S05E151 - Saluting the Fallen: Fitness and Resilience with Dave's Brother Mike

As the grueling Murph challenge of Hero Week is upon us, Dave's brother, Mike, joins us to share invaluable insights from his 20 years in the Army. This isn't just about physical strength; it's a profound journey through the sacrifices and mental resilience crafted in the crucible of military training and the camaraderie of CrossFit. Mike's narrative weaves together the ethos of these two worlds, shedding light on how they foster not only a robust physique but also fortify the mind and spirit against life's battles.

Our conversation honors those who've laid down their lives, as we delve into the compelling stories behind CrossFit's hero workouts. Mike's firsthand accounts from the front lines, including rigorous experiences from West Point to the personnel who are highly specialized, underscore the importance of a comprehensive fitness approach. These tales are more than mere anecdotes; they exemplify the vital role that physical training plays in military readiness and the everyday challenges we all face. It's an intimate reflection on leadership and the importance of setting an example from the top down.

We wrap up this heartfelt discussion with a focus on the critical issue of mental and emotional wellness within the military, with Mike opening up about the proactive steps taken by the military to support soldiers' mental health. He also shares personal practices for maintaining mental clarity amidst the high-stress environment of military service. As we pay homage to the bravery exhibited in Afghanistan's Kunar province, we invite you to carry forth the legacy of our heroes, honoring their stories and the indelible marks they leave on the world.

"PK"

5 rounds for time of:

225-lb. back squats, 10 reps

275-lb. deadlifts, 10 reps

400-meter sprint

Rest 2 minutes

Dedicated to U.S. Army Capt. Andrew Pedersen-Keel, of South Miami, Florida, died March 11, 2013. The 28-year-old was assigned to 1st Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group (Airborne), in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Pedersen-Keel was fatally injured in Jalrez District, Afghanistan, from small-arms fire from an Afghan security-forces member. This "PK" Hero WOD was originally posted on the CrossFit Main Site as the workout of the day for Friday, July 3, 2015.

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S05E151 - Saluting the Fallen: Fitness and Resilience with Dave's Brother Mike

TRANSCRIPT

Speakers

David Syvertsen

Host

00:05

Hey everybody, welcome to the Herd Fit Podcast with Dr Sam Rhee and myself, coach David Syverson. This podcast is aimed at helping anyone and everyone looking to enhance their healthy lifestyle through fitness, nutrition and, most importantly, mindset. All right, welcome back to the Herd Fit Podcast. I'm Coach David Sargesson. I'm here with my co-host, dr and Coach Sam Rhee, and in between us we have a very special guest who flew in or drove up from the south to hop in on the Herd Fit Podcast. No, no, really, this is actually a very special guest a first time in Herd Fit Podcast history that I have a brother that's on, and this is my one of my three brothers, one of my two older brothers, mike, who is currently serving in the army, and we are a day before Murph. We just we are at the tail end of Hero Week here at CrossFit Bison, where we do a week full of hero workouts and we cap it off with Murph, and this is actually he's here, not for the Herd Fit podcast.

01:05

We are celebrating our father's 70th birthday, so our whole family kind of came to Pennsylvania yesterday. We're all hanging out in New Jersey today and I selfishly asked him to take away from family time to come on and speak with us from a military background and I am going to do my best to kind of remove, you know, personal relationship from this and I really kind of want to ask Mike questions and listen to him talk about leadership and mental training and physical training and just other you know angles to CrossFit and military and the connection that it has. You know, that's one thing we do as coaches here, sam, is we have to separate our personal relationships from our job a lot and it's easier sometimes than others. But on this podcast that's really why Mike's coming on. It's really to kind of just help educate, teach and reflect on some of the experiences that he has of things that A, he's allowed to talk to and B you know, I know Mike, if you know anything about him, he does not.

02:08

He probably personifies humility more than any person I've ever met to the point where he hates talking about himself. He hates talking about everything that he's accomplished in life. But I will say he was really hard to follow in the brother order because he is just enormously successful and it all comes from hard work and grit and I think a lot of what I've learned about those two areas if I had to pick one person in my life that has taught me the most about those, it's Mike, and I've learned so much from him. A lot of who I am comes from from his, his leadership and also just the example that he's shown. So, mike, thanks so much for coming on, and I would just like to maybe just introduce you with your age, your rank and how long you've been in the Army, and why did that all start?

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

02:58

Thanks, dave, for that introduction. So first off, I think you're right by saying that I'm not a big fan of talking about myself. Most people in the military community and the special operations community are not big fans of doing these things. But it is Memorial Day weekend and I know some of the stuff you want to talk about is those that have gone before us and have made the ultimate sacrifice. So I was kind of reflecting on it. You know, driving in this morning I thought of it as a great opportunity to honor those folks and their legacy and probably share some personal stories on them and maybe give some of your guys and girls that are doing this Murph workout tomorrow a little bit of extra motivation. So that's kind of what's on my mind this morning. But so, and before I get into like intro stuff, I also just want to say it's been awesome to see what you guys have done.

03:47

One with this podcast has been really cool. I like to listen to it sometimes when I'm going to work. It kind of makes me feel closer to you as a brother because I get to kind of hear about things I maybe wouldn't normally hear about, just kind of hearing your voice and hearing you talk through stuff and laugh about stuff with guests. It's been really fun for me. No-transcript. The US taxpayer has been paying my salary for the last 20 years. You know, from the day I graduated from West Point, I haven't had to worry about like, how am I, how is my paycheck coming in next week? So it's really humbling and awesome to watch what you've done and I've learned a lot from just seeing you navigate this process and super proud of you, um, and also thanks for the lifetime free gym membership.

04:47

Um, that's been great. Uh, both me and my wife had an opportunity to work out here a couple of times when we were living in New York, and uh, but no, it's just awesome to walk in here and see this place. So, um, but uh. So, as far as like military background, it's funny yesterday I was, I was looking at some social media feed and the West Point class of 2024 just graduated yesterday. Yeah, so I was West Point class of 2004. Wow, which was literally 20 years ago 20 years ago, almost exactly to the day that I graduated. So that's my background.

05:20

I've been an army officer for 20 years, obviously, grew up here in Millen Park. At high school, I spent the first three years in the army and the infantry, so I was an infantry platoon leader and then I tried out for special forces in June of 2008. And I've been in the special operations community ever since. I'm currently a lieutenant colonel serving down in a unit in Fort Liberty, north Carolina, and I live there with my wife, Marlena, and my two daughters, grace and Emma, who are five and three. So that's pretty much me in a nutshell, nice.

