S05E158 - Unpacking the Events of Bison Brawl Oct 2024 with Event Director Adam Ramsden
Ever wondered what goes into meticulously planning a top-tier fitness competition? Discover the behind-the-scenes magic of the upcoming October 2024 Bison Brawl at CrossFit Bison in Midland Park, New Jersey. Join host David Syvertsen @davesy85 and cohost and event director, Coach Adam Ramsden @w.a.ramsden, as they unpack the complexities of designing workouts that challenge, engage, and entertain. From balancing demanding physical tests with safety protocols to ensuring an electrifying atmosphere for spectators, we provide a real sneak peak to the exciting event.
Intrigued by the logistics of running a seamless fitness event? We break down the intricate details, such as optimizing gym layouts, timing workouts to avoid burnout, and creating functional warm-up areas within spatial limitations. Listen as we stress the crucial role of clear judging standards to maintain fairness and reveal strategies for managing a diverse array of equipment. Whether you're an athlete or a fan, learn about the fine balance between competitor readiness and viewer enjoyment that ensures a memorable experience for everyone involved.
Curious about the thought process behind competition programming? Uncover the strategic elements that make the Bison Brawl workouts unique. We dive into the rationale of a three-station workout sequence, emphasizing endurance, adaptability, and the importance of practice. Gain insights into our decision-making for movements and transitions, and how these choices impact overall team performance. Stay informed with our communication plans via CrossFit Bison’s Instagram @crossfitbison and upcoming emails, and get a sneak peek into future episodes. Tune in for an episode brimming with energy, expertise, and excitement for what promises to be an unforgettable competition.
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S05E158 - Unpacking the Events of Bison Brawl Oct 2024 with Event Director Adam Ramsden
TRANSCRIPT
Speaker Names
David SyvertsenHost
00:05
Hey everybody, Welcome to the Herd Fit Podcast with Dr Sam Rhee and myself, Coach David Syverson. This podcast is aimed at helping anyone and everyone looking to enhance their healthy lifestyle through fitness, nutrition and, most importantly, mindset. All right, welcome back to the Herd Fit Podcast. I am Coach David Syardson. I'm here with my today's co-host, Coach Adam Ramson, who is also the director of the first ever Bison Brawl at CrossFit Bison in Midland Park, New Jersey, first Saturday of October. It's going to be here before we know it and today's episode is going to center around the three workouts that were just released and then some other kind of like logistical things and planning that Adam and I have done to this point and what to expect in the future. But before we get into that, right after Adam put his finishing touches on these workouts, he took his family to Turks and Caicos. So after he planned your death in October, he took his family to the Caribbean. Ramson, how was vacation?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
01:09
It was amazing, absolutely amazing. Perfect weather, good you know travel conditions. We flew out fine, had no problem at airports, which is usually like the most stressful part for me, absolutely so it was overall wonderful experience. Can't wait to do it again.
David SyvertsenHost
01:26
Speaking of stress, today's episode we are going to talk about the bison brawl workouts, but I do want to kind of peel back the curtain a little bit prior to actually talking about the workouts and what to expect.
01:37
And some other inside looks there strategically and we all we practice every single one of these workouts, or I should say we rehearse them so we can give you some real feedback on what it's going to be like to do them.
01:48
But Adam and I have met a few times. We're going to meet multiple times in the coming weeks and months to put on the best possible show for you guys, the athletes. And I want to kind of talk about what was the goal of programming three to four tests of fitness in regard to a CrossFit competition. And, adam, when you look at a CrossFit competition from afar you've done them, you've judged them, you've seen them, you know, watch them as spectators what do you think is the most important component or variable to look for when it comes to actually programming from a big picture perspective, Well, I wanted to look at two things when we started talking initially about running a comp, and one was that I wanted it to be something that was exciting and fun for the athletes, but also something that was, if I can like, a spectacle for spectators.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
02:44
Also, something that was if I can like a spectacle for spectators. You know, whenever you're going to compete, you know you want other members of your gym, family, friends, to come watch you, you know, perform, and so, as much as we want it to be a good test of fitness, I also wanted something that would be fun for people to watch and cheer for.
David SyvertsenHost
03:03
That would be fun for people to watch and cheer for. Yeah, that is a big deal. Because if we were going to only look at, hey, let's find the fittest people here, you really don't have to get that complex with programming. You really could find the fittest person there, usually by throwing a max capacity gymnastics test in, a max lift in and a 45-minute row. Nobody's can do karen, yes, or kelly, which is today's bison why? But it's really that's not fun to watch and it's not fun to do.
03:36
And from our perspective, you're trying to find two things here. You're trying to find people that want to sign up and do some fun workouts right, you want them to be unique, meaning you don't want to use a templated way of testing fitness that you see from the games or other competitions. You kind of want to put your own spin on it within reason. And then you want to make it safe right, that's a huge component. We're going to talk about that pretty much within every single workout once we get there. And logistically, I mean, there's a schedule, there's judging. We're going to get into that a little bit as well. Um, with each workout, with each event, with each movement in anyway. But I think what he touched on we want spectators to come and have fun, because we've been to comps before as spectators and you know not throwing shade on anyone, because this is not easy to do, to come up with these kinds of workouts, but there are some workouts you're kind of just like this is kind of boring, especially if you're watching the same workout over and over for two hours, which is the case. So if you had to put a number on it, you know, like one to five, what is most important Is it finding fitness, being safe, logistically doable, being unique and spectator-friendly.
04:50
Where do you rank spectator? Middle, top, bottom, where do you rank that?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
04:54
It's got to be below the experience for the athletes. I think that's most important. But I also think it's got to be pretty high in your mind of where are people going to stand. Are they going to be able to see the athlete they came to cheer for, or are they going to be four zones away looking at them work out in the back of the gym? You know so, although it's not, I think, the most important thing, when you're initially thinking about the workouts, I think it has to be taken into account.
