uh, we've worked with Heather, uh, Heather Lawrence.

Like, it's insane how much they care. They're like, we, they, I mean, uh, I forget the guy's name, the chief marketing officer, he's super bummed. Like, everyone is so excited not to farm it out because they really want this to work. I'm telling you, like, there's, with these, everyone that is putting this much effort into it, there's obviously potential for this to be successful.

And to be way bigger than everyone, everyone can think, or everyone thinks it can be.

[01:18:48] David Syvertsen: You know, one thing that he, in that answer, great answer by the way, Joe, is... It's on us too, Sam. Like, you and I. Oh, yeah. It's on us as CrossFitters. It's on us as Masters athletes. It's on us as guys that have a podcast that has some traction.

Right? That I don't want to walk out of this recording, out of dinner tonight, out of the Masters competition in December and be like, Good luck, guys. Like, I, you know, we're going to continue to ask Joe what we can do to help him. Hopefully

[01:19:18] Sam Rhee: not contribute my athletic

[01:19:20] David Syvertsen: ability. Well, there's more to it. And this is where, you know, one of the first things we talked about, I think one of the hardest things to do, but it is vital to the longterm success of CrossFit and, and the sport is blending the affiliates with the sport and not always keeping them separate.

What can an affiliate do to help out Joe? Joe Joe's put his money Joe and Bob have put their money literally where their mouth is. And show what they could do to help us. What are we doing back? And I think if we have a lot of people slash everybody in that frame of mind, what can an affiliate do? Cause I'll tell you what affiliate owners and coaches, all of you are going to be a master's athlete at some point, everybody is going to be, everyone's heading there.

We have 25 year olds in this gym. They're going to be a master's athlete at some point. They might not be a competitor, but I'll tell you what, they're going to be able to follow the sport more and actually. Connect with some of these Masters athletes and relate to them. I can't, I'm a 37 year old, like there are some athletes I can't connect with that are 19, 20, 21 and just like, all right, that's awesome.

You're a pro athlete. That's really cool. I can't connect. I don't have an emotional attachment to that. But I do think whether you compete or not, you can emotionally attach yourself to Masters athletes, but it needs to be facilitated by the affiliate. And this is why, like we just got done talking about a podcast that was released today, Sam.

Rx Plus, right? Should do Rx Plus workouts, right? And, you know, there's good and bad to it, but I don't like the notion, the vibe that you'll get from some people that are so against Rx Plus, or competing, or the sport, or like, Hey, you're not a competitor because you don't do Fran. I still remember back, one of the most famous names in CrossFit right now said, You're not a CrossFit competitor unless you do Fran in under 230.

Like that was kind of like a almost like a really like those kind of statements and looking down on those that want to push themselves physically to the sport can be a detriment to the long term of his sport, right? Because what happens when we all turn 35, 40, 45? Body changes, recovery is worse. Hey, hang them up guys.

Hang them up. Let's not push anymore. And that's fine if you choose to do that. But for those that want to keep pursuing, the support needs to be there. And that comes from the affiliate. That is an affiliate job. And I'm going to get a little fired up talking about the open, Sam, right? That's where I was going to go right now.

This is one of the reasons why if you're in a coach or an affiliate owner. You need to push the open. I was about to say that. It's going to help your business. So if you want to be selfish about it, fine. It's going to help your business. But for this, for Joe, you have to push the open. And stop making it, oh, I don't like to compete, I'm not going to do the open.

If you think the Open is only about competing and getting a good score versus a bad score, you are so wrong.

[01:22:08] Sam Rhee: I see a lot of internet feedback where people don't sign up for the Open because they don't see a reason for it. They don't feel like, why should CrossFit get our 20 bucks? And now that I feel like...

For no reason. I could do the workouts without, it doesn't make any difference or, or affiliates that don't make the open a priority, or it's just sort of a, an afterthought and now that this sport is being pushed through legends and these guys are, you know, if I wanted to support these guys, if I wanted to be.

Uh, positive about master sport, I would have to say the single easiest thing to do as an affiliate is to push more people to register for the open and sign up. I think if you saw that, that would be a clear indication that this, the CrossFit itself is healthy, that it's not dead like some people have been talking about recently.

It's CrossFit. And that, right, and that the sport, especially on the master side, is something that. Has real potential, but it's going to take that kind of grassroots effort, collaborative

[01:23:12] David Syvertsen: effort. It's up to us for things to happen.

[01:23:14] Joe Linton: And I think the more you push the open also, I mean it helps the affiliate because like back when You know, they're in CrossFit is trying to get these, you know ESPN and other contracts, right?

Yeah. Um, I remember when they used to replay the games During like the winter or spring I would get like 10 to 15 more members Yeah, and people that were like 45. I'm like, oh that looks cool. I want to try that They're not saying they want to go compete against Rich Froning and you know those people they're not saying that they understand their level But they're like this looks cool Yeah.