David Syvertsen

Host

05:52

Now this is. I guess I could spoil this now because this will come out tomorrow, but Mike is our guest speaker tomorrow for Murph and it's basically at the end of Murph For those that are still here, because I know some people come in at seven. They have plans and they got to go, but we usually have a crowd of anywhere from 50 to 70 people left over by the time 1030 rolls around. We hang out for a little bit. We've had a few guest speakers over the years and nothing, nothing crazy. Five minutes of just kind of reminding what Murph's all about, what Hero Week's all about, what Memorial Day is all about it's not a day off from work, all right.

06:25

And last time Mike was here in this regard, right, he actually was one of the first people to tell the Murph story from a military perspective. It always has a different feel than watching Lone Survivor or reading a paragraph about it. Just to hear him tell the story of Murph was special. But he also came back and we did a workout called PK back in 2015, I believe it was, and he gave the story of PK and just to kind of set the tone for kind of where Mike is and some of the purpose behind Hero Week Murph macro level. Mike, I'd like to just maybe give you the story of whatever you're comfortable talking about in regard to PK personal story, I know. But again I want to kind of just set the tone for you know the seriousness level of the podcast and what Hero Week is all about.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

07:18

Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to talk about PK. So PK, his name is Andrew Peterson Keel. The first time I met him was at West Point. We were cadets. He was a couple of years behind me and if anyone knows anything about West Point, the first year there is absolute misery, I think. Maybe the first two years were kind of like that. I started kind of enjoying it towards the end. But PK was one of those. He was a freshman in my company and my memory of him was he always had a smile on his face and always had this kind of mischievous look about him and he just you could just tell he was always having a good time despite the adversity that he was experiencing. He was signing into my battalion in 3rd Special Forces Group in 2012.

08:05

We were getting ready to deploy to Afghanistan for a six-month deployment. It was a pretty busy time in Afghanistan for those that kind of remember what was happening. President Obama had ordered a surge of troops and increased the number of forces, attempting to essentially pressure the Taliban to the negotiation table Essentially pressure the Taliban to the negotiation table. So it was a busy time, bottom line for that part of the country in eastern Afghanistan where we were, and it was a very violent time. On that't part of our train up he showed up and deployed and he was going to be on staff. So he was just working in kind of a staff role in our operations center. But what happened in November was another good friend of mine was struck by an IED. His vehicle struck an IED and he lost his leg. He was the detachment commander for a special forces team there in Eastern Afghanistan. So what happens when something like that happens is we have to find a replacement to take that team.

09:10

In this case it was PK, and so I remember having conversations with him. I had been done with my team time. I was in a headquarters role, so he and I were both there in Bagram Airfield talking and we used to go for runs around the airfield together. That was kind of our thing on Sundays. We would break away from the grind and we'd go for this long six mile run in the hot sun of Afghanistan, and his joke was he always used to he said God damn you, fat Irish thighs. So he had a great sense of humor. We would have conversations about his longtime girlfriend and his desire to get married.

09:46

After getting back A little while later he, you know, he knew I was looking for a place to live and so we decided we were going to be roommates and so we had the house. He had a house in Southern Pines, north Carolina. I was going to move in. I was really excited about that. So I had become close to PK.

10:01

Over time we were going to live together and, you know, then we found out that he was going to go out and take over this team in this really volatile area of Eastern Afghanistan. So I remember sitting down and talking to him and he was a little bit nervous, but he wasn't nervous about the threat, he was nervous about following this legendary captain that had just been wounded and he was like, am I going to live up to him? Am I going to, you know, let the team down? And he just wanted that was the number one thought on his mind is just making sure he was a good leader for his team and led the team well. And he really did. He did an outstanding job. He won the trust of his team very quickly through some pretty dire circumstances. To visit him in January, I brought him some supplies around Christmas time. I brought him like a Santa hat, just as like a joke, freezing cold in the snow out there of January in Eastern Afghanistan.

10:50

But a couple of months went by and then it was March 11th 2013. We got a radio call that there had been an attack and you can actually this story has been recounted in a number of different ways there's a guy named Nick Lavery who is I said you some stuff on him, but he's just an absolute legend in the special forces community because he lost his leg and then got back to training as, I think, the first Green Beret to lose a leg and return to his detachment and deploy again to combat, and he had to demonstrate that he could do all the things he needed to do to meet that physical standard, to demonstrate that he could do all the things he needed to do to meet that physical standard. And his mother, helen, has actually told this story as well and you can read about it on her website. But the bottom line is there was an insider attack. So a Taliban sympathizer was wearing the uniform of an Afghan national policeman, opened fire on PK and his entire team right before they were getting ready to step outside the wire for patrol and PK was the first one hit and another soldier attached to his team were killed. So two individuals were killed immediately and several were wounded.

11:57

And so I was, you know, in the operations center in Bagram, came in, heard about the attack and, you know, quietly, just kind of went down to look at the names and see, you know, if I, if I recognize any of the names, and I saw PK's name, that he had been killed, um, so obviously it just destroyed me and all of us that knew PK and loved him.

12:16

Um, so since that time, um, if you get a chance to look up APK charities, his mother, since that time, if you get a chance to look up APK Charities, his mother, helen, and her husband have started this nonprofit. We've been up to their event in Connecticut a few times. It's a 5K, either run or ruck, and she just does a ton for advocacy in the veteran community for Gold Star families. So his legacy is lived on really through those that knew him and through his parents. So that's a quick summary of PK. I tell you, when Memorial Day comes around every year, he's the number one name on my mind. He's the number one picture I think about when I'm reflecting back. We've lost a lot of friends, a lot of colleagues over the years, but PK's loss was the one that hit me the most.

David Syvertsen

Host

13:06

Thanks. Now just the. You know Sam and I Sam actually just did Murph this morning because he's traveling so he won't be here tomorrow and I'll be taking it on tomorrow. And you know, over the years I've tried different ways and I know others have as well to. You know, kind of think beyond the workout, think beyond the community being here and doing it together.

13:27

Like I'm very kind of antisocial during Murph, like I kind of just stay in my zone.