David SyvertsenHost
05:21
Yeah, that's a great point. I think it has to be taken into account. Yeah, that's a great point. There's nothing worse than going to a comp and not getting within 30 feet of an athlete that you drove an hour in some cases two hours to drive and cheer for. If you can't get to them, it's a little rough and I know a lot of people here want the social media attention or the videos and you want to be able to give that opportunity for spectators to come and really provide that for the athlete themselves. But that's another good point that you brought up.
05:47
The athlete does need to be considered first. They are the ones that are paying. Our competition is $195 for a pair and it's on the high side. I'm going to get into why we did that, but you need to make sure that they are going to get their bang for their buck. They're the ones doing the working out, they're the ones putting up the money up front. So I do think I agree with you. They go first. Their experience needs to be first, but you cannot push the spectators to the side.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
06:16
Yeah, and selfishly, if an athlete has a good experience, they're going to go back to their gym and they're going to say oh, I did this comp, it's so great you got to do it next year. Yeah, you know, that's how Barbells and Beers is every year. Every year, people come back and they say it was so much fun. You know everybody. Spectators are right there cheering you on.
David SyvertsenHost
06:39
Everybody's screaming in your face like, yeah, I hit weights. I never thought I could. You got to them. They're the ones that kind of like gave us the final nudge to go and do this, because they've been saying we should try to do this for a couple years now and you know I've said this before, I'll say it again they do set the bar for the just the quality of the competition, programming, logistics and, uh, you know all the variables that we've already talked about when it comes to testing these athletes, adam, because at the end the day, this is a competition and it's beyond intramural level in my opinion.
07:07
Right, we just had an intramural competition here at Bison this past Saturday. It's an intra gym only where the athletes from Bison we make the teams and the prize and that's literally $10 to sign up and the prizes are Twix bars and, you know, fun little medals and a belt that Adam Hawkinson got made. You know, it's for fun and I actually say that at the whiteboard prior to the competition. It's guys, this is more fun than competing, and that does. It kind of just brings the mood down to like all right, let's chill here.
07:37
It's okay if my judge misses that this, the bison roll, is probably more competition than fun. It's a lot more expensive. There's going to be cash prizes, the judging is going to be a little bit more serious. We're hiring a staff of people and vendors and photographers. It's going to be a much bigger spectacle. So, because of that, what we're trying to find in a test of fitness is really important. Where the Bison Bra ball is more like hey, let's keep it safe and fun, bison brawl is all about hey, we got to find the fittest people here. At the end of the day, that's what we are trying to do, sure? What do you think needs to be tested over the course of four workouts for that to be the case?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
08:19
I think you need to be obviously testing the main things strength, gymnastics capacity, gymnastics capacity, grit, you know, communication between partners. But it's also important that you don't structure your workouts where, if you're the strength athlete and I'm the gymnastics athlete, you do all the strength, I do all the gymnastics. We want to set the bar where you know you have to have capacity across the board, because that's what fitness ultimately is Right. How good are you at everything? You know you can't just come in and say, okay, I'll do all the lifting, you do all the toes to bar and we're good. You know. We want to be able, we want to structure the workout so that we almost make that impossible. Yeah, and we've got to strategize between the two of us. Of all right, we know that this has got to be broken up a certain way, like where can we kind of transition so that you know we get the best score possible?
David SyvertsenHost
09:17
Right, and that's a great way, that's a great leeway into what we eventually will talk about with the workouts. Because I think what Adam's talking about right now some of you might be like, ooh, what, what, how, what does he mean? It's impossible to have a specialist type team Like, hey, I have my gymnast and bodyweight athlete, I have my weightlifter, they, those, they will help you in certain sections, portions of the programming, but, big picture, it's not going to help you to have a specialist. Um, if anything, if it's a really extreme specialist, an extreme lifter, an extreme gymnast, it actually might end up hurting your team. And so do you think there's a lot of athletes out there that will only sign up for partner slash team competitions and they'll avoid the individual stuff because they are a specialist, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. But do you think you know, as we kind of get into you know my personal year 12, year 13 of doing CrossFit, I've seen the team competitions really tick up and popularity and the individual popularity turn down, do you?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
10:19
think it has to do with some of that specialty athlete type stuff it could. I think it also has to do with the fact that team competitions are just more fun. Yeah, I think it also has to do with the fact that team competitions are just more fun, yeah. And so if we're looking at a broader range of not just competitive athletes but athletes that are looking to compete but not making it their sole focus, then I think the team aspect kind of makes that more popular for them.
David SyvertsenHost
10:43
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I've always said that individual is probably a little bit more truth-telling, in some ways a little bit more fulfilling, but team is, without a doubt, fun, and that's where a lot of us stand with this stuff. Yes, I want to compete and test myself, but I do want to have a good time doing it, and so that's where I do think some of that popularity ticks up. Now, before we get into these workouts, what were some of the struggles that we had to account for? Because we have figured out what we want to test and how we want to test it and why we think that's important, and we've looked at all different forms of organization and safety. But what were some of the things that really could get in the way, both big picture, but also exclusive to our gym and the space that we have here? What were some of the things that really could get in the way, both big picture, but also exclusive to our gym and the space that we have here. What were some of the things that we had to account for?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
11:30
Yeah, I think the first thing is obviously timing of the workouts. You know you can't make a workout too long, so if you're looking to test capacity, you have to figure out a way to do that without having a 25 minute AMRAP. You know of workout Um, the layout of the gym is important, especially when we get back to talking about how important, um, the spectators are and people being able to move around the gym, even though you need a lot of space, uh, with some of these workouts, um. So yeah, I mean there there are things that you have to take into account, especially in the specific space where you're doing the competition.
David SyvertsenHost
12:04
Yeah, one thing that I said we we still have to take into account, especially in the specific space where you're doing the competition. Yeah, one thing that we still have to kind of really figure out we have time, we know we have to figure this out, it's going to be a priority at some point is the warmup area, and I've been to countless competitions over my life and especially at a. That warm-up area more often than not is subpar compared to what you are used to when you go show up at your gym, like it's a very tight space, small amount of equipment. I've had comps where, like you can't warm up prior to Like you just have to go out there and wing it. I've been outdoor, I've been indoor, I've been crowded, I've been not crowded.