And every month we would get like 10 to 15 more. And so like, we want to get back to that and back to the old CrossFit days. Cool. Then we need to get back to, you know, pushing the open. The open is important. And I feel like as an affiliate owner, you like, if you have a multi prong approach to. How you explain the open to people.

People can be competitive or people can do it for the affiliate or people can do it for CrossFit as a whole, you know, they can do it for us CrossFit masters, you know, our games and you know pushing that and again the bigger the community the more the more successful all these events are going to be and CrossFit as a whole, getting to 20 to 30 million people

[01:24:27] Sam Rhee: worldwide.

They need an app and I've said this a million times, they need a kick ass app and I'll just leave it at that.

[01:24:33] David Syvertsen: Um, so we'll almost wrap up here. I do, I want to ask you a couple of questions that I actually saw on your comment section when things were announced. And I think these are both fair, but I want to give you the opportunity to give your response to them.

And one of them, I actually, I'm going to reverse the order of the outline. Your role slash relationship with people that are actually competing in the sport. You have friends that competed. You've coached athletes. That's another thing we need to know about Joe. Joe coached athletes that competed at the games.

All right. So again, this is like another like feather in the cap of credibility, okay? Does your, do you view, and Bob as well, do you guys view your role as changing now because you are now really the face of slash in charge of master sport that you can't Have certain conversations certain people can't know about certain things before others, you know Like Jason I cringed a little bit when Jason Grubb said, oh we knew about this for for a long time that you know We were gonna have you know legends was gonna have the games.

It's like well, I didn't know that like what else does Jason Grubb potentially know that others don't, and that could be someone he knows at CrossFit, it could be a relationship with you guys. Do you have to change your relationship with some people now that you have top secret information that you don't want to give or have this perception that someone may have a competitive advantage?

Maybe someone knows when the qualification process will be. Maybe someone knows how many events are at Legends. Someone knows some of the workouts, right? That's always been something Dave Castro has dealt with. Oh, Rich Froning, they know the workouts ahead of time. That kind of stuff. What if Joe tells you the

[01:26:13] Sam Rhee: workout later after, uh,

[01:26:15] David Syvertsen: He is.

We're going to strap him down to the chair. I was about to say, like, you might be privy to some of that information yourself. Yeah. I'm not, by the way, just so you

[01:26:22] Joe Linton: know. So like, you know, Jason Gobb and other people, they all claim to know things. Um, so I, we don't know, go back into, yeah.

[01:26:34] Sam Rhee: Yeah. And he's a great guy, so I'm not

[01:26:36] Joe Linton: going to, I just did his podcast and I told him the same thing.

I was like, if you go back in the calendar of when, or when you knew things, um, those were, you got wind of a conversation, a serious conversation. Yep. Um, but there was no like set in stone pen to paper, you know, like I told, like I've said a few times now, you know, people are like, Oh, and they need to tell us everything and we need to know now.

And I'm like, look, we're, we're, everyone's trying to run a business here. We want this to be as successful as possible. And there's a lot of. Professionals that are kind of the best in this realm, all working towards the same goal. So as soon as it's set in stone, we're going to tell you, it's not, it's, uh, it's not something that we would want to sit on as a business, especially going in this whole new direction.

I'm like, no, we need, we need everyone to know as soon as possible. So, um, you know, no one really knew anything, you know, until it was set in stone and then, um, conversation, you know, relationships with athletes. Yes. It'll, it'll change. Um, it has to, you want to be professional, then that does happen. And um, I'm pretty, uh, I don't like people.

Um, so I'm pretty good on my own already. So, uh, I found that out.

[01:27:47] David Syvertsen: I found that out in San Diego when those nightly meetings you guys have about standards. That

[01:27:52] Joe Linton: felt so bad. That's why Bob had an idea. I'm like, I'm going to yell at someone, dude. I can't, you know, but, uh, even when at Mayhem, we did it virtually.

And some guy's like, Hey, can we bounce the barbell? And I was like, when can you ever bounce the barbell? Oh my god. So, uh, no, so it'll be, you know, relationships with athletes will change. Um, you know, I don't coach any more games athletes, so that's not a problem. Um, but yeah, it'll change, but you know, you can still be friendly, but there has to be a professional level of, uh, secrecy and, you know, respect with whoever you're working with and what people should know to keep everything fair.

Um, I am. You know, I can tell you I'm extremely fair, almost to a fault. Um, I agree. So, uh, it's almost too, if you do know me, then you're like, you're going to know last last. Yeah. So you're going to find out through someone else. Um, but, uh.

[01:28:42] David Syvertsen: There's an art. Yeah. Definitely an art to that. What about legends programming?