13:31

I one year when you, while you were deployed, mike, I had a picture of you next to me while I was doing it with the vest and it's like can we find different ways to dedicate effort, dedicate thoughts or just remember?

13:41

And like when you hear a real story like that, like a personal story, sam, it does kind of give you a different I don't want to say vibe, but a different mindset while doing Murph or just hero workouts in general. And we try our best as coaches at the whiteboard to make sure that we're all on the same page, that these workouts, as hard and as grueling as they are, the hero workouts are usually on purpose, a little bit more tougher than what we normally do to kind of keep the mind right. And I think our gym, our community, does a great job of that. You hear very few people complain about hard push-ups when you know in about an hour you're going to be at home eating some lunch, right. But what can we do, sam, as coaches, as as coaches, as as people working out, to kind of just remember you know what Mike just talked about, how personal some of this stuff is. And these are, these are real life human beings that we're doing these workouts after.

Sam Rhee

Co-host

14:34

It's uh, it is almost mythical. I mean, I do listen to a lot of um podcasts of um former military personnel like Jocko Willink, of former military personnel like Jocko Willink. Dave Castro is a former SEAL and I hear a lot about and we also do a lot of hero workouts. So I read about a lot of people who have died in the line of service, and it's almost unreal to me in a lot of ways, because I've never. The person I might know the most was Katie Miller's brother, and when she spoke about it that was very personal when we did his hero workout. But to listen to Mike talk about it, it brings another aspect of reality that I've never really experienced with any of these workouts.

15:23

I've seen movies like Lone Survivor. I've, you know, watched a lot of this, and so it's unfathomable to sort of think about someone who is willing to sacrifice their life and willingly do so for our country. It just takes another mindset in order to be able to even think about that. So then, when I think about all the people around them and the loss that they've suffered friends, family that's where the grief is. If anyone were to die, it's really the friends and family that suffer the most from something like that, and so when you think about Piquet's mother, when you think about her friends, so Murph is mythologized, All of these heroes are truly heroes. But then the saddest part is really everyone left afterwards, and that's the part where I don't even know how someone can deal with that sort of thing, and I don't know how you deal with it, or anyone does.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

16:32

Yeah, I was actually just reading a post a friend of mine put out. He said a soldier who's killed in combat potentially dies twice. He dies the day he's killed and then he dies again when people forget about him. And so that's for most of us in the military. We spend a lot of effort and time just keeping the legacy of our fallen alive, and it's not just to be sad, you know, and to bring everybody down. It's motivation to live up to what they taught us, and we think about what they would have been doing if they were here. And you think about when you wake up every morning and try to pursue excellence. Am I making the most of this day? Am I living up to what PK would have expected me to be doing? What would PK have been doing right now? I feel like he'd be at the same level or outpacing me, right. So yeah, I think that's the main takeaway is how do I live my life every day to honor them and to rise to the occasions that life throws at me?

David Syvertsen

Host

17:35

Now, mike, some of this like this, the hard work and the discipline, and, you know, waking up every morning and pursuing excellence Can I want to kind of turn shift this a little bit right now towards the fitness component and knowing that everything that you do have to physically stay on top of your body, your health, so that you can physically perform when you need to. A big part of what we teach within CrossFit on a much less serious scale, but it's what I always call same church, different pew is always being ready for life's challenges. Now, your life's challenges in the Army, especially when you're deployed, are a little bit different than us out here in civilian life. But you know, one of my earliest memories of you working out were other than running and playing sports growing up is the physical test that you had to take at Midland Park High School as part of the application process to West Point. Right, I just watched Sam's daughter, who actually goes to Duke, north Carolina, yep, and you know her application process. I mean, getting into that school is very challenging. It's very competitive. You have to have a lot going on sports, extracurriculars, an essay and all that.

18:57

Part of your application process was a physical test as well, and that was one of the first times I've actually seen you train for something. I don't know why I was there, but I was in seventh grade watching, and it was our gym teacher, slash my baseball coach in high school. It was the first time I've ever seen him scream. You're doing max pull-ups and push-ups and throwing a basketball from your knees across the basketball court Like everything was measured running. Can you start to touch on because I'm big on you know you pursuing excellence in your life is definitely a part of how you have pursued physical fitness and that's where a lot of people from bison can relate to you. Um, can you, can you kind of just give us kind of like your start story on fitness training?

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

19:37

you know some of those things and how they relate to your pursuits pursuit of excellence yeah, I, I, we were kind of talking about this earlier yeah, um, when I look back at fitness for our family, we were sport, we were a sports family. Everything was sports basketball, baseball, football, whatever. Um, I don't think we ever really thought about fitness as an end into itself, at least growing up, yep, um, and I know I didn't I could say, um, I didn't consider myself a very strong kid growing up. I have this memory, um, I have this memory of elementary school in long Island. We all sit in rows and columns and a teacher would call us up name by name and do as many pull-ups as you could, and I remember there was this girl that was a gymnast and she cranked out like 15. This is like fifth grade. I knew I couldn't do a single pull-up. I knew I couldn't and then they'd call my name and I would just like do the walk of shame up to the pull-up bar for the entire class and fail to do a pull-up and I think like maybe my elbow bent like 7% and I went back and sat down, but I was generally okay with that because I like playing sports and I was like, well, I can't do pull-ups, does that matter? Is that going to matter down the road. When I get older I'll probably figure it out right, but my first history of fitness was dad asking me to go for a run with him and we had fitness.

20:48

Was dad asking me to go for a run with him? And I don't know if I asked him or whatever it was, but my dad was, our dad was was running like a 5k in here in ridgewood, new jersey, which they actually do the memorial day 5k tomorrow. Our sister-in-law is doing it, yep um. And so he brought me out for a run. I think I made it like a mile and I died and I was like I can't do this. And then he brought me out again. I made it like a mile and a half and then eventually I could do the three mile run and it was a big confidence thing. And then I started to enjoy it and I think for me I just enjoyed running in general, uh, and I continued that through high school and that's kind of what made it possible for me to think I might be able to like succeed in the military. And then it was summer camp at Deerfoot Lodge, hiking with a pack up mountains. Those were the first hard things I did, but it was all just like I enjoyed being outdoors. It was fitness was just things that allowed me to do things I liked.