12:43
That's something that we really did have to kind of take into account for two reasons. The schedule is really tough to do and that's going to be one of our biggest tasks once we start to see how many teams actually sign up and we have contingency plans like, hey, if we get 40 teams, it could be this, if it's 80 teams, it's going to have to be this. Um, but you can't put too many people on the floor if you're going to use space in your gym to warm up. So we've already started talking about maybe creating an outdoor warm-up area that would not have a rig, which is very common for for warm-up areas and competitions.
13:16
Um, how much, how much? Because again, we're putting the athlete first. So we do say, hey, you guys have to warm up. Where do you kind of throw that into that whole? You know, the whole gathering of all. Right, who are we trying to take care of here? Because it would be a lot easier to use the gym for comp only so that spectators had more space and we could get more people in a heat. Where do you put, stack up the warm-up area and how much do you think is really needed for warm-up area?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
13:50
I mean, I think it's really important, especially when you're running a team competition, is that you have to account for double the people warming up every time you know so and you want to give them access to as much as you can or as much equipment and as much space, because we do want to test fitness and part of being fit is making sure that you're ready to perform at the time you know when your heat's up. So I think it's super important. You know, obviously we're still looking at different ways to be able to let people warm up, but it's something to definitely take into account.
David SyvertsenHost
14:18
Next, up the judging. Okay, we were pretty. In my opinion, we were pretty safe with the workouts movements. It's a ton of movements, by the way. We're going to get into that A lot of movements, which I'm excited about, but we also have to take into account we're going to be asking I don't know 15, 20, maybe 25 volunteers to come and spend their Saturday counting reps over and over, counting reps over and over, and there were certain things that we didn't want to make them do, especially in year one, because bad judging can leave a really bad mark on a competition.
14:52
It can ruin the reputation of the place that's hosting it. It could repute, ruin the reputation of certain athletes and I've seen that before, having good judges and bad judges. We did not put double unders into this one and there was one workout where we really felt like double unders would have been a great movement for for that middle workout, but it's movement that can be pretty difficult to judge and at some point, if we keep running this, they're going to appear at some point, but we want it to be safe. Did how much did you think about judging and the ability for a judge to do their job at a high level with our support when you were planning some of these workouts.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
15:31
Yeah, it's tough because consistency of judging is something that an issue that you're going to run into, whether it's, you know, during the open, all the way up to the games, you know it's just people will find issues with the judging of. Oh, this judge was making everybody go into the absolute bottom of their squat. This judge was kind of letting people go right around parallel, right. So when we were looking at the movements that we were going to throw in and yes, there are a lot of movements, but we did want to think about things that were easy to say okay, here's the standard that you have to hit, and once it's hit, you're good, we'll count the rep and move on to the next one. Yep.
David SyvertsenHost
16:08
Now equipment. Here's another thing. You know we're using a lot of equipment in this. Different equipment. Again, I think it's a good thing because it really widens the scope of what you need to prepare yourself for. You can't just go practice this is where people get hurt, in my opinion is like ring dips, for example. That one year they were in the regionals and these guys were tearing their pecs left and right. I think part of it was that these guys were just practicing them way too much leading up to that weekend.
16:35
And with this, you know we have dumbbells, we have barbells, we have box, we have bike, we have sandbags, we have the rig, we have wall balls, the wall space, actually like leaning up against the wall space, actual like leaning up against the wall. There's so much to prepare for. Did you, when you were reviewing the workouts, were you trying to keep track of what was being used, what was not being used? Uh, did you not want to use? You know, for example, we didn't want to have the barbell on all three workouts, right, um, were you trying to make sure there was a lot of different tools and toys to use?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
17:03
so that you know it just kind of can widen the the fitness test because it's different using a kettlebell and dumbbell yeah, um, I want to use as much stuff as possible, just because, when you asked me to do this, it's like all right, toys, yeah, a kid on christmas, um, but uh, you know, it's something that I've. I you going to see a lot of competitions and being a spectator at a lot. I love seeing odd objects and things that you don't normally use every day in a CrossFit workout, but it's very tough to use those objects in anything but a floater wad because you don't have 25 sandbags to use. So I think we came up with an interesting way to be able to use those in an actual workout that your spectators can come see and see you do something that you normally wouldn't see in a CrossFit workout.
David SyvertsenHost
17:57
Yeah, and it's a challenge to the gym itself that we kind of do a little bit of an audit on this stuff that we have here, and should we add this, should we take away, should we get more of these and less of these? And this is going to put us in a spot where we probably should use some of the funds that are coming in to kind of update some of our equipment. And, yes, now we get to use it in the competition, but now our gym gets to use it moving forward, which I'm really excited about. Phone, which I'm really excited about, um, just a little bit more toys to torture with people, with programming, um. So let's do this, let's dive into these workouts, um. And basically what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna give the workouts I'm going off memory here because the workouts are on my phone, but I'm pretty sure I got it. I got them here and um, and then adam's gonna kind of touch on them. I think that the first one is I'm really excited to get him to talk about it, because this was like when I asked him like hey, what's the what's the one thing you want to do in this comp with the programming? This was it and it ended up working out. We tweaked the time domains a little bit and we'll tell you why. We'll open up that curtain a little bit, but I'm excited to tell this one, because this was like this was all Adam here.
19:01
So basically, the workout's going to be this you have three stations out on the floor and you're going to work your way down the floor. You're not going to be staying in the same spot. So it's going to be what a lot of you guys used to see as like weightlifting ladders, where you're moving up to the next bar. Moving up to the next bar, new team comes in every heat. That's going to be the way that this works. Your station lasts two minutes long and there are two movements. In every station there's two athletes. You guys are simply just going for max reps. There's no rule on transitions. You guys could stay at the same station for the entire time if you want, or you can rotate halfway through when we practice this. That's essentially what we did.
19:38
So here are the three stations. Station one dumbbell snatch 50 for the guys, 35 for the girls. Scale is 35 for the guys, 25 for the ladies. The other movement is burpee over dumbbell. So basically, you're looking at the movements from 24.1. Dumbbell snatch burpees over the dumbbell how many reps can you guys get? Two minutes, switch when you want.