Something that you just launched with a couple of others. I believe. I don't think it's just you. If I'm, am

[01:28:50] Joe Linton: I right about that? Yeah. There's two other coaches. So yeah. Legends programming is something that, um, has been an idea for, I mean, I've been working with SugarWad. to get it launched for like seven, eight months.

And, um, just through timing of work and this and getting certain stuff done and how it's going to look and talking to, um, DJ and Jeremy to be on the team and, uh, how we want to approach it. It just, uh, this was before the Castro involvement and it was built so that we could, I could teach them how to program.

To get people to peek at the Legends Championship. Got it. Um, and it's more specifically that. It's something that we don't expect to be huge. We don't expect to be, uh, a mayhem or a, um... Proven. Proven. We don't expect to do that. But, for people that want to get prepped for the competition... Mm hmm. You know, I was like, cool, I'm going to take this time to teach you guys how to program people for a competition.

Because they're excellent coaches. They have... Both over 10 years experience programming and coaching, but when they sent me stuff, I'm like, Hey, look, you need to build them up. You know, for instance, there was a kettlebell workout that Jeremy programmed. I believe it was supposed to be for today. And we haven't done any like dual kettlebell stuff.

So I was like, Hey, why don't you make an interval workout to give them some experience with the dual kettlebells so that next week They get more out of that workout. Got it. You know, you kind of prep some like, you know, unknown, unbowled, be prepared for anything. But in training, I mean, be prepared for anything is a thing, but in training you can help people get better faster if you program efficiently.

So legends programming is something that, um, you know, I have a heavy hand in right now. But they are slowly taking over. I was about to

[01:30:31] Sam Rhee: say, there's no conflict of interest, because, you know, you might be like, there might be dual kettlebells next year in the game, so just, Jeremy, throw a couple of those in for the next couple months, just so, you know, people are kind of a little, you know, because they do that with the game side, uh, main side programming.

Sometimes they throw some stuff in there. So you don't feel like, because then the athletes might be like, you know what? I got to just take a look at the master, the legends masters programming, because I don't know, there might be some stuff in there that I might have to sort of look at to be

[01:31:02] Joe Linton: prepped.

And so that's why I'd like during this time, it was more, it's me kind of guiding them, helping them get better, refining what they're doing. And eventually I'm going to have to step back away from it. Okay. Right. Because, um, I want a very clear look that is, you know, that it was, it was. to build a business so that these guys can show how good they are and to help them.

Um, cause they are excellent at what they do and they have a tremendous amount of commitment. And much like people have helped me get to where I am. Um, I was like, cool, let's do this. And it was actually my idea. I sought them out. Um, and they had jumped all over it. I was like, cool, let's do this. And now it's like, they're chomping on the bed all the time.

And, um, Yeah, it's cool. It's, uh, and I think it'd be, it'd be nice for people that especially the Legends Championship, though, for December, um, they have a track that's dedicated to help them peak in December. Um, they'll never have any say in any programming that you see at a championship or at the games.

Um, but, you know, they will be helping people do their best, you know, and I think that when you do that, people that are, um, well prepared, they have more fun. They get hurt less. That's true. And, um, as long as... If I don't have any involvement, then um, you know, there won't be a conflict.

[01:32:16] David Syvertsen: Yeah, definitely no conflict.

Proven was a sponsor of the games last year, if I remember correctly. And again, at no point, I know some people always have something negative to say about everything and they say, Oh, well, those athletes are going to have an inside track at programming. I think you have to trust Joe at this point. He's not going to look at Legends programming, which still isn't fully programmed yet, according to him.

He's not going to, he's not going to specifically only prepare on a micro level. Masters athletes that are on Legends programming more than anyone else. But the macro level of peaking at the right time, introducing certain movements slowly, that's what is needed. I think that's the advantage of going in to a program like that.

So. I hope nobody actually thinks that someone that's on Legends programming has an unfair competitive advantage at this year's championships. I have one question left, Sam. If you have one left too, then we can wrap this up because we've got to go warm up for our workout. No, I'm

[01:33:07] Sam Rhee: good. I would love to pick Joe's brain more about programming, but that will have to wait for the future.

Yeah, let's do

[01:33:14] Joe Linton: it.

[01:33:15] David Syvertsen: Now, what is, can you give me, what is your primary goal for your first crack at running the games for Masters? With the future in mind, like what do you really want to get down pat in year one, so that as you prepare for year two, you could probably even make the argument. Year two is gonna be more important than year one.

You kind of get like that grace period, hey, mm-hmm , let's see what you guys got and what can you improve? Because there will be mis mistakes made. There are every year, right? Things that you try to improve. What is like this the the number one primary goal that you're gonna try to have for the 2024 CrossFit games masters

[01:33:50] Joe Linton: athlete experience from check-in all the way to exit.