21:37

And so, when it came to the West Point thing, I knew that this physical fitness test was going to be a requirement to get in, and that's what drove my desire to get into the gym. You know, I was never really spending a lot of time in the gym before that. So then I was like, okay, how do I do pushups, how do I do pull-ups, how do I do sit-ups, what have you? And so everything, everything revolved around helping me meet a goal which, at that time, was attending West Point.

21:59

Do you remember what the physical test was? Yeah, it was. I remember parts of it. They was describing it. I think there was a shuttle run there. I had to, I had to, I had to be on my knees in the gym and throw a basketball as far as I could, which I was like I don't know what this has to do, maybe throw on a grenade, I don't know. Um, and then pull-ups, which was like my biggest challenge, and mr tracy was like training me and like encouraging me through it the whole time. Um, I think push-ups were one of the events. Uh, frankly, I don't know was there a distance run?

David Syvertsen

Host

22:28

was there a mile run? I thought there was, but that could be. That could be another one. You've had so many physical tests over the years.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

22:34

Yeah, that might have been a different one and I'll just say, like I would say for my entire career, it was a goal I wanted to achieve and that's what drove my desire to work out. So I wanted to try for special forces selection. I knew it would do move far distance with a ruck. I wanted to succeed at ranger school. I knew they're really strict on pushups and then moving with weight for long periods of time. So I always drove like, hey, I wanted to be successful, I wanted to be able to lead my soldiers well when I got to whatever job I was doing and I wanted to be able to set the example. And that drove my desire to be fit.

23:05

And now it's a little bit different because I'm a little bit older. Now I work out I feel like a lot more for just like mental clarity and also it's still that leadership example aspect. I have people in my organization that are training to go to combat. I can still go to combat with them, but maybe in a different capacity. So it's really more of a leadership and setting the example focus for me at this point what is your fitness regimen like now as a senior?

23:32

person. Yeah, so you know, the old Army physical fitness test used to be two minutes of push-ups, two minutes of sit-ups and then run two miles. And I, you know, my regimen coming up was just run, lift. I'd maybe run every morning. That was a standard Army. You woke up at 6, you went to formation and everybody went for like a three, five mile run, maybe some calisthenics, and then I'd sneak into the gym four or five in the afternoon and lift. That was how I did things up until 2009. And that's when, kind of I started learning a little bit about CrossFit and I was interested in it. I don't think you were, I wasn't no, not until 2011.

Sam Rhee

Co-host

24:08

Oh, so you heard of it before, dave did.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

24:10

Well, specifically, we had a dive team that did this thing called SealFit, which I think you're all still familiar with because he competes. And so I started doing SealFit. And then, once I started doing that, I realized that I could offload the requirement to come up with a workout plan because someone smarter than me had already come up with one and they updated it every day. And I could go to a website. I could go to sealfitcom and I could do whatever workout they threw out there and I knew it was going to challenge me, I knew it was going to destroy me and I knew it was going to make me a better special operations soldier. And so that's how I started working out and I continued that for several years, how I started working out, and I continued that for several years. Those are super high volume workouts, um, and at that point in my life I was late twenties I could. I could manage it and operate at a really high level. And then I kind of started after a while.

25:03

The special forces regiment and special operations command as a whole right around that same time started hiring human performance coaches and really prioritizing that, and they would do programming for all the special forces teams, and so you could go to an actual strength coach and just ask him hey, here are the goals I'm trying to work towards, and sometimes entire teams will go together and get a workout plan as a team and they would program it for me. And so, basically from 2010 on, I've just been doing whatever a coach tells me to do, because I give them general guidelines of what I want to do. But it's similar to CrossFit, but it's functional fitness, you could call it, and I've basically just been following that. So a workout might be like supersets of deadlifts and pull-ups followed by squats. What have you? Lots of deadlifts, olympus-style weightlifting, with kind of high-volume circuits worked into it, and then some sort of cardio intermixed throughout the week. Sounds like what we do.

David Syvertsen

Host

26:04

I was about to say it sounds very similar. Yeah, you guys don't get into this skill stuff as much, though, because it's not as applicable to you, like ring muscle-ups and handstand walks and you know that kind of stuff, because it's just you're really training for, we're training for CrossFit performance here, some health right, probably a mix. You guys are like hey, there's no point in me getting on a pair of rings and doing muscle-ups, because it's not really doesn't really apply much to what you guys do.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

26:29

Yeah, I mean, and especially when they're programming for a team, you're trying to bring an entire team of, say, 12 guys up to a level. So if it's a super tactical movement that not everybody on the team can do, it's not really going to benefit. Got it and and and. Actually there's a huge culture of CrossFitters in the army and in special operations, in particular, guys that run their own gyms, that coach at gyms that that do that on the side. So I think the mentality is there. Um, but the way we program it's got to be applicable to the, I hate to say, lowest common denominator, but it has to be applicable to everybody that may be less, you know, adept at some of the technical.

David Syvertsen

Host

27:05

I guess that absolutely get that. Yeah, now you know the the challenges of. You know the different fitness levels. There are some freaks in the Army Like you have sent me pictures and videos of guys doing hero workouts on deployments. Like that was a really cool picture that I shared actually with our community last year of the whole your whole group doing MRF out there.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

27:24

The man maker workout I shared with you, oh yeah.

David Syvertsen

Host

27:28

That I got annihilated on. That I got annihilated on. You know, I think that's a really cool common ground that A I have with my brother, you know, because we don't live near each other, we don't get to talk every day or every week even, but that you know, we could talk fitness and workouts all the time and we'd like to kind of challenge each other in that regard and anything running-wise. He'll always smoke me in.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

27:49

It's about the only thing.

David Syvertsen

Host

27:51

It really is the only thing. Well, I think your trap bar deadlift is heavier than mine. I think you pushed over five on that right, didn't you?

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

27:59

We were talking years ago. Yeah, but still Maybe 10 years ago.

David Syvertsen

Host

28:03

But it's those long levers that you have.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

28:07

So I think that— he's got an excuse for it. That's why you beat me Abnormally, disproportionately long arms.

David Syvertsen

Host

28:18

Some of the parallels between retraining, leadership, pushing the needle, you know, like one thing that you like, that you said earlier that that I love about you, that, um, I also try to kind of show is that leading through example. Right like you know, there are some guys in your groups that are, you know, fitter than you, you know faster than you, stronger than you, more flexible than you, especially um little digs. But can you kind of touch on how much physical struggle and how are you guys working out, even though you're on different levels, just like a CrossFit gym, just like a CrossFit class, how that kind of brings you together and can actually produce leadership in some people, even beyond yourself? Can you touch on that a little bit? Yeah?