19:56
Station number two is the echo bike paired with the sandbag to shoulder. So it's not sandbag over shoulder, you actually have actually get it to your shoulder they call this a sandbag clean as well and one hand has to be completely off that sandbag at the top. It's got to be on that shoulder. Station number three is box jump overs 24 for guys, 24 ladies, and I think we said we can go step overs for scale and then the barbell is shoulder overhead 155 for guys, I went 110 for ladies. Talk about that a little bit, um and that.
20:32
So basically those are the three stations. You have two minutes to accrue as many reps as you can. There's only going to be a 30 second transition and that gives you enough time to recalibrate. Make sure, on the same, adjust seat height of that bike if you need to, and also get that next team in, because it is going to be a rapid fire. Hey, you guys are up, you guys are up, you guys are up, until every single team has gone through that gauntlet. Adam, why did you want to do something that was formatted in this way.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
21:01
So I think the station's opportunity gives us, like we were saying before, an opportunity to use a lot of different equipment. You know, you don't need eight echo bikes, you don't need eight sand bags, I just need one of each um, uh, for the different weights, obviously Um, and then, once I so station number two is where this idea came from. And then I worked backwards and I wanted to get people tired for station two. So two movements that you know consistently you should be able to move for two minutes, whether you're doing burpees or doing dumbbell, snatch, um, even if you need to transition halfway through. That should be two minutes of consistent movement.
21:40
Then it's a quick transition to station two. Right, obviously, you're going to accrue um maximum amount of reps on the bike, but we know the bike beats people up Um, so you know that's putting it nicely. Yes, um, and you know. So the focus, I think, in station two is going to be on the echo bike, but also, if you can move that sandbag, just accruing those reps, every rep is going to count there. If you can move that sandbag, just accruing those reps, every rep is going to count there. And then a quick transition to station three, where you kind of have a mixed capacity where you can say, if you have a strength athlete, they can do more on the barbell, whereas if you have a conditioned athlete they're going to be able to accrue a lot of box jump overs, but two minutes is a tough to hang on to accrue a lot of box jump overs, but two minutes is a tough, it's tough to hang on to for anybody, yep. So you're going to need probably need to transition at some point there.
David SyvertsenHost
22:32
My thoughts on this workout as an athlete is I think you picked the perfect order of these three movements. Like I don't think if you made station three, station one, station one, station two, it would. It would be a different and worse test of fitness. This is the best way to order these movements because, like you said, everyone can rip through dumbbell snatches and burpees for two minutes. If you go all out, you're going to be very tired for the rest of the workout. So, uh, and then you get to that station two.
23:00
I wouldn't want the cow bike in station one because even if you do sprint it and you're kind of ruining yourself the rest of the workout sort of. You know, a fresh sprint on the bike and a tired, hard effort on a bike could be a difference of 20 30 calories, absolutely like we know that. So you're no one's getting to that bike fresh. So there will be no full-blown sprinting. It's just not going to happen. And then that last one, the box jump over shoulder to overhead. We practice this with slightly lower weight. That barbell at that point of the workout is going to feel awful. So there's going to be a lot of decision-making here. With that barbell it's like, hey, do you just stay at the barbell, let the jumper jump back and forth and just do as many reps as you can? Or at some point you're going to have to make the change and forth and just do as many reps as you can, or at some point you're going to have to make the change.
23:46
And this is where we made the weights of this, with both the sandbag and the shoulder to overhead. That, yes, you're. If you guys do have a strong athlete and the other person that's a little bit more, a little bit better at moving their body weight, it doesn't necessarily help you out that much. No, if you have specialists, right, how much thought did you put into that with we made this? We kept on talking about hey, big guy friendly, small guy friendly. And to me there's really no way to look at this work out and be like hey, big guy, you're on there, small guy, you're on there. It just won't work.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
24:20
No, you need to be able to do everything. Now that doesn't mean that you have to be as good as your partner at everything. Obviously, if you have a specialist, one person's going to do the majority of work at each part, but you can't just say like, all right, you're on the sandbag and I'll bike for two minutes, yeah.
David SyvertsenHost
24:40
Because you're not going to want to do that, and what do you do? So and also again this is why I like the order what do you do after you? Bike for two minutes Like I couldn't go jump on a box, but I also know my lead drive won't be there for the overhead Right, so it's a bike for two minutes at hard effort, like I can't do anything after that. So what do you do? Also, the sand 100 for guys, 75 for ladies. By the way, the RX and the Masters 40+ they're all the same weights. You're obviously just competing against other Masters.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
25:14
I had somebody ask me about that too, did you?
David SyvertsenHost
25:20
They were like oh, I was waiting until the workouts came out to see if Masters was lighter weights.
25:24
We can talk about that at the end if we have some time here. But no, if you're going to have someone dumbbell snatch for two minutes which you could do and it wouldn't crush you you essentially are saying that person has to be on the bike after, because it would be really tough to dumbbell snatch, pull from the ground for two minutes and then go do sandbag cleans Like you better have the posterior capacity of a games athlete if you're going to do that. So that's why, again, not only when and if do you transition in these two-minute periods is important, but where you start and where you end in relation to the next station is going to be a huge impact on your team's score. So you might not even find the fittest team physically at the top of the leaderboard after this first workout. Because strategy is such a big factor and know what I love about this too it's going to make people practice this workout four or five times, which is just going to be awful.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
26:20
Yeah, now, originally my idea was one minute stations and we changed it to two minutes, which I think was a great decision by you, because with one minute stations you could have somebody stay on that movement for one minute. I mean, that's what we did Technically, we did a minute of work at each movement, but I think you can't do it for two minutes.
David SyvertsenHost
26:40
Yeah, you ever have a coach come up to you at the end of a workout like you could do anything for a minute and like in your head like shut the fuck up, you know. But here, if a coach came up to you said you could do anything for two minutes, nobody would. Nobody would buy that, yeah, and you had you still have to have gas in the tank for the next station and we should not look at this as two minute workouts. We should. It's a six minute workout really, with a couple 30 second rests insecond rests in there.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
27:04
So really— and it's the first workout. Yeah, it's the first workout.