And being just a very well run show, like it is at Legends every year, but I want it to be even more. I want it to, uh... I want it to flow really well. I want experiences happening in between heats off to the side for, because athlete experience also goes into like, is your family having fun? So I want to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to do something fun and be a part of something.

And that could be if Vendor Village is providing these fun engagement, uh, these funds and types of things. And, you know, for next year, I'm looking into like, Hey, I know a lot of kids are going to come to this master's game. So let's rent a little arcade to set up in a room for kids. It's like highlighting.

All those experience outside the competition floor, I think is something that is going to help us immensely. Um, everything on the competition floor, we've proven that, um, we do really well at, you know, like you said, we're our programming normally top notch and, um, it will continue to get better, but, um, it's at taking advantage or, you know, maximizing everything off the competition floor.

And that's from athlete check in, like how. The games does the athlete experience in check in. That's a big deal. That is super cool So it's all of that stuff and then having the media team to showcase that to show it to the world is what again is going to Help this grow and be more popular so I

[01:35:15] Sam Rhee: assume that the goal of finding the fittest masters athlete in each division is a Given and you're talking about what comes next

[01:35:27] Joe Linton: Right.

Yeah, we're going to, we're always going to push that. That's always.

[01:35:31] Sam Rhee: Cause I assume you've always, that's what the programming and what we've talked about is, is you will make sure you find the fittest masters

[01:35:39] David Syvertsen: athlete.

[01:35:40] Joe Linton: Yeah. And we push them hard. And like, we've got a lot of feedback that these are the toughest workouts combination, but you know, four days, it's a lot.

And, um, again, it's maybe the workouts aren't necessarily. Crazy, crazy hard, but you provide it in a way where people can push themselves so hard and it's like, yeah, you know, it's like, And just the way it's set up. It's so it's, um, you know, we'll always do that. And it's more than just, you know, it's an intelligence test as well.

It's, you know, the baiting, it's not just the programming is for, you know, fitness. It's like, or do you have experience? Um, And you can't just walk into Legends, which is why, like, in a couple weeks we're gonna be releasing some videos of, um, guys that have been to Legends multiple times and what advice they give to all these new Legends.

Because a four day comp is no joke. And the last thing we want is people bowing out and, you know, having to withdraw. Um, that's why if you look at workouts like day by day, it doesn't seem that bad. Like, oh, Friday's not bad. Yep. Saturday's not bad. But it's like, damn, you know, four days in a row, it's like, you know, it catches up with you.

So, um, you know, next year, maximizing everything off the competition floor, finding the fittest person obviously is always the goal. And I want to make sure that it's also a fight. You know, uh, to program so that maybe people in a couple workouts, maybe they're not super efficient, but if you work hard enough, you can still be in the top three, top five, you know, programming that as well, rather than, um, you know, giving these highly experienced people that I don't want to say the advantage, but programming in a way that it's always the same people on the top.

I think if you program in a way that you can kind of give an underdog a chance. You'll see more of those stories, which again is another one of my biggest things Biggest things about next year is that now we have a bigger field The top ten Has to be earned and I think that's gonna be another a feather in people's cap Yeah, it's to say you were the top ten at a live competition.

Yeah, not virtual. Absolutely. That's

[01:37:47] David Syvertsen: confirmed. That's huge Hey, Joe, thanks so much for coming out. Really do appreciate it. Words don't really have enough weight for, to show my gratitude towards, but we'll just keep supporting you guys through our actions here at Bison. You have my word on that and to all masters out there, I want you, any true leader.

They, they do what they say they want you to do. You know, they, they don't just bark orders. Joe flying across the country here and coming here and showing Bison gratitude and also support on his end. That's what we need you guys to do to make sure this thing actually is successful and continues to operate.

For the next decade plus, we need you to put your money where your mouth is. We need you to show up. We need you to watch. We need you to listen. We need you to engage in social media with anything and everything around the sport, whether you compete or not, whether you even know people that compete or not.

There's a lot of people out there that need your support and for this to work. You guys have to do your part and I hope everyone can take that on as a responsibility. You are going to be a master's athlete at some point as well, and you're going to want and need the support at some point as well. So I hope you guys can take that as a serious responsibility.

Joe, would you like to throw any bones in terms of, to an athlete, anything you want to break? Will there be a repeat workout this year? Will there be anything new or are you just going to say, Hey, shut up and we'll see you

[01:39:11] Joe Linton: in December? Well, I told Rob there'll be a repeat workout and he got excited, but I didn't say what year.

I didn't say what year, if it was even our workout, so,

[01:39:19] David Syvertsen: um, something that has been done before

[01:39:21] Joe Linton: at some point before at a high level will be repeated. All right. So we'll go look at

[01:39:25] David Syvertsen: those 800 workouts and hopefully pick the right one. All right. Thanks Joe so much. And um, let's go work

[01:39:32] Joe Linton: out. All right. Let's do it.

Thank you guys.