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

29:06

100%. It yeah, 100 I mean. So physical fitness is there's a reason why the army makes people pass a certain minimum standard, but physical fitness is the, it's the baseline of everything we do. I mean, if, if you look at the mission of the army, it's close with and destroy the enemy, well, you can't close with them if you can't move, you can't destroy them if you're not strong. And not to get super like violent on your podcast today but like that is, the mission of the army is to close with and destroy the enemy.

29:31

So there's a warrior mentality to everything we do and it starts with physical fitness and there's a lot more to it and the army in particular has starting to get their minds wrapped around the whole person and kind of like holistic fitness psychological, spiritual, cognitive. But it does start with physical fitness and you have to know your limits, as some people I knew. You have to go see the wizard every now and then to remind yourself that you can push to certain levels. But also you need to know your fellow teammates and their limits and you have to know that they can do things with you that are hard in a controlled environment, so that when you find yourself overseas, you know you have trust in your teammates to your left and your right. I know they can climb this mountain with me. I know this guy can pick me up and carry me off the battlefield if I'm shot, and those are realistic things that happen on a regular basis on combat rotations.

30:31

So one of the things I was going to kind of share with you so I won't share names or anything, but I know we're going to talk about Murph and I'll probably just share a little bit of the Murph story. But what a lot of people don't know is there was a team that went in to rescue Marcus Latrell, and I know those guys and I've served with them and and one of them is more of a senior ranking guy now and I had him come share the story with a lot of with the guys in my unit and what he learned from it and his number one of his number one lessons was the importance of physical training, not just for yourself but with your team, because when the time came they had to climb some gnarly mountains and, frankly, some guys just weren't ready.

David Syvertsen

Host

31:09

Right.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

31:10

Because it was. I mean, the mountains in Afghanistan are the great equalizer and they've destroyed me on multiple occasions, and so he used that as a charge to the folks in my formation to hey, push yourselves regularly, work out together, experience adversity together, so that you know each other's limits. And it puts a little bit of like I call it friendly competition or pressure on your fellow teammates to all get on the same level.

Sam Rhee

Co-host

31:34

Latrell was one of the team members that survived that.

David Syvertsen

Host

31:37

Yeah, yeah, we're going to touch on the Murph story in a little bit. Yeah, that's.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

31:43

And the other thing I'd say, dave real quick, sorry I just interrupted you no, keep going. The no, keep going. The other aspect is, if you're not physically fit, it affects everything else. It affects your cognitive ability to process things under pressure. So not only do you have to be fit, but you have to be able to think in those circumstances.

32:03

And so a lot of times if you're the guy that's falling out first, you're the guy that's providing the least to the team through the problem solving and keeping your head in the game, probably feeling like you need to fall asleep, things like that. Right, some of the most miserable training I've been through, like ranger school for example those stories are out of this world. As a lieutenant, one of my first things I did and then I went right to Iraq from there and I can remember thinking multiple times in Iraq that I was like I'm just glad I'm not in ranger school because that experience was so miserable. I was like at least I have food here, yeah, and that's the point is to push yourself so that you can handle the challenges that are thrown at you, and physical fitness is the baseline of all of that. It's not the only thing, but it's the. If you don't have it, everything else is going to suffer in your military career.

David Syvertsen

Host

32:49

I mean, I'm trying to find parallels so many to what we do on a lesser scale right here, across what we teach and the people that are listening to this. Across there is what can I take from Mike's experience and related to and you know, you're making practice harder than the game in some ways right Like making your training harder than your competition, and that's why you do have to keep your foot on the gas, you do. There are so many reasons why you shouldn't let up, right? We're not telling people to push through sickness and injury. We know that.

33:16

You know this isn't life or death training, but I do think a lot of times us, as CrossFitters myself included you do question your motivation, sometimes Like I don't want to. Why? Because I don't feel like it. Well, that's not a good enough reason to, and we could sound like hard ass is all we want and say stuff like that. But it is the truth that there is a reason so much bigger than how you feel right now why you should continue to kind of stay on the train, stay on the path. Do you kind of die with that at all, Sam? Is it something that you think that we can apply to ourselves, to ourselves?

Sam Rhee

Co-host

33:47

Mental discipline is based on both physical discipline and, like you said, your brain, like you have to be able to have some degree of physical fitness in order to also be mentally fit, and it goes hand in hand. I think everything that the Army does is realizing a lot of these principles that we, as CrossFitters, also realize on a lower level in terms of what we want in terms of success in our lives, and I can only tell from my personal experience how important that is. I would say, when I was training as a resident, I was so physically unfit in so many ways and that really hurt me. And I think the fact that I think most people realize now that they go hand in hand performance, you know, mentally has to go with your physical performance, and I can't imagine being in a situation where I literally would have to carry a shot teammate to safety, like that's not something that I could ever fathom, but damn it. I would definitely want my teammate to be very physically fit. If I was in that situation. Yeah, yeah.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

34:57

I'll tell you a quick story. Nick, nick Lavery, the guy I referred to. He wrote a book called Objective Secure. He was a freakishly strong guy. You see him and you just like immediately want to walk the other direction. This is probably going to just kill you if you look at him the wrong way. Uh, but he, he had a story of um, our, our fellow friend, a captain, who was wounded and the truck was on its side. Um, off the side of the road on fire, and so he had to rip open this like armored door and then look down into the bottom where, with the truck on his side, our teammate is down at the bottom and he's got it with the guy's body, armor and everything. He had to reach down and pull him with one arm it's like a one-arm row of like 300 pounds plus probably and he found a way to get him out.

David Syvertsen

Host

35:43

It's adrenaline baby.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

35:44

That's an extreme example of it, but yeah, I mean that's absolutely.

David Syvertsen

Host

35:52

I even know, in life's worst situations, like we just asked tara, does your, does the goal of training or your mindset of why you train now shift after you have a kid and part of it's like I want to be around, I want to be healthy, but there are. I look at some people and I look at myself too. There are potentially some life-altering situations that you need to be ready for. We just had a member who took a nasty fall and she's laughing about it now, but it was a pretty bad fall walking down the stairs, slipped on something onto concrete floor and she said she was like at that moment, I was so thankful that I do this. I lift weights, I get strong because I took that and like I'm okay. I feel like if that was someone that had no muscle mass, no strength whatsoever, bones are breaking left and right. So, no, you don't have to save someone's life with a 300 pound one arm row in combat to feel like there's a purpose behind your training. The functional side of this stuff in training in general is massive and I think in some cases, especially if you have little ones like there, shouldn't be much more motivation needed than to stay on top of this stuff.