David SyvertsenHost
27:07
You've got two more to do. Last thing on this, then we'll move on to the second workout. Some comps by default always put the strength portion in the first workout. Were you thinking of doing that Because there is a strength portion of the bison brawl which is coming up or do you like this kind of like I call it like an icebreaker? Like you just kind of there's not a lot of skill in this one. I would even say there's almost no skill in comparison to what we have else in the comp where you like people are nervous, maybe not fully warmed up, kind of on edge. This workout's just effort and strategy. What did you think about that in terms of making this the actual first workout?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
27:47
Yeah, I think it's tough to lift in the first workout, especially early in the morning if you're used to working out in the afternoon. So I think we structured the three workouts that, yeah, this is kind of like not to say it's a warm-up workout, but it's something like you said. Not a lot of high skill is involved. You know you should need less warm-up for this one and then you know it kind of ramps up into the strength portion of the second workout and then the grit of the third workout.
David SyvertsenHost
28:19
All right. So now on to workout number two. This is a two-parter. 2a is you have seven minutes to do this workout. Okay, you have to do four rounds Again, you and your partner.
28:33
15 toes to bar, 10 hang squat cleans, 115 for guys, 75 for ladies. Scaled, you're 95-65. And then five bar muscle-ups, scaled, you're doing knee raises, hang squat cleans at the lower weight, and then you're doing five pull-ups. So you and your partner, you split this however you want. You have to do that four times. Okay, your partner, you split this however you want. You have to do that four times.
28:57
Okay, when you're done with that workout, you now have the rest of those seven minutes to accrue as many toes to bar as possible for your. So your score for this workout will be as many reps as you can get in that seven minute period. Immediately following that seven minute period is the strength portion of this test. It's only four minutes long, it's going to be short. You have a preloaded bar somewhat, and now you have a complex of two deadlifts, one clean, three front squats. So that bar is going to be on the ground. You got deadlifted twice and you have to go to a hand clean, power squat, whatever you want and then you go do three front squats. Common question in a complex like this if I squat clean, it does that count as my first front squat?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
29:38
It does not, no, yep you have to establish the end of that clean, you know fully extended in the front rack and then move into your three front squats.
David SyvertsenHost
29:47
So this is going to be. I don't think we're going to really touch on how we're going to score this yet, but it's a two-part test. You have your gymnastics capacity, it's going to warm up your squat, and then you have the strength test. Opening thoughts on this workout, we did this one as well.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
30:02
Yep, I think it's easy to say, oh, let's split this up into if you're good on the rig, do a majority of the work on the rig and then I'll do a majority of the work, or maybe all the work, on the barbell to begin with. But once you get to those max toes to bar, all of a sudden everybody's gymnastics capacity is not going to be where they need it to be for max reps. So you do need to figure out a way to kind of split up this work as best as you can. But I think there's a couple of ways that you can do that.
David SyvertsenHost
30:34
And we can tell you guys this now your barbell is going to be about five to seven feet away from the rig and whoever is working needs to be on the other side of the barbell, so away from the rig. So if you're on the gymnastics rig and you're doing your toes bar, when you guys transition, you have to tag each other in. Guys transition, you have to tag each other in. So it's not going to be this like hey, stand next to me, Whenever I come down, you go right back up. You are going to lose time by transitioning Not a lot, but you are going to lose time.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
31:00
But it's also you think about it, if you're breaking up the toast bar to make that tag, to get the other athlete to the rig, and then you kind of have to do that stutter step. There is time there, Absolutely so. So that comes into strategy, I think strategically, this one was a little tough.
David SyvertsenHost
31:15
Like we, we kept it simple. We split the toes bar. Eight, seven, we split, we did, each did five hang squat cleans and then we split the bar muscle-ups three, two. Whoever did the bigger sets of toes, a bar um, did the smaller sets of muscle-ups. Vice versa ended up being pretty even.
31:33
And what I thought was the most unique part of this test all right, I'm just talking about that triplet that we just talked about was when you were done with bar muscle-ups, your 15 toes of bar were staring you in the face and if you have a gymnast that is capable, you could go from that last muscle-up right into your toes of bar and just kind of cut out that transition. And if you have the capacity to do that, you do it. If not, you just keep switching. We kept on switching, if I remember correctly, um, the grip factor. That's another sneaky part of this workout. Even though you're not working the entire time, you're working and resting at different times. You're pulling, holding on to something the entire time. That's one thing about hank. Squawk things, I think, surprise people a lot. The weight selection on this is not heavy. Nope, was that by design?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
32:18
Yeah, it should be something that we wanted people to be able to move through and almost to be a kind of almost warm up for the lifting portion. Yeah, you know. So something that you didn't have to worry about, you know really.
David SyvertsenHost
32:35
It was more about speed for those first four rounds. Yeah, and one thing I can say it's going to be tough to judge and this is going to be one thing that we're going to try to be as strict as we can with our judges, as we meet with them and at the athlete briefing and standard video that we eventually put out there is that usually on light hang squat cleans that are cycled really quickly and people are moving as fast as they can, that are cycled really quickly and people are moving as fast as they can. It's really common for athletes to stand up and start getting the bar off the shoulder to go to the next rep before they actually stand it up. And I can tell you guys right now warning to all athletes we are going to be literally trying to no rep that that's going to be something that we're going to try to be really strict with that you have to stand up at the top. Now the actual squat. Let's talk about the squat because, out of all three workouts, this is the only squatting you're doing until the very end of the competition and we we feel we both feel very strongly that a squat needs to be tested and what I, like you did with this workout was, you know I'm? I'm someone that really likes to warm up for for heavy squatting, and this, this is good enough for me, at least at the start.