36:56

Now, touching on the mental game might be. This has come up a few times over the past. You know a few things that you've said mentally, holistic, emotional health and that's been a much bigger talking point, media, publicly and on my life as well, especially since COVID but I think it actually started before that just the mental health awareness. Some of the things that you've gone through right, the PK story, some of the other, you know combat stories that you've been through and I know you can't really touch on all those, but you know your response to that. You know, as someone that's known you, a long time has changed and you have been through that and you could share whatever you want to and not share whatever you want to. You know that. But how important is it for us to stay on top of our mental game and what can we do to stay on top of it and to kind of be able to take on life's challenges, both expected and unexpected?

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

37:55

Yeah, it's mental. I guess wellness mental, emotional, cognitive it's taken on a huge priority for the Army, more so than ever. And just to kind of put it in perspective, my West Point class of 2004,. We had 14 of my classmates killed, mostly in like the heavy periods of time where we were at troop level leadership, so 05, 06 in the surge in Iraq, and then we'll be kind of company captain level leadership at 2010, 2010. 11 timeframe. So I've lost 14 classmates to enemy action. Since that time I've lost six classmates to suicide.

38:34

So the challenges we face now are different and it's very apparent to all of us, even my West Point class. We now have regular check-ins. We have people that volunteer to call every single classmate. We had a goal of doing that over the past year. We do monthly. We call it grip hands where guys come in, guys and gals come in and talk on Zoom and just share stories of what different classmates are doing. So it's something we've all become very aware of.

39:00

So mental health is something the military has come to grips with. We pay a lot more attention to it. When we talk about taking care of people, we're not just talking about taking care of their physical training, being fit and ready to go to combat, or their tactical training. We're thinking about their mindset, and so SOCOM as a whole has done a lot. They've invested in psychologists, human performance, behavioral health therapists, sleep coaches, nutritionists, to kind of help people stay on their game. Even chaplains in the spiritual realm are big in the military.

39:40

So I'll tell you for me personally, I find a little bit of time in the morning every day. You mentioned having a kid. For me I have to wake up early because it's the only time I get alone. I've started kind of a meditation practice. A little bit of journaling, prayer and really just mental clarity is huge for me, kind of starting my day with you know, what am I going to accomplish today? What's my priority in keeping my purpose centered and honestly, my faith has been a huge part of it as well from our upbringing with our father that instilled that, our parents that instilled that in us and keeping God at the center of my life and staying centered has been huge for me.

Sam Rhee

Co-host

40:20

Can I ask you?

40:22

I can imagine, as a young man, wanting to serve my country and to challenge myself and go and do the things that you've done.

40:33

And I also see a lot of the media and most of them are people who are no longer active military, who serve for a certain amount of time, and we have many members at our gym who also serve for a certain period of time and then left for various reasons. And when I listen to, say, jocko Willink or some of these other people talk, you know some of it is also like burnout, like you go and you serve multiple tours and it's just the stuff you go through and how difficult it is and how challenging and scary is at some point, and so most people end up not staying as long as you have. The other thing is is that some people also realize they're no longer serving in a very active role. Like some people, they live to be in a unit and to be very active, but then you become senior and then you take on a different responsibility senior and then you take on a different responsibility.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

41:49

Why did you or how were you able to? Every day, you will withstand certain sacrifices and, honestly, I'm usually pretty uncomfortable with people saying like, thank you for your service. I've even heard people have apologized to me, like when I tell them what I do, like, oh, I'm sorry, you have to be in the army, and I'm just like you don't understand to be in the army and I'm just like you don't understand Um, I sometimes will jokingly say thank you for paying my salary, um, but I, I love, I've loved every moment I've spent in the army, um, mainly because of the people I've been able to meet, um, and the, the unified purpose that we've had serving together, um, and and there's, there's, there's a lot of there's a lot to that. So for me it hasn't been hard to stay in. If anything, the family consideration starts to weigh right. So I have two young girls now.

42:39

I've told my wife multiple times like, hey, at any point, this lifestyle isn't working for us, we'll move on. But until then we're going to continue to do this as long as it's fun and I'm enjoying it, which I do and it's just manageable for us and it's a family affair as well. My wife is involved in our family group. She helps support spouses while we're deployed, so she feels the meaning as well. My wife also served for nine years. We met in Afghanistan. She went to PK's funeral actually while I was deployed and we were dating. It was actually one of the first times she met mom and dad oh really, mom and dad were actually there for the funeral as well. So I think collectively we feel a lot of meaning and purpose and I think that's all people really need. There's a lot of things that motivate people Money motivates people, quality of life but I think if you step back and look what keeps people doing what they're doing, it's because they feel a meaningful purpose behind what they do.

Sam Rhee

Co-host

43:33

One more follow-up is. The other thing, I think, is that you need a different set of skill sets when you become more senior, and you probably have it that not everyone has in order to become a senior leader, and I see that in most jobs and professions as well, once you change from being more active to more senior. The other thing is but I think the responsibility also is greater. So I was just telling Dave before I could see serving and dying for my country. Potentially I could see saving someone else like my teammate and dying for them and saving their life, just like I could for my family. But then it's a different situation when you're a senior leadership and you are deciding this is worth it to send people to potentially die and you know that there are going to be deaths and you are going to have widows and orphan children and people that are dying, and so what kind of responsibility is that as a senior person to say this is worth it, that we're going to sacrifice these people potentially or actually in some capacity? That's a hard thing.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

44:38

That's a deep question, sal. Thank you, I appreciate that. No, but you're making a great point. I mean, when I wake up in the morning, what I'm thinking about is am I being the leader that this organization deserves? It's pressure, it's a good pressure, and you should be thinking about that. And you're right, the challenges are different. I'm responsible, for example, any team that's preparing to deploy overseas, observing their training, resourcing their training and making sure they're ready. So we don't send people unprepared. That is a huge responsibility. So we don't send people unprepared. That is a huge responsibility.