33:37
What we wanted to make sure we did is that, you know, you guys have a heavy squat test. That is the strength test of this whole competition. Is those three squats? Yep, are those three squats? Did you feel that that was the right complex? Did you consider any other complexes? Did you consider any other strength movements to be what we really wanted to test? Why the front squat?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
33:59
So we wanted to. I wanted to do something that was multiple reps. You know that by the time you get there you feel pretty good lifting. You know I felt great. Once we got to the lift I was surprised how well I felt, and so I think we're going to be able to see some weights people hit that they probably haven't hit before Comp day. You know the adrenaline's pumping but we did want to stay away from. You know multiple hang cleans because you know the bounce clean of are you extending your elbows down at the bottom or are you still, you know, moving through that. So I think the front squat is something that you know. Three reps you can grit through, but it's going to be tough.
34:42
Yeah.
David SyvertsenHost
34:43
I mean that's a great point with the hand clean. We've had hand clean at past competitions that we've run and I'm not anti-bounce Like I don't. If you're allowed to do it, you do it. You know I'm personally terrible at it and um, that just is what it is. But there's two thoughts there, just for coming from my perspective is it is a different test for someone that could bounce the bar multiple times. That's why it's only one clean correct. The other side of it is the safety component. Space is going to be a little tight for this workout not dangerous, but it's going to be a little tight and you're going to have spectators feet like just feet away from this barbell and you know we're still going to kind of figure out what direction everyone's going to be facing what's safe, what's not safe, what's fair, right, we're literally going to be hey, every barbell is going to be x amount of feet from the rig period.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
35:31
Um, and where the weight's going to be, and everything like that I've seen this before at comps.
David SyvertsenHost
35:36
I always get nervous, and this is part of the risk is that when you do a lot of tired cleans that are really heavy, people are snatches right. People start catching them forward and they get walked forward. They get pulled forward by the weight and all of a sudden now you're with 300 pounds in some cases running towards 18 people cheering for you with their phones out and not really paying attention to what's happening. That was part of our thought process. Yep, that, hey, it is going to be one clean. There's a little bit of risk there, but once you catch that barbell and once you're under control, now it comes down to just that brute strength. Can you lock in that front squat?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
36:10
And you're staying in the same spot. Exactly, you're not walking forward on a front squat. You know, unless that weight's pulling you forward but it rarely happens you know, if that weight's going to pull you forward, you're probably going to fail the rep Yep.
David SyvertsenHost
36:20
Did you have any thought of testing the snatch for strength, or was that just not something you want to touch yet?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
36:25
Not something you know. Just like there's weight changes and everything like that, especially in a partner competition, it's tough. You have two people that are completely different in their snatch capacity. So you know we have some athletes that can snatch 250 pounds, like you know. If I'm doing a competition with somebody and I can only snatch 150, how are we going to figure that out? So I think with this complex it's going to be closer. You'll still have, you know, big ranges, I'm sure with some of the, some of the strength lifters, but that comes again when you have four minutes to lift into the strategy portion.
David SyvertsenHost
37:01
Yeah, Last thing how many lifts do you think realistically consider the fact that the four minutes starts right after that seven minute period? So essentially, by the time you guys are done working out, you're done with that max toes of bar, you can start changing your weights, all that stuff. You're probably maybe looking at three lifts each.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
37:18
And you also have to think about how can you work the weights, because with weight changes and everything like that, that takes time. You want to get your maximum score possible in combination of the two lifts that you do, so that's got to be planned out.
David SyvertsenHost
37:34
Yeah, definitely has to be planned out. The weights that are on the bar, like, if you can, you could just smack your 45s on there, go from there. But if you're not strong enough to do that, you're going to have to account for a little bit of extra time to take weights off and on. And we are going to be pretty strict with where the weights that are not being used need to be, so they're not going to be directly behind you in case someone takes a fall. They can't be directly in front of you in case you start walking forward. There's going to be a specific spot for your weights and if the weights that are not being used, if they're not there and they don't have clips on your bar, the lift won't count. So this is another thing where, like guys, I know you're strong, I know you're fit, but you guys have to put some serious amount of thought into all these little details to get your possible score. And your score there will obviously be the combined weight of your two lifters, yep, um. And then we're gonna you know, we'll talk about how we're gonna actually score the event itself, uh, down the road. So that is workout two. Um, workout three is my personal favorite, just because it's it's unique. Um, it's very difficult. I think this is the one that we were just like holy crap, this is a lot tougher than we thought, and I actually got asked by someone last night like why did you do it this way? What's the point? And we're going to dive into it. I want to give you the workout and give Adam his time to talk about it.
38:46
The workout is for time 800-meter row for guys, 600 meters for the ladies, 30 wall walks, 60 synchro kettlebell lunge, rx 35 for guys, 26 for ladies, and then we're going to go 25, 15 for the scale division and then 90 wall balls. So it's a pretty simple workout. It's a chipper You're rowing, you're wall walking, you're synchro kettlebell lunge, you're 90 wall balling. However, during those 90 wall balls, somebody needs to be upside down. Handstand is against the wall. I got that question on Instagram last night. It's a normal handstand facing out. You'll be able to see your person that's doing the wall balls, because the wall balls will be done in the middle of the gym. We're going to attach wall ball targets to the rig and that's where you'll be doing them. Where was the inspiration from this workout?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
39:43
So I think we wanted to make the last workout the most difficult. You kind of got to dig deep At the end of the comp. It's been a long day but you still have 90 wall balls staring at you as the last thing you have to do and they're going to be tired shoulder wall balls Like there's no rest for your shoulders at any point when you get there. So it's definitely a grit, you know, dig deep workout.
David SyvertsenHost
40:06
And again, again, big guy, small guy, who favors it more? This one. It really evens out my opinion. Because the big athletes, the strong athletes, they get the advantage on that initial row and we both can't wait to watch people row on that. Because there's, in my opinion, there's two ways to do this. You just put it in half Yep, all right.
40:24
400, 400 for the guys, 300, 300 for the girls. Or you switch, you know you do it. You just put it to quarters. And again, that's going to be something you guys have to practice, because when you transition you lose time. But you could also row at a much higher rate. But I I am expecting to see near max effort rowing on this workout from every athlete. Yep, like. We're going to see guys pulling a 115, we're seeing girls pull a 128. It's going to be fun, and then that's just the buy-in. Now you have 30 wall walks, but however you want. So if you do have a gymnast, they can be, and I think that number is important 30. Yep, in that, even if you have a specialist, they can't do all 30. No, they're going to have to. Maybe. I can't imagine them doing more than 20 without needing a break.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
41:04
And, just like workout two, the other athlete will be behind the rower, so everybody will be the same distance away. So you're going to have to make that tag. So how many times do you want to transition? Again, that's going to add to your time and take away from time that you have to work.
David SyvertsenHost
41:20
So you're looking at about, you're about halfway through. It's only a 12-minute cap and we'll get into that in a little bit too. So when I say you're halfway through, time-wise, you're about halfway through, because I think that portion will take about six minutes. Maybe some pairs get it done in five, we'll see. But now the rest of the workout is you guys are both working out at the same time. So this is where I think it's a really cool curveball, especially at the end of the day. You guys are tired at this point. You put yourself through the blender on that rower. You guys pretty much both went to max capacity on your own wall walks. Now you guys have to, for the rest of the workout, work at the same time. You have to work off each other, correct, and this is going to be really cool.
41:59
So the 60 synchro kettlebell lunges stick with me for a sec. Okay, the first 15 are right, or I should just say the first 30 are front rack. It's only one kettlebell, so it's not heavy, but you guys have to be standing at the same time at the end of the lunge. The first 15 are on one arm, the next 15 on the other arm, front rack, and now your 30 lunges into the workout, the decision comes down to do we put this thing down or do we go into the next 30, which is one we're going to do 15 reps with it overhead in one hand and then at 15, you have to switch hands again and go to the other hand. So basically, you're doing 30 front rack lunges synchro and then 30 overhead lunges synchro and you do have to switch arms when you get to that halfway point. What's the inspiration there? Because that was a lot tougher than I thought it was.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
42:51
It was tougher than we thought it was. But I think if it was the end of the workout you could have done it unbroken. Yeah, right, for sure. We put it down after the front rack lunges, took a little break, five, ten seconds and then went into the overhead lunges. But I don't think you have to do that. But then you have to realize you're not done after those 60 lunges Not even close, not even close lunges. And we wanted something that was easy to decide. Synchro, right, because synchro movements are always tough to judge. This one doesn't matter whether you lunge five seconds before I do, as long as we're standing up at the same time. That's the completed rep and then you go into the next one. Yeah, so a little bit easier on the judges, I think. But yeah, that's. The question is, do you want to go unbroken there?
David SyvertsenHost
43:34
when we practice this. We did this with the 35 pounders and we're both pretty good at lunging like I wouldn't call it a strength or weakness. We're you know, we're pretty good at them and it got hard at the end, but it never got to a point where you couldn't do the lunge but you started to lose the stability. Do you think this would have changed the workout completely if you went for your traditional 53-pound kettlebell for guys, 35-pound kettlebell for the ladies? Yeah, I do too.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
43:59
Yeah, I think the wall ball capacity would have been completely shot by the time you were finished with the lunges and I want to see teams do this on broken.
David SyvertsenHost
44:08
I want to see teams be like yo your arm gets a break, but it's 60 lunges in a row.
44:14
It's, it's hard and they're not going to be fresh right, and you still have those 90 wall balls staring in the face. What was the inspiration behind this last curveball? That you guys are going to try to get 90 wall balls done, but the judge will be standing next to the athlete doing the wall balls and they will tell you when you're allowed to pick that ball up. They're going to be looking at your teammate and just so, if you don't know the layout of our gym, the wall is about 25 feet away from where the wall ball person is and that person is going to be staring at the uh, the handstand holder. The second they get upside down with control. They're going to say go and that's when the athlete can start ripping through the wall balls. What happens here? Does the person getting wall balls, do they get tired? Then you make the switch or the person upside down is going to be like bro, I can't hold this anymore. We have to switch. What was the inspiration behind that?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
45:05
As far as me personally, the handstand hold became the problem, you know. Is that you know, is that you know you're doing wall balls? You just did lunges, so the legs are pretty tired, but you can do wall balls, you know, even though you have to like jump every rep, it seems. But I got to a point where I just couldn't hold a handstand, you know, and I was like my shoulders were shot.
David SyvertsenHost
45:27
So just so you know we're going to say no butt on the wall on those handstand holds Right. Just so people know it's going to be all shoulders holding up there, yep, and you know you're very good at wall balls.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
45:37
but you could have gone probably 15, 20 reps every time up there, but I just could not hold myself upside down.
David SyvertsenHost
45:43
I'll tell you what I have capacity. I'm not fast at them and my leg stamina is not good. So after those lunges you get to those wall balls, like you might be like oh, wall balls aren't that bad for me. Go do 60 lunges and then go try to do some wall balls. And what I love about the workout is, even though you get to overhead failure on the handstand, you go there. I'm like all right, thank God, I don't have to be in a handstand, your shoulders still get taxed on wall balls 100%. So it's like what do you even?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
46:12
do, especially with tired legs. Yeah, now you're like what do I try to do? I try to jump as high as I can and then put as much force from my shoulders into the wall ball as possible.
David SyvertsenHost
46:23
And again, big guy, small guy, you can. If you do have extreme specialists on this. I bet there are some teams out there that could say like, hey, I can hold that handstand for three minutes. Can you do 90 straight wall balls? That would be the extreme. I do think that can be done. I would love for a team to try it.
46:39
Much easier said than done, especially when you're fresh, than at the end of a competition that you've already worked out multiple times and then after all that other previous work, because the workout is really well put together in that your legs won't be fresh, your shoulders won't be fresh, no matter what, and your heart rate will be very high. Yes, so that's just. It's going to be one of them. I think that's going to be my favorite one to watch, because it kind of encompasses everything that we've talked about in terms of what we want to test Fitness, teamwork, strategy, communication, grit. It's all going to be a part of that lower body capacity, upper body capacity. So that's going to be, in my opinion, that's going to be like the staple event, and I'm glad that we ended that way. It's also going to be the longest one, adam 12 minute cap. Do you think this can be finished?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
47:30
If you were asking me, I'd say no way. But I've seen people work out and I've seen people get into that dark zone, especially at the end of a day, and you know if you're fighting for a podium spot and you know you need to, I think this can be done.