45:11

So you know you have to be authentic to yourself and you have to. You know, really. You know find a way to find that mental clarity and focus and making sure you're providing the correct purpose and direction to the organization and reflecting on it often and asking people to kind of kind of check you to see where you may be missing things, um, and just keeping a servant mentality. So it's a. It's a different type of um stress. I would argue it's. It's worse. Like I hate. I would much rather be the guy um driving down the road trying to avoid the, the roadside bomb, than the guy sitting in the ops center watching. You feel, honestly, you feel like my soldiers will hate me for saying this, but you feel like a worried parent when your folks are out there, because you really do love them like your family and you want to be right by them. The other thing you mentioned is my wife.

46:02

I've talked about this sometimes, about the longer you stay in your motivations, and I think you could argue that we've made mistakes as a nation and decisions we've made to put people in harm's way, maybe in situations where we should not have. And on the one hand, you can say, you know, I'm moving on, I'm done with this. On the other hand, you could say, hey, maybe I'll be in a position someday to help make the right decision, either at a micro level, like yes, we're going to approve this mission that these soldiers are going on, or advising a senior policymaker, like, hey, maybe this is not the correct way to apply us blood and treasure. Um, and that becomes more, that weighs on you more the longer you're in.

David Syvertsen

Host

46:42

Uh, so yeah, Thanks for that. That was good answer. That's a. I could listen to Mike talk about that kind of stuff all day again. It's it's not just the answer to the question, it's what can you learn from that and apply to to your own life and your own job, your own profession, your own responsibilities? Um, so I I kind of want to wrap this up towards talking about the murph story, and just from a military background. I mean, it's happened so long, there's so many documentaries and movies, but I always feel like it's a different feel when someone in Mike's position talks about the story, some things that we can kind of reflect on and think about both now and for the years to come. Can you give Mike kind of what you know, your version of the Murph story? You know you can go detailed or not, but just kind of like something that maybe you know from your perspective that we might not pick up on by watching a movie, and something that just a little kind of elements about the mission itself and what actually happened.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

47:45

Yeah, yeah, and I will certainly not claim to be an expert on the mission and there'll be plenty of people out there that either know much more about it that will fact check me on things. But I'll just kind of from a macro level I'll say that Lieutenant Michael Murphy was an officer in the Navy SEALs and he was leading a four man team on a reconnaissance mission deep in Taliban held territories of Kunar province and if you've ever read or known anything about Afghanistan, kunar province was like it was a bad, bad neighborhood we're talking. At times hundreds of Taliban could mass and attack either a US firebase there and if you ever watch the movie Restrepo, there's a bunch in Hollywood and literature out there on massive attacks that have happened in Kunar province where an entire US platoon was almost overrun. So that's the type of enemy situation they were going into and they went in for the purpose of identifying a high value target, so essentially an Afghan Taliban commander that was causing trouble attacking US and Afghan government forces. And so generally the way these missions work is there's a lot of risk associated with putting a small team in the enemy's backyard. So at a fairly high level, you know colonels, potentially general officers, are looking at this mission and deciding okay, this is risky, but we're going to approve it, because either the benefit outweighs the risk. But then we usually stack a bunch of resources on top of it. So there'll be some aircraft flying in support, there'll be a force nearby that can respond. So there's just some inherent risk. There's a lot of uncertainty of what may or may not happen inherent risk. There's a lot of uncertainty of what may or may not happen.

49:30

And the interesting thing about this story was they were in a in a observation position on a mountain identifying an enemy village, and they were compromised by like a goat herder. So a child essentially walked up to them. And that's the classic moral dilemma of what do you do in this situation. You know, someone with a little bit more callous might say hey, for the greater good, we have to neutralize this threat, this kid, because he could get the whole mission canceled or get us overrun. In this case, they allowed the kid to go because their own moral principles and just values said hey, this may cause risk to us, but we're not going to kill an innocent kid. We're letting this kid go. And, predictably, the kid informed the local Taliban of what was going on, and it was just a matter of time. There was, there was enemies swarming all around them, and this is a really, really bad situation to be in. The terrain is wicked. The Afghan Taliban can move in and about that terrain easily. That's their backyard.

50:28

They were moving with body armor or you know a bunch of equipment, so they were not going to be able to get out of there quickly, and so usually, as soon as that happens, you're calling for air support and you know, potentially emergency extraction, and they couldn't make comms. There was an issue with their satellite radio, and so what Lieutenant Michael Murphy did was he exposed himself to enemy fire to use his Iridium satellite phone. In order to use a satellite phone in the kind of heavily wooded areas of kind of that mountainside, he'd have to step out into a rocky outcropping and get a good, clean view of the sky. In order to do that, he's leaving cover and they're surrounded. They're getting hit very hard from very short distance, and so it's very likely he knew that in order to get off this phone call he was probably going to die, and sure enough he was shot while trying to make the phone call, dropped the phone, had to pick it back up, was able to get the signal and send that distress call and just let them know hey, we've been overrun. We need immediate support In that process. Three Michael Murphy died of his wounds after he made that call and for those actions he was awarded the Medal of Honor.

51:37

And then many people know what happened afterwards if you've read the book Lone Survivor. Of the four, marcus Luttrell was the only one that survived. He had to go through just unbelievable. He had to go through just unbelievable evasion scenario who's falling down mountains and eventually was protected by a local Pashtun tribesman who in their culture, if someone asks for help, you are morally obliged to protect them. Basically they would rather die than give up this American to the Taliban. So this village elder decided to shelter Marcus Luttrell, walked several miles to a local US base, said we have an American. That information got out and over. I mentioned to you I know some of the guys that went in on the extraction several days of walking through some ridiculous terrain and eventually we're able to converge on the village and find marcus and get him out of there. So, um, that's, that's basically the story. Any questions about that or anything unclear?

David Syvertsen

Host

52:40

about? No, that was great, you know, sam. Do you have any any thoughts on that, in combination with what you've known and read and have watched yourself?

Sam Rhee

Co-host

52:47

no, uh, I just keep thinking of mark walberg, yeah right yeah, and I'm just like that can't be exactly the way. It really right is, yeah. And then I also think of uh bradley cooper, because of that other movie, oh uh, shooter yeah, yeah, yeah like how, when you see the holly version of things, is it accurate? Is it something like oh my God, they're just totally botching this again?

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

53:14

Or like how do you feel it really depends? Yeah, I think sometimes there's just a little bit of Hollywood that's over, dramatizes things. It makes me roll my eyes, probably like most people, but generally I appreciate that. You know our culture is interested in carrying on their legacy and telling their stories. So by and large I don't have a problem with it. I try not to be the guy that's sitting there like, oh, that wouldn't have happened. That's not how you would shoot your gun.

David Syvertsen

Host

53:37

I have asked him a few times. I've sent him a text before like did this happen?

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

53:41

But I will tell you, if you want to watch a movie that is very accurate and for the most part people that were there really appreciate it, it's Black Hawk Down, which is a pretty incredible story and I think to this day probably one of the more realistic war movies that's been made.

David Syvertsen

Host

53:55

That depicts the special operations community their young 20s and they're kind of searching for what to do in life and, you know, I'm not really sure to be honest with you.

54:11

Like, what is the public perception of going into the army, enlisting, or going to west point, one of the academies, right? Um, you know, I just want you to, just for some of these guys that we have listening that are kind of in that, or we have parents of people that are in that and they'd, oh, I think that's what is my kid gonna do is to college. Like you know, the optics of college right now, the cost of it and some of the stuff that goes on there right now, I mean, should the army, should enlisting, should pursuing some of the academies? I'd like to kind of not sell it but kind of give a perspective of someone that's been through it, you know, like through everything, through everything, you know what this can do for someone, for not just say, hey, I don't know what to do with my life. I'm going to hop in just from a career perspective, from a personal excellence perspective.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

54:58

Yeah, I mean I haven't regretted a single day. I've spent in the army. I can say that with 100% confidence, I think. Even thinking about me growing up, I didn't know much about the military. We didn't have a lot of military history in our background. It was intimidating to me. Going back to describing the physical fitness aspect of it, it was somewhat intimidating to me at the time, but it's dissuading people. I think it should be a motivator to get fit and to be competitive. I think any young person should hopefully have an aspect of physical fitness in their life. That would not rule them out from serving in the military.

55:40

But there are tons of benefits. I think the things that have kept me in the military are the camaraderie and the people. You're going to build relationships that will last a lifetime. You're going to go through things with people that will be lifelong friends. So I think just from a culture standpoint, from just the people you meet, really is what makes it worth it. Now. As far as beyond that, there's a ton of other benefits as well.

56:03

If you're unsure about hey, do I want to go to college right now, or am I even going to be able to pay for college right now? We have the GI Bill and I have tons of soldiers that come in, serve for three, four, five years and then decide to go out and get out and go to school, get a degree. You know, it happens all the time. We also have people that just decide. You know, I never thought I'd stay in the Army for a career, but I'm going to reenlist and stick around. Um. And then one thing I would tell your listeners you've got, um, you've got a cohort of people that value fitness and are very strong. And I I can tell you, when I come to this gym, like it's intimidating. I'm like I'm walking in here as a green beret. I'm like I'm not impressing anybody. Oh, a special forces guy. I'm like, ow, it's going to crush me on these muscle-ups now, which I love. I love being in here and just getting destroyed by people in your gym. I love the culture of people pursuing excellence there.

57:03

But I'll say you've got people out here that'd probably be just ideal candidates for the special operations community. You have to have to succeed in the desire to pursue a goal and get a little bit better every day and encourage teammates and be a part of a team. That's really what Special Operations is. It's just one big team, and so what many people may not know is that you can actually join Special Forces from the street program, and a very significant percentage of our, of our formation is made up of people that were doing something else like working wherever and just decided they felt the itch, that they wanted to try something.

57:36

And they, you go to basic training, you go to airborne school and then you start. You go to Fort Liberty and you start the the uh special forces preparation course and then you go to selection Um and a lot of. We have a pretty high success rate for people that do that. Can't get into like the percentages and numbers, but it's absolutely attainable and we'll even give guys an opportunity to come back two, three times to continue trying if that's something they're interested in, and it's just a great opportunity to. You're going to see the world, you're going to travel, you're going to interact with multiple different cultures and then you're going to have that education benefit If it's something you decide you want to do, either after the Army or even while you're in. There's tuition assistant benefits for active duty soldiers that are getting degrees while they're in. A ton of people are doing that constantly. So yeah, that's my shameless plug. Yeah, absolutely Always recruiting no-transcript.

Sam Rhee

Co-host

58:55

That decision is special and I think we do need more people in our lives who do that, and I want to thank everyone at our gym who already has served, and I really hope that it's people like you and everyone else who decide to serve that will make our country continue to get better. I think you may think our country is doing awesome or not awesome. I think it's people like you that I trust and believe in that, and the people who join you that are going to continue to make me feel like our country is moving in the right direction. Yeah.

David Syvertsen

Host

59:35

Yeah, thanks, mike. I know that not the most comfortable thing in the world for you to do and I do appreciate that and I'm very much aware of that, but I do. I love hearing you talk. I can listen to you talk all day and I think a lot of people can get a lot out of what you just talked about on several different levels. So you know, I do appreciate you coming on, even though I know it's a little uncomfortable for you, and that's it. And if anyone wants to, no rep on Mike on any of his air squats tomorrow you are more than welcome to.

Mike, Dave's Brother

Guest

01:00:07

Yeah, your wife Ashley was just reminding me of how terrible my squat turned out before I came in, Because we were watching the CrossFit Open on TV and I was asking about the standard for front squat and she was like, yeah, you wouldn't be able to do that.

01:00:18

And I was like I know, but thanks, and I just want to say thanks for what you guys do to recognize veterans and also to recognize those that have paid the ultimate sacrifice. If you walk into this gym you see a lot that kind of reminds people of why they're doing what they're doing the focus on Memorial Day, the American flags in the parking lot. It's awesome to see and I think for anyone out there, if you're looking for a way to honor a veteran during Memorial Day weekend, just know that they're in your neighborhood. We were at dad's house mom and dad's house the other day. His neighbor across the street flew helicopters in Vietnam and had some bizarre stories. So I'd encourage you to meet whoever in your community served and ask them about the friends they've lost and, um, let them tell those stories and yeah, yeah, Cool All right, thanks, man.

David Syvertsen

Host

01:01:06

Love you bub, andb and uh, we'll see you guys next week. Thanks, thank you everybody for taking the time out of your day to listen to the herd fit podcast. Be on the lookout for next week's episode.