David SyvertsenHost
47:45
Yeah, it won't be done. Often I would not be surprised to see no teams finish this, but I'm going to be cheering for at least one team to finish. And if you are going, if you do plan on finishing this, you and your partner, you better be sprinting your ass off from the start and you better go everything with those 60s and 90s. I'm broken, it's. You almost have to.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
48:08
Yeah, maybe one or two transitions on the wall while handstand holds and you got to be smart on the wall walks yeah, yeah, you know, because you don't want to overtax yourself or anything like that, you don't want to be coming down from a wall walk say, give me 10 seconds, I'll do another one, even the order.
David SyvertsenHost
48:22
Who does what first is going to matter. Yep, it's going to be a really fun workout to watch and watch you guys plan for. So that wraps up the workouts, guys. Oh you know what Sorry, I should touch on this In the scale division, you're going to be doing bear crawls instead of the wall walks. The lunges and the wall balls will be the same, though. Instead of holding a handstand for the scale division, you're going to be holding the top of the push-up, which is going to be a very similar stimulus if not identical.
48:52
I think bear crawls almost beat you up worse than wall walks sometimes.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
48:53
Definitely jacks up the heart. So there's no rest there and you want to keep moving.
David SyvertsenHost
48:55
So yeah, I think that's going to be fun too, Very similar stimulus, if not the same exact one. So that wraps up the workouts for the bison brawl and hopefully that kind of opens up the door in terms of like, all right, how do we go about these? They're not just cool, fun workouts. There's a lot of thought that goes into them and Adam did a really good job there. But just to wrap it up, what to expect from us moving forward? We still have a few like loose ends to kind of tie up and firm up and we have time, but it's going to definitely be a priority. You know, the communication factor is something that I just want to put out there.
49:30
Most of our communication for now will be sent out through the CrossFit Bison Instagram, Whether they're announcements, new workouts, sign-up, registration reminders. As it starts to fill up, we will tell you how many spots are left. We're going to highlight some of the gyms. Union City CrossFit Union City is one of them. Right now, they're leading the way with the amount of registrants from one gym. They're leading the way with the amount of registrants from one gym. But once we get closer to the event I would say in September we'll have our email list and that's when you guys will probably expect a weekly email from us with reminders, parking information, warm-up information, vendors, sponsors, all that kind of stuff. And then, once we get the number out of how many teams we have, we will release the prize pool and there will be cash prizes, definitely for the RX and Masters.
50:17
We're not sure about scaled yet. We're still working on that. From that communications perspective, Ramson, any thoughts on there? Again, trying to use your experience as an athlete and spectator in terms of like, all right, this isn't good enough, this was great. What do you think we should be holding ourselves to? Standard-wise with communication?
Adam RamsdenCo-host
50:34
Yeah, I think the more communication, the better. You always have questions, especially if you're coming to a gym you've never been to, about where do I park? Where are the vendors going to be? Is there food or coffee close? There needs to be communication about that to make the experience for the athlete Great, the spectator Great. Take all that into account.
David SyvertsenHost
50:57
Scoring. We're using Conquest Sweatworks. They are a really good system. They've been around forever. We've, we've. That's where our registration is also going through. So if and when you guys sign up, that's the site that you're taken to. The link is in that CrossFit Bison bio and I'm going to be sending out a bunch of links to gyms in the surrounding area to make it easy for you guys to sign up. But that is where the scoring platform will come from. We have some scoring updates in terms of how we're scoring some of the events coming in the next couple months.
51:25
Standard video we will likely use NB Productions. I haven't talked to Nick yet, but we will put out a very comprehensive, detailed standard video because I'm going to tie in the Zoom call to this as well. The one thing I could see us running into problem-wise, logistically, schedule-wise, is going over. These movements will take a really long time Correct and we like having this many movements. I think I counted there's like 13 or 14 movements in the actual competition, which is awesome. But if we go over every one of those details, you know how people are with questions and everything they might take an hour, yep.
52:03
So we're going to put together a really good standard video. We'll make sure that we get that out to you. But I'm even thinking about maybe us putting together a Zoom call the night before the competition to really get as many questions answered at that point as possible. I've seen legends done this before. You can ask a question in comments and we'll have someone monitoring that and we'll get you know. Adam and I can answer them, trading off one by one, so that we can make that check-in pre-comp meeting at the start of the competition smoother, quicker, easier. Sometimes. Those are my least favorite part of the competition 100% yeah.
52:39
Because it's and I don't want to say dumb questions. I mean, a lot of us have little anxiety things Like I remember I just competed at 908, barbells and Beers and I was like I had a bad groin from the semifinals or quarterfinals, whatever it was back then and I was nervous about doing some of the lunges, and that's when I found out that we didn't have to alternate legs. I was like, oh, thank God, step ups as well. So those meetings are really important, but they do tend to drag on and I think if we can get some of these questions about standards and flow answered prior to that morning, it would be a big deal.
Adam RamsdenCo-host
53:14
Yeah, and it's not just silly questions. There are things that we haven't thought about Absolutely. And we try to think about everything logistics, flow, layout of the gym but some things are just overlooked. And it doesn't matter how many people you have looking at it, mistakes can be made or things that you just didn't think about, that somebody you know might be important to somebody. So we do want to get those questions answered pre-comp as much as possible. I think it would be great.
David SyvertsenHost
53:41
Great Well, thanks you guys for tuning in. That was Bison Brawl, episode number two. We'll have at least two more. I would say, expect our next one to be sometime August or September, probably September, as we really that's when we're going to really have a good idea how many teams are signed up, what the schedule is going to look like and you know a lot's going to happen between now and then that things might come up and we'll kind of share that with you, Um, when, when that time is appropriate. So, thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time. Yep, Thank you everybody for taking the time out of your day to listen to the Herd Fit Podcast. Be on the lookout for next week's episode